David mentioned semantic frustration with the distinction between a subcult and an associated cult in relation to Yanafal Tarnils and the Seven Mothers. I think what is causing the problem is not this semantic aspect but a lack of hard sources about the Lunar Religion in the Provinces.
To summarize, the foremost apparatus of the Lunar Way in the provinces is the Provincial Church. All provincials in the provinces belong to the Provincial Church (_if_ they are members of the Lunar Way). The Gods of this subcult are the Seven Mothers which provides an alternative to the old staid barbarian gods. Most provincial lunars worship the Seven Mothers as a whole. However some lunars can become devoted to one Mother. If he or she does so, they become members of that Mothers cult _within_ the cult of the Seven Mothers. I've already mentioned the Temple of Yanafal of the Seven Mothers in Alone and Stephen has mentioned the parallel of Orlanth Adventurous here.
The Mothers do have seperate cults outside of the provinces and Yanafal Tarnils is an excellent example of this. But his cult in the Red Army is a seperate (but v. similar) organisation from the cult of Yanafal of the Seven Mothers. One can only join the cult in the Red Army if one has joined a unit of the Heartland Corps.
> Personally, I think its an important distinction between this third
>cult and the Seven Mothers - the 'switched blades' Humakti IMO have no
>interest in indulging in Xaroni penitence, Jakaleel treachery, or Irripi
>Ontor sophistry. They are warriors who have switched sides.
Firstly not all barbarian warriors are humakti. Secondly if they have no interest in the other aspects of human life, then why did they switch from Humakt?
> Sure, but a Yanafals initiate is more likely to find himself
>seargeant of the native auxiliaries than his yokel compatriots who remain
>with their original gods.
I think his yokel compatriots would be worshipping the Seven Mothers as a whole rather than 'their original gods'. Having Orlanthi yokels in any lunar-controlled forces better trained than the militia is asking for trouble. But I do feel that a member of Yanafal of the Seven Mothers is more likely to be found in a leadership role in the Provincial Army than a plain Seven Mothers cultist.
>>IMO the Rune Lords of the Seven Mothers cult are actually
>>Priests of Yanafal of the Seven Mothers
>
> I'm not convinced.
To clarify, most rune priestesses of the Seven Mothers are followers of the undiffirentiated Seven Mothers (although a Priestess is assigned a station like Danfive Xaron or Irripi Ontor within the Temple). Some priests can choose to be more devoted to a particular mother so we have may find priests of Irripi of the Seven Mothers or Jakaleel of the Seven Mothers. It's just that given the nature of the culture in Dragon Pass, Priests of Yanafal of the Seven Mothers are the most common.
> I would have thought the Austerities and Penances of Yanafal came
>from that so-much-like-Humakt-as-to-confused-in-early-sources Hazar mystery
>cult that Yanafals was a member of, the cult whose god was summoned and
>fought Yanafals at the battle of Four Arrows of Light.
I always thought that was Humakt. I really know of no credible reason to assume otherwise as I haven't seen a greg yet. Arkat's father was himself a barbarian warrior who made it to Brithos. Who knows where else the cult might have travelled to?
> But indeed, all reinterpreted through the sublime Lunar vision of
>the goddess. Actually, gifts and geases seem so damn Lunar that I'd almost
>suggest they invented them - gifts and geases are so Natha/ Gerra ish.
Independent invention IMO.
>>A YotSM could take a Yanafali Austerity but he
>>would have to travel to Peloria to learn how to do it.
>
> I would rather think that the numerous Lunar Provincial Army
>Yanafali could be consulted. I'm sure that they would be happen to offer
>advanced religious instruction when politically expedient.
But I do not think there are Yanafal Tarnils in the Provincial Army. I think that being members of the Provincial Church, they would belong to the cult of Yanafal of the Seven Mothers.
>>But would they be joining the Red Army? I do not see Red Army
>>opening its temples to admit rustic 'civilians' into the prayer
>>services.
> I think the Lunars would consider it quite appropriate for their
>native auxiliaries to convert to their glorious religion.
'Glorious religion' being the Provincial Church and _not_ the Red Army cult of Yanafal Tarnils!
>And don't get too
>hung up on the Humakti barbarians vs Lunar Army toffs - a lot of the Lunar
>army in Dragon Pass are going to be Tarshites who are quite definately
>barbarians to the Heartlanders as well.
Which is why the Tarshites are in the Provincial Church of the Seven Mothers as well as the Provincial Army and _not_ the Heartland Corp which is where the worshippers of Yanafal Tarnils are.
>>Nor do I think the Lunar Empire have enough resources
>>to maintain various temples of YT for those 'professional soldiers'
>>who do not join the Red Army.
> No. I think a 'professional soldier' who, for some curious reason,
>is willing to embrace the Lunar religion but not their service, must either
>be content with befriending the local Lunar forces and accepting religious
>instruction from them, or must content himself with prayers at the local
>Seven Mothers missionary shrine, who can offer general religious guidance
>but not the inner secrets of the warrior path.
A 'curious reason' for a professional soldier who embraces the Lunar way but not their service is: bodyguard for some potentate, free-booter for hire or a lunarized King Malan. I've already dwelt with the local forces but the last point about mere contentment needs questioning. Why can't the Seven Mothers teach the inner secrets of the warrior path? They have the sub/associated cult of Yanafal of the Seven Mothers which is the warrior arm of the Provincial Church. He is found as a standalone cult in Alone for starters.
> Of course, the Lunars do maintain a large number of temples that
>are often used by their army, but are open to anyone who lives in that city.
I doubt very strongly that these temples (most of which are not Yanafal Tarnils Temples) are open to everyone (presumably Lunars) who lives in that city. Armed guards would prevent me from trying to enter the chapel at the nearest army base even though I share the same religon.
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