Bell Digest v930420

Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 17:15:30 +0200
From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: The RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 20 Apr 1993

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--
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The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals
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---------------------

From: seh0@aberystwyth.ac.uk
Subject: Bits 'n Pieces
Message-ID: <9304191356.AA29169@deca.aber.ac.uk>
Date: 19 Apr 93 15:56:56 GMT

In reply to Rog, about RQ2 and the prevalence of Glorantha in the
starting gear.

The RQ2 BOXED SET (I still love boxed sets, better yet the boxed sets
with rulebooks inside that have a proper cover) contained the
rulebook, Apple Lane, Fangs and An Introduction to Roleplaying
(possibly the best introduction ever written, and it would be nice to
make a case for THAT still being in print).  The basic rulebook not
only included maps of Glorantha, Dragon Pass and Prax, but also had
the cults of Black Fang and Orlanth in it.  In addition to this, there
were the ever-present examples in the saga of Rurik the Restless,
which also served to illuminate Glorantha.  The book took many
opportunities to demonstrate the way in which Glorantha worked.  In
addition to this, we had Apple Lane sat right next to the rulebook,
and in this we had adventures set in Sartar, plus the short Tribal
Initiation.  Comparing this amount of detail of the world to the
amount of detail that was made available on Glorantha in RQ3....I know
which I prefer.  Plus, you say Pavis was a very shoddy piece of work.
I disagree (personal opinion of course), and would say that The Cradle
adventure is perhaps one of the best adventures ever written, and only
one of the party died in that, without any GM fudging....it just takes
intelligent play.  As for Plunder, I never used it to randomly
generate treasure located on a random encounter.  That is stupid.  I
did use it to base occasional adventures around, by taking a magical
object (not necessarily a major one) and then writing the adventure
around the existence of that item.  A useful source.  As for your list
of what is good, how about adding to that Griffin Mountain,
Runemasters, and, for that matter, Thieves World, which is still
available....?

Sorry to be seeming picky, it's not intended personally.  As for where
the best surf in Glorantha is, have a word with some friendly water
elementals, or alternatively, the fabled Stoneshell of Snakepipe
Hollow.  Then again, maybe venturing into Snakepipe Hollow isn't the
best idea in the world.

I commented before about the use of Ploughsharp 4......I had forgotten
about RQ3 having five minute limits on battle magic.  I operate on a
fifteen minute duration......on that basis, 16 points of battle magic
for an hour's worth of ploughsharp seemed to have some credibility
(no-one said it all had to be cast by one person).  Of course, I'd
imagine the real problem with it all would be the fact that the farmer
would have to spend around 5000L in order to learn the spell.  Not
many farmers would muster that much spare cash, I would have thought.t

Alternatively, a horse and some good, honest to god hard work may be
the general idea........

Lastly, I just want to make clear that I agree with Adam to the extent
that there does seem, in some cases, a disproportionate amount of
errata around for some products.  However, my main gripe is the
availability of this errata.  In all honesty, how many people have
access to E-mail networks and/or magazines that would be prepared to
publish this errata.  While being happier to see the errata address
mentioned in River of Cradles, surely the address to send off to for
errata on a particular product should be located in that product
itself, rather than having to buy another product to find that
address.  All AH products have a response card, do they not?  Well,
why not simply have on that card a comment to the effect that if you
put your address on the card and tick a box saying you wish the errata
despatched to you, then it will be done as soon as t the errata has
been compiled?

Anyway, this is getting way too long, I'll disappear off.

Stephen M Hunt 
Better Red Than Dead

---------------------

From: ade@insignia.co.uk (Adrian Brownlow)
Subject: Surfing Glorantha
Message-ID: <22893.9304191412@piglet.insignia.co.uk>
Date: 19 Apr 93 07:22:34 GMT


Mail*Link(r) SMTP               Surfing Glorantha
"Skyfall Girls" - The Beach Trolls - 1621

Well east shore trolls are hip,
I really love them rags they wear.
And the southern trolls with the way they belch
Drive us crazy while we're down there.
The north west trollkin warriors
Really make us feel up tight.
And the northern trolls, with their wooly fur
Are nasty in a fight.

I've been all round this great big world....
etc

---------------------

From: pearton@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za (Dave Pearton Biochemistry)
Subject: Stormbulls & Choas features// Tricksters, Chaos and illumination
Message-ID: <9304191544.AA13998@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za>
Date: 19 Apr 93 17:44:38 GMT

I'm sorry to have taken so long to reply to this thread but my mailing
system has been on the fritz.

Just a few thoughts on the Stormbull, chaos features debate:

1.  According to GOG "any creature possesing a chaotic feature is
automatically an initiate of Primal Chaos."  This I thing would rather
make it impossible for the poor Storm Bull to make any sort of
reparation/repair, especially as it then says "Initiation is
permanent: even if the chaos feature is someday lost, there is no way
to remove the chaos taint."  I think the poor dude has had it 8^(, if
he doesn't go out in a blaze of glory or suicide then I'm sure the
cult Spirits of Reprisal will have a little to say to someone who
becomes initiated into the source of all that they most hate!

2.  An interesting thought, would one be able to cast face choas on
the stormbull (or indeed anyone) who had inadvertantly gained a chaos
feature?  If so what would the effect be - face chaos is designed to
make a person stand his ground and fight any chaotic foe, even if he
would ordinarily have run.  Would thisgive the affected person the
courage/desire to suicide when he realised that he was that chaotic?
_________________________________________________________________

Now to start (Hopefully) a completely new thread.

I am interested in the relationship between Trickster's and chaos.  I
know that Eurmal as one of the Lightbringers was opposed to chaos but
unless all tricksters are aspects of a single God (which I feel is
unlikely due to the presence and subsequent "disappearence" of
Ratslaff from the Celestial court while Eurmal is also around).  Also
Trickster cults are pretty well ubiquitous.  Against this is of course
is the fact that the trickster "temples" work in unofficial harmony.
But I think that we can safely say that there are many tricksters
rather that a single trickster with many aspects.  But this does not
really affect the main question.

i.e.  Could there be a trickster with choas rune assosiation?  In GOG
the runic assosiation "varies", I assume the Disorder rune and
Illusion rune would predominate, but many others are also appropriate
such as Hunger for the glutton aspect, death for the murderer aspect,
fire for the firebringer aspect, and many others......  Thus I would
see no problem for there to be a trickster cult with choas
assosiations.  What do other people think?  And, more interestingly,
what form would such a cult take?  I have a few ideas, but I am most
interested in what others think ;-)

On a related note regarding tricksters and illumination, would it be
easier or harder for a trickster to become illuminated?  Seeing as
Tricksters already look at life from a different viewpoint to normal
people it would appear easier, but as they are extremely self-absorbed
and shallow would they be able to draw the deep insights required for
illumination?  Yet another paradox regarding tricksters, I love them
;-}

Just think a choatic, illuminated trickster (shudder)

Ah well, that was longer that I first thought - thank you for bearing
with me.

Yak

A Trickster still looking for that Blood to Beer spell!

---------------------

From: wroberts@magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William C Robertson)
Subject: I agree!
Message-ID: 
Date: 19 Apr 93 10:00:56 GMT

Tom Zunder recently typed his little fingers off!  And instead of
posting what I agree with it's easier (and shorter) to post what I
don't agree with.

>DI in Battle: Gods must get taxed in battles and not be able to help
>everyone, ie reduced DI for the rank and file.

I really wonder if they're taxed or not.  After all, as a lowly
mortal, you sacrifice a big part of your essence or atman for dinine
assistance.  Additionally, the gods live without time, so would they
really notice that they're getting many calls at the same time?  I
don't think so.

Also, who is Steve Maurer?  And where can I find his Lunar campaign
basics?

-Bill

---------------------

From: 100116.2616@CompuServe.COM (David Hall)
Subject: Revenants
Message-ID: <930419194809_100116.2616_BHB68-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 19 Apr 93 19:48:10 GMT

Hey! I've just discovered that I've got some errata for Sun County,
shall I go ahead and post them on the Digest? I've got some excellent
Sun County Writer's Notes as well...

---------------------

From: kenrolston@aol.com
Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 17 Apr 1993
Message-ID: <9304191643.tn36581@aol.com>
Date: 19 Apr 93 20:43:23 GMT

> In response to Adam (awr0@aberystwyth.ac.uk)
>  
Pardon me, Adam, if I paraphrase your criticisms:

1. Errors are a terrible thing, and an unreasonable burden upon the
paying customer.

Even professional game designers rarely have a clear sense of what
goes into publishing game. Why should fans have any clearer a sense?
The only way to get a concrete sense of how games are published is to
design one, then start a company to publish and distribute it. I do
not recommend this, and don't think the experience is particular
pleasant or enlightening.

One thing I've learned as a professional is that everything has a
price. Take for a moment the idea of your being willing to wait an
extra two weeks for a quality product. Ignore for the moment that this
begs the questions of whether 2 weeks significantly affects the
quality of the product, and whether the current crop of RQ supplements
are quality.

If AH published four supplements a year, that is an additional eight
weeks delay before our products start making money for us. That means
we have to add 1/6 to the current prices we charge for the books,
since we have to pay everyone during those eight weeks.

The current system of desperate blindtest and playtests does catch
most of the errors. It never catches all of them, and I am sick at
heart for each error that gets past ... basically because I can never
understand how i could possibly miss catching errors. It is a human
problem, that we make errors, but it still bothers me. I bless the
labors of my best testers -- Oliver Jovanovic and his game group, Mike
Dawson, and Stephen Martin -- for the splendor of their labors.

I think it is great that Mike O'Brien publishes and distributes errata
for Sun County. Not all of it is strictly errata so much as
clarification and catching typos and odd omissions, but I'd like to
see more post-publication commentaries by authors in the Digest and
Tales of the Reaching Moon.

I admire Steve Jackson Games and its policy of posting errata to the
network bulletin boards. I'd like to institute a similar policy -- but
at present I can barely keep up with our production schedule, and am
two months behind in correspondence.

2. RQII is swell, and should be reprinted. (Echoes also heard from
various others.)

I once thought it would be a good idea to reprint RQII. Unfortunately,
you'd have to reprint, at a minimum, the rulebook and three of the
best supplements (say, Pavis, Borderlands, Griffin Mt.) to make it
worthwhile to a new buyer.  And that would replace our entire RQIII
release schedule for a year. And who would buy it? The guys who've got
it already? The new buyers just waiting for the perfect new FRP
system? It just makes no economic sense.

I also argue that it makes no aesthetic sense, though i have some
sympathy with old-timers who love RQII. My home campaign uses RQIII by
the book, since we are a playtest center, but the other RQ campaign
I'm in is busily working on our own new version of RQ. I'm personally
interested in a RuneQuest Lite, and have a couple of interesting
aborted and flawed drafts already.

I recommend that the RQII fans get to work on their own variant RQ
Lite systems. That's how the FRP game grows -- fans adapting and
developing systems in their home campaigns. Unlike board- and
war-games, where rules are received from Upon High as Gospel, FRP
rules evolve in their user base. Most of us professionals started as
home kludgers.

I suppose it's possible that some could argue that RQII is a perfect
game -- though I doubt there'd be a large constituency for a
first-generation RPG. I do believe there is a justifiable constituency
for a simpler and/or faster-paced RuneQuest. It is not an easy design
problem, to retain the flavor and favored conventions while
streamlining the mechanical elements -- but I believe it is a
worhtwhile project.

I'm not going to recommend that AH reprint RQII in the conceivable
future. I wouldn't oppose -- might even support -- some attempt to
reprint it as a fan production along the lines of Tales of the
Reaching Moon -- but it would be a lot of work and a lot of money
spent to produce a product that would be difficult to market and sell.
As a labor of love, I can understand it, but as an aesthetic advance
for FRP gaming, it's hard to defend.

It's good reading and thinking about your comments on this. I
appreciate the comments of AH's detractors and defenders equally. I am
most interested in your votes at the cash register. We are doing our
very best -- sometimes, personally, more than I can stand to do and
have a real life -- and I personally have a guarded satisfaction in
the quality of the current supplements. I'm ever-so-happy to see all
the commentary and talk-gaming about Glorantha. It's a cool place, and
a true place, even though it never existed.

And in reply to the comment by someone with a spectacularly
unintelligible (to a network tyro) ID string of alphanumerics about
the ho-hum material in Sun County and River of Cradles:

The Garhound Festival is one of the best scenario settings ever
designed for RQ. I've always felt that RQ Glorantha scenarios have
been comparatively weak relative to the quality of the setting. I love
Borderlands, but it is best as an open-ended setting, with its
scenarios of modest charm. Some people adore the Cradles scenario. I
see it as fine storytelling rather than as a model of scenario design.

River of Cradles is essentially a reprint, and of course ho-hum to
folks who already have the RQII versions. The scenarios there are...
well, I can't judge my own work, but the contributions made by
playtesters were invaluable, and I think the explicit development of
Gloranthan themes as a structure to the sequence is a fine idea that
should be extended to other scenario sequences.

Ken Rolston, RuneCzar

---------------------

From: henkl@glorantha (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: book bindings
Message-ID: <9304200016.AA10004@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 20 Apr 93 04:16:29 GMT

> 
> > From: sogcity@aol.com
> > Subject: Response to Adam's "Flame"
> > 
> > Books can only be so big before they cost $40 or break their spines, or 
> > both.
> 
> There is a kind of binding called "lay-flat" binding.  It allows a (thick)
> book to be laid open and stay open without damaging the binding.  The
> computer book company O'Reilly and Associates is using this binding for
> all their books.  Their prices didn't go up after they switched to this
> binding.

I wish Chaosium had used this for King of Sartar.  I've read it once,
and the spine is basically ruined now, and I fear the book won't
survive a second reading.

---------------------

From: marks@slough.mit.edu (Mark S. c/o Tom Yates)
Subject: Hero magazine
Message-ID: <9304200435.AA13377@Sun.COM>
Date: 20 Apr 93 04:38:57 GMT

                     Holding out for a Hero

Some one had mentioned the now defunct Hero magazine. I thought you
all might find a listing of it's RuneQuest content useful.  This list
covers all the issues of Hero magazine that I own.

Volume One:

Number One: History of the Lunar Empire (part one)-G.  Stafford.
Runequest: A new face for an old friend (a description of RQ3) - G.
Stafford.

Number Three: Creepy Critters (Giant Insect stats)-S.  Petersen.
There is also a writeup of the Waertagi fastship and an index to
articles in Wyrm's Footnotes and Different Worlds.

Number Four: Wolfrunners (a scenario by Sandy Petersen) An expanded
cult description of Orlanth and Hykim & Mikyh.  (hey Mikyh, he likes
it :-) A preview of Vikings (with good info for people who do not have
that scenario pack) A short piece describing a vase that is inscribed
with a picture of some poor saps attacking the Lunar Empire.

Number Five: A page by Bruce Dresselhaus describing what it was like
playtesting RQ3.  A short piece presenting a RQ gambling system.
History of the Lunar Empire (part three).  An Errata section.

Volume Two:

Number One: An eight page article on the Ostrich Clan of Prax by Mike
Dawson.  Journey to Falderbash (an eight page scenario) and Gruug's
Cave (a sixteen page scenario) There is also a short bit about Hit
Points.

Number Two: A one page Gloranthan calender.  A modified Adventurer
Sheet.  Sugested modifications to fatigue, damage, sorcery, skill, and
shield rules.

Number Three: Black Sorcerer (scenario)

Number Four: An eight page article on shaman.  Three new sorcery
spells by Martin Crim.  Errata.  A silly piece on abstract elementals.

That's all I own.  AH still had copies of most of these back issues as
of last year.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
              Mark Sabalauskas-Marks@slough.mit.edu
                   ---------------------------
	"There is always more misery amoung the lower classes than
there is humanity in the higher."
							Victor Hugo

---------------------

From: eco0kkn@cabell.vcu.edu (Kirsten K. Niemann)
Subject: Clarification for Adam
Message-ID: <9304200437.AA06757@cabell.vcu.edu>
Date: 20 Apr 93 04:37:47 GMT

Adam, if you'll reread my comments, you'll see that I said that
 
ASIDE from the Cradle and (the in need of a revision) Balastor's
Barracks, that most of the scenarios in Pavis and Big Rubble are
pretty forgettable. [or something along those lines]
 
As I also repeated in a later post, I am in favor of reprinting the
Cradle, and even tried to get Ken to let me do the rewrite. He did not
bite on this idea.
 
I suggest that you (and other Digesters) state your reasons for
wanting the Cradle republished, so that you can convince him that it
should be done, and soon. If you really want to see it done, then send
him a good writing sample that will make him assign the project to
you. I think he has my dance card filled for the forseeable future.
 
Ken does read the Digest, though I am not sure he can get all of it
because America Online limits letters to a certain size. Henk, was
this problem addressed? Is that why some days there are 2 digests with
the same date?
 
I overstated when I suggested that all of RQ2 graphics were mediocre.
The perspective maps in Pavis/Rubble (whatever) were excellent. In
support of my statement, though, let me point out that the gorgeous,
two page perspective of New Pavis has some really dumb typoes in it.
That's the RQ 2 version.
 
I detect some strong sentiment for a compiled cults book, free of any
scenario material. Is this the case among the readership? Please think
carefully before answering--of course we all want whatever can be
produced at the current or higher quality level, but would you prefer
a redone or equivalent style book along the lines of Cults of Terror
or Prax? Moreso than one that includes full cult descriptions as part
of scenarios?
 
Here's an idea that just percolated out of my forebrain:

(Ken take note!)

What if a cults book included a small scenario for each cult writeup,
giving some cult NPCs, attitudes, etc, and a chance for the PCs to
interact with the cult in some way?  Say, 4-5 pages of scenario, and a
full cult work up.  What do you think?  

M >|<

---------------------

From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
Subject: RQ 2, 3, 4 ....
Message-ID: <9304171551.AA07891@Sun.COM>
Date: 17 Apr 93 08:52:13 GMT

>I suggest that you try and get hold of a RQ4 manuscript before you damn it.
>Forget RQ3, everyone knows that it was a mistake. But even so it was better in
>a lot of ways...I even like sorcery, well the idea if not the execution. 

>Cheers
>Rog.

I agree. I like sorcery - it adds something to Gloranthan magic that
was missing. It is just a pity that the RQ3 rules were silly in parts
(particularly for powerful PC sorcerors). RQ4 looks very good. Someone
mentioned that it made combat even more complicated ... that is true,
but many of the rules are optional or easily dropped. The new fatigue
and encumbrance rules are actually playable. The rules about actions
in combat begin to make sense, now. My main wishlist for the next RQ4
draft is to make a few areas a little clearer and to make the system a
little more modular.

Thom

    _/    _/  _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/  _/    Human Cognition Research Lab
   _/    _/  _/        _/    _/  _/     The Open University
  _/_/_/_/  _/        _/_/_/_/  _/      Milton Keynes MK7 6AA, U.K.
 _/    _/  _/        _/  _/    _/       Tel: +44 908 65-4518  Fax: -3169
_/    _/  _/_/_/_/  _/    _/  _/_/_/_/  Internet:T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk 

---------------------

From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder)
Subject: And another thing!
Message-ID: 
Date: 17 Apr 93 22:59:00 GMT

All this lethal and non-lethal damage. Long and short term etc.

How the hell are we going to keep track of it?

I mean it would be okay in Strombringer with just overall HP but with
all the hit locations?

I think this deserves a little more explanation as to how we can play
it without losing ourselves in numbers..

--------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        tzunder@cix.compulink.com.uk 
                                                   How Illuminating!
--------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------

From: mace@lum.asd.sgi.com (Rob Mace)
Subject: Re: Weather
Message-ID: <9304182053.AA04160@lum.asd.sgi.com>
Date: 18 Apr 93 06:53:48 GMT

Rog writes:
> Does anyone know where the best surf in Glorantha is?

How about riding Magasta's Pool all the way to Hell.  That should be a
pretty good ride.  Forget Hero Questing, it is time for Hero Surfing.

Rob Mace

---------------------

From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Storm Bull Sense Chaos
Message-ID: <01GX6YYPD9J69FRFXZ@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 19 Apr 93 22:16:27 GMT

The Storm Bull article that Roger Nolan referred to in 18th April's
DAILY NEWS is "Storm Bull Psychology" in TALES #8 "The Chaos Feature"
(not #6).

This article, by Simon Campey, is in my opinion, one of the best we
have published, and the kind of "rules" article we are looking for*.
Anyone want to have a go at writing how Humakt's Sense Assassin works,
and what psychological/physiological effects it has on the user?

*The emphasis of the fanzine is very much on Glorantha and Gloranthan
background, not rules.  TALES is not seeking new Alchemical rules
systems, Martial Arts variants, Sorcery fixes or new spells or runes
(except as part of a cult or sorcery sect).  That's what RQ DAILY NEWS
and DIGEST is for!  The more an article is linked to Glorantha, the
more chance it has of being accepted.  "Pendragon Pass" in issue #6 is
another example.

---------------------

From: marks@slough.mit.edu (Mark S. c/o Tom Yates)
Subject: Chaos, what is it?
Message-ID: <9304190425.AA28574@Sun.COM>
Date: 19 Apr 93 04:28:00 GMT

                       A Chaotic Interlude

I ran across an interesting question during last night's game.  What
makes a being chaotic?  No, I'm not asking a philosophical question
here.  I want to know what actually is needed to taint a person with
chaos.

Last night my player's attacked a chaos shrine in the Dilis swamp.
The Storm Kahn released a large Spirit of Law, commanding it to
destroy utterly the Evil High Priest (tm).  This started an argument
as to whether the human priest was a creature of chaos merely because
he belonged to a chaos cult.  Hahlgrim's actions in the sidebar to the
Malia cult write-up in COT suggests that lay-members, at least, are
not considered chaotic.  Do you think that initiation or ordination
makes one a being of chaos?  How about gaining a chaos feature?  Being
targeted by Pocharngo's corruption?  Playing AD&D?

Thank's in advance for your advise,

								Mark S.

---------------------

From: ade@insignia.co.uk (Adrian Brownlow)
Subject: Stuff & nonsense
Message-ID: <21299.9304190857@piglet.insignia.co.uk>
Date: 19 Apr 93 02:08:08 GMT


Mail*Link(r) SMTP               Stuff & nonsense
L.P.Williams@newcastle.ac.uk dribbles ....
> One final point RUNEQUEST TWO IS GOD

No it's not..... RQ players and GMs are 'god' - each campaign has its
own rules does it matter what you use. I tend to just chuck most of
the rules (and dice) out and just use the background. There is some
good background stuff from AH.  As rules go RQ2 was so full of holes,
I'm not surprised it sank. Yes RQ3 was even more w**k (especially the
British GW version) but check RQ4, it's getting together honest.

Rog writes :
> Does anyone know where the best surf in Glorantha is?

Yep, Skyfall lake all that falling water builds up some totally
radical breakers. You can check out the Zorak Zoran Surf trolls there
too. You wanna go check it out?

Clay Writes :
>> Adam writes:
>> "The point is, that AH expects to find errata in there products. "
>I write software for a living, but I expect to find bugs in my products once 
>in a while.

I sell and support software for a living and we never find bugs in our
product ;-J . Funny world isn't it.

---------------------

From: MAB@SAVAX750.RUTHERFORD.AC.UK (Mystic Musk Ox)
Subject: RE: The RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 17 Apr 1993
Message-ID: <9304190936.AA22031@Sun.COM>
Date: 19 Apr 93 09:35:00 GMT

>>I suspect that those tables have been frigged for player character
>>backgrounds, and don't necessarily reflect the 'real' population breakdowns.
>>I don't really have any idea on how real populations do break down into
>>percentages...

>  I don't think they've been mucked with too much, something like 40% 
>chance of being a Farmer? Doesn't sound like too exciting a career...
>(Especially not to my poor player who, given three chances at the table, 
>still managed to get Farmer as his family's occupation).

Well, I feel that 80%-90% Farmers would be nearer the real number.  I
used to give three rolls too on those tables, except you reroll until
you get three different backgrounds, then choose one. Or you could
just let people choose (but then no-one picks Farmer!).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

>	The Firearrow spell can be quite useful, cast on rocks etc., but has
>anybody ever used it on a flask of oil? With the thickness of the flask 
>determining howe quickly the missile is consumed. Depending upon the type
>of oil in the flask you could possibly produce a small explosion or just a 
>shower of burning oil. 

I think that the type of oil used in flasks etc is unlikely to be one
that will burn easily, ie it will be vegetable based, rather than a
petroleum based product (except maybe for Mostali). So, unless you
heat it up a lot, it won't burn very easily, and won't explode (but
then neither would a petrol flask).

I also have bad memories of D&D games where whole parties used to go
round firebombing monsters. They don't like it when the monsters start
doing it back...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>> I could go on about GoG and what a waste of paper that was,

>But I don't agree with this.  If we hadn't had all that broad (albeit shallow)
>coverage, we'd not know anything "official" about any of the cults that
>weren't in _Cults of Prax_ or _Cults of Terror_ [and we wouldn't have had
>interesting debates about whether or not Babeester Gor rune magic is gross or
>not :-)].  While I'd like to see long forms of many of the cults in GoG, it
>covered much less than half the names of Gloranthan deities that I had noted
>down.

Yes, I agree, I think GOG is quite useful. I have RQ1, RQ2 etc, but
due to lack of funds at the time was never able to buy Pavis, Big
Rubble etc.  For years, although I thought RQ was the best system (and
still do), I never played it because it was so tied in with Glorantha
AND there was very little information available. Also (heinous crime
it may be to say so) I was never too keen on Prax as a place to
campaign, and I STILL don't know enough about how the tribes operate,
or even what some of them are, to feel comfortable enough GMing them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>I've always wondered about the logic of barbarians likeing to go on
>>war parties or cattle raids. If only 10% died then it would only take 
>>10 years to kill off all the able bodied males (assuming it is not a 
>>geometric progression). Does this mean that in fact casualties from 
>>raids etc were very low and thus they did do a lot of raiding. Or was 
>>the number of raids low eg only every couple of years and we have 
>>been overdoing our estimates of barbarians willingness to fight. 
>>Comparisons to historical pre-fire-arm data would
>>be interesting if anyone knows any figures.
 
>  Um, you are assuming that nobody gets born?
 
10% losses a year is still rather high. I think that (as in most
combats, power struggles etc) actual losses would be fairly small, but
there is a lot of manoeuvering for position. Once one side gets in a
good situation, the others have to decide whether to fight or flee.
Most times they will give up, sometimes they will fight and take
losses.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Why not just present the info in formula manner?:
>   Agility: DEX + STR - SIZ - 10
>   Communication:  INT + POW/2 + APP/2 - 20
>   Knowledge:      INT + POW/2 - 15
>   Magic:          INT + POW + DEX/2 - 25
>   Manipulation:   INT + DEX + STR/2 - 25
>   Perception:     INT + POW/2 + CON/2 - 20
>   Stealth:        DEX + INT/2 - SIZ/2 - POW/2 - 5

>In all cases, round towards 0 (so -1.5 becomes -1, +3.5 becomes 3)

Excellent (and simple) idea. Wish I'd thought of it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------

From: DO9EA00@sysa.computing-services.manchester-metropolitan-university.ac.uk
Subject: Armies and some preactical advice
Message-ID: <9304191100.AA26438@Sun.COM>
Date: 19 Apr 93 09:57:50 GMT

Armies, their movement and mechanics
====================================

DISCLAIMER: Although I am not an expert in anyway on Ancient armies, I
have had a substantial amount of practical experience of and in C17th
armies. I am a member of the Sealed Knot Society (the society of
Cavileers and Roundheads) and together with 6,000 others engage in the
re-enactment of English civil war battles.

Armies marched at a much slower speed than today forces, a pace of 60
beets per minuet was used as this allowed soldiers to march long
distances over relatively rough terrain.

Each unit is organised in terms of a blocks, each block has its own
block officers, captains etc who command the block. Their orders deal
at a very low level with movement, formation, firing, melee etc. Such
commands are at the level of individual actions, eighteen orders are
required to fire a musket volley, though h in practice this would be
greatly reduced to about five or six.  In the gloranthan context I
believe that a similar level of activity is not only applied to
missile troops but also the magicians. ie

Make ready your bows,
Site your focuses,
Prepare your Multi Missile,
At the enemy to your front present,
draw back your bow strings,
give fire.

Such orders are reinforced by drummers who beat patterns to represent
each movement and the final command may be indicated by the lowering
of a sword, officers batten, partisan etc...

In addition each unit stands in ranks and files according to the seniority of
the troops in the unit, at the end of each file is a corporal  with
seargents at the corners of the block.  In addition the seargent with the
highest seniority stands at the top left corner of the block and is called
the Elder Sargent.

A company may be made up of one or more blocks and regiments are
further made up of several companies.  Each adds an additional layer
of command and it is important to note that each company has only one
purpose, missile, sword, horse, artillery etc...

Orders are passed about the field by means of runners. Such persons
are lightly armed and rush quickly about the field between generals
and block officers giving orders.  This means however that orders may
be miss interpreted by block officers who so wish it without immediate
censure and a general may often find himself/herself wondering why a
particular block is not acting according to orders or seems to be
showing a significant amount/lack of initiative.  Runners are not
often attacked because a large well formed unit would have to become
disordered to conduct such an attack. Any attacks on runners are
likely to come either from light manoverable troops or specially
trained sharp shooters.

Information comes to armies outside battles again by means of
messengers and runners. Perhaps particularly important messages may be
sent by means of mind link or prepared teleport. But often carrier
birds or avian famillias are as likely to be used.

Local information is obtained by scouting the surrounding area but
even so enemy armies (of substantial size) have often passed within 2
kilometers of each other without detection.

Each regiment (and also larger companies) would I believe have an
attached small group of dedicated healers and medic's but more mundain
healing is likely to be self applied (why else to soldier careers
provide first aid and healing spirit magic?).

Casualties provide as much of a shock to morale as to anything else a
unit which has suffered 10% casualties will be badly dissorderd, have
lost much of its command structure (at least in terms of seniority)
and the individual soldiers will suffer bewilderment and
disorientation. Most companies have a firm belief in their own ability
and do not believe that they can be beaten.  Once this is gone rout
and retreat are inevitable.

Recognition on the field is difficult with each company and regiment
wearing different clothing and carrying different standards and
symbols.  These are of paramount importance since they give disordered
troops a rallying point.  Troops are nearly always disorganised by
close (ie hand to hand) melee. A significant coup is obtained if an
enemy unit is able to capture the standards and insignia of another
unit and such attempts often resulted in the bloodiest combat.  During
the ECW their are plenty of recorded instances of friendly units
attacking each other because recognition failed. This situation is
obviously improved by the wearing of religious insignia but how for
examples is a company of Humakti swords going to tell the difference
between themselves and a company of Yanna Faltarnis swords in the heat
of battle or worse between the Trolls fighting on their side provided
by Cragspider and the unit of Blue moon trolls fighting for the
Lunars?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Ingram     .
(though which king I am not prepared to specify)

---------------------

From: awr0@aberystwyth.ac.uk
Subject: oncernig a comment of mine.
Message-ID: <9304191247.AA22580@uk.ac.aber.fronta>
Date: 19 Apr 93 14:47:02 GMT

I mentioned the fact that errata is always to be found in the various
AH packs and was promptly flamed for implying that AH could produce
100% perfect goods.
	
Ok, so I was wrong to have suchh a presumption, but I still think AH
should provide some form of after sales support.

I noticed that AH also are singing the praises of TORM. That's great,
but are they now going to rely on TORM for release of the errata.

Ok onto another problem. RQ4. We play RQ2 with a few modifications.
Reasons are it's simple straightforward and doesn't attempt to
complicate itself. combat is a long process as it is without making it
even worse. Personally, I feel that RQ should be moving back towards
the simplicity in RQ2 with the modifications necessary to remove the
various bugs and the addition of new concepts (ie Sorcery).

BTW I hope sourcery is re-written. I liked the ideas behind Runic
Sourcery although even that seemed too complicated and allowed people
to become overly powerful quickly. RQ is one of those nice little
games where no matter how hard you become, somebody can always get
lucky. Runic Sourcery was on the right track, using the runes present
within glorantha rather than making up some invisible god etc etc . I
like the idea of manipulating the raw elements of Glorantha.

Anyway I'm rambling and I've got to get back to work.

Adam

---------------------

From: DO9EA00@sysa.computing-services.manchester-metropolitan-university.ac.uk
Subject: Dragon Newts as PC's
Message-ID: <9304191314.AA06569@Sun.COM>
Date: 19 Apr 93 12:10:56 GMT

Dragon Newts as PC's
=====================

Master Lord Prince of the Red Star has asked me to say a few words on
this subject. As a some time Dragon Newt and adventurer he expects all
who come into his presence to be awed by his presence and glory and
since mere mortals cannot be expected to cope whith this he sends a
blind folded human slave emissary before him into any chamber he is
about to enter.  This terrified slave proclaimes to all that his
master is come and they should cover their eyes lest they be blinded
by his majesty.

MLP asks me to also point out that he is an avid supporter of
something called Arsenall Football Club (though he is not sure what
this is) and he prefers it if his player consumes several bottles of
Red Wine before play commenses as he feels that his persona and
personality are more correctly portraid in this case.