Re: Carmanian Humakt from Loren Miller on 1997-01-24 (Glorantha Digest Vol 04)

From: Loren Miller <loren_at_wharton.upenn.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:25:36 +0000

Time for me to pop in.

Peter Metcalfe <P.Metcalfe_at_student.canterbury.ac.nz> writes:
> Why not? The Carmanians do get some of their gods from Fronela.

True. Many of the EthTelsen accompanied the anabasis eastward. Cloud Father was one. I'm not sure what we would call that deity in 3rd age terms, but I'm getting ideas. I believe that Humakt as introduced to Fronela by Talor was another.

> We know that there was a Ralian influence in Fronela since the
> Chaos Wars (from Talor's expedition into Ralios) and before if
> my story about Arkat's father is correct. So there's plenty
> of scope for a cult of Humakt in Carmania even if he is called
> something exotic like Humct.

I think Humct was a sorceror who attempted to defeat death by switching places with Humakt, but the ducks spotted his deception and that's why ducks are blessed of the Humakt cult. So... please no Carmanian Humct except among the (whisper) gloom worshippers of the lord of black abominations.

David Cake <davidc_at_cyllene.uwa.edu.au> writes:
> Its worth noting that Syranthir himself performs a 'severing of his kin'
> with an iron sword, which sounds sort of Humakti, and predates the founding
> of modern Carmania.

Sure does sound pretty darn Humakti doesn't it?

Now the reason that I am certain that the Carmanian Humakt is identical to the Dragon Pass Humakt is multiform:

Humakt came from the west. Ralios is the west, but Fronela is even farther west. The land of the dead is farther west yet, even farther than Brithos and the Vadeli lands. From a mythic/poetic POV Humakt HAS to have come from there, which means that other martial groups who came from the west such as.... hmmmm.... Syranthir and company, brought his worship with them.
What is the most important concept to the Carmanians? What is their obsession? TRUTH. They spend gobs of intellectual capital wrangling over Truth. They even have an elite college of the Magi, the best of the vizirs, who spend all their time deciding the currently True composition of the EthTelsen (the hundred good gods). Who is the wargod most closely associated with Truth? That'd be Humakt. Then the ideal hazars' (warrior caste) cult must be Humakt. Similarly, the ideal vizir's (scholar/wizard caste) cult must be Lhankor Mhy. And the ideal carmanos' (ruler caste) cult must be... uh... well... their leader cult got purged and all traces expunged in the blood kings' wars so we don't know what it was like anymore. But Yelm and Dayzatar are remarkably truth-obsessed, and Carmania did conquer Dara Happa a few times... so who knows?
How do westerners keep from aging? They follow arcane restrictions that don't make any logical sense, but make good magical sense. Now we already know that pre-godlearner westerners were able to worship many gods. One of their forms of worship must have been to restrict their behavior in various ways in return for receiving blessings from their god. Let's call these restrictions "Geases" since that's a word we already understand that means the same thing. Geases, unlike caste restrictions, can do more than retard aging: They can endow those who abide by them with the powers of the divinity being worshipped. Thus many or most of the cults of the hundred gods must have required geases from their worshippers. And who are the cults we know of who use geases? Humakt! Yelmalio, which comes from Dara Happa which was conquered and militarized by Carmania! Yanafal Tarnils, who obviously came from Carmania. Thanatar (actually from Atyar) who hated Lhankor Mhy, and there's not much evidence to show that Atyar is from Carmania, but the thought of blue-skinned headhunters emerging from the rivers and lakes in the dark of night is just too enjoyable to pass up. MGF requires it be true!

> If the Carmanians pronounce Humakt Hamakz or something, and have
> some Carmanian dualist hang up about him, and have a slightly
> different code of behaviour (they are probably even more opposed to
> ambushes, given the Carmanian attitude to Dart Competitions, for
> example), then that is cool with everyone.

This was one of my mental blocks when writing up my carmanian material. How would a dualistic cult work? Would it be some form of These things are Forbidden in some circumstances and Mandatory in others? For instance.

Never ambush during the summer, and ambush at least one enemy in the winter.

I'd love to see what other people have to think about this.

> But I have to say I would never describe Carmanos as 'similar' to
> Humakt. Carmanos is a deity of the Karmanoi, not the Hazzars. He is not a
> great grim death god, but a hero known for many things, including being a
> fertile founder of a dynasty.

Exactly! And we will never know what his cult was like, though I believe that Yolanela thinks she does.

Anyway, thanks to David and the others for their able defense of the currently existing Carmanian materials that Nick Brooke and Paul Reilly and I came up with and I organized and wrote down on my website.

Cheers,
Loren

+++++++++++++++++++++++23

Loren Miller <loren_at_wharton.upenn.edu> A priest, a rabbi, a Penn student, and an elephant walk into a bar. The bartender says, "what is this, some kind of joke?"