Re: Divine identities: Balumbasta/Lodril from Chris Lemens on 2001-09-21 (Glorantha Digest Vol 08)

From: Chris Lemens <chrislemens_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 09:14:20 -0700 (PDT)

Alex Ferguson, responding to me:
> > Another argument is that they are a defiant
> > entity, like Storm Bull. I don't like this
> > argument, because the label seems to indicate
> > that the entity, out of its own power, decides
> > to defy the rules. This does not really
> > describe either Balumbasta or Lodril.
>
> It does. Which is why it's a sucky name. (And one
> reinforced by the descriptions of such entities
> to date, which seem to deliberately conflate
> issues of different classes of otherside being,
> and different class of magical practice.) More
> constructive to think in terms of the
> four magic systems being a useful descriptive
> device, but not the whole story. The "defiant"
> entities are simply those which, rather than
> breaking some cosmic by-law, are those hapless
> beings which just happen to be poorly described
> by this "take" on the world.

So, your definition of a "defiant" entity is one that is not well described by any of the four world systems? Perhaps "undifferentiated" would be a better word here?

> > So, for example, was the Lodril that the trolls
> > captured really Lodril, Balumbasta, or other?
> > And do we have to decide?
>
> Only insofaras one feels the need to theorise on
> such matter on the Digest ..., or, if one can
> conceive of the circumstance, it comes up in play.

Hypo: Man-and-a-half on the Praxian plaines runs into a Lodril worshipper from the Empire. Stand-off ensues as each tries to determine the other's intent. Lodril worshipper casts flaming-spear-type spell on his spear, to deter the 1.5man. Intrigued by the use of his Great Spirit's trademark spell, the 1.5man grounds his spear and they talk. What do they discover? What otherside adventures might they jointly embark upon?

> In which latter case, we can at least narrow down in
> what senses we want to answer the question.

> Are we trying to "connect up" (apparently different)
> places on the Other Side?

Great question. It really goes to the origin. Can thay both visit the same events? Can they arrive as part of the same ceremony? Will they see each other if they arrive from separate ceremonies? Will the Man-and-a-half discover that, for some time, Balumbasta also served as Kendamalanar's footstool? Will the Lodril worshipper discover that Lodril created the Agimori?

> Are we trying to work out if initiation to one
> entity gives one an "in" to the other?

Assuming that you mean "Does initiation into one constitute initiation into the other?", I'd presume not in the hypo because this is primarily an issue of how religion is practiced.

A further twist is whether they can figure out how to mimic each others magical abilities. Can the 1.5man more easily discover a Balumbasta spirit that lets him perform some Lodril feat that he saw? How much more easily?

> Are we trying to discern cultural viewpoints?

At least common myths.

> Or identify common physical manifestations?

Yes, whatever that means.

> Are we playing Glorantha, the God Sim, in which
> we want to quantify the amount of collateral
> worship that "flows" between the two?

No, but that would be a fun game, too.

Chris Lemens

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End of The Glorantha Digest V8 #540