Giant Australian killer ducks! So *that's* where my power totem comes from! :)
I saw a red moon last night. A powerful, awe-inspiring, and, dare I say it, holy experience. A total Lunar eclipse, with the full moon turning coppery orange then red before succumbing to darkness. The entire process lasted over two hours. 'And a chill wind blew throughout: it chased away the clouds, and then the stars.' :)
HEROQUESTING Andrew:
>Since its possible for people to get drawn into someone else's
> >heroquest without wanting to be there, what happens when a hostile
'player'
> >in a quest refuses to go along with the script? For example, let's say a
> >Humakti is doing the Humakti quest from KoDP and draws in a rival in the
> >role of Orlanth. In order for that quest to succeed, Orlanth has a lot of
> >'dialog' that he needs to speak to get Humakt to make the right
progression
> >in the quest. What happens if the Orlanthi refuses to say his lines?
What
> >happens if he just agrees to let Humakt have Death? Does the quester
'win
> >an easy victory' or does the quest go bad
I think the most honest answer here is, we really don't know, and we haven't really thought it through properly. (The list currently seems to be going through a phrase of pat evangelical answers to almost everything :) ). Most of the current solutions presume a higher degree of synchronicity to the Gloranthan universe than anyone seems prepared to admit. Lets see a few published roleplaying heroquests before we close the casebook.
KODP presents quests in such a manner that you get to tick the boxes - option a, option b, option c. This is both its beauty and the source of its limitations and frustrations. Roleplaying alternatives present thousands of shades of possibility, and can't be so neatly molded to form.
There used to be several types of heroquests. Hero Wars has (implicitly at least), swept a few of these under the hearth rushes, but I think its worth returning to basics in a search for Gloranthan perspectives.
(I'm writing in haste, so please excuse my somewhat disorganised point-making. Some stream of consciousness approaches to the heroquest include ...
DRY RUNS / PILGRIMAGE Dry runs - where everything happens on the material plane. Low levels run from sacred spot A to sacred spot B to C to D, and along the way they encounter groups of enemies either doing reverse quests (Orlanth and Zorak was always my favourite) or who are just 'there'. Which is fine in a game universe where everyone else is a NPC. The simplest example of a dry run quest is a sacrifice or worship ceremony, where the myth is condensed to a few words and actions. A variation: follow a pilgrimage line and things happen just like they did in the myths. Left Hand Doraddi Bridequests.
CEREMONIAL BREAKINS In a variation on the above, in initiation or cult-secret quests initiands/questers start with a ceremony, then wander through the back pasture and up the farther hill, there to encounter the gods themselves, or else gradually wander out onto the godplane (which was sitting just beyond Aunt Ethel's boundary stone all along). Harmast Saga is a prime example of this. Bluefoot Orlanthi getting their 'no tracks in snow' gift from Odayla is another.
SACRED TIME / HOLY DAY CEREMONIES Temple and sacred time rituals. People put on masks and undergo sacred possession. Children and non-initiates see people in masks with the Gloranthan equivalent of rubber swords mouthing silly dialogue; those who share the gnosis or are themselves possessed glimpse the timeless wonders of the godplane and the deities. And the world changes. Light triumphs. The crops are blessed.
'The chief beats up the stead Elmali / Orlanth Defeats the Evil Emperor 'is one of my favourite examples of this.
COMMON OR GARDEN QUESTING Train. Learn the stories. Sing the songs. Train some more. Prepare. Do the ceremony. Enter the godplane, taking the part of the deity you worship. Do everything exactly as you've been taught. Get beaten up, lose, win, play games as the script requires. Bring back the boon.
Heroquest by numbers. By far the most common approach.
LEAPFROG QUESTS Where for example, questing trolls enter the godplane, but when they attack the Eternal Pink-Skinned Horrible Bearers of Light and Heat (TM), they pop back onto the material plane to pulverize YOUR hearth just when you're in the middle of BBQing Daisy, your prized heifer and first love. You're in the quest, but all that's required of you is being there. And you don't like it.
(That particular quest sequence of material plane/godplane/material plane/godplane is one that probably bears greater scenario exploration.) It's one I tend to use a lot.
HOME DELIVERY PIZZA Do a big ceremony and call 'it' down right in the middle of your tula, then be prepared for all hell to break loose. The Orlanthi Summoning of Evil is a prime example.
HEROFORMING More a result of questing than a quest in itself, a hero identifies so closely with the deity that they incarnate them. Stand back and watch the fireworks. Largely terminal.
Prime example, Morden Defends the Camp, a Cult of Kyger Litor incarnation for a brave new age.
EXPERIMENTAL QUESTING The big taboo/breakthrough. Entering as yourself, you consciously break the patterns, mix up the encounters, get lost, insult the wrong raccoon and die a thousand horrible deaths. Bad ju ju if you're an initiate looking for a shortcut to Uleria's Bower. However, if you know the planes, are sufficiently powerful, have plenty of FREE WILL (now there's a concept lost along the way) and are not *too* attached to your deity, you can learn wonderful things and find new ways and new powers. Take a bow Arkat, Lunar 2nd Wane questers, Argrath and (I strongly suspect) Starbrow and her new Vinga paths.
OTHER Passive dreamy quests like the City of Wonders story in Gloranthan Visions. Major gods appear and actively assist your journey with no questions of cult allegiance, knowledge or intent - sit back and let the Goddess guide your way. (I quite like Phyllis Karr's story, and think it opens some important new portals into Glorantha. I also think its very very misleading to newcomers and almost an example of how not to conduct a heroquest. I'd like to give the story (and the other stories in the collection) the attention they deserve when I get a bit more time to discuss them.)
Okay, so looking at all these, and with Andrew's first question in mind, what are some of the themes and possibilities?
These elements suggest a partial solution. Why are *you* chosen to be Orlanth and not Cradledaughter down the next lodge? Perhaps because your identity/ state of being corresponds most closely to Orlanth in that particular pattern/myth, and so you're less likely to tell Humakt where he should stick his sword, and more likely to give him the 'correct' answer. There is almost certainly some element of heroforming involved: your pattern resembles the God's, the god speaks through you with little active effort on your part. (Of course, knowing the myths and the correct responses would be part of being a suitable vehicle.)
This interpretation is strengthened by those examples where no other cultist, but rather the gods themselves (or aspects, or patterns of the gods) seem to be active in the quest. Their responses are predictable, because they don't waste Free Will on denying their essence.
I'm sure that a devotee's training incorporates recognising and properly responding to 'the call' of someone else's heroquest. A majority of Orlanthi would wish to assist a humakti quest - though what happens if you're caught up but don't is still an unanswered question. Perhaps is one reason why questing is dangerous, and can go wrong so easily.
Why you'd cooperate in the furthering of an enemy quest is harder to fathom. Sure, a lot of times your choices are fairly simple: 'fight and kill the Zoraki or be killed', but this is not always so. And you'd know the enemy myth from your side at least, and would therefore have the knowledge to foil or subvert it.
Harder still is when you get pulled into Predark events, for Chaos by its nature is anti-structure and anti-predictability. I still have major problems with the concept of Chaos cults performing by-the-numbers heroquests.
Apologies for my rushed commentary. I'd rather get this out hurriedly than not have a chance to comment (which I won't again for a while). I think we still have a long way to go before we can claim to adequately understand the meta-rules of the questing genre. It's fun teasing out the possibilities though.
Please tear to pieces as appropriate.
John
nysalor_at_primus.com.au John Hughesjohnp.hughes_at_dva.gov.au
The heroes filled their drinking cups with wine
Sainted with water, which is best, and sipped;
And what in them was noble, grew;
And truthfulness, with many meanings, spread
Over the slopes and through the leafy spears
As Priam thrust the knife into the white lamb's throat.
Christopher Logue - War Music.
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