Oops and Agrimori Infantry

From: Bernuetz, Oliver: WPG <Bernuetz.Oliver_at_cbsc.ic.gc.ca>
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:26:20 -0500


I'd said:
>>The use of peltasts were one of the reasons why pike
>>phalanxes dropped out of favour. (They're cheaper too).
>>Roman style infantry were another. They'd still be among

Lee R. Insley corrected my faulty memory regarding peltasts replacing phalanxes by pointing out the actual progression. He then suggests:

>You may be thinking of Hypaspist which some believe were the
>beginings of the Roman cohort. The Hypaspist were an elite Hoplite group
>with lighter armor and shorter spears.

I think you're right, I had vague memories of phalanxes being defeated in Hellenistic times by a lighter form of infantry but I guess I misidentified them
as peltasts. Thanks. (Boy, Greek History class was a long time ago).

Lee again:
>Gives you a reason why Pavis is so important to SC and why the Sun Domers
>keep good ties with whoever controls Pavis. Also, most of the traditional
>enemies of Sun County were more of raiders than occupiers and probably
>couldn't mount a serious long-term *blockade* of the SC trade.

Agreed.

Peter Metcalfe:

>Hunter nomads have _more_ free time than sedentary people (and are
>healthier too). Much of their nutritional needs is met by womens
>work (cf the Entekosiad's 'How the Men got Useful' for a Pelorian
>understanding of this). The disadvantage of a hunter-gatherer
>lifestyle is that it can support _less_ people per unit area (tenfold
>is a good rule of the thumb). As for the discipline, it's needed
>so the Agimori can maintain their lifestyle in the face of competition
>from the animal nomads.

That's all very true but free time doesn't necessarily equal the sort of culture and mindset you need to drill in unit in order to enable you to operate as a unit armed with 16-18 foot poles. The fact that they have trouble getting together in big gatherings due to the food issue:

>The disadvantage of a hunter-gatherer
>lifestyle is that it can support _less_ people per unit area (tenfold
>is a good rule of the thumb).

Me. (Delete the Zulu reference, it's not terrible relevant).
>>IMG I've made the Agrimori peltasts instead. [...] This reduces the
>>discipline they need yet keeps them deadly. (Makes 'em more
>>like the Zulus too-I know the Zulus didn't use long spears) .

Peter Metcalfe:
>The main problem the Agimori have to cope with is
>the nomad cavalry charge. If they scatter, they're doomed. If
>they equip themselves as peltasts (on the plains of prax), they're
>liable to scatter and thus doom themselves. But if they stand firm
>and present a row of points to the charging cavalry, the nomad
>animals (save the rhinos) are more likely to turn away than commit
>suicide.

All very true, however I stated (well I hope I stated) that the Agrimori are still armed with long spears so they can still present a unit of long spears against cavalry. I envision them as a sort of peltats cum long spear unit. This actually makes them fairly flexible and dangerous:

  1. They can operate better in broken terrain.
  2. They have a missile option-thrown long spears (well, I think they could given their size and strength. Granted, it would have a very short range but it's something. Or if you prefer javelins or short spears).
  3. Still armed with long pointy things against cavalry.

Now, how do they beat impala riders? That I don't know though I think Sandy may have discussed it in his Art of Ambush in Prax article. The irony is that the sort of terrain that would provide the best terrain for Agrimori defense against cavalry i.e. broken makes a pike phalanx hard to use. But if they were armed with a long spear and javelin or short spears for missiles they could operate in broken terrain and still defend against anything short of Rhino Riders.

Anyway that's my opinion YGMV

Oliver D. Bernuetz
bernuetz.oliver_at_cbsc.ic.gc.ca
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/realm/5545

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