Islamic Glorantha / Shiite Sacred Places

From: TERRA INCOGNITA <inarsus-ferilt-z_at_mrg.biglobe.ne.jp>
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:59:12 +0900


Arabic Glorantha
Recently, I reread Nick Brooke's Carmanian Resources and I was rather embarrassed because he used quite a little parallel to RW Islam and Persia. I guess he think he should not use unfamiliar materials for refering to Europian Cultural Standards, IMHO that makes his work in a sense Imbalance.

In RW Islamic World, Iranic Culture usually held dominance over Culture and kept strain against more Fundamentalistic (and barren) Arabian Culture and more decentralized Greek Byzantine Culture. And Lunars came from Border of Many more Power Mongering Centers Rinliddi, Dara Happa and Pent, brought their Upstart Thinking to Neighborhoods. As Mediterranian Romans to Sophisticated Greeks and Softspeak Semites and Arabics to Exhausted Two Great Empire for existence of Each Other. Byzantines and Sassanoids.

But if I can count on Parallel to Arabic Domain in Glorantha, maybe Genertela hasn't enough Cleared Area for this Application. My recommendation is somewhere of Western-South Pent or Jarst, Garsting near Rinliddi, Wareran Pentans. I think they used Arabic Language in some period of time for our availability to use "Sultan", "Caliph", "Amir", "Jihad", "Genny", etc....So City
Blessed Torang can have similarity to Sacred Mecca.... (Another Bad Parallel to Arabia in Glorantha is Pamaltelan Fonrit, far more-biased "Orient" I think near to C. S . Lewis' Narnian Southerners...or Beckford "Vatek"?)

As you know, Lunar Empire started from Eastern Border of Carmanian Maximam Territory of Bull Shahs,
See more in Nick Brooke's Site Carmanian Resources about this topic. We can see Lunar Empire start unlimitedly from Rinliddi as Army of Arabian Prophet Muhammed in RW. This parallel starts Islamic Lunar Empire. We can count on similarity between Zoroasternized Sassanoid Empire and Christian Greek-Byzantines to Carmanians and Dara Happans. (But, at reverse, perfectly annexed was rather Dara Happans.) Umayyad Territory has great Similarity to Former LE before Sheng's Invasion.

In this course, we can catch this line with Change from more Greekish-Umayyad to more Shiite-Iranized Abbasyd. Abbasyd greatly used Influence of Shiite Iranians and Local Nobles such as Abu-Muslim and House of Valmak for founding their Supremacy. (I guess same Genius in Second Caliph of Abbasyd, Abu Mansur as Lucius Cornelius Sulla, Caesar of Roman Republic,
Second Emperor of Chinese Tang Dynasty. (IMHO, he is a man with rare ability who could wield Politic, Finance
and Military at the same time, he could handle both internal and external threat simultaneously, defeated many different set of enemies) )

If we afford using parallel between Mongolian and Turkish, (and Sheng Seleris was Timur rather than Ghingis Khan.) we can apply Former Empire to Seljuk Turkey and Latter Empire to Ottoman Turkey. I think that is making the Existence of Glamour as RW Constantinople, (But IMHO that image in geographycally is more fit to most Traditional Dara Happan City, Raibanth, and Bagdad is more suitable to her (nymph's) artificiality.)

Of course, we can find another Parallel but distant relate things besides them, such as
Abd al-Rahman fled from Abbasyd Purge to Iberia as Syranthir fled from GL Purge to Pelanda. Malkioni has also great similarity to RW Muslims as Christians and Judaeans, such as Hrestol to Ali, modern Loskalmi Structure to Islamic Unma
(Community) Zoroasternism is far more older than other Monotheistic Religion...but Gloranthan Carmanian Religion is younger than another Malkioni Country if I need not consider about Downfall of GL...

Persian = Carmanian?
Shiite Three Great Sacred Places

I found many interesting and fascinating sites about Persian Culture and Legends.
(But maybe it is dangerous to use such Materials coming from Fundamentalistic Iran...Remember about the Satanic Verses...)

Religion of Zoroasternism
http://www.etsu.edu/CAS/HISTORY/zoroast.htm The Epic of Kings
http://classics.mit.edu/Ferdowsi/kings.html Iran Saga
http://www.art-arena.com/heroic.htm

Islamic Iran
Islamic Digest online
http://www.islamicdigest.org/poems12.htm Imam Ali Homepage
http://www.imamali.i12.com/ie/index.htm
Karbala
http://www.irna.com/occasion/moharram/eng/karbh.htm Al Rida
http://www.al-islam.org/al-rida/

Najaf: Ali ibn Abi Tarib (The Lion of God) 's Grave, he was assassinated by Khaliij Sect, Iraq: South of Bagdad, Southeast of Karbala

Karbala: Husayn (3rd Imam) was tragedically killed here by Umayyad Army, Iraq: Southwest
of Bagdad

Mashhad: Al-Rida (8th Imam) was dragged into Intrigues in the Empire of Abbasyd, Caliph Mamuhn hope to gain Support of House of Ali, Assassinated by Unknown Power, Iran Border, Southeast of Caspian Sea, East of Tehran

As far as I know, many Shiite Sectional Dynasties related to Histrical Mainline existed even though their minority, 7 Imams Sect and 12 Imams Sect greatly shadowed over Islamic History, Legend about Assassins and Mad Caliph Haqim are most popular examples.

Arabians get used to living with Persian Tales coming from Indian and ancient Iranian Resources, many Persian Poets and Writers appeared in the Golden Age. (Seljuk Turkey?) Arabian Night Tales are such tales, many entered to Middle Age Europe....I should research more about Sufism.

In Middle Asia, Iranian Aryans much intervened early History before Turkes and Mongorians...Sogdian Merchants greatly influenced Commerce and Communication, and lived symbiosis with Nomad Empires as Communicator and Conciliator. They exported strange Religions such as Zoroasternism and Manichaesm. One of their most famous personality served to Chinese Emperor and led a Great Rebellion against Emperor of Tang with Beauty.  Ephtal Nomads were Iranian / Turkish Stock, harassed many Empires and took great Territory until they would defeated by Sassanoids and Turkey.

Chinese Influence to Middle Asia:
Sheng Seleris's Image is greatly influenced from the Photocopy of Fortunate Succession, but that Statuette is made in the period of Tang Dynasty as Ancient Virtuous God-Emperor Yao...Don't arrogantly dare to think you conceive aesthetic sense of Ancients...

I mentioned about 2nd Emperor of Tang Dynasty, that Age is most Glorious Day for Chinese Empires. Famous Personalities travelled to Western Land and got back Great Fame and Treasure. At this Age, Last United Kingdom of India before Islam Invasion, existed in Magada as a Successor of Buddhist King Asoka. Harsha Vardhana kept Buddhism because Hinduism doesn't have Power for Unification of Indian Lands...Eventually his kingdom drowned in the Stream of History. Before his death, One Priest visited his Land for Scrolls of Mahayana (Great Vehicle) Sutra.

I haven't see you for a long time...Gian
>Have you ever tried to translate SonGoku legend in
>Gloranthan terms?

Now I can try to analyze and break down the Great Volume of "Tale of Westfaring"....(What a reckless Trial..) 1) In Real Historical Line
"Why do you mean to desecrate his Sacred Tales into Foolish and Childish Tales with many Mambo-Jambo? He was a Great Man and went solely for his Strong Will and Faith. There is no need and space for foolish Monkey!" He returned back riding over Cloud, he and his three disciples all met to 2nd Emperor of Tang after 13 years. That is not history, that is Legend coming from Innocent Faith of Populace....

2) Master and Servant Monkey
Read about Rama and Hanuman in the Indian Ramayana. We could add these resources to Teshnan Legend: Kang Luway and Soravatoor.

3) Rebel against Oppressive Emperor Rule That is not unreasonable Communism China favour this Part of this Story. (but they dislike Latter Part of Tales as Boring and Dogmatic, and ignore

the aspect of (5).) I think I don't need to mention most similar story in
Glorantha (O/Y)...And I think I can apply similar story to My version of
Pentan Mythology...in Pentan Hell.

4) Pilgrimage
They went Sacred Place and Apotheosized for their Difficult Heroic Deed. I remember someone want to make similar Story from Teshnos to Dara Happa. And I planned such tale from Vormain to Loskalm...

5) Alchemistic Term
I have some difficulty to explain about this Aspect...Many Good Guidebooks were written by Famous Chinese Scholars. I wrote "Emperor Thaluzni" greatly influenced from this Aspect.

After his Kingdom was destroyed by Locals, one General of Tang Dynasty visited and was attacked by them. But he escaped and received the help of Tibetan Army, defeated them.(It's not well-known history for Japanese and Chinese, as Europians.)

Some Questions:
Who is Hardrinor? (This name appeared in Timeline of Rastalulf's Saga.)

What is goose dance?

Hantrafal and Andrin Old (Godi of Vingkot?), Andrin New (King of Heortland, Zombie King)

I think Arim Tarsh and Sheng Seleris made contract vs Lunar Empire....

Why did TakenEgi, Blue Moon Priestess and Arronius Jaranthir play Ouranekki before Battle of Kitor?

Where is Trickster Temple of Slontos? I think Great Geographycal Change occured besides the simple Sinking of Many Lands and Islands.

Can I expect Connection between Heortling Mythology and Kethaelan Mythology in the Myth of Celestial Court?
I think 8 Gods about Primal Rune has similarity to Egyptian Tebes Mythology. They think Orlanth once lived in slopes of Dini...not Kero Fin or Hill of Gold. Many Centers of World exist in their Mythology...


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