Poll Results and commentary

From: Paul Chapman <mercutio_at_btinternet.com>
Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 02:21:51 +0100


As many of you will know, I have been collecting comments over the past week or so as to the Digest Members' opinions on Objectivity/Subjectivity of gods and also their nationalities. There was a bonus question of guessing my nationality by something I'd just said, which a few people answered.

The results are now complete and follow. I got quite a few responses, which was very encouraging, thank you:-

  1. Obs/Sub:-

Well, this was very difficult to judge. Hearteningly, people did not usually lump down on one side or the other entirely, and I created a five point very innacurate scale to measure them by, using their comments to judge. Obviously, not all of the people fit exactly into one category, which was _why_ it was so hard to judge.

  1. The Gods of Glorantha are objectively true, most or all the myth is true, the gods are not created by their worshippers nor does their worshippers' change of beliefs change the gods. Includes all people who said "I'm for Obs" and nothing more.
  2. As above, but the gods can be worshipped in facets which are subjective, or some similarly subjective slant to the entirely objective opinion. Gods are objective but the masks men worship are not. Also includes self-proclaimed HVOs (Hidden Variable Objectivists), who have a slightly subjective slant as I see it.
  3. Undecided or a position that does not fit into the other categories but rather between them.
  4. As the subjective position below, with a small degree of objective nature. "Orlanth and West King Wind are different entities, but neither of them can be changed into something radically different like chaos by their worshippers' beliefs".
  5. Fully subjective. Gods are manipulated and/or created purely from the beliefs of their worshippers, any change in the style of worship or belief will change the god, since he/she is defined by the worshippers' beliefs.

Many people will disagree with how I have discibed the positions above... but that was reflected, I assure you, in the answers people gave. Several people described very similar viewpoints as being differently objective or subjective... this happened between categories 2 and 4. They are very separate in my mind, anyone who wishes to argue this out with me is invited to do so via private e-mail ONLY please so that this debate can be put to rest on the digest!

Anyway, the Raw Data:-
Total replies, 37 (this includes myself, see below)

1: 8 votes
2: 10 votes
3: 8 votes
4: 5 votes
5: 6 votes

So, there's a general slant towards Objectivism, particularly with a slightly subjective slant, which does not surprise me both since that's my position and since it's very much the tone of the earlier publsihed material.

My position: The gods are anthropomorphic (sp?) representations of near-infinite forces (wind, fertility, love, death, etc) that achieved self-awareness shortly after the creation of Glorantha from chaos. They _are_ objective, self-aware beings and nearly all the myths are correct, even the conflicting ones. Mortals cannot understand the divine forces that are the "higher" nature of the gods so they worship what they can understand, the lower "devolved" bit that we call gods, this perpetuates them. The "lower" gods are _partially _ subject to the beliefs of their worshippers but _cannot_ be torn away from the nature of their higher self.

        To say that (frex) West King Wind and Orlanth are the same being is correct, for they are part of the same godhead. They are also different beings, in that they are worshipped differently and moulded differently by belief, but a HeroQuester would find that their Hero Paths were inextricably linked... they are slightly different facets of the same "higher" force.

        I rate myself a position 2. Am I an HVO? Perhaps, but the Hidden Variables are to do with doorways of perception in that case. Anyone wishing to discuss any position on this is again invited to do so via provate e-mail. FWIW, I personally believe the same system works in the RW, it's just lower mana level than Glorantha. :-(

B) Nationality of Digest readers:-
45 replies (this includes myself and a few I know who didn't answer) Obviously, this is not statistically representative, but it was very interesting:-

USA (Various states): 14
UK: 12
Australia: 5
Sweden: 5
France: 2
Canada, New Zealand, Spain, Norway, South Africa, Germany, Belgium: 1 each

As three people out of about a dozen guessed, I am British, the big clue being that I spell "humour" with a "u"... special credit and the Bonus Prize goes to Phil Hibbs for working it out in this fashion (Phil, are you going to Convulsion 98? I was serious about the prize!). Other comments that arose from the bonus question: I'd love to know what a "Typically British position" is, from the person who guessed my nationality by that means; btinternet.com is British not American (stands for "British Telecom ISP", I'm probably changing soon anyway); my written "speaking style" is quite Americanised and quite different to the way I speak and I'm cosmopolitan/enlightened enough a Brit to be able to describe Britain as being part of Europe! :-)

It was a nice surprise to see so many brits on the digest! Get in contact with me if you like and we'll chat further... Trotsky I _will_ get back to you soon.

That's enough from this poll, I hope this is interesting for everybody. Time to sign off for now.

Paul, who hates stats really. :-)


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