> My quibble is with NG section 7.4.3: "Any stacks that magicians' > spirits or agents were committed to attack must be attacked by them > and at least one adjacent unit." > > This sounds to me like ranged spirit and physical magic is not > allowed without support from close-combat units, i.e. you need a > "spotter" to bring in the spiritual "artillery."
Dragon Pass 7.4.3: "...magicians' spirits and agents can take part in the attack, but they cannot be the only attacking units."
If they are not the only attacking units, that implies that there MUST be ground troops attacking as well, yes? In other words, _Dragon Pass_ does not allow attacks by spirit or physical magic without support from close-combat units. Maybe that should be changed, but that is how I read the rules now. Nowhere does it allow agents to be used without at least one attacking melee or Chaos magic unit as well.
> I'm guessing the intent was to leave the Dragon Pass rule untouched > (NG 7.3.3 seems to indicate that) but emphasize that inactive units > next to active units need to be attacked, and not just by magic, but > it can be read differently.
How is this interpretation different from the actual rules? I don't see where the conflict is -- you agree that DP requires that magic be supported by ground troops, then say it doesn't. I don't understand the discrepency here.
Stephen,
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I don't believe that DP requires magic to be supported by ground troops.
To quote the full the sentence in DP 7.4.3: "Every inactive unit that was adjacent to an active unit must be attacked by at least one of those adjacent active units; magicians' spirits and agents can take part in the attack, but they cannot be the only attacking units."
Since the part about "can take part in the attack, but they cannot be the only attacking units" is a sub-clause of the first part of the sentence, which deals with which enemy units must be attacked in ground combat, I've never interpreted it as a prohibition on magical attacks on enemy units that are not adjacent to friendly units. It didn't occur to me that it wasn't the consensus.
If the intent of the NG rules truly is to prohibit attacks against non-contacted enemies, then the part about "Any stacks that the magicians' spirits or agents were committed to attack must be attacked by them and at least one adjacent unit" should perhaps be copied to 7.3.3, "Which stacks can be attacked."
Anyway, this is getting a bit complicated. If there is a new edition of the rules in the offing I would be grateful if these sections could be looked at. Some examples in the rules, as Paul mentioned, would go a long way towards clearing this up, probably.
But I can't keep myself from mentioning another thing I'm uncomfortable about in the NG rules: Physical Magic. It looks like Elemental Demons placed by a Great Spirit on an enemy stack can attack twice in a round - once in the physical magic sub-phase, and then again in the Rally Phase (if there are enemy units still in the hex).
This seems a little awkward, and makes the already powerful Great Spirits even greater. It could perhaps be simplified by allowing the Great Spirits to place their demons anywhere within their RF, just NOT on top of inactive units, then have them conduct combat as if they were regular units or disembodied spirits.
Also, do defenders get an opportunity to fight back in the physical phase? It does say "normal combat" is conducted, but I'm not sure if that just refers to the demon attacking.
In any case, I guess this is something that would be looked in making any combined rules book, since it would face having to distinguish between DP-style physical magic and the NG variant.
Peter
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
<P>> My quibble is with NG section 7.4.3: "Any stacks that magicians' <BR>> spirits or agents were committed to attack must be attacked by them <BR>> and at least one adjacent unit." <BR>> <BR>> This sounds to me like ranged spirit and physical magic is not <BR>> allowed without support from close-combat units, i.e. you need a <BR>> "spotter" to bring in the spiritual "artillery." <BR><BR>Dragon Pass 7.4.3: "...magicians' spirits and agents can take part in the<BR>attack, but they cannot be the only attacking units."<BR><BR>If they are not the only attacking units, that implies that there MUST be<BR>ground troops attacking as well, yes? In other words, _Dragon Pass_ does<BR>not allow attacks by spirit or physical magic without support from<BR>close-combat units. Maybe that should be changed, but that is how I read<BR>the rules now. Nowhere does it allow agents to be used without at least<BR>one attacking melee or Chaos magic unit as well.<BR><BR>> I'm guessing
the intent was to leave the Dragon Pass rule untouched <BR>> (NG 7.3.3 seems to indicate that) but emphasize that inactive units <BR>> next to active units need to be attacked, and not just by magic, but <BR>> it can be read differently.<BR><BR>How is this interpretation different from the actual rules? I don't see<BR>where the conflict is -- you agree that DP requires that magic be<BR>supported by ground troops, then say it doesn't. I don't understand the<BR>discrepency here.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>Stephen,</P>
<P>Sorry, I wasn't clear. I don't believe that DP requires magic to be supported by ground troops. </P>
<P>To quote the full the sentence in DP 7.4.3: "Every inactive unit that was adjacent to an active unit must be attacked by at least one of those adjacent active units; magicians' spirits and agents can take part in the attack, but they cannot be the only attacking units."</P>
<P>Since the part about "can take part in the attack, but they cannot be the only attacking units" is a sub-clause of the first part of the sentence, which deals with which enemy units must be attacked in ground combat, I've never interpreted it as a prohibition on magical attacks on enemy units that are not adjacent to friendly units. It didn't occur to me that it wasn't the consensus.</P>
<P>If the intent of the NG rules truly is to prohibit attacks against non-contacted enemies, then the part about "Any stacks that the magicians' spirits or agents were committed to attack must be attacked by them and at least one adjacent unit" should perhaps be copied to 7.3.3, "Which stacks can be attacked."</P>
<P>Anyway, this is getting a bit complicated. If there is a new edition of the rules in the offing I would be grateful if these sections could be looked at. Some examples in the rules, as Paul mentioned, would go a long way towards clearing this up, probably.</P>
<P>But I can't keep myself from mentioning another thing I'm uncomfortable about in the NG rules: Physical Magic. It looks like Elemental Demons placed by a Great Spirit on an enemy stack can attack twice in a round - once in the physical magic sub-phase, and then again in the Rally Phase (if there are enemy units still in the hex). </P>
<P>This seems a little awkward, and makes the already powerful Great Spirits even greater. It could perhaps be simplified by allowing the Great Spirits to place their demons anywhere within their RF, just NOT on top of inactive units, then have them conduct combat as if they were regular units or disembodied spirits. </P>
<P>Also, do defenders get an opportunity to fight back in the physical phase? It does say "normal combat" is conducted, but I'm not sure if that just refers to the demon attacking.</P>
<P>In any case, I guess this is something that would be looked in making any combined rules book, since it would face having to distinguish between DP-style physical magic and the NG variant.</P>
<P>Peter</P><p><hr SIZE=1>
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