Bell Digest vol08p10-2.txt

Contemporary messages : [ by volume ] [ by digest ] [ by Topic ] [ Supplements ] [ List all ]
Other mail archives: !!!!!!> Visit the Search Engine of Lhankor Mhy <!!!!!!

To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM Subject: RuneQuest Digest Volume 8, no 10, part 1 of 2 Comments: Revision @(#)v8n10.2 1.2 93/04/23 Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily Digest) Precedence: junk Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Contents: High&Low, A&E, Yelorna, Trivia Glo/non-Glo,KoS,Rumours,A&E,FTP Running hard to catch up... Re: Lots of Fri, 12 Feb Stuff. Re: GodTime, mythology, KoS White Wall Re: Argrath = Orlanth Elmal Cult Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 17 Mar 1993 Editorial: Here is a summary of submissions sent to the RuneQuest Daily on the theme of King of Sartar and the in-consistency of Glorantha. Here's part two, the last. -- Henk Langeveld, Maintainer/Editor of the RuneQuest Digest and RuneQuest Daily Submissions for the Daily to: for the Digest: Subscriptions and questions: Me: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM -------------------- From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Entropy needs no maintenance) Subject: High&Low, A&E, Yelorna, Trivia Message-ID: <01GUQBWPM12A00074T@UG.EDS.COM> Date: 14 Feb 93 16:22:33 GMT > Clay's posting got me thinking about styles of play and wondering on what > level of power most RQ-Gloranthan campaigns are running. How powerful in > terms of the setting are the PCs in your campaign? Are they major figures > in world history e.g. kings, princes, high priests, powerful sorcerors, > mighty warriors; or are they minor figures e.g. common thieves, > mercenaries, merchant-adventurers, apprentice sorcerors, initiates or > priests? Are they the mere footsoldiers in the Hero Wars or are they leading > the armies? My own personal experience is that the climb from starting character to RuneLevel is sufficiently long that the PCs have tended to stay in the shadows of the establishment figures (who are either where they are by right of birth, or are RuneLords or RunePriests of long standing - if not well on the way to Hero status. This is of course conditioned by tending to play for 3-4 hours once a week, and changing campaigns(systems, backgrounds, the lot) about every 18mo-2years in which starting characters have become only moderately skilled (~75%, with the odd point of rune magic around) by the time the impulse for change comes around. And even at that stage PCs are well aware of how dangerous even being slightly outnumbered by trollkin can be. Player discomfort ensues because they'd rather cut through hordes of vermin as they deserve to be, and get to a point where they can join the movers & shakers, rather than the audience. > And to add some contention: which style of play do you think is superior > and why is it superior? That's a naughty question. De gustibus non disputandum est! Myself, I play for entertainment and escape from the daily grind, so playing the bit-parts doesn't appeal. Looking at the timelines in _KoS_ I was interested to note that the fall of the Red Moon occurs near the end of the 9th Wane, as the Lunar powers ought to be drawing to their height. (This contrasts with early material naming the 8th Wane as the HeroWars wane, by the middle of which social disintegration was well set in.) More evidence for the untrustrworthy nature of the material in _KoS_. -------------------- From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder) Subject: Glo/non-Glo,KoS,Rumours,A&E,FTP Message-ID: Date: 15 Feb 93 21:00:00 GMT Greg is wrong, Greg is right, Greg is actually a good boy for making sure it's intenally inconsistent. I remember the inteview he did with GamesMaster International and the comments in TOTRM that he wanted to end the obsessive need to follow the "one true way". Basically I think most events up to 1621 are roughly as we all know, beyond that (and before that if you want) you can do what you like. I suggest that Greg make the Lunar book disagree even further with KoS. Godlearner bit: I can see such ideas on a secular Godlearner basis but why? Why not have a real fantasy world? Obviously the gods are not unchangeable and reflect their worshippeers, but I'd rather believe in a true core factual reality to it all. Non-Glo: I repeat, most people I know play more non-Glo than Glo RQ. They like the game and do not like the restricted feel of Glorantha. Many do not want to have to gen up on Glo mythology, after all a Glo hack can scare most casual visitors to death quite soon. They like the game system and the feel. Some people half like Glorantha but half hate it and reconstruct a similar but different world of their own. I like the multiverse hopping of M Moorcock and I'd like to pop between tzunder world 1 and Glorantha. I could use GURPS and I did run some GURPS Glorantha, but I actually think RQ is a better system. Rumours: Let's create more rumours, shall we? 1: Hallgrim Ironfist, Storm Kahn of the Pol Joni has been possessed by a fear spirit and captured by the Dark Sea clan of Morokanth. They say he's been turned into a herdman. His colleague of some years, Darth Jophayn is rumoured to have been contacted by the Storm Bulls to help in a rescue atempt. 2: Belvani and Penta Goldbreath have become very friendly recently. A&E Thanks @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Tom Zunder. A man who pays his own system time, Argan Argar damn it! @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ -------------------- From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Entropy needs no maintenance) Subject: Running hard to catch up... Message-ID: <01GUQXSGNZ9U00070K@UG.EDS.COM> Date: 15 Feb 93 02:49:09 GMT ... The Ministry of Truth bulletin:- ============================== "The Yelmalio cult was imported intentionally by the rulers of Pavis in the year 875 to help against barbarian raiders" -- Cults of Prax (Invader gods) Sidestepping predestination =========================== Comparing and contrasting Glorantha and the "official history" thereof, with another privately created world of similar long standing, and stature as an "official campaign world" for a published RPG (though lacking the mythic quality), with its own imposed history leads me to propose two ways of handling the dilemma posed by wanting to do your own thing and at the same time following the official material through significant historical events with widespread repurcussions. (Out of deference to those displaying delicate sensibilities, I refrain from mentioning specifics or drawing explicit parallels.) 1) Accept it and stay close to the action - Make Argrath the NPC about whom the characters gathered; but in your world he might be little more than a figurehead when the time came for the overthrow of the Lunar yoke - convenient because of his ancestry as a token in the power game, and in whose name the actions of the characters might be remembered - and in whose name the characters might act after his safe installation on the throne. In fact, the need to keep Argrath safe until he can be kicked upstairs into the kingship provides a neat game-mechanical way to keep the PCs in the limelight : Argrath is too valuable to take troll-hunting (or whatever), stays at home, gathers skills & POW more slowly than his entourage - perhaps doesn't ever heroquest, lacking the level of abilities required. 2) The Hero Wars are someone else's problem (though they may trigger other troubles) How might we apply this tack to the Hero Wars? Well, we can interpret some of the material from _King of Sartar_ quite narrowly, as referring to local (Pelorian and/or Manirian at broadest extent) disruptions - if Dragon Pass could remain shunned for centuries after the Dragonkill, so a larger area, centred on Dragon Pass might be after the fall of the Lunar Empire. All the chroniclers named in _KoS_ might well be from a small, isolated (perhaps by magical? Lunar? "fallout"(*)) pocket of civilsation in these shunned lands, the Illiteracy merely a local breakdown. In this view of things, we follow the history of some other part of the world, to which the fall of some distant empire across the mountains is but a herald's rumour (**); and the passing of Argrath's entourage on his westfaring a significant episode - the characters interacting with this when their paths happen to require interaction with Lightbringer myth. There would be other mundane effects from the movement of peoples and armies in Dragon Pass that would affect the campaign area, but the focus might be any one of the other Hero Wars period events discussed in the Glorantha/Genertela box, and which would be regarded by the peoples of that area as the _real_ Hero Wars. = = = = = = (*) Lunar fallout - given the chaos taint of the Red moon, if great chunks of this material (and many smaller fragments) fell to Earth, the effects of the bombardment might well resemble that of saturation nuclear warfare, at least locally (to which the 1950s-SF style of mutant can be added, by virtue of chaotic emanations. (**) Spot the motivation for looking at other parts of the world than the distressingly uncivilised areas of Prax and Sartar, on which there has been altogether too much emphasis. -------------------- From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (alex) Subject: Re: Lots of Fri, 12 Feb Stuff. Message-ID: <9302162248.AA05289@carcass.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 16 Feb 93 22:48:00 GMT Clay L: > > "And," continued the player, "our heroes have no real chance to become true > > Gloranthan heroes and have their names hailed by future generations." Steve G: > So what's new - it's been open knowledge since 1978 that Argrath > Dragon(spear|tooth|friend) would free Sartar (probably around 1640ST, > according to the earliest references I have) - not Kathreda of the Three > Earths (my own favourite Gloranthan PC), or Thane Duntris of the Brenholme > clan (the notional leader of that PC group). How many lines in KoS does, say Jor-eel get? And her stats are approximately . There's clearly ample room in the future history storyline to accomodate pretty heavy-hitter Heroes without having to change things around, even if you stick to every single last printed self-contradictory word of the Official Line. Trouble is: how are you going to run characters like this under RQ{2,3,4}? Or under any other game sytem known to man? "Next year, under 'HeroQuest'..." ... > Rules: Could we have more chat and fewer rules? Bah, humbug. :-) Let's have more chat _and_ more rules, or at least discussion of the odd game mechanic here and there. Ticking "much more" to every box is perfectly valid in this case, up till the point that Henk's machine starts blowing a gasket or two, at least. But sign me up for the AD&D posting lynch mob. :-) Alex. -------------------- From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (alex) Subject: Re: GodTime, mythology, KoS Message-ID: <9302162317.AA05299@carcass.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 16 Feb 93 23:17:23 GMT Clay {God} L{earner}: :-) > Was there really a GodTime? Tricky. But if the Godtime wasn't, what was it? If you see what I mean. Prehistory? Just a lota myths? > Did Orlanth really kill the Yelm? From my reading of the mythology bit in KoS, the Orlanthi don't seem to believe the Lesser Darkness was entirely sun-free, or at least it's not stated as such. Just an irrelevant (and false?) observation. > Probably not...though perhaps for several years Glorantha fell into > near-synchronous orbit with another planet(oid) and the sun was eclipsed. Planetoids? Orbits?? Another round-earth krank, obviously. Reconcile Glorantha as a planet and the Elder Secrets stuff on the (substantially whacky) Gloranthan sky, and I'll give you a coconut (among other things :->). > "Everything Stafford says is wrong." > If it doesn't illuminate you, at the very least it will pacify your players. Tsk. "Ignorance and fear, fear and ignorance!" Oops, wrong Rolston project. ... This week's Mammoth RuneQuest Continuity Error: In episode 3 of the Troubled Waters scenario, anyone notice that Gautama actually _talks_ to the player characters? Whoops. And this from the man who follows his cult vows "excessively". (As the Light Keeper, he is only allowed to deal with other Light Priests, if we believe the cult writeup.) More honoured in the breach than in the observance? Or do I misparse the phrase "Non-Light Priests", which could be taken several ways? By the way, no specific credits are given for the scenario. Who do we blame? Greg, since Everything He Says Is Wrong? {\extrabroad :-)} Alex. -------------------- From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder) Subject: White Wall Message-ID: Date: 9 Mar 93 16:41:00 GMT {This flyer is in common circulation in Dragon Pass / Prax amongst Orlanthi after the events below. If you wish to use KoS then this is the event that precedes the eventual fall of Whitewall} Storm Bull destroys the Bat! Whitewall saved! Lunar Empire Quakes With Fear! May the Cold Wind Arise! At dusk evil forces of the Red Moon brought forth their most hideous chaos monster against the heroic city of Whitewall. As King Broyan laughed defiance at the Lunar forces the Moon itself was darkened as the hideous shape of the Bat was sighted. Brave men's hearts curdled, even Broyan himself stepped back in awe as the huge shadow fell over the ramparts of the city itself, it's Air Rune curved walls battered but unbroken. Then, as the Lunar armies themselves cowered with fear as the Bat began to fall from the sky towards the brave city, from the StormWalk Mountains came a bellow of rage. As the red miasma of chaotic light bathed the brave thanes of Whitewall, a huge SkyBull charged through the Sky from behind the city. Monstrous and proud it hit the Bat full square and as the astonished Pelorians fell back, a monstrous battle began between the hideous monster of evil and the huge and powerful Bull. Great was the battle and the heavens opened with terrible storms and winds, red clouds raining blood rolled over Heortland and across the lands the debris of the battle fell to Earth. As the Bat and Bull tumbled to the Earth in a violent crash, a regiment of Tarsh hoplites were crushed by the monstrous beasts. Storm Bulls riding Sky Bulls flew from Whitewall and attacked the Third Sylilan Regiment of Sun Spears, driving them back into the rear positions of the Lunar forces and slaying their commanding officer, Hulonix Marthiriia, scion of the MoonDaughter. As the Bat and Bull once again struggled to the air all could see that both were close to Death's Door, and as the Bat priests desperately healed their beast, gusts of Wind buoyed up the Bull. Then, as all below watched in mounting horror, the Huge Sky Bull began to paw the Air and charge the Bat. As it contacted the Bat opened it's hideous mouth, the two creatures exploded in a blast of red, silver and blue light which showered the ground below in blood, dust, and a wild collection of debris. The Bat is Dead! May the Cold Wind Blow! -------------------- From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (alex) Subject: Re: Argrath = Orlanth Message-ID: <9303132315.AA13977@barren.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 13 Mar 93 23:15:28 GMT > From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder) > Subject: Quick Punchy Note > 5: [...] Obviously from KoS a lot of hell breaks out in the Empire > proper, and I suspect it gets far more complicated than it once was. Again > I cite the absence of Arkat from the KoS. Who was it suggested that Argrath = Orlanth? Of course, Nick Brooke avered at Convulsion that Argrath = Arkat! Alex. -------------------- From: mabeyke@batman.b11.ingr.com (boris) Subject: Elmal Cult Message-ID: <199303161738.AA10240@batman.b11.ingr.com> Date: 16 Mar 93 17:38:28 GMT The Cult of Elmal Now maybe this was all beaten to death the month my system was down and I was on vacation, but maybe not. Anyway, this cult has fascinated me since I first heard of it, I'm not sure why. I guess for this reason, I've been very curious about how widespread it still is, as opposed to that of Yelmalio. Presented below are my conclusions on this, from reading KOS, and finally my thoughts on how the cult of Elmal differs from that of Yelmalio. All through the _Report On The Orlanthi_ in Jalk's Book, Elmal is shown to be one of the "specialized cults" of Orlanthi culture. Not in the mainstream, their members are looked upon as "eccentric, strange, exotic, or dangerous". But this classification includes *most* cults gamers are familiar with. Most Orlanthi initiate to Orlanth and/or Ernalda. Most of the rest initiate to one of their close associates, the "Household Deities" such as Minlister, Mahome, Eninta, Barntar, Esra, Voria, and Voriof. Only a fraction of the population, too few for anything less than a full tribe to populate a minor temple, initiate to the specialized cults. And the cults listed as such are: Issaries, Chalana Arroy, Lhankor Mhy, Eurmal, Urox (Storm Bull), Odayla, Yinkin, Humakt, and _Elmal_. (This report was written after the Yelmalio schism also. Referenced as an example of the "Crown Test" is Leika Ballista, who lived during the Hero Wars, much later than when Monrogh Lantern Heroquested to found the cult of Yelmalio during the reign of Tarkalor.) So even during the time of the Hero Wars, in Dragon Pass Elmal was an actively worshipped cult, something near the same size as Humakt or Storm Bull. It may have been (and probably was) smaller than average, having lost most of their initiates to the Yelmalio schism 50 years before. It may have few Priests or Runelords, but those left would most likely be very devout, sticking with the old traditions despite great political pressure to defect to the vigorous new cult. So, then, what would this cult be like? Well, it would likely be much like the cult of Yelmalio, with some small changes. One, Elmal's Runes would be Fire and Truth instead of Light and Truth, since Zorak Zoran never stole his fire powers from him. Thus the cult would have available the spirit magics of Firearrow, Fireblade, and Ignite, in addition to the spells listed for Yelmalio. As a Truth Rune cult, it would retain the use of Gifts and Geasa, though some of the specific geasa would change, as shown below. Also, some divine spells would be added, such as Summon and Command Salamander, Command Hawk, and (perhaps) Truespear. The associated cults would differ; Yelm would be dropped, and probably Aldrya and Yelorna, but Orlanth would be added, offering either Lightning or Thunderbolt (Orlanth armed Elmal, so one of the attack spells seems appropriate). Chalana Arroy would most likely also be added, offering Heal Body in place of Aldrya. Finally what are relations like between the two cults of Elmal and Yelmalio. Not too good, most likely. History shows on Earth that the most bitter religious persecution is from religions that agree on all but one minor, but to them critical, point. So Yelmalions and Elmali probably are much like Humakti and Yanafal Tarnils cultists to each other, bitter enemies who give each other no quarter. Geas Changes: 34-36 Never seek shelter from the storm would be changed (as Elmal *did* receive shelter from the Storm) to something like Always stand a double watch (to commemorate Elmal being left to guard Orlanth's home). 80-81 Never speak to or help non-Light worshippers in any way would be changed to Never flee or surrender to any Chaos creatures. 82-84 Never speak to or help Orlanth worshippers in any way would be changed to Never refuse a request for aid from Storm or Earth cultists. And I believe the rest can remain the same. Maybe change 85-86: Never allow an Elf to suffer needlessly; it may be only after Monrogh Lantern's HeroQuest that the cult had close ties to elves. So that should change to something similar with cats, perhaps, and 78-79: Never speak to or help Dwarfs in any way could become Never speak to to help Chaos in any way. -- Boris Mikey, aka |"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive Maurice Beyke | for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if mabeyke@ingr.com | you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." Intergraph doesn't want Nietzsche my opinions. -------------------- From: mabeyke@batman.b11.ingr.com (boris) Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 17 Mar 1993 Message-ID: <199303172132.AA12574@batman.b11.ingr.com> Date: 17 Mar 93 21:32:21 GMT > > The Cult of Elmal > [much deleted] > > Also, some divine spells would be added, such as Summon > and Command Salamander, Command Hawk, and (perhaps) Truespear. It may be gauche to correct my own post, but I noticed something after I sent this in yesterday. In KOS, Jalk's Book, it says the following regarding Elmal. The deity gave it's initiates blessings upon the earth, good barley crops, healthy horses, and winter protection. (King of Sartar, (c) 1992 Greg Stafford, page 196.) So, for divine spells, it should also (or maybe instead) have Bless Horse (perhaps from an association with Hippoi or Hyalor Horsebreaker), Earthwarm (as the Lodril spell), and possibly the Yelm spell Sunripen (perhaps only effective for barley). Bless Crops or such sounds more like an Ernalda spell, but it is the one She offers Yelmalio, so that may suit. -- Boris Mikey, aka |"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive Maurice Beyke | for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if mabeyke@ingr.com | you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire." Intergraph doesn't want Nietzsche my opinions.