Clay's Teshnos info and the general Teshnos thread is fascinating. Any chance that we can see some of these Teshnos Cults put into RQ2/3/4 cult format?
Onto the Red Goddess thread...
Peter as sez:
>>>For example, would there be a Red Goddess if there had been no God
>>>Learners? If there had been no Gbaji?
>>
>>Yes to both. She wouldn't have the same mythology as a result
>>but she would still exist. The God Learners and Gbaji are not
>>essential components of the Red Goddess just as much as the
>>French Revolution is not essential to the Russian Revolution.
>Your answer is non-sequitor. I think, at the very least, Gbaji *was*
>essential to the RG because/since Nysalor was essential to Gbaji. I'm
>not saying the RG is Gbaji, simply that Gbaji's existence is a
>prerequisite for the existence of the RG. I don't know if GLism is a
>pre-requisite for her existence. David C. expounded that he didn't
>think that GLism made many inroads into Peloria, thus its impact on the
>creation of the RG was nil.
>- ---
>Onegaishimasu.
>Clay Luther
>Clay_at_incite.com
IMO, one of the problems of trying to determine whether or not God
Learner
secrets were used in the creation of the Red Goddess is that what the
God
Learner secret was is very murky, at best, compared to what we as
Glorantha
enthusiasts know about, say, Illumination (which is also another can of
worms.)
The elements and techniques that went into the Red Goddess's
creation/re-birth
seems to have been drawn from sources all over Glorantha. The GL
connection
could have very well come from Irripi Ontor, who, while not a full blown
God
Learner (who could be, in these days?), could very well have known
something
about the God Learners and their techniques. From some previous
postings here
on the digest, I've seen it written that Irripi Ontor was not only a
priest of Lhankor
Mhy, but also was Yanafal Tarnil's court Vizier and a fairly powerful
practicioner
of Carmanian/Malkioni style sorcery. How did he do this and also
practice
Lightbringer worship? Illumination ;) ASFAIK, the only Gloranthan
element NOT
present within the Red Goddess is a Storm/Air element (which I could be
very well
wrong in, I haven't read Entekosiad), and Kralori or EWF Draconic
Mysticism
(which I could be dropping the ball on too.)
>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:24:59 +0100
>From: Michael Cule <mikec_at_room3b.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: RuneQuest Vision and Illumination
>Just a quick note on Joel's reply to an earlier post:
>>V.S. Greene:
>>> I believe "officiallly" the God Learners were not Illuminates.
>>> Unofficially, I would think that some of them would most certainly
>>> have learned about illumination and its advantages and acheived
it.....
>>
>> This turns out to be inaccurate. Illumination is a mystic/
>>philosphical mindset that is achieved by Deists. The GLs were
>>Malkionists; believers in the Invisible God. They thought that all
>>Deist's Gods were just demons and/or whopping big spirits. The GL/
>>Malkioni mindset is not one that produces Illumination. The GLs
>>used Runic Vision/Rune Sight/whatever they called it. Both Greg
>>and sandy have been quite specific about these not being the same
thing.
>I agree entirely that RQVision != Illumination but I don't know that
>I've ever heard it authoritatively said that they couldn't be
enjoyed(?)
>by one person at the same time or that a Deist mindset is required
>before Illumination.
>Remember that Arkat was raised as a Malkioni and also illuminated.
>I agree that Illumination has strange effects on Deist minds but
believe
>it could have equally strange effects on Malkioni.
>> (Sidebar: please remember that the powergamers all want
>>to be Illuminated so that they can ignore cult restrictions, break
>>geases, etc. To a Malkioni, this is all garbage in the first place.)
- - --
Michael Cule
IMO, Illumination is Psychic Liberation, which shows the successful
Illuminant
that barriers between philosophies (Law/Chaos, Monotheist/Deist,
Animist/Mystic,
whatever) are simply mental constructs that are self-created and have no
objective
bearing in Reality. This is one of the powerful cornerstones of the
Lunar Faith, and
is what makes it so inclusive... The Red Goddess includes within her the
entire healed
Cosmos, being the feminine aspect of the Creator (Yikes! have I become
Illumined?)
IMO, God Learner Illuminates may have existed, but Illumination would
not have been
part of main stream God Learner practice, because they may well have had
the
attitiude towards Chaos that most Malkioni have... That Chaos was an
inhernent abberation
of the Cosmos, a threat to life, and was dealt with at peril. I'm sure
the GL's knew
full well about the disastrous Gbaji war and the journeys of Arkat
(whom's
HeroQuest Journeys and techniques they certainly studied!) I'd say that
it's farily impossible
for the GL's NOT to have known of Illumination.
All Hail Orlanth, Lord of Storms, Shamer and Rescuer of Yelm!
Chris Bell
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