Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 18:01:28 +0100
To: RuneQuest-Digest@glorantha.holland.sun.com
From: RuneQuest-Request@glorantha.holland.sun.com
Subject: RuneQuest Digest Volume 10, no 1
Contents:
Joerg Baumgartner - The Dragon Pass Renaissance
Editorial:
Joerg's message was rather long, so we decided to put
it in a Digest. There's another article from Joerg
in the queue, describing the work he did on extending
the boardgame beyond the Dragon Pass area.
Joerg's submission consists of a main article and
seven sample ASCII maps. I intend to post the main
article with one of the maps as a single Digest issue.
For the remainder of the maps, there are several alternative:
1) Upload them to soda - not everybody can access it.
2) post them as separate files - not everybody would like that.
3) compress, and uuencode them - not everybody can decode them.
I will do (1) anyway, as won't hurt anyone.
I can do (2) or (3), while clearly marking every message
subject as 'Subject: Dragon Pass Map #1', followed by the
type of posting [Ascii text or compressed/zipped uuencoded]
so that people who have to pay their connect time don't
have to download it.
If you'd have trouble with method (2) or (3), please tell
me so...
Henk
--
Submissions for the Daily to:
for the Digest:
Subscriptions and questions:
Me: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
--------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Message-Id:
Subject: The Dragon Pass Renaissance
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 21:42:48 MEZ
David Cheng in X-RQ-ID: 2251
DRAGON PASS
* I think it would be very tough to beat the Lunar magicians
without the Wind Children & their Sylphs. I think the 3-player
scenario is just too tough on the Independents - they begin the
game flanked, and the Dragon's Eye is just too tough to defend
if the Sartarites want to take it. It's just plopped down
there in the middle of a plain, for heaven's sake... (But
there's a reason for this, which is more evident on the old
WBRM map - he said cryptically).
# There always is the conventional way - move close and beat 'em up. I
# always felt that the strength of the cavalry Sartarite MU is their high
# combat efficiency - first burn off the spirits as effectively as
# possible, then at it with swords.
* I have some radical ideas on how I would change the game.
I'll throw them out quickly here for discussion. They have not
been thought out much, and certainly not tested.
+ Victory = Cities just doesn't work for me. Furthest is
'just another Lunar city,' not Glamour by any standard, and
most good Sartarites distrust them dang 'city-folk' in Boldhome
anyway.
Victory points should come from killing heroes, troops, and
taking strategic objectives (like sacking the Temple of the
Reaching Moon).
# or dowsing the Flame of Sartar in Boldhome. I feel that the TotRM ought
# to be a fortress in mundane as well as spiritual sense. E.g. give units
# inside an infinite magic factor. Same goes for Old Wind, Dragon Eye, and
# Shakers' Temple.
+ Add an elf unit or two, to be allied by emissary, but
penalize their combat and magic factors if they leave the
Stinking Forest. Let them move thru the SF at 1MP per hex.
# Values: 2** - 4 - 3 (Plant Rune) - X
# The famed elf-bows at work. And make that any forest, plus let them
# ignore terrain modifiers due to forest on the other side.
+ Add a SF troll unit or two, to be allied by emissary. They
would not be as good as Cragspider's 6-6-6's, however.
# Values: 5 - 3 - 4 - X
# This would be a warband with a strong contingent of dark trolls, while a
# warband mostly consisting of trollkin would have
# 2* - 2 - 4 - X
# The Dagori Inkarth warbands in Troll Pak are affirmatively from a DP-like
# wargame, as a private divination yielded.
+ Add some chaos units that could ooze forth from Snakepipe
Hollow. The Lunars would probably have an easier time getting
them.
# Lots of interesting counters. The hands, individual giants, scorpion men,
# broos, ogres, gorp
# Also make up for it by giving the Snak Pipe Dancers SBs special
# chaos-stopping powers.
+ Add emissary counters. They would ignore ZOC, but would
still have to move onto the home of the neutral. Give them
names and bonuses: ie Redbird the Sage would be a Sartarite
emissary who gets +1 to ally Cragspider, and/or the Stinking
Forest Trolls.
# Neat idea. Counters similar to Keener Than, although a lot slower...
+ I'm thinking of deducting a movement point off most units.
I think the game 'moves' too fast.
# I don't think so. If you reduce movement rates, you'd have to prolong
# most scenarios by several turns. And a lot of tactical considerations
# goes into "How do I slow the enemy's advance withoout losing too much
# troops, until turns run out, or I get reinforcements". I'm not sure how
# these would work with reduced MP.
+ None of this silliness about flying units getting stuck by
ZOC. If you don't want the Stormwalkers smashing the mirrors
in the TotRM, garrison it properly! (You'll have plenty of
troops to do so - see below)
# Not totally, but reduce ZOC by one hex - i.e. only if moving through
# hexes with enemy units they would be stopped.
+ I've got dozens more in my notebook. One of these days I'll
dig them out and try to implement some of these ideas.
* The Big One *
I would totally change the Diplomacy Point game. It seems to
me that most of the peoples of the pass would rather fight the
Lunars. Especially the Tarsh Exiles! Who can explain to me
why the Lunars have the same chance to ally the Exiles as the
Satarites do!?! There's even a Tarshite counter that says
"Moon Haters!"
# Well, they even managed to ally the Alda-Chur Tarshite-speaking
# sartarites for a while (1611?). The Telmori ought to change into a
# neutral unit, too, since they often caused havoc in Sartar.
This is how I see the diplomatic game:
The Lunars and Sartarites still allocate Diplomacy Points
(DPs). Alliances are still handled the same way. However,
each neutral has a pre-determined DP modifier. For example,
the Tarsh Exiles modifier might be +30 Sartar. Sartar starts
the game with 30 DPs already applied to the Exiles, in essence.
# A bit high, but the general idea appeals to me. But rather make it -30
# points for the Lunars; the Exiles share hate for the Lunars with the
# Sartarites, not love for each other.
The Lunars would _not_ be bidding to gain allies in most cases.
Instead, they would bid to keep allies from the Sartarites.
Sartar will inevitably get the Exiles, but if the Lunars dump
loads of DPs to Tarsh, they can delay the alliance. The Lunar
diplomatic game becomes one of "which allies can I afford to
let Argrath have early, and which ones must I really try to
delay/prevent?..."
# Not the case for the Grazelanders and Ethilrist, and the Dragonewts are a
# neutral force, too. Maybe let the Dragonewts hire out as mercenaries as
# well as in an all-out alliance, for a "single use" mission (keep 'em
# until they die, they don't mind, and you can rehire them).
To balance, the Lunars get huge unit replacement pools, and
even more exotic stuff, like Moon Boats, a Yara Aranis counter,
etc.
# Yeah, that's more like it. All subjected to random factors, as the Empire
# is chaotic.
Sorry to bore 85% of the readership with this, but this is a
topic close to my heart. As I've said before, I always like to
think of how micro issues will affect the macro picture. I
think the RQ <=> Dragon Pass relationship is an especially good
one.
# How did you come up with that number? Time for a Dailies-questionnaire?
---------------------
Nick Brooke in X-RQ-ID: 2258
John Medway said:
> A trio of tenuously-related questions about WBRM & Dragon Pass:
> What range in sizes is there between counters?
I generally assume one infantry unit to be around 1000 men (support: Pavis
Lunar garrison) and one cavalry unit to be 500 strong. These assumptions
underlie what follows, and are indeed central to it.
# Greg stated somewhere that the Eaglebrown warlocks were about 600
# warriors and 40 or so priests (out of memory)
> What percentage of the total forces of the Lunars do the units in
> Dragon Pass represent?
A biggie. Hope you don't mind me going on a bit...
If we use the late Roman Empire as a model for the Lunars, troop strength
from the Heartlands ought to be around 1% of total population. A lot of
these will be the Sultanate/Satrapy militia; the rest can join the
Heartland Corps. Formerly barbarian Satrapies and Provinces can raise
perhaps 5-10%. Tribal barbarian peoples (like the Char-un and Hungry
Plateau Sables) will have in the region of 20% of their populace available
to fight -- in the event of a full mobilisation only! In the normal course
of events, a few "units" would serve with the Lunars under treaties; the
full strength would be held back until the homeland was threatened. I'm
deliberately leaving any unit associated with the Lunar College of Magic
out of what follows.
# Thanks for the numbers. Something to work upon for Kethaela...
The above tedious mechanical number-crunching speculation should give us
some kind of framework to work from (or argue about). It seems the
Heartland Corps on the board is nowhere near the full strength of the Lunar
army, and that a load of "counters" could be mustered from the various
barbarian provinces and allies. The fact that they aren't raises questions
about how safe it would be to do so... remember how Rome fell, anybody?
("Well, Caesar, we'll just ask our army of Germans to guard the frontier
with the Germans..."). Especially, I'd be surprised to see large numbers of
Carmanians, Char-Un or Sables committed outside of the West Reaches,
Erigia, or the Hungry Plateau. Those are their homelands; taking all the
troops away would leave them completely defenceless. Sartar is fortunate to
be fighting a war on its home ground, allowing the use of desperation
measures to maximise its available manpower.
# Plus receiving considerable help from Maniria, e.g. Goldgotti (FA).
In conversation with Greg, he's said that the countermix for Dragon Pass
greatly overemphasises the role of cavalry in the Lunar army. It has lost
several infantry counters from White Bear & Red Moon (the Beryl Phalanx,
Nest Thieves, Iceland Starclubs, and University Guards). Certainly, any
rational observer would expect to see more Phalanxes, and some Peltasts
(where did the Silver Shields spring from, eh?). I'd guess this is where
the bulk of the "unallocated" Heartland Corps and Sylilan troops should go.
I've probably left something important out above, and stress that my
assumptions (all stated, I hope) are open to all sorts of challenges.
######
Now with all these figures, let me contemplate the Building Wall battle:
The Holy Country would have mustered all of its standing army, plus the
local militia - i.e. Esrolites (lots), trollkin (swarms) - and mercenaries
from Wenelia and Sartar.
Shadow Plateau sports at least 40000 trolls and trollkin, which would make
up but a third of the Holy Country trolls. Since their culture can be
compared to Orlanthi WRT war customs, 10% of these (4000) would be regular
troops, one third elite uzko/uzdo troops (2 units a 500 trolls 6 - 6 - 6 -
X), the rest Argan Argar trollkin spearmen (4 units 3 - 2 - 3 - X), plus a
militia of hunters (2 units 5 - 4 - 4 - X) and little trained trollkin (6
units 2 - 1 - 3 - X), plus two units of shamanesses (3 - 6 - 6 - 6), one of
sorcerers (3 - _6_ - 5 - 6), and maybe some Dehori (X - 7 - 6 - 3) and
shadows (X - 4 - 6 - 1).
Other regular trolls would have more militia and trollkin units, maybe 3
regulars and 5 trollkin.
Kethaela has 500 000 inhabitants and is on the verge between barbarian and
civilized. If we estimate 8% of the populace as available military force,
and assigne 3 fifths of that to the battle, we get 24000 warriors, or
roughly 30 units of Sartarite quality. The magicians would be different,
though - it is stated that Argrath invented the Esprit de Corps, so the
magician units would be fewer, and different in organisation.
maybe ten 3 -3 - 3 - X footmen, five or so 2* - 2 - 4 - X archers, six 4 -
3 - 5 - X cavalry, four 4 - 3 - 3 - X cavalry, and some goodies.
One source for Heortlending magician units would be the Aeolian church's
magicians. They might command sylphs (like the Wind Children in DP), or
lightning as physical effects. The Storm Walkers from Old Wind Temple could
be used as well, and maybe some foot magicians similar to those of the
Sartarite MU. No magicians' cavalry yet, but maybe Aeolian knights with 6 -
5 - 5 - 0 like the Bullocks etc.
Caladraland would send its contingent of spearmen; with 10% of 450 000
inhabitants and maybe half of these present one would get 25 units,
including a few temple guards with fire powers. No cavalry to speak of.
God Forgot would send interesting troops, no doubt, especially magicians
with exotic abilities. Their 50000 inhabitants might provide 2 units of
Holar warriors (6 - 5 - 4 - 0) for this battle, and some mercenary units
from the Casino city guards etc: 4 - 3 - 3 - X (like Goldgotti), maybe one
Humakti unit (6 - 3 - 3 - X), or indebted Wolf Pirates.
>From the Rightarm Islands there might be 2 units of stalk walkers or marine
infantry, no big deal.
Wenelian mercenaries would be similar to the (Praxian, probably Pol Joni)
Barbarian Horde or Sartarite City Militia. Give them a hero, Greymane
_(4)_! - 10 - _6_ - X, and units equivalent to the Barbarian Horde plus
five units of foot militia. Make them susceptible to bribery or similar.
Most important would be the Esrolite battalia: 1.8 million inhabitants
would produce 1% standing army and another 3% low-skilled militia,
resulting in about 20 regular units and 60 militia units. Make them many,
make them ineffectiveexcept for the sheer fore of numbers: lots of 3 - 3 -
3 - X militia with axes and shields, even more 2 - 2 - 2 - X militia with
sickles and hoes, a few Babeester Gor units, and the several queendoms'
guard units. Several earth magician units similar to the Exile Old School
counter, and one at least with the exotic magical power to turn troops into
a wall, thereby sacrificing their agent (gnomes) as well.
The Nochet troops alone would be equal to the Wintertop Exiles, allowing
for greater sophistication, i.e. less percentage of fighting power. There
would be the same power of magicians.
The Pharaoh would be a hero at least, with the power to return from the
dead on 2 to 6 on d6. His magical powers would include the bridge from the
City of Wonders, which may place reinforcements at a few critical
positions, a dedicated bodyguard (Humakti with lottery swords? - remember,
it's luck and death!) of 5 units (of similar quality as the Red Emperors
Imperial Bodyguard) which may heroically escape if stacked with the
Pharaoh, superheroic abilities in defense, ... lacking inspiration right
now.
Other Holy Country allies might be dwarves from Gemborg, Aldryami from
Arstola, dinosaurs from Ryzel, Wolf Pirates and the Beast Men of Ironhoof.
The Lunars would have the entire Lunar battalia except the bat (?), the
Emperor and Beat-Pot, but plus the Grazeland pony-breeders, the Exiles
minus the Earth Shakers (representing the Tarshite Sartarite mercenaries),
the dragonewts of cities 2, 3, 4 and 5 and Sir Ethilrist's Black Horse
Troop. They'd command all of Dragon Pass' dinosaurs, the Sartarite Sun
Domers, the Tusk Riders and lots of Peltasts missing in the Dragon Pass
game.
The Lunar leader could be Fazzur Wideread, not featured in the Dragon Pass
battles because he was retired by that time. His values would be those of
Ethilrist. Else Euglyptus the Fat would be in command of Sartar, and
probably of this mission as well. KoS has no information at all about this
incident, but since we know that Fazzur was punished for a previous
failure, this might have been it.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de