Bell Digest v930409

Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 17:15:08 +0200
From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: The RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 09 Apr 1993

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From: MAB@SAVAX750.RUTHERFORD.AC.UK (Mystic Musk Ox)
Subject: RE: The RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 08 Apr 1993
Message-ID: <9304081537.AA17842@Sun.COM>
Date: 8 Apr 93 15:36:00 GMT

>Army sizes
>==========

>The likeliest source of reasonable comparisons would probably be from ancient
>history, rather than Napoleonic or the 30 Years War [For all the impact of
>magic as technology, the societies of Glorantha in c1600STdon't seem have the
>social structures (such as nation states with strong central governments)
>necessary for a fair comparison with Europe even c1600AD.]  I don't have firm
>figures for Persia, which was probably much of a size with the Lunar Empire
>(but ~100,000 for Xerxes' march upon Greece rings a bell). The Roman Legion
>was 6000 men plus auxilaries, the there were a couple of dozen of these at the
>height of the Empire - though at that time it would have been about twice the
>size of the Lunar Empire c1600ST, maybe more - and an operating detachment
>would be from 1-3 legions.

>The effectiveness of a force goes roughly as the square of the number of men.

Surely the Lunar Empire counts as a strong central government? But,
yes point taken. I quoted those numbers partly to give an idea of how
big armies COULD be, and also 'cos I know more about that era than
earlier ones! I was under the impression though that the Persians were
the first to evolve a bureaucracy and civil service - in fact their
entire government was very sophisticated.

I'm not so sure about the effectiveness of a force being proportional
to the square of the number of troops, after all, there must be a tail
off when a force starts to get so large that its command and control
becomes ineffective.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Buckley
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: seh0@aberystwyth.ac.uk
Subject: Ploughshares
Message-ID: <9304081633.AA15697@deca.aber.ac.uk>
Date: 8 Apr 93 18:33:40 GMT

Rather than using the overly powerful Rune Magics for elementals
(Sorry, DIVINE magic, I must update my vocab) how about a simple use
of Bladesharp 4 on the blade of the plough....?

Inspiration for this idea came from Mark Plowman, I can't take the
credit myself....while digging after a vampire, he suggested it.

As for army sizes, I'm not sure, but doesn't it give Gloranthan army
sizes, or at least an impression of them, in "The Cradle" in the Pavis
sourcebook?  Having run the adventure a couple of years ago now, I
can't remember, but I'll dig around and see what I can find.

As for cults making reappearances, I was pleased to see the more
extensive write-ups of cults in River of Cradles, as opposed to the
snippets of information available in GoG.  Somehow that supplement
just didn't satisfy.

Come to think of it, I need to look up army sizes fairly rapidly.
After Easter comes the liberation of Jonstown in my campaign (second
time it has been liberated).

I'll send the cult details of Cernein in on the 12th or thereabouts.
Till then.

Stephen Hunt
Better Red Than Dead

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From: seh0@aberystwyth.ac.uk
Subject: Chaos Features
Message-ID: <9304081638.AA16219@deca.aber.ac.uk>
Date: 8 Apr 93 18:38:37 GMT

Chaos features....as another note.  In my campaign, there have been
several examples of questing to rid oneself of chaos features, usually
by NPCs.  Also, it has to be said, my players have never suffered from
chaos features themselves.  They've always been far too cautious when
approaching chaos nests.  Usually disease gets them first anyway.

However, I'm sure the disposal of chaos features could be attained by
special quests (I will not say Heroquests, because that is OTT), and I
would be prepared to accept Divine Intervention as a possibility
(although perhaps at a reduced chance of success)

Off again

Stephen Hunt
Better Red Than Dead.
.#

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From: marks@slough.mit.edu (Mark S. c/o Tom Yates)
Subject: Battle Losses, Yelmalians
Message-ID: <9304081710.AA02670@Sun.COM>
Date: 8 Apr 93 17:13:11 GMT

Re: Military Campaigns

The designer's notes to "The Peloponnesian War" have average loss
percentages for hoplite battles.  They estimate the victor
consistently loses 5% of his troops.  The average loss for the
defeated side was 14%, but this had a much wider variation.  In
Staffordian history we have examples of the entire losing army being
destroyed and their souls eaten.  Eating souls, however, is a crime
against humanity; it may bring United Nations intervention.  They'll
probably give sanctions more time, though.

Re: The Yelmalians in 877ST

I think the whole Elmal/Yelmalio change was a mistake on Greg
Stafford's part. Imagine the howls of outrage from players if a
Gamemaster tried to make such a change in a long running campaign.
Authors have to maintain internal consistency if we are to maintain a
suspension of disbelief.

If you want to salvage as must consistency as possible, assume that
Yelmalians did come to Pavis in 877.  Perhaps some Elmal worshipers
mucked about with their god earlier.  This would arouse the ire of
their neighbors, giving them an incentive to move to Sun County.
Later, when the Lunars approached, the rest of the Elmali chicken out,
and cut their storm connections.  Jalk's book is hardly the most
reliable of sources, so one could justify such an extrapolation.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
               Mark Sabalauskas-Marks@slough.mit.edu

                   ---------------------------
     "There are three main causes that dispose men to madness:
love, ambition, and the study of currency problems."
 
                                   Walter Leaf
-----------------------------------------------------------------

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From: ROBERTSON@delphi.intel.com (Roderick Robertson, SC1-5, x52936)
Subject: Armies in Glorantha, a study
Message-ID: <7F1911ED800041ED@delphi.intel.com>
Date: 8 Apr 93 18:14:00 GMT

Regarding the question of armies in Glorantha:

Having the time at home to look at old products, here is the muster of
Sartar from the game Dragon Pass, (I have, but did not catagorize, 2nd
Ed. White Bear Red Moon).

Heavy units are non-missile users, Light units are missilers (and
generally smaller and faster)


   Sartar Forces
   =============

   City militia: 6 Heavy Foot, 3 Light Foot (ducks), 6 Heavy Horse
   Free Army: 5 Heavy Foot (incl. 1 Telmori Foot), 9 Heavy Horse, 1 Light 
		Horse (Pavis Royal Guard)
   Magical union: 4 Foot, 4 Mounted, 1 Wasp Riders, 1 Wind Children, 1 
		Storm Walkers

   Special Units: Harrek, Argrath, Gunda, 2 Dragontooth Runners

   Total Units: 41 "normal" military units


   Lunars: 
   =======

   Heartland Corps: 4 Heavy Foot, 4 Light foot, 6 Heavy Horse 

   Cavalry Corp: 9 Heavy Horse, 4 light Horse

   Native Furthest: 7 heavy Foot, 3 Heavy Horse

   Imperial Bodyguard: 3 Heavy foot, 3 Heavy Horse

   Magical College: 5 foot, 4 Horse, 2 Full Moon Corps, 1 Crater 
		Makers, Crimson Bat

   Special Units: Jar-eel, Beatpot, Red Emperor

   Allies
   ======

   Grazelanders: 4 Heavy Horse, 4 Light Horse, 1 Golden Bow (magic 0 LH), 
		4 herds, Feathered Horse Queen


   Sun Dome Temple: 3 Units of pikemen


    Dragonewts: 5 Crested (Scout) Foot, 3 Crested (scout) Cav., 5 
		beaked (Warrior) Cav, 3 Tailed Priest (Noble) foot, Inhuman King 

    Trolls: 3 Great Troll, 2 Trollkin, Cragspider

    Tusk Riders: 5

Unfortunately, I bought one of the first copies of the game, and got
the second counter sheet for Nomad Gods instead of the rest of the
Allies. (One of these days I need to see if there are any sheet B's
lying around...)

The Sartar elements can be considered the total fighting force of the
Kingdom. The Lunars are merely part of the total Imperial Army.

In WF7 Greg talks about the Magical regiments in White Bear Red Moon,
the early verion of DP, indicating that units are between 500 and
2,000 men (In the 2nd edition of WBRM each unit is said to be approx.
500). He then goes on to show an example of a Sartarite Magical unit,
the Eaglebrown Warlocks (a Attack 4, Magic 4, Move 5, Range 5 mounted
regiment) The Warlocks have 525 Guards, and 58 priests. At the low
end, 500 troopers per unit, the Sartar muster comes to about 20,500
men/women/whatevers. At the high end, 2000 troopers, the muster is
about 82,000.

In KOS, Jalk's Book has an estimation of the fighting strength of the
Colymar tribe (p. 233).

In the estimation, the town of Clearwine is listed at 650 adults and
900 children. The total tribe is esitmated at 6,500 adults. 3,250 are
men, 85% of which can muster out. (2,800 men). The estimation guesses
that 90% are Fyrdmen (lightly armed and armored), the remainder are
elites (Housecarls and Thanes).

Looking at the tables in Glorantha, Genertala, we see that characters
from the Barbarian Belt have a 89% to be in the 'carl' class, with 11%
in the Thane/Housecarl class (Noble, Priest, Warrior), matching the
estimation pretty closely. Sartar is listed on p 23 as having a total
of 180,00 Human adults. Using the Estimation, about 76,500 warriors
can be mustered, 7,650 of which are heavily armed and armored. This
would seriously disrupt society, but when you are being invaded...

I hope this has been of service, 
Roderick Robertson
Robertson@delphi.intel.com

---------------------

From: carlf@Panix.Com (Carl Fink)
Subject: Rabbit fever and more
Message-ID: <199304081746.AA25102@sun.Panix.Com>
Date: 8 Apr 93 09:46:00 GMT

STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham) writes:
 
>ade@insignia.co.uk (Adrian Brownlow) asks
 
>> The Praxians live off their animals - does this mean
>> they eat no vegetables at all?>
>
>In this world, such behaviour would lead to the "rabbit fever"
>experienced by some hunters and trappers in the Old West : our
>metabolism isn't geared to a carbohydrate free diet.  Given the
>Waha compromise, it is possible that the Praxian nomads may be
>able to subsist on the blood, flesh and milk of their beasts alone
>- however we do know that the skullbush is a useful source of
>edibles for the Praxians.  [I've never been sure which Earth
>culture the Praxians are closest to - are they Mongols, Plain
>Indians, or perhaps more like the Masai feeders on blood & milk?]
 
Um, no.  Rabbit fever is caused by a diet of *lean* meat only - if you
eat meat from fattier animals than rabbits, and include some organ
meats (especially liver) you can live entirely on animal products
indefinitely.  Check out the lifestyle of Eskimos during the winter.

Sandy Petersen once compared the Praxians to the Amerinds in my
presence - the Plains Indians, to be more exact.  The Mongols compare
to the Pent nomads.  I don't know of a Maasai equivalent off the top
of my head.

About the humans vs. Elder races thing - everyone is using what I call
the "Tolkien Assumption" - that is, that humans will triumph and
eventually wipe out the other intelligent species.  While the future
history in _King of Sartar_ indicates that this may be true, as of the
early 1600s (the time of most campaigns) it is by no means inevitable.
The elves are about to engage in major conquest in both Genertela and
Pamaltela, the Dwarfs are in no danger from any possible combination
of human states, and the return of Arkat will certainly strengthen the
troll position.

The advantage humans have as of 1621 is just that the Elder Races
spend all their time fighting *each*other*, and the humans are left
relatively alone.

Carl Fink         carlf@panix.com     C.FINK4(GEnie)
 

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From: okamoto@hpcc90.corp.hp.com (Jeff Okamoto)
Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 08 Apr 1993
Message-ID: <9304081855.AA23914@hpcc90.corp.hp.com>
Date: 8 Apr 93 18:55:20 GMT

> From: markg@engrg.uwo.ca (Mark Gagnon)
> Subject: Cults of Prax, Cults of Terror
> 
> A question for RQ3 players: Has anyone ever had a Stormbull player contract
> a nasty case of Chaos Feature? How would you referee it?

Well, considering that every other Storm Bull would be able to Sense
Chaos on the PC, if I were playing the character, I'd have him/her
walk to the nearest SB temple and ask to be killed.

Jeff

---------------------

From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Gidday from MOB!
Message-ID: <01GWT181MWJ09FQ10S@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 9 Apr 93 22:58:19 GMT

Gidday Everyone on RQ Daily Mail,

Henk asked me to announce myself, so here I am!  I'm one of the
editors of TALES OF THE REACHING MOON, along with David Hall and Steve
Thomas.  At the moment I'm working on issue #11, the Pamaltela
Special, and am seeking submissions for it.  Anyone interested can
e-mail me, or snail mail me at: Michael O'Brien 2/33 Carween Ave.
MITCHAM, 3132 Victoria, Australia.

I can be phoned or faxed on +61-3-874-1923.  (If you want to fax me,
you've gotta phone me first so I can plug it in!) Also, remember that
when its daytime where you are, it might be the middle of the night
here!)

The list of contents for issue #11 is taking shape.  We will be
featuring the Cult of Pamalt, new version, and one or more areas from
The Pamaltela Book, the unpublished companion to Chaosium/AH's
Genertela Book in WoG.

I am especially keen to receive scenario/cameo submissions to this
issue, as this is where we are particularly light on (in fact we don't
have any yet!)

LUNAR BOOK

You may or may not know that Greg Stafford is compiling a companion
volume to KING OF SARTAR, but with a Lunar angle.  I am assisting in
this project and am writing about the Red Emperor.  I would be
interested to see anyone's comments or musings on Big Red. Writing
Gloranthan material for Greg is a daunting prospect as you could well
imagine!

Cheers from the Land Down Under,

MOB