> Message: 1
> From: "Greg Stafford" <greg_at_glorantha.com>
> To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
> Subject: Greg Corrects and Clarifies Himself
> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:25:46 -0800
> Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
>
> All,
>
> A couple of corrections and clarifications.
>
> >From: "Greg Stafford" <greg_at_glorantha.com>
>
> >>- likewise, where does Tibettan mysticism and
> >>related practices,
> >>which certainly seems much closer to mysticism
> >than
> >>any other sort of
> >>magic, but in which the manifestation of mystic
> >>powers is not considered failure?
> >
> >Actually, if you mean the common and practical bo
> >practices, this is animism. It is more like magical
> >practices than most forms of Buddhism.
>
> In my above statement I want to make it clear that I'm talking about the
"book of the dead" type of Tibetian practices. Red hat, bo, and generally
lamistic practices.
Me:
>From historical perspective, tibetan buddhism derived from both indian and
chinese "esoteric" (I don't know how to stress the word "esoteric", but at
least in Chinese and Japanese tradition, it is definitive concept against
Revelational Mahayana sects) buddhism heritage, much absorbed aborigine
cosmology (shamanism?) in the process. (though historical perspective is
irrelevant to this discussion.) I think the translation of title "Book of
the Dead" is another confusing component.
> >Manifest mysticism was based on tantric principles,
> >which still may have some reality in Glorantha, but
> >in most cases actually result in some form of other
> >magical manifestation.
>
> Tantric practices ought to be looked at in and of themselves. Buddhism and
Hinduism both adapted tantric practices as well, as have many modern forms
of spiritual practice.
Me:
As I said, "tantric" sounds vague for me.
[Tantra: [Sanskrit] Simple meaning, Succession. Sometimes attributed to
sensual method of some mystical sects. [Some Japanese Buddhism, Tibetan,
etc....]]
http://www.maxpages.com/globalnetwork/Sanskrit_Dictionary
http://www.indiaoz.com.au/hinduism/sanskrit_dictionary.shtml
Most of "tantric" buddhism is not related to martial arts.
In the latter context, you attributed yogic practice to tantra. [Yoga--techniques of developing and integrating energy Yoga Sutras--classical text of Patanjali on Yoga]
>
> >The martial arts are generally based upon control
> >of chi, as has been pointed out. If you use it then
> >the chi manifests in some form, either matrial of
> >immaterial, and thus is not mysticism.
>
> Note that this control of chi is VERY similiar to the control of kundalini
practices that are central to tantra.
Me:
Maybe I confused this matter, chi is not always the energy inside of the
human body, in meta-physical taoism, it means a sort of atom that composes
all energy, spirit, physical and mental existence. Taoism absorbed much
buddhism idea in history, but it involves contradiction.
<<> This is a good place to clarify something furthermore: If your practice uses any of the intermediary forms to reach mysticism, then it's not a real mystical practice as I have defined it. >>
Me:
Then most of lunar illuminates are not mystics.
> Message: 6
> From: =?iso-8859-1?B?QW50b25pbyDBbHZhcmV6IGRlbCBDdXZpbGxv?=
> <antalvarez1976_at_hotmail.com>
> To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
> Subject: Alchemy and mysticism
> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 18:16:25 +0200
> Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
>
>
> >For instance, taoist alchemy? It is clearly a sorcery tye of pracice, not
mystical at all.
>
> Most of these alchemists are not mystics, in your definition. Alchemy is
often related to inner transformation. Inner transformation is not
mysticism, but it could be a way for reaching trascendence.
>
> Meditative practices (as Nei-Tan= internal alchemy) are IMO related to
immaterial world (thoughts), and some people could use meditation for a
mystic propose.
>
> External alchemy (Wai-Tan) is related to material world, and it could be a
technic used by mystics. Tring to find trascendental "materia prima" or
something like that.
>
> Everybody that meditates or do alchemy is not a mystic. But some of them
are mystics, IMO. Mystic meditation tries to go beyond thought, and mystic
alchemy tries to go beyond matter.
>
> Regards,
>
> Antonio
>
See above, Greg's statement about intermediary forms of "mysticism".
TI
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