Bell Digest v930419

Date: Mon, 19 Apr 93 17:15:19 +0200
From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: The RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 19 Apr 1993

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From: (Thom Baguley)
Subject: Re: Army sizes
Message-ID: <9304171350.AA02066@Sun.COM>
Date: 17 Apr 93 06:51:21 GMT

>The Roman Legion
>was 6000 men plus auxilaries, the there were a couple of dozen of these at the
>height of the Empire - though at that time it would have been about twice the
>size of the Lunar Empire c1600ST, maybe more - and an operating detachment
>would be from 1-3 legions.

A full strength legion was about 6,000 (most were 3,000 to 5,000). If
I remember my Roman history auxilaries usually numbered at least as
many as the number of Roman troops. Auxilaries would be local troops
(for Dragon Pass e.g.  from the Lunar Tarsh or even Sartar). Of course
the Lunars could mobilize troops much more flexibly because of
magically supported logistics and communications.


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Message-ID: <>
Date: 18 Apr 93 03:16:23 GMT


There has been some talk lately about using RQ Daily News as a means
of disseminating Errata for RuneQuest publications.  Here's such
errata for SUN COUNTY.  I have also included some Gamemaster Notes
(and stats for Kinope the River Nymph) for The River Ritual of the Sun
People, which were dropped from SU COUNTY for space reasons.


Sun County Leaders (p.8, 12 - 15)

The ransom figures for these characters should be expressed in Wheels,
not Lunars.  For example, Count SolanthosUs ransom is 1500W (30,000L),
not 1500L.

Vega Goldbreath (p.12)

Lady Vega's hoplite shield is iron, as its AP rating of 27 suggests.

Sun Dome Militia Units Chart (p.43)

A = Acolyte.

Two-handed Spear & Shield Technique (p.43 - 44)

The armour point value of shield used in conjunction with the
2-handed- spear-and-shield technique is not halved.  Thus, a hoplite
shield affords 18 points of armour protection to the left arm, chest
and abdomen of a templar employing this combat style, rather than 9
points as indicated.*

*Note that this is just my own unofficial ruling. If the rule where a
slung shield only gives half its AP protection applies in this
instance, there would be little point using this technique.  Why would
a Templar use it, if it only gives him one measly extra AP in a few
locations and he has to sacrifice all parries?  RQ2 didn't halve the
shield AP.

Jaxarte Visits Harpoon (p.56)

The final sentence of the boxed section reads: "His recollections are
quoted here (with the notes of his biographer, the Grey Sage Floriat
Fedora, in italics.)"

Pregenerated Characters (p.62 - 65)

All divine magic known by these characters is one-use except for
Delishi Koris (p.63), who knows a reusable Catseye spell gained as a
Yelmalio gift.

Lynnell Turri and Delishi Koris are both 19 years old, not 17.

As a Lhankor Mhy initiate, Skeelios Hemper requires a 90% skill in a language,
lore or Evaluate lore.  Raise his Read/Write Sartarite from 81% to 91%.

The Joust (p.73)

Chit 1 jousts Chit 2, etc.

The Wrestling (p.73 - 74)

All spirit magic except Befuddle, Demoralize and Disrupt is permitted
in this event, but it can only be cast after the bout begins.  It is
considered unsporting to win this event using an overt magical
advantage, and some opponents may agree among themselves not use magic
before their bout.

Around Town in Garhound (p.79)

The Lightbringer temple also includes a shrine to Odayla, the Hunter
god of the Orlanth pantheon; the hunter shrine at the Praxian cult
site actually honours their own hunter god, Foundchild.  The Solar
Temple has major shrines to Yelmalio and Ernalda, not Eiritha.

The Garhound lands are bounded by the Zola Fel river to the west, not
the east.

Place Your Bets Table (p.80)

Promidius's name is misspelt "Prometheus".

Stikklebrixx the Storm Buller (p.90)

Stikklebrixx has a Sense Chaos skill of 46%.

Sun County Ruins: The scholar (p.110)

The final sentence of this section reads: "If she's really impressed
with their performance, they may even get a copy of her thesis."

The Vampire's Crypt: Vampire Stats (p.115)

Divine Magic: Replace "River Eyes" (which is actually a spirit magic
spell) with another use of "Drown".

NOTE: Until it is clarified how Gloranthan vampires function, I have
used the RQ2 model, in which they suck POW and divine spells from
their victims.  Vampires probably have their own unique magic similar
to sorcery but requires POW (blood sacrifice) from their victims to


The River Ritual of the Sun People (p.40 - 41)

The initiate chosen to take part in the River Ritual is ideally an
unmarried male, who then enters into a ritual marriage with the nymph.
Theoretically, a female could undertake the quest, seeking to marry
Zola Fel himself, but this would be unheard of in the patriarchal Sun
Dome society, even for one of their Yelornan cousins.

The ritual requirements and difficulties of independent questers vary
with their origin.  In Prax, three such alternate origins are
probable: Storm worshippers, Praxian nomads, and Lunars.

Storm Worshippers: Storm worshippers have the best chance of success
of the independents, reenacting their own myths of alliance between
Storm and Sea.

The most common among Praxian storm cultists would be the marriage of
Rainbow Girl into the Storm pantheon; among Orlanthi, the god's rescue
and wooing of Huraya, a mist spirit.

Praxian Nomads: The river forces are hostile to the nomads, due to
Waha's pollution of the Sounder's River when he forced her to wash
away the remains of the Devil.  However, the river is friendly to the
Earth powers, as represented by Eiretha, and so while the quest is
difficult for them, it is not impossible.

Usually, some force of the river must be faced in Stage II.  If the
nomad offers gifts or aid, and avoids combat with it regardless of its
actions, he can succeed.  If he fights and wins, he is enacting Waha's
subjugation of the Sounder's River.  He can succeed in the main quest,
but will be considered a foe of the river and will be subject to the
geas of Stage IV.  The benefits he gains will be tailored towards
conquest: a Command spell for a type of river creature or undine, or
perhaps a plundered River Eye spell.  If the nomad fails to appease or
defeat the river force, he may not continue the quest.

Lunars: Because this ritual has certain similarities to river rituals
in their own lands, the Lunar priestesses are researching its secrets
in the hope that one day they can make a similar pact with Zola Fel to
help the many Lunar farmers who are settling in the valley.  The
Lunars will try to draw on their ties to the Oslir River to complete
the quest.  But in their conquest of Peloria they exterminated the
intelligent life of the Oslir, and so they are distrusted.  The Lunars
have been making friendly overtures to the Zola Fel cult, and even
plan to marry the river god into their pantheon.  They are also
staunch allies of the Sun Dome temple, so perhaps the quest is
possible.  The procedure is similar to that of the Praxian nomads, but
the penalty for failure at any stage is more severe.	Because this
ritual has certain similarities to river rituals in their own lands,
the Lunar priestesses are researching its secrets in the hope that one
day they can make a similar pact with Zola Fel to help the many Lunar
farmers who are settling in the valley.

Kinope the Nymph: Daughter of Zola Fel  

This naiad is a gentle soul, whose days are spent in blissful frolic
with all number of river creatures.  Farmers, travellers, nomads and
boatmen count themselves lucky if they are fortunate enough to spot
her plunging through the currents, for Kinope is a remarkable beauty,
in a fragile, waiflike way (illustration p.118 of RIVER OF CRADLES).
She often indulges wayfarers in playful banter and sports with them a
while.  But it is known that her usually ebullient mood can abruptly
sour if she is blundered into when she is at rest in still water, and
Kinope is not above swamping boats and driving off intruders with huge
undines.  The nymph can be seen the length of the river, but always
returns to the Sun County area for her ritual obligations in sea

She takes this task quite seriously, for the pact she made in distant
times with Count Arinsor brings benefits to her father and his river
folk.  Kinope drinks only ambrosia, the nectar of the gods which
bubbles forth from secret springs near the Zola Fel's headwaters.

Note that Kinope's abilities exceed those of a normal naiad, for she
is the daughter of a god.

STR 10		    
CON 17 
SIZ  08	
INT  15	   
POW 28	
DEX 17
APP 23	

Head 0/5
Right Arm 0/4
Left Arm 0/4
Chest 0/6
Guts 0/5
Left Leg 0/5
Right Leg 0/5
Fatigue: 31 (uses no FP when in the River)	
Dodge: 266%	
Hit Points: 13				
Move: 3/9 swimming

- No weapon skills -

Spirit Magic (140%): Shimmer-5; Heal-5 (effective on targets of any
species); Extinguish-1; Mobility-3; River Eye.  The naiad can also
automatically cast a Lantern spell of any intensity (up to current
magic points), gained from Count Skindilli Longlegs.

Divine Magic (140%): Breathe Air x4 ; Breathe Water x5; Extension x8;
Float x6; Mindlink; Purify Water x11; Sanctify x3; Soul Sight;
Spellteaching; Summon Undine x12; Summon/Ride River Horse x1

Skills: Ceremony 344%; Summon 299%; Hide in water 202%; Sneak in water

Courtesan 117%; Sing 153%.

Languages: Riverspeech 75%; Various local tongues 40%.

Magic Items: When in the River, the naiad can draw upon an additional
14 magic points to power her spells and abilities.  This is gained
directly from her father.

Special Abilities: For every 10 meters she is away from the River, she
loses a magic point.  Magic points cannot be regained until she
returns to the river.

The naiad can transform herself into an undine: SIZ is equal to 1
cubic meter for each magic point she expends.  She can also command
any number of incomplete creatures living in the river for an hour at
a cost of one magic point per creature.


I hope this is of some help.  Anyone who uncovers further glitches can get
in touch with me!

The Sun County Errata were also printed in TALES OF THE REACHING MOON
#9, and the Gamemaster Notes for The River Ritual have appeared (in
English) in the Swedish fanzine THOT #3, along with an entirely
unsuitable picture of Kinope.


Subject: What have I done?!
Message-ID: <>
Date: 17 Apr 93 12:05:10 GMT

Looks like I've stirred up a few hornet nests. Oh well.

Rather than reply to everyone individually, I think a general reply is
probably better.

I have never seen RQ1 so cannot comment on it's quality of production,
but I have just about seen all the RQ2 stuff available. Mike Dawson
said that the graphics for RQ2 was poor and maybe some of it was, but
then how come AH used the illustrations for Pavis from the old pack in
the Cradles pack. Have a look at Elder Secrets, now that is what I
consider useless illustration.  (I don't want to carry on with this
cos the quality of illustration has improved tremendously recently.)

Carrying on with presentation in general. The people writing for RQ
should have a look at Call of Cthulhu material. The Horror on the
Orient Express pack which cost I believe around 20 pounds over here is
amazing and worth every single penny. Boxed scenarios with handouts,
specific layouts, and loads of red herrings, clues etc etc are worth
buying because the enjoyment factor is so much more hightened. Have a
look at the Dungeon Master series of generic adventures. (I paid 5
pound for one of the boxes and I don't think I'll ever get value for
money like that again.)

Ok, so I'm beginning to ramble. AH should look at the old Pavis pack
and the way that was presented. You had 3 books.
	1 : City Guide , containing encounter tables, politics, number of 
		temples, numbr of priests/lords. Taverns,  militia, 
		political situation, cult write ups for Pavis, Flintnail
		and Lanbril (Included special equipment and poisons only 
		available through the Cult), and the History of pavis.
		(I might of missed something)
	2 : General Information : Hand it to the players and let them sort 
		out what was true, false and just plain inconceivable. 

	3 : The Episodes : Basically the adventures for the party. The cradle
		adventure is not "forgettable". It is you against the whole 
		lunar empire defending a Giant Cradle. Garath Sharpsword 
		puts in an appearance. It contains phrases like "When 
		enough of the party have died...". 
Pavis is an impressive supplement. That's why if anything it should be
released (Converted to RQ3 etc..) but one thing I would suggest is
supply floor plans for the Cradle. The point is, the work has already
been done, now all that is needed is a little converting etc. A quick
buck and some very happy customers.

Ok on to AH:

AH should in someways provide a way of getting hold of the errata from
them. They should not rely on people to find magazines that support
RQ. One thing that may help is the inclusion of RQ supporting
magazines/digests list with the RQ product with addresses to write to
to subscribe. That would be my main criticism with AH. The lack of
customer care or after sales support. Using this digest as a errata
distribution point is ludicrous. How big is this list?  Errata
distribution should either be done with the pack or should be
available from AH directly. That is called customer support. One thing
that might be considered is for AH to have a European office (They
probably do, so ignore this comment if they do.).

AH should try to support RQ in general not just their products. By
pure chance I was in a Virgin Games Store in London at christmas and
discovered Tales of the Reaching Moon, oh and Hereos. It would of been
nice of AH to tell me about various RQ specific sources of
information. The average RQist does not have access to internet and
relies heavily on the product they buy to provide information.

On Thief Cults :

A thief cult is a bit more than just a cult with a number of specific
spells. It also relies heavily on tools and non magical equipment.
Refering back to Lanbril in the Pavis pack (Yup I'm a fan of the old
Pavis pack) you had flash powder, thunder dust, garrote and other
specific skills (I don't have GoG to hand so can't confirm if GoG had
specific skills for thief cults.).  That was what I was getting at.
The availability of unusual items useful to your cult. Should be done
for all cults really.

On Cults in general :

GoG is ok for quick reference, but it needed to be written in the
format that is represented in the back of Cradles. This gives you a
feel as to how your character should behave. Not just lists of spells
available etc. It's the detail that makes a cult, not the number of

I like what is happening with the cults being written up in the
various packs comming out, but there is just ONE small problem. Is AH
expecting us to buy all the various packs just to get a reasonably
complete DETAILED picture of the cults we could expect to play and
come up against. Now eventually AH and the writers for RQ may come to
the conclusion that a single reference will be required, so go on,
somebody tell me when they will stop this faffing about and print
Cults of Terror and of course Cults of Prax for RQ3.

And to Finish :

AH : Don't whatever you do, destroy a product by changing it. Take for
an example Griffin mountain. Is that why it's been discontinued? Cos
it was ruined?

Ok that'll do for now,



Subject: Martial Arts
Message-ID: <>
Date: 17 Apr 93 14:19:02 GMT


Why, because it can allow you to special easily. I would suggest a
modification to this. A player must state they are going to use their
Martial Arts skill. They then must hit a particular location that they
must nominate. So must wait until SR 10 at 1/4 percentage (To simulate
attempting to hit somebody on a particular point on there body.) and
then have to also roll under their Martial arts skill. If they only
succeed in hitting then they roll location. If it is the location they
nominated then they hit normally . Else they miss completely. The
reasoning is that the attacker is concentrating
 on one point of the body only.



From: (Tom Zunder)
Subject: Various RQ2 Combat Magic Armies Communication
Date: 17 Apr 93 13:14:00 GMT

Okay let's stop beating up the Aldryami, {Troll phrase roughly similar
to; Okay let's stop beating about the bush..}

RQ2 was a lovely game, altho RQ1 was really the same. It was a bit
chunky, and it needed a lot of xtra bits from other books to get it to
a good state. It needed codifying and clarifying. It's previous
experience stank and some of the magic really creaked. Cults were all
the same, spirit magic was on open sale to all and sundry, everyone
eseentially was the same with differing Rune badges. The scenarios for
RQ were lovely, and eons better than the competition. They were also
quite system independent.

RQ3 was a good game buried in a huge set of rules. It had clunky bits,
and some of it really didn't work. The main problem was that it was

1:      Too big
2:      Had been cut off from it's background AND NONE BROUGHT IN TO
3:      {And this is the biggie} IT WASN't SUPPORTED!

RQ3 could have done fine if it had had a good and constant flow of
material. GoG was a lovely and useful product, and if it had been
accompanied with volumes like CoP or CoT then all would have been
fine.  BUT, altho Vikings and Ninja were good, there was no consistent
and focssed support of RQ. As the relationship between AH and Chaosium
crumbled, so did the product, thus we get the abortions of Elder
Secrets and Troll Gods.

NOW, AH has quite a bit to answer for BUT so does Chaosium. After all
they were the supplier of these goods to AH. The damage to RQ had set
in before Eldarad or Daughters of Dreckness. Whatever passed between
AH and Chaosium killed the game, and maybe {and please don't sue me
Greg} Chaosium just thought "sod it we'll concentrate on Cthulhu and

That is history.

AH and Chaosium are now friends. Sun County was good, RoC is a
fantastically good value supplement, altho the cults are a little

Ken R seems to be busting his balls to get a snowball of good material
out and I for one am looking forward to that snowball getting RQ back
into the arena of best selling games.

Remember the hobby is quite different now. the buzz games arecyberpunk
and dark future/horror. The standard of the competition is so much
higher. Put Big Rubble or RoC next to TSR or ICE or White Wolf or FASA
product and cringe. In many ways RQ is the academic end of the hobby,
just in a bit from Tekumel.

I hope AH/KenR/Chaosium revive RQ, and I think they're going in the
right direction. But remember, it's not a given. If no-one buys this
stuff AH will dump it, and quite rightly. I often think that AH got a
bad deal, after all I could have written them a good BRP-like FRP and
invented them a world and they'd had to have paid me only pence! Is
not Stormbringer really RQ in the Young Kingdoms?

Errata: Don't be silly. KenR was being frank and honest, all games
have errata. Do you want us to find out how many were needed for RQ2?
Oh no, you have the UK edition don't you? They're in the back!
Presumable when AH reprint RoC they'll be a bit better than that and
correct the text itself..

RQ is a GOD, but only one of many. Don't confuse frustration and
nostalgia for quality.

Armies: I think we don't know what Gloranthan war would be like, but I
guess it would be either less lethal (more wounds, less death) or
totally awesome (Crater maker = H Bomb, Summon Yara Aranis =
Biological Warfare).  Probably some battles are one and some the other
depending on the stakes involved.

Lunar=SovUnion: Yup, probably does. Let's avoid the analogies shall

DI in Battle: Gods must get taxed in battles and not be able to help
everyone, ie reduced DI for the rank and file.

Ploughing: Yes, you do get rough and hard ground, cast spell!

Errata Again: Yup, plaese post Errata to mailing list as a seperate

Hosannas: Actually I do expect to feel a few hosannas coming on at SoB.
(what a lovely acronym).

REPRINT: Reprint RQ2, huh! Reprint some of it tho, it has been a long
time and I wouldn't mind seeing the Companion upgraded to new RQ and
done again.  A straight reprint of Griffin Mountain with the stats in
new RW would be nice. BUT are most RQ buyers old hands? If they are
then this recycling and mixing is a better idea really.

Chaos: I will post some ideas on Chaos and getting IT. I did a simple
system for it in my game which I'll post. It is a derivative of SAN,
admittedly. Storm Bulls and Broos do not co-exist in Prax. Storm Bulls
are a minority and spend their lives hacking broo apart. Thus brro
worship evil gods to help them hack apart Storm Bulls! Remove Chaos
Feature is totally wrong for Storm Bull, it is not in the style of
this god to heal but to DESTROY!

Vampires: Read Steve Maurer's Lunar campaign basics, that has a nice
Vampire region in the Empire.

Seven Mothers: I wish to start my "The Seven Mothers are not the
Lightbringers for Chrissake!" campaign here. You hearing me, you lunar
cult writers?

                                                   How Illuminating!