To: RuneQuest-Digest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Subject: RuneQuest Digest Volume 9, no 4
Reply-To: RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Contents:
Columbus Mercator - Round the world...
Carpocrates the Orthodox,
Sage of Truth - Carry on, Columbus
Clement Longhair, grey sage - about light, and the
"Round Earth" folly
Editorial:
More snippets from the Daily. Enjoy...
--
Henk Langeveld, Maintainer/Editor of the RuneQuest Digest and RuneQuest Daily
Submissions for the Daily to:
for the Digest:
Subscriptions and questions:
Me: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Round the World
Message-ID: <01H2TPG1AQW6AC3D5Q@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 12 Sep 93 00:14:36 GMT
PAUL REILLY WRITES:
>2. Considering that Glorantha is flat, how far can someone see
> on the ocean?
> At last, a physics question! :-)= ( beard indicates Lhankor Mhy mode)
>Your question can perhaps best be answered by referring to the
>treatise "On the Properties of the Elements", by Clement Longhair of the
>Nochet Lhankor Mhy temple:
FROM THE NOCHET COLLECTANEA:
I Columbus Mercator shall not of course need to resort to rank insults to
prove my argument, unlike my unworthy colleague Clement Longhair,
whose beard (I am reliably informed) is held on with paste. I refer to
my notes in Vol. XXIX of the Nochet Collectanea:
"The shape of the earth *must* be spherical.For every one of its parts
has weight until it reaches the center, and thus when a smaller part
is pressed upon by a larger, it cannot surge around it, but each is
packed close to, and combines with, the other until the reach the center.
If particles are moving from all sides alike to one point, the center, the
resulting mass must be similar on all sides for an equal quantity is added
all round: the extremity must be at a constant distance from the
center.
Such a shape is a sphere... further proof is obtained from the evidence
of our senses: the world must have the shape its own shadow shows; for
its perfectly circular outline produces eclipses of the Red Moon."
I must therefore conclude that the true shape of the Earth Rune is
not in fact a square or cube, but a SPHERE!
In order to prove this I plan a great journey of circumnavigation around the
world. Once I find an agreeable captain, the boat shall set sail from Nochet
and travel east, only to appear at some indeterminate time in the west.
Many sailors fear that they would sail off the edge of the world, despite
my assurances. But when the ship undoubtedly appears again on the western
horizon, its mast will be seen first, not because light "bends" as Clement
Longhair would have it, but because the world is round, not flat!
_____--
MOB
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From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Carry On, Columbus
Message-ID: <930911120456_100270.337_BHB46-2@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 11 Sep 93 12:04:56 GMT
_________________________
Columbus Mercartor raves:
> In order to prove this I plan a great journey of circumnavigation
> around the world. Once I find an agreeable captain, the boat shall
> set sail from Nochet and travel east, only to appear at some indeter-
> minate time in the west. Many sailors fear that they would sail off
> the edge of the world, despite my assurances. But when the ship
> undoubtedly appears again on the western horizon, its mast will be
> seen first, not because light "bends" as Clement Longhair would have
> it, but because the world is round, not flat!
You are *mad*. Stark, staring mad. What will have happened, if your ill-
conceived expedition does indeed return as you expect, is this:
As your captain (hopefully accompanied by your good self) sails beyond the
Eastern Empire of Vithela, he will be caught up in the great encircling
current of Sramak's River and *swept* around the far North of the world
(where the River flows beyond Valind's Ice Palace) to reenter it along the
Banthe Current. Thus he will have sailed off the Eastern edge of the world,
around it widdershins to the North, and reentered from the Western edge. If
his crew have successfully fended off the offended Altinae, Hollri, and
other denizens of the Northern Edge of the Outer World, that is.
Alternatively, you could set your course along the Sky River, sailing up
through Heaven itself to descend by the far side of the Sky Dome. Though in
view of your heresies against True Light, I fear your course would be
rudely interrupted by Star Captains incensed at your blasphemous rantings.
Light clearly "bends", tending towards its heavenly home. Rays of Light are
akin to arrows or javelins. And the path of an arrow or javelin plainly
curves downwards -- down and not up because the arrow is of a gross
material substance and not of celestial light. An arrow enhanced by
Speedart tends more nearly to the horizontal -- that is, adopting a flat
path (I make this clarification because you, Columbus, would presumably
assume the horizontal path to be curved!) -- as it is charged with more
Light energies.
Even Dormal only sailed as far as Luathela. Your hypothetical captain would
undertake a voyage many times as lengthy, and for what reward? Your own
Academic renown? Your madness has taken you beyond the bounds of reason. I
weep for a fellow sage sunk so low, and cannot help wonder what Sin against
Knowledge brought the Brain Flayers to your cranium. Yet all the same, I
wish you luck in finding a captain mad enough to take you and your fervid
scribblings beyond the Eastern Edge of the World, never to return. With any
luck, you could be departed before the Matriarch's Guard unman you for
heresies against Our Broad-Bosomed Mother of the Four Corners.
-- Carpocrates the Orthodox, Sage of Truth
___________________
Interesting Spirits
I am rather taken by Greg Fried's "interesting spirits" which affect the
personality of their "binders", and by David Dunham's proposals for simple
Personality Trait rules to reflect this. Both seem to be Good Things,
tending towards a more animist view of Spirit Magic. Both also harmonize
with my opinion that the Spirit Magic casting chance should be based on a
relevant Personality Trait, rather than POW. If I ever write good rules for
these, I'll be sure to let you know.
____________________
David Dunham writes:
>> Tosti Runefriend ("He's got a big fetish"), the well-known Viz
>> character.
> Well-known? (I did add all the Dragon Pass people to my Big List of
> Personalities, but I don't know anything about most of 'em.)
Probably nobody does unless they make it up for themselves. I asked Greg
about the Dragon Pass counters a few years ago, and learned that little was
known about any of them. But that capering loon Tosti has always endeared
himself to me -- the most useless man in the Sartar Magical Union (I don't
count jumpin' Flash Jak and his nomad Pol-joni friends).
Almost as sad a case as Aristos the Philosopher ("I used to be famous, you
know..."), the entirely-forgotten Independent Master of Magic.
One of these years I'll write up my Brown Eagle Warlocks scenario - just as
soon as I work out what's in it...
====
Nick
====
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From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 11 Sep 1993, part 2
Message-ID: <9309120003.AA04232@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 12 Sep 93 00:03:43 GMT
About Light, Nick writes:
> The central idea of which (light striving upwards) ...
>Of course, casting Farsee to "energise" your
>vision would therefore increase line-of-sight, regardless of the "false
>horizon".
One of the ancient Greek theories of vision (Aristotle?) was that people
shot some kind of particles out of their eyes, which hit things and reported
back, rather like radar or Darksense. Farsee would then work just as
Nick describes above, 'energising' the vision particles...
- Paul
PS: I must act as translator for another note from Clement Longhair.
My esteemed (by the Lunatic fringe) colleague Columbus Mercator continues
to promulagate his "Round Earth" belief. I shall respond in three parts
to his arguments.
1. Our most ancient records describe Glorantha as a bubble of order,
randomly formed, in a sea of chaos. It is clear that in such a bubble,
the weightiest element (Primal Darkness) will descend to the bottom, the
Hell of Subere. Above this is are layer of Darkness attenuated by Earth
and Water (the Styx and suchlike) which make up the Underworld known to
shamans, Heroes, and necromancers. The spiritual shells of the dead,
weighty with sin, descend to the Underworld, ultimately to be devoured by
Subere, while the true soul, freed of this weight, ascends to the Sky World.
The mortal world is a flat layer at the exact middle of the bubble; this can
be seen by mere inspection of the visible Sky Dome, which is form a
hemisphere. The lighter elements of Air and Moon vie for the middle spaces
of the Upper World, while the Flame Eternal lights the Sky World beyond
the Dome. Innumerable sources attest to the truth of this picture, which
is also consonant with Reason. I shall append a list of these sources
below. [Translator's note: the list is too lengthy to translate.]
2. Mercator's description runs as follows:
"The shape of the earth *must* be spherical.For every one of its parts
has weight until it reaches the center, and thus when a smaller part
is pressed upon by a larger, it cannot surge around it, but each is
packed close to, and combines with, the other until the reach the center.
Note the logical flaw here, apparent even to a child: my colleague
presupposes the existence of a center, which draws everything to itself.
He posits that things fall in the direction of this center. But we can
perform a simple test: let two plumb lines, weighted with na-metal, be
carried some distance apart. If there is such a center then the lines will
both point in its direction, therefore converging. But wherever we carry
such lines, they remain parallel, pointing straight down. Thus we conclude
that things do NOT fall toward a center, but instead toward one Direction,
called 'Down', designated byt the Celestial Court (in their wisdom) as that
direction toward which the heavier elements should tend.
In any case, the center of the world is well known to be Magasta's Pool.
Does my colleague presume to tell us that things here in Genertela are
falling south, while those in Pamaltela fall north?
3. Should the world be a sphere as Columbus Mercator supposes, then would
not the greatest navigator of all time, Dormal the Sailor of our own beloved
Kethaela, have returned to report this `fact' to us? He has not, therefore
I believe that the cosmography attested to by all _reliable_ sources, which
tell of Sramak's River rather than some strange bending, is correct.
However, I do not oppose and in fact encourage the journey proposed
by my colleague.
[T. note:
>In order to prove this I plan a great journey of circumnavigation around the
>world. Once I find an agreeable captain, the boat shall set sail from Nochet
>and travel east, only to appear at some indeterminate time in the west.]
I feel that this journey would not only settle the argument but relieve
the world of the weight of one who speaks without the true light of
Reason to inspire his words.
- Clement Longhair
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