I'm not saying we ignore it, just that we all agree with me why it doesn't happen. ;-) In a nutshell, I don't think it fits in with Orlanthi gender-role stereotyping.
> I do believe that the more amusing approach is to define them
> as 'men' from most POVs. Apart from the fact that such an approach
> leads to a more Greggly style of naff revisionism, I think that it's also
> the better way to illustrate the specificity of Nandan within the culture.
But as you've invoked that spectre at the feast, it's not what Greg's said, which is that Nandan is a route into being accepted as entirely female, at least if his greater magic is invoked.
> It also enriches the male/female dichotomy (well, I think so anyway)
> by introducing a grey zone (more likely a rainbow one, actually).
> And other anthropo-naffness too ...
It would make it _less_ of a 'dichotomy' (though I assume that's pretty much what you mean, and want).
> Sorry ; I live in Paris' gay quarter, and my suggestions are
> *certainly* motivated by daily observation of conditions on
> the ground.
I didn't mean _that_ ground! <g> My point is: what mechanism is it that Nandan uses to overturn or sidestep Heortling preconceptions about sexuality and gender roles? My understanding is that rather than saying 'You're all wrong', they basically work by designating the Nandan worshipper as a woman, for such and such a purpose.
> Not that I see many pregnant men during my daily
> walkabouts ; but I *do* see many couples who consider
> themselves to be two *men* ; not a man and a "woman".
True, though even amoung gay men (and indeed gay women), there are often elements (as well as outright pastiching) of usual gender roles, and I think that's roughly how the 'Nandan model' works. Nandan's 'in' to acceptance among the Heortlings is adopting some degree of the female role. Obviously that may be the beginning and the end of many N. worshippers interest in, and role-adoption of, the god.
> Nandan is certainly a special case among Orlanthi homosexuals ;
> but because he is a special case one shouldn't be too hasty when
> considering the legal bonds that might (or might not) tie two
> gay Orlanthi with the rest of society.
In practice, you can pretty much do what you like, I think, though "Your degree of acceptance may vary". If the non-Nandan/Nandan marriage/partnership pattern doesn't work, and I agree with those that say it would be far from an invariable one, a Heler/<almost anyone> one would work, or come to that, a Trickster/<absolutely anything> one. Someone also mentioned the possibility of sexuality 'reversal' as a shamanic practice, I think. I dunno if that's at all common among Kolatings, but I wouldn't bet the house against it, either.
End of The Glorantha Digest V8 #22
Powered by hypermail