Peter:
>Simply because the Rathori are still Hsunchen and view the formations
>of the civilized people as an act of madness that was invented by the
>Trickster.
Who says formations are the result of "civilised" people? There are countless RW and Gloranthan examples of barbarians forming tight formations. Even chaos managed this on occasion! I think it would be odd indeed if the Rathori were somehow immune to the evolution of military tactics.
>They do not have the tradition of standing fast as one
>people in the face of danger - if knights charge them, the steps they
>take are bloody great big ones to the nearest cover.
Which would get them severely killed. Firstly we know the Rathori raid into the civilised lands. Secondly we know that they don't run as fast as a charing horse, thirdy, we know they would get ridden down if they did this. So why would they raid if this was the case?
>I don't believe the Rathori even bother with fire arrows _en masse_ as it
serves no
>useful purpose in their lifestyle.
Other than a very logical and militarily standard step of helping them survive? Come on Peter, do you honestly believe that they can be raiding civilised lands without picking up some form of military learning? I've no real world example where a culture who interacted with another militarily failed to do this, IF their tactics were getting them butchered.
Me:
>I concur that they would prefer hit and
>run to a degree but would contend that the Longbow is NOT the weapon to do
>this with. The tactical use of the longbow by the Rathori would seen to be a
>reaction to the heavy armour of their oft mounted foes in the Janube valley.
Peter:
>The Rathori Longbow was a gift from the Elves of Erigia after the
>Rathori graciously allowed them refuge within their woods. This
>dates it to the First or Second Wane whereas mounted foes have
>been in the Janube valley since the Dawn Ages.
You just made that up. The Rathori have had elves in that area for a long time AND given that form most of the period in between the early wanes and the present, they would have been asleep due to the Ban, how would they have become a Longbow culture so quickly? It take many generations of gradual growth to do that. The French tried to create a longbow force in the Hundred years war period and failed miserably.
>The Rathori avoided mounted foes by retreating to the woods and
>bushwhacking them from there. The wide open spaces are not for
>them as they are an arboreal people.
But they raid into open spaces! They raid the civilised lands! Often they simply wouldn't have anywhere to retreat too.
Here is how I think they would resist a cavalry charge.
Firstly those capable would turn partly into bears and the mere smell of a bear is enough to frighten all but the hardiest of horses. Secondly by forming a strong group and using missile fire at range, skirmishing as they retreat they can cripple horses and keep the less well armoured knights at bay. If they do make it to woodland then they can scatter but out in the open, they would have to have a means of survivall against mounted foes.
Bear in mind, this doesn't have to be a square or complex formation, a large clump of Rathori would be a forbidding obstacle to a cavalry charge.
>The bow has range and penetrative power.
>So has a hunting rifle (compared to a bow). Which should indicate
>what I think a Rathori uses his bow most often for.
And the French Chasseurs were equipped with rifles and were skirmish trained AND could fight in formation. And like the meaning of their name, many of them were hunters. Yes, the Rathori would use the bow for hunting, but why would they ignore its potential in combat? Consider a fight they get into with a bunch of Janubians. If they escape they return home and tell everyone how they outranged the enemy crossbows and how their rapid shooting took out many horses and men, thining the charge and breaking the attack. So they wouldn't learn from this?
> >Secondly the Rathori have bad memories of Carmanian
> >brutality that precipitated the White Bear wars (and many
> >veterans of those wars are still alive thanks to the Ban).
>Sure, but given that we know that the Rathori are not one state or mind,
>There would be many who would not serve the Carmanians, but there would be
>those who would. Orlanthi have served the Lunar Empire, even after brutal
>conquest. I think that some clans of the Rathori probably have a long
>history of serving Sweet Sea states as mercenaries.
>I don't think the Rathori have much utility as mercenaries
>considering their fighting habits. They are more useful as
>scouts or trackers.
Or skimishers or raiders. All useful functions for an army. I do also believe that a large body of berserk bear/men would make rather a good shield wall breaker. I also think that their longbows make an ideal ranged weapon for a tactical body. I can't see any reason why they wouldn't.
>Up to the formation of the White Bear Empire, they were the
>weakest of the Fronelan Hsunchen because of their sluggishness
>in the colder months. One could pacify them by making storm
>season raids to hunt them sleeping in their dens.
Agreed, severe weakness.
I agree that primitive socieities do not develop overly complex tactical deployments _in isolation_ from other influences. The Rathori are certainly not isolated though and do take a very active part in the HW to come. I think that they would have evolved militarily as a result. Not hugely, but somewhat.
Martin Laurie
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