Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 17:15:13 +0200
From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: The RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 13 Apr 1993
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From: wroberts@magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William C Robertson)
Subject: "Bronze Age" sophistication, Earth Elementals, Ritual Suicide
Message-ID:
Date: 9 Apr 93 10:05:21 GMT
Regarding Army sizes, and comparisons of Early Modern (and later)
Societies and Bronze Age societies.
Mark Buckley writes...
>>The likeliest source of reasonable comparisons would probably be from ancient
>>history, rather than Napoleonic or the 30 Years War [For all the impact of
>>magic as technology, the societies of Glorantha in c1600STdon't seem have the
>Surely the Lunar Empire counts as a strong central government? But, yes
>point taken. I quoted those numbers partly to give an idea of how big
>armies COULD be, and also 'cos I know more about that era than earlier
>ones! I was under the impression though that the Persians were the first
>to evolve a bureaucracy and civil service - in fact their entire government
>was very sophisticated.
Yes, the Lunar Empire is a strong and sophisticated government, but I
think that we have a tendancy to overestimate the capabilites of a as
citizens of the modern world. I think it's necessary to remember that
Bronze age cultures were limited in their ability to gather and mass
information. I saw a ridiculous article in ToRM (Michael O'Brien,
sorry to rag on your magazine the first week that you subscribe to the
digest) about some sort of Lunar spy organization that gathered more
information than the NSA does.
As an example I'd like to offer the Tokugawa Shogunate, they were a
strong central government, and they had some pretty strict "class
separation laws." One of these laws forbade anyone but peasants to
carry arms, but they couldn't enforce it. The shogunate also forbade
anybody to make gunpowder, but one of the Daimyo domains collected an
annual local tax of saltpeter. Saltpeter is one of ingredients of
gunpowder. Any guesses as to what they used it for? (I don't have
specifics in front of me, but if you're interested then contact me
through e-mail, and I'll see what I can dig up) Note to Mark, I'm not
flaming you or picking on you're point of view. I'm just voicing my
opinion on the subject :)
Regarding the use of Earth Elementals for plowing fields.
Stephen "The undead Red" writes...
>Rather than using the overly powerful Rune Magics for elementals (Sorry,
>DIVINE magic, I must update my vocab) how about a simple use of
>Bladesharp 4 on the blade of the plough....?
Yeah, I heard this somewhere, and I think that it's probably what your
average farmhand uses their local varient of bladesharp for. I can
imagine some circumstances for the use of earth elementals to plow
fields though. Suppose that a given farmer is unable to plant his
crops in a given year. He may be ill, injured, or off fighting in
defense of the tribe. So the local Ernalda priestess helps out by
loaning her earth elemental to the effort.
Regarding Storm Bull and chaos features.
I suppose that if I were a truly devout worshipper of Storm Bull, I'd
kill myself in some sort of grotesque ritual in an attempt to purify
myself. I'd also be sure to take out anyone who was dumb enough to
watch. As a GM I'd give a Storm Bull until the next holy day to kill
him or herself until I sicked the cult spirit of retribution upon his
or her impious and chaos infected self
To Michael O'Brien.
Great to have you on the digest. I really enjoy Tales of the Reaching
Moon. It revived my sagging interest in Glorantha and RuneQuest.
That makes me want to say "Thanks!" I really appreciate what you and
the others at ToRM are doing.
*****
I'd like to thank everybody for their input regarding Gloranthan
armies, but I'm still wondering why a bunch of trolls would want to
subjegate a bunch of humans.
-Bill
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From: kenrolston@aol.com
Subject: For RQ Daily
Message-ID: <9304092236.tn58007@aol.com>
Date: 10 Apr 93 02:36:37 GMT
>Does anyone know whether or not the old RQ2 supplements "Cults of
>Prax" and "Cults of Terror" will reissued for RQ3/RQ4? I understand
>that "Shadows on the Borderland" (still in the works, or so I'm told...)
>will be in Doraster; will this module contain "Cults of Terror" material?
Neither will be reissued as such. A "Cults of Dorastor," planned for
the near future, will feature chaotic cults. A "Cults of Lunar
Glorantha" (or some similar title), in outline/proposal form, will
feature Lunar, Orlanthi, and other cults of common PC cultures. In the
meantime, various cults will be revised and published in supplements
where necessary. For example, the Thanatar cult, featured in Shadows
on the Borderland, is revised and printed there, and Dorastor will
(probably) have a couple of full cult writeups.
I got my first dummy copy of Shadows on the Borderland Tuesday. Copies
should be in the stores soon. It looks swell. Send adulatory hosanas
and errata ASAP for Us Who Would Be Wise. Shadows is set in the River
of Cradles setting, BTW, not in Dorastor.
Dorastor: Land of Doom comes next, for June release, featuring:
histories of Dorastor and Talastar
a list of places to go and people to see when on tour in Dorastor
bijillions of lovable encounters with Dorastor's eccentric native sons
a campaign setting for beginning and mid-level characters in a Dorastor
setting (oh, sure, I hear you say... but it's true!)
handouts to confuse and annoy your players
big, pretty maps
After that, Strangers in Prax, for August release, an anthology
supplement constructed around some remarkable NPCs furriners. Mike
O'Brien gives us the Coders, agents of the Red Emperor, to daunt the
indomitable veteran Pavic PC. Mike Dawson gives us a nice Western
sorceror who has decided to settle in the Big Rubble, and is looking
for presentable barbarians for some manual labor. Jonathan Tweet
gives us a sea captain like Captain Ahab crossed with the Flying
Dutchman.
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From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder)
Subject: Armies-Mass Combat-RQIV
Message-ID:
Date: 11 Apr 93 10:20:00 GMT
On the question of army sizes. Roleplayer 30 from SJG has a section on
mass combat and army organization.
I see the Greek military organisation there are perfect for the
Lunars, Darra Happans, Pelorians, etc. It also postulates forces for
Athens and Sparta of between 4000 and 15000 each.
If we view Tarsh and Sylila as similar in size to Athens then the
Lunars may well field 7-8000 active troops in Sartar/Heortland/Prax.
Of course this will depend on your view and the likely opposition.
Lunar forces will not be so homogenous as the Greeks, with hill
barbarian auxiliaries and proto-feudal forces from Carmania etc.
That's not including non-humans and magical forces.
The Mass Combat article in Roleplayer 30 is in my opinion getting
since it can be used for RQ as it stands, just switch the 3d6
mechanics for 100%.
Casulaties. I would have said that Gloranthan war is alot more like
modern war. The magical casualties are frightening, the healing good.
Therefore many people are just fried in one go, the lightly wounded
pick up and fight again. However, healing in Glorantha is better than
ours is now, so the casulaties will fall in percentages.
It all depends on just how long zombies can fight, what use they
really are, whether spirits in battle can act as aerial assault, just
what effect calling MoonFire down has on battles.
Some of the BIG magic effects, crater attacks etc would disadvantage
close order troops and favour loose order. In fact the more you look
at the possibes the more you have to restrict the HUGE magics before
it becomes the Gulf War and not the Pelopennesian (did I spell that
right).
--------------------------------------------------------------------
tzunder@cix.compulink.com.uk
"Just what is the difference between a duck?"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: ade@insignia.co.uk (Adrian Brownlow)
Subject: Chaos
Message-ID: <1235.9304131341@piglet.insignia.co.uk>
Date: 13 Apr 93 06:45:59 GMT
Subject: Time:2:26 pm
OFFICE MEMO Chaos Date:13/4/93
>> From: markg@engrg.uwo.ca (Mark Gagnon)
>> Subject: Cults of Prax, Cults of Terror
>>
>> A question for RQ3 players: Has anyone ever had a Stormbull player contract
>> a nasty case of Chaos Feature? How would you referee it?
> Well, considering that every other Storm Bull would be able to Sense Chaos
> on the PC, if I were playing the character, I'd have him/her walk to the
> nearest SB temple and ask to be killed.
Well, considering that every other Storm Bull would be able to Sense
Chaos on the PC, I don't think he'd actually have to ask to be killed.
This actually happened to a Storm Bull character of mine. Because he
was an initiate in good standing he was not killed by the other
stormbulls. He was just sent on ridiculously dangerous missions
fighting chaos. I mean why destroy something just because it's
chaotic, when if allowed it will destroy more chaos on it's own.
I think this approach would be a little too thoughtfull for stormbull
and they would probably just kill the character.
A character my go off on his own to kill chaos in the hope of
redeeming himself. In any case he would probably go gaga pretty
quickly. What would you feel if you turned into the thing you most
hate? Pretty wierd I imagine..
Ade