Me:
>>I think Lankoring is more like the Pagan Shore deity Midir
>>(the God of Lawyers); his worshippers are like the
>>Breitheamn, who arbitrate disputes based on their
>>knowledge of Irish Law. I agree with David that Lankoring
>>is the God of Lawspeaking, but I don't think he's the god of
>>ALL knowledge the way the Manarian Lankor Mhy is/tries to
>>be. I think Lankoring's knowledge is focused solely on the
>>Truth as it relates to the Law and has little to do with
>>knowing about history, geography, or the "natural" world
>>(minerals, plants, etc...) as areas of study. In the East Wilds
>>Lankoring is the Lawspeaker, the Lord of Wisdom, the
>>Arbiter.
David:
>Right, that's what I believe. ... Although I believe that
>Lankoring priests... would frequently learn more about the
>natural world in order to better interpret some oracles.
and (later):
>I think Lankoring is a far better deity for figuring geases.
What? Lankoring combines both the prophecy role of the fili and the adjudicating role of the breitheamh?
"Why do you have to disembowel a bird to decide this case? Aidan admits he stole my best milk cow!"
"Aargh! Quit speaking in rhyming riddles and just tell me how much I owe Ognar for his damned pigs!"
"What do you mean I owe Dangus eineach because I saw a stag heading north right before he killed my cousin?"
I know I'm being facetious here, but I just don't see it. What does foretelling fate (and then setting a prohibition to avoid that fate) or interpreting oracles have to do with arbitrating legal disputes? It makes sense for Lhankor Mhy, the God of (All) Knowledge, to provide Divination. It doesn't make sense for Lankoring, the God of Lawspeakers, to provide Divination and Divine Geas. (I could now ask "So, who does provide these spells in the East Wilds?" but as we all know I believe this is Eurmal, I won't.) ;-)
David (regarding Eurmal):
>East Ralios is Orlanthi, and I don't think there's a "good" role
>for him.
And (earlier):
>And why anyone would ask the Liar for a divination is beyond
>me.
Let me start by pointing out that I believe the Orlanthi are also like the Celts in that their culture is spread over a large geographic area and their beliefs and customs vary from place to place. The VAST majority of info we have on the Orlanthi is specific to the Sartar and Heortland Orlanthi. I believe that this info gives little sense of the great diversity of religious beliefs and customs of the Orlanthi people across Glorantha. This why I am thrilled with stuff like Harald Smith's Imther, and your East Ralios. (And hey! Did anyone else catch how David Hall and Nick Brooke have HUMAKT as a Lightbringer in Otkorion? Wonderful!) It's also why I'm disappointed with the East Ralian Orlanth mythos as described so far.
So just because Eurmal is reviled and disliked in Heortland as an untrustworthy liar and drunken sot doesn't mean that ALL(100%) Orlanthi view him that way.
"(I)nterestingly, the Gaelic words for 'druid' and 'fool' or 'jester' are virtually the same." (Pagan Shore, p.44) "In demeanor, the druids appear variously stately, superb, and insane." (Pagan Shore, p.77) The fili are depicted as either "Mad," "Bitter," "Greedy," or "Mysterious." (Pagan Shore, p.79) Whether dispite this foolishness, insanity, and madness, or because of it, the Irish people went to the druids and fili for the laying of geases and for prophecy.
And since when is knowing your geas necessarily a good thing? I think it's a real mixed blessing, if not sometimes a curse! A geas doesn't tell you what you must do to live well, only what you must _not_ do or face bad luck, dishonor, and eventual death. Knowing your geas doesn't necessarily allow you to live any longer. It certainly doesn't allow you to live any better, or make you happier. And, geases sometimes have a way of putting people into terribly difficult situations. A man with the geas "never fight a wolf at a river-ford at night" ends up in a quite a quandry when the Telmori he has been chasing (and who has stolen his infant daughter) decides to make his stand at a river-ford! Or something like that. Also, if your enemies manage to guess your geas, they may be able to figure out a way to trick you into breaking it. Lastly, to paraphrase an Irish friend of mine, "A geas was basically good for only one thing; you knew a sure-fire way to commit suicide!"
Now, doesn't that sort of thing sound right up Eurmal's alley?
David:
>If you want a "good" role for Eurmal, the bard described in
>Pagan Shore is better than fili: "A poet and musician with the
>special function of praising good nobles and lampooning bad
>ones." Perhaps this is why Orlanthi chieftains keep a resident
>Eurmali -- they receive poetic praise.
The Pagan Shore bard "constitutes a weaker, Christianized version of the fili." (Pagan Shore, p. 6) If I didn't make it clear before, I think the East Wilds Eurmal fills both functions; prophet and praiser, seer and satyrist. As I said before, Eurmal can praise or lampoon, making or breaking a man with his words. With his words he can affect his listeners, creating or dispelling emotions. He is beyond the Law; laws do not bind him or apply to him. He is a mysterious and powerful force of change, to be both feared and respected. And for most people, like with so many mysterious and powerful things, that probably means he is more feared than respected.
>According to the official Trickster writeup in Questlines, ...
Although I have not yet seen Questlines (my copy is still in Oz with Pam Carlson, as far as I know), I'm willing to bet the Trickster write-up has probably not been significantly changed from the approx. 10 years old version I have. If it has not been significantly changed then, while I understand it's usefulness to GM's, I must denounce it as the rankest of reductionist God Learner documents! It combines such diverse gods as Bolongo, Catsup Slob, Eurmal, Hare, Invisible Jayoran, Rankenveg, and Raven into one "meta-level" archetypal Trickster. If this is presently a valid approach to our understanding of Gloranthan deities, why not just combine such goddesses as Aldrya, Aleshmara, Asrelia, Dendara, Eiritha, Ernalda, Faranar, Voria, and Yanmorla into the archetypal Goddess? Or combine such gods as Humakt, Shargash, Storm Bull, Vangono, Yanafal Tarnils, and Zorak Zoran to make the archetypal Warrior? (Of course, this is where the GL's were going, and look what happened to them!)
My point about the archetypal Trickster write-up is that it gives NO cultural context for understanding the Trickster in ANY of his/her/its incarnations. It was that document which led to my trying to outline and describe (and maybe understand a little) the major Trickster figure in each Gloranthan culture. Thus, my Raven (Prax) write-up, my Raven (Pent) write-up, my Hare (Pent) write-up, my Eurmal (Sartar) write-up, etc. [Most of these are works in progress, but I know I've posted at least the two Raven cults to this Digest.] It's also why I'm struggling to describe Eurmal in the East Wilds.
>...the Trickster aspects found in Ralios are Dismembered
>(since East Ralios is now a Theyalan culture); Firebringer;
>Fool; Fright; Imp; Shapechanger (a shrine in Naskorion has
>Become Dirty Shirt); Thief.
Please remember that "Ralios" includes Safelster, Vesmonstran, etc... Not all of those aspects are found in all areas of Ralios. I also believe that the "found in all Theyalan lands" description is an Orlanthi "all," meaning that not every Theyalan area has the Comic Fool, Dismembered, and Shapeshifter aspects of Trickster.
My whole point in this is that since (presumable) the East Wilds culture has elements which make it uniquely "East Wildish," what makes the East Wilds Eurmal unique? What's his role in the East Wilds culture, that he doesn't provide anywhere else? These are the questions that have been guiding my thinking. And they are why, when I ran across the Pagan Shore description of the fili, a little bell went off in my head. (Yeah, yeah, I know. I should see someone about that. But then, I'm already in therapy at least 12 hours a week right now, so... ) ;-)
Michael P. Carroll's article "The trickster as selfish-buffoon and culture hero," in _Ethos_ magazine (1984, v12, p. 105-131) has also helped me to understand this part of Trickster better. In that article he discusses how:
...the Amerind trickster is often the agent responsible for
creating the conditions that allow for the development of
human civilization. Thus, for instance, the trickster might
be the individual responsible for stealing fire and giving it
to human beings, for instructing human beings in useful
activities (like agriculture, boat-building, etc.), for
clearing the land of obstacles and monsters, and so on.
I think this is the sort of thing Greg was reaching for with the Firebringer aspect, but I think his vision was too influenced by Jung's focus on the Prometheus myth in his analysis of the Trickster. I think a more proper name of the aspect is Culture Hero. (Note however that this is NOT a Hero in the traditional sense. It is tied into all the other Trickster aspects, and is part of the paradox of Trickster, and this is recognized by those for whom he is a Culture Hero.) So while many may "agree that Trickster, in one form or another, stole fire from the Darkness," I think many credit him with doing other "good" things. Or at least other things which were required for the survival of the people. And what these "good" things are varies between Gloranthan races and cultures. For instance, I think the elves honor their Trickster (I'm not sure I know his name yet) as the Monster-Scarer; he frightened away Darkmother Troll (Kyger Litor) and Hatefather troll (Zorak Zoran) after the one time they utterly defeated the Protectors and were about to eat Aldrya. I think Bolongo eating all the red headed women of the Pamaltelan grasslands (currently part of the Murderer aspect description) falls into this category too, since it was "necessary." Also, even though the Praxians have a story about how Raven stole fire from the Sun, for them it is about the Thief aspect, not the Firebringer.
Anyway, I'm rambling. Sorry. To get back to Eurmal, I think the Culture Hero aspect varies among the Orlanthi cultures, depending upon what it is Eurmal is supposed to have done to help in the Lightbringer's Quest. Thus Eurmal is always a Lightbringer, but he is not always the Firebringer.
To better illustrate this, below is my version of one of the LBQ stories told in Sartar. It illustrates the so-far-only-official role of "Eurmal Firebringer" and provides the cultural context for the Hide Fire spell. It also describes how Eurmal breaks (or "breaks," or whatever) the Cosmic Compromise.
Then, for some reason, Eurmal began seeking to halt the
ruination he had helped to cause. Some claim that he began
trying to reduce the pain and suffering in the world despite
his success at destruction (or maybe because of it), and
that he voluntarily helped Orlanth. Others claim that
Eurmal only stopped seeking to destroy the world after
Orlanth caught him and extracted the Bondsman's Oath from
him, forcing him to help the world. Still others say that
Eurmal chose to restore disorder to order so that he could
enjoy destroying all of creation again after it was rebuilt.
And, some say Eurmal simply followed his nature and
changed.
Whatever the reason, Eurmal joined the Lightbringer's
Quest. But even while on the Lightbringer's Quest, he
remained the Trickster. He saved Sofal's children from
being killed, but did so by betraying an old friend. He
convinced Golod to allow the Lightbringer's safe passage
across the ocean, but did so by lying to him. He distracted
Sinjota at the gates of Hell so that the other Lightbringers
could slip by, but was eaten by her afterwards. When he did
decide to speak Truth he offended Subere and betrayed
Orlanth, resulting in Orlanth being thrown into the Pits of
Darkness. Eurmal found his way to the Halls of the Dead,
but arrived alone after he had abandoned the other
Lightbringers along the way. He found fire, which he knew
would light Orlanth's way and free him from the Pits, but
decided to steal it instead of asking for it. Hiding the
flame in his belly, he went back to set Orlanth free, but
then abandoned Orlanth again to sneak back to the Surface
World. While there he shared the secret of fire with others,
but was killed again when he tried to give it to the elves.
When he again met up with Orlanth in Hell, he failed even
himself by offering to renew his Bondsman's Oath.
To his own and everyone else's surprise, he kept to this
Oath for the rest of the Quest. He found the other five
Lightbringers and rested with them, and they found
themselves enjoying his company before the final ordeals
of the Quest. Despite all the temptation and opportunity for
tricks and jokes which present themselves in the Halls of
the Dead, he caused no trouble or disturbance. (This has led
some to say, "The only good Eurmali is a dead Eurmali.") He
did not insult the broken Gryphon who greeted them at the
entrance of the Halls of the Dead. He did not make fun of
Humakt when he was found dull, rusty, and broken amid the
dead. He did not attempt to steal from the dead. He did not
scoff when the pitiful creature Maggotleige claimed to be
the Bright Emperor. He spoke true words of wisdom and
encouragement to Orlanth during the contest to release the
Glory of the Sun. He even graciously accepted the gift
which was given to him by Yelm, and did not complain that
another received a finer gift nor secretly switch gifts with
another. (Of course he received the gift of fire, which he
had already stolen.) Eurmal was the first to recognize
Arachne Solara, and was the first to swear her Oath of
Compromise, and he was among those who joined with
Orlanth as he strode out into the Dawning. And it was then
that Eurmal returned to his true nature, and he broke the
Cosmic Compact by refusing to be bound by Time.
Of all the gods and goddesses since the Dawn, Eurmal is the
only one who has broken the Cosmic Compromise and been
active within Time. (Even Gbaji and the Red Goddess were
eventually bound by Time.) Eurmal can still consciously
alter the world as an individual entity, and he often turns
his attention to it without being called upon to do so.
Eurmal continues to manifest bodily on the Mundane Plane,
and actively intervenes in the realms of both mortals and
immortals in new and annoying ways. Despite this, or
maybe because of it, he and those who would follow him
have still achieved no great successes. (There are some
who say that Eurmal's place in the Cosmic Compromise is to
break the rules, and that he is still as bound by the
Compromise as any deity. They claim that for him to really
break the Compromise would require him to go against his
nature and act consistently, truthfully, responsibly, and
thoughtfully.)
***NOTE: Although you are certainly free to post disagreement to the above version of the LBQ, I will most probably decline to respond for the moment.
So here we see how during the LBQ Eurmal steals and then hides fire in order to bring it to Orlanth (and others), thus becoming "Eurmal Firebringer."
Now, although I haven't yet found a copy of the East Ralian LBQ, my belief is that what the East Ralios Eurmal did was to prophesy the geases of the Lightbringers. This led to them _not_ doing something (to _fail_ to do something), which (paradoxically) led to their success in the LBQ. Thus he is "Eurmal Geaslayer" or "Eurmal the Fili," or whatever.
Also, I don't think the East Ralian Eurmal ever swore the Bondsmans Oath. In fact, being beyond the Law, I don't think East Ralian Eurmali _can_ swear oaths! The culture recognizes that laws, even the law of their own word, can not bind them; such is the strange and dangerous power of Eurmal. So, why bother having them swear? The Eurmali are also beyond eineach. That's why you're free to get away with whatever you can against a Eurmali! (Mind you, I think one of the spells available to East Ralian Eurmali is Wordwound, so...)
Wordwound/1 Point/ Self, Temporal, Stackable, Reusable Allows the caster to cause bodily damage using verbal satire and/or insults. Each melee round the spell is in effect the caster can try to use his or her Insult skill. If the caster is unsuccessful, the target is unharmed that round. If the caster is successful, the target can try to make a resistance roll. If the resistance roll is successful, the target remains unharmed that round. If the target fails and the caster had a "normally" successful Insult, the target takes 1 point of general hit point damage per point of spell. If the resistance roll fails and the caster had a "critically" successful Insult, the target takes 1d3 points of general hit point damage per point of spell.
Insult (Uncommon Skill)
Communication skill, base 10%
This skill allows a person to successfully ridicule, jeer,
mock, taunt, lampoon, or otherwise verbally abuse and make
fun of somebody. The effect of a successful roll is to insult
the target (probably angering them, providing they understood
what was said) and make them a laughingstock to any listening
bystanders. A failure means that nobody is amused, and the
target is mad at the insulting person. A fumble means that
everybody is angry at the insulting person.
Well, I've rambled on long enough for now, and have undoubtedly brought a storm of controversy upon my head. (See? Trickster makes fools of us all, and brings nothing but misery! Beware! Beware!!) ;-)
It's a good thing I have absolutely nothing to do for the next few days except my normal family duties with my wife and kids, see my therapy clients, work on my thesis, study for classes, keep job searching, try not to catch another cold, and await the arrival of the RQDU audiotapes! ;-D
Peace,
Peter
End of Glorantha Digest V2 #359
WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html
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