I hadn't got around to defining it more specifically than that. I know the God Learners were active in Fonrit (one of their fleets was sunk there), and it certainly sounds right to me that the Fonritians would be keen on an expansionist campaign to capture wealth from Jolar. What little we know of the Six Legged Empire culture does not sound at all incompatible with Fonritian culture (though very different to the culture of Jolar).
>>They probably conquered Laskal
>>as well. Thats not the only possibility, but its my favoured option of the
>>moment.
>
>I strongly doubt this. Much about Kothar and Tarien is only assumed
>from details about Jolar. If the Six-Legged Empire didn't expand
>into those regions then why would they conquer Laskal which is far
>less attractive (ie covered with light jungle and hills)?
Upon looking at the map again I agree with you - I don't think they ever conquered Laskal - Jungle (plus yellow elves) would make their tactics disastrous. I do think that there were raids into the Laskal jungle to capture rumoured fabulous treasures (think H. Rider Haggard and Kipling), and very likely slaves, but I don't think the Six Legged Empire would ever have been able to hold much of it.
>IMO the Six Leggers and/or the Goanese claimed control over Laskal.
>However this control was largely illusory as the terrain prevented
>effective government.
Exactly.
[I said 'the Doraddi think they are progressing away from the trappings of civilisation, and were actually more outwardly civilised before Hon Hoolbiktu']
>I take completely the opposite view and posit John Hughes 'Left Footpath'
>tribes as the original inhabitants of Jolar.
The Doraddi views on the progress of civilisation originate with Sandy, and I like them too, more than I like the Left Footpath stuff, so I'm sticking with it for now, at least as representing recent history. Certainly, I think the Doraddi were more civilised in the Second Age, and are deliberately less so in the Third (and claim to be much happier for it), and this change is a result of Hon Hoolbiktu.
Whether this really represents a truthful view of evolution from even earlier Doraddi culture, though, I'm not sure. Though it does seem rather doubtful that (as some Doraddi now claim) they used to have big cities but they are all gone now. But I do know that there are a host of other things I'm unsure of about First age and earlier Pamaltela, such as where the Artmali empire and the Baba Ulodr worshipping Agimori and other Old Gods fit in, and so I wouldn't want to speculate too much at the moment. I'm thinking about these issues a lot at the moment, but I'm no closer to an answer.
Sandy and I currently agree that the Left Footpath culture is found in the poorer ground of the Tarien, but pretty much gone in Jolar/Kothar. John, if you are out there, how do you feel about that? I would tend to feel that the Left Footpath is descended from Tarien Dawn Age culture and has been increasingly 'Pamaltised' since then.
>Since the Dawn, the Ia
>Rawthi should be expanding into the plains of Jolar. Since they haven't,
>I assume their cereals don't grow too well in Jolar.
Jolar in TOTRM #8 is specifically said to have no grass style plants, having clover instead. I would assume there is a good reason for it.
>Thus IMO the Six-Leggers took over the oases by force and represented
>a radical cultural change.
Definately. The Six Leggeds took over by taking the oases, building permanent forts at them, and then setting up roads between them. This is in stark contrast to the Doraddi way of doing things, where the oases are occupied by old people from a variety of tribes. Not to mention the Doraddi weren't big on organised conflict, so the Six Legged troops where a bit of a shock.
>>And the idea of Pamalt as the southern Earth King, Generts counterpart, is
>>also something I don't think is original to the Pamaltelan religion, along
>>with the attempt to turn his pantheon into an earth pantheon.
>
>Considering that Pamalt is a natural chieftain figure, it gets very
>hard to imagine him as not being the earth king.
He is the chieftain over the earth gods, and all the earth gods and spirits obey him. But his relationship to the earth is very different to Generts. Genert was always an earth god, Pamalt as far as I can tell married into the Earth tribe (Faranar was an earth goddess), and his earliest recorded deeds are as a firebringer. Most of his early deeds (before Vovisibor) he performs with the cooperation of another, while Genert was always powerful himself. Generts connection to the land is direct, while Pamalt mostly maintains his control by the cooperation of other gods. Genert is exclusively an Earth god, Pamalt is a fire bringer (both the Promethean role, and uses fire as a weapon against Vovisibor and the Uz). Genert is fertility, Pamalt is stability.
I think there is probably a myth where Pamalt actually gains his earth powers, rather than being a great earth being by nature.
Which is not to say that considering him as an earth king is in anyway wrong. Its just that saying 'the Pamalt pantheon is an earth pantheon, and Pamalt is the Southern Genert', which I believe was pretty much the God Learner view (though not necessarily the Six Leggeds) is very simplistic. Its another repeat of the classic God Learner 'here are two deities that occupy similar roles, they are obviously really much the same'.
Cheers
David
Even if Jmije was your enemy, you would still say he was a fast runner.
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