Hi Viktor, the whole ZF thing has become fairly complex, and I am at least peripherally to blame, but the confusion has had some positive ramifications.
> How is Zola Fel worshipped by Sartarites in Prax?
Sartarite theists worship ZF as a male god. Officially, this is misapplied worship, but weird things happen (or will happen) in Pavis. Weird things happen in Pavis basically because Pavis (city) holds a stronger link with the pre-HW/HQ version of Glorantha than other parts of the world, which has real mythic and magical consequences in people's games. This IMO is an example of unfathomable dragon magic in action.
> I look in River of Cradles and the RQ3
> Prosepedia, and Zola Fel is listed as a (male)
> God of the River.
>
> In the Pavis tribe section of the website, I see
> the 'Zola Fel Tradition', where she (sic) is
> described as the spirit of the River.
ZF is the spirit of the river. She, that is.
This is her core being.
> This prompts me to ask some questions:
>
> * When did Zola Fel (the male God) turn into
> Zola Fel (the female spirit)? Are these the same
> beings?
It is possible that ZF retains a stronger link to the primal, undifferentiated god-spirit Seolinthur than most rivers do to the Elder Waters. But this is the stuff of Hero Wars stories, not ontology.
YGWV Seolinthur ceased to be a god-spirit when s/he died, AFAIK, and IMO the god/spirit confusion surrounding ZF is an emanation of that severance. AKA a rationalisation of the fact that many RQ grognards refuse to accept ZF as a female spirit. Including me, sometimes.
The living remains of Seolinthur are spirits.
All of them.
But some dead portions of Seolinthur still _exist_ ...
This is the Great Darkness.
Come the Tsunami !!!
... ;-)
ZF (the female spirit) has a male double/fetch
called Hagarn. The fact that the Dorasings
(Pavic Orlanthi) worship ZF as a male god
is a Mystery IMO, but Hagarn is a dead
spirit and therefore not the being that the
Dorasing theist ZFites are worshiping.
Confused ? Think about it : you'll see it gets worse if you do.
IMG the ZF theists have misapplied worship penalties because they're worshiping a dead god _via_ ZF mythology, rather than worshiping a spirit as if she were a god. One day, this is going to make a BIG difference ... ... IMG, anyway.
Lord Pavis Understands This. Praise Lord Pavis.
Chris :
> I believe the Praxian nomads worship Zola Fel as a
> male spirit. For them, he is the blood of Brave
> Seolinthur, who fell fighting the Devil.
Interesting : this is very similar to ideas I put into Les Héritiers de Zola Fel re: Hagarn, and I think your new version is very appropriate for the Praxians.
> That said,
> in a deeper reality, all water entities seem to have
> somewhat fluid definitions in terms of gender and
> otherworld origin.
But Zola Fel exists in a shallow reality. I believe that several entities exist, commingled as Zola Fel, but that the true Seolinthurian mutability is a lost Treasure of the Green Age.
Bryan :
> Prax is mostly anamist, and there is no particular reason to think
> that the Zola Fel doesn't fit into this.
There's no particular reason to think why s/he should, either ...
> So unless it amuses you, I'd go with ZF being a spirit.
ZF is a spirit with a skeleton in the closet, IMO ...
> Mind you, some [sartarites] may also give it misapplied worship as a god.
It's canon that they do.
> There
> are probably no or at least few and weak natural holy places to the
> storm pantheon available to them.
Quite possible that a few streams leading into the ZF are daimones, maybe in Pavis County.
But actually, theist ZFism is centred in Pavis, and IMG is mysteriously linked to the Puzzle Canal.
But really, the whole otherworld separation thing is part of the greggly Plan, and it might just be best to look at the whole ZF thing as just another clue ...
;-)
Julian
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