From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 22 Apr 1993, part 2 This is the automated Daily RuneQuest Digest. Send submissions only to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the ~Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying. Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM. -Henk Langeveld -- Send Submissions to:Enquiries to: The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. Maintainer: Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM --------------------- From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley) Subject: Firearrow Message-ID: <9304211308.AB19874@Sun.COM> Date: 21 Apr 93 05:50:28 GMT >> The Firearrow spell can be quite useful, cast on rocks etc., but has >>anybody ever used it on a flask of oil? >I think that the type of oil used in flasks etc is unlikely to be one that >will burn easily, ie it will be vegetable based, rather than a petroleum >based product (except maybe for Mostali). So, unless you heat it up a lot, >it won't burn very easily, and won't explode (but then neither would a petrol >flask). My interpretation of the rules is that the firearrow consumes the object and replaces with a missile composed of magic fire. The material doesn't burn (e.g. how could a rock burn?). An alternative would be to pour oil or alchohol over someone and then shoot a firearrow or cast ignite on them. Nevertheless, finding readily combustible oil may be tricky ... Thom --------------------- From: henkl@glorantha (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland) Subject: Re: We are lucky Message-ID: <9304211327.AA13732@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM> Date: 21 Apr 93 17:27:42 GMT > > Hi all, > > I would just like to say a few things concerning RQ and Glorantha. [ ... ] > Thank you one and all for your time, effort and passion. Thanks Jarec. And my thanks to all committed subscribers and submitters who are making this possible. --------------------- From: SPB1@vms.bton.ac.uk (Ghost Dancer) Subject: Scenarios. What makes a good one?? Message-ID: <9304211520.AA06626@Sun.COM> Date: 21 Apr 93 15:19:00 GMT What makes a good scenario? Always a difficult question this, obviously plotline and depth are important as is the characterisation of the NPC's involved but what makes a truly great adventure? Over recent days/weeks many people have listed the adventure that they have loved/hated and would/would not like to see reprinted, but no real agreement has been reached by all sides as to what was/is the all time classic adventure. Well in my opinion we will never see it in print. Why? Well to answer this question I think we need to look to literature for an answer. Some authors are highly skilled at writting a great story but never make it great, whilst others are highly acclaimed with a less polished skill. The reason, IMHO, is the use of not just a recurring hero but a recuring villain. Look at Sherlock Holmes, by far his best adventures where those where he yet again had to face his arch rival Moriarty, Doctor Who has the Daleks, Elric has Arioch. In this way we get to see both sides of the coin, we always hope that the enemy will be beaten but secretly we want him to return another day. In terms of game play the arch enemy is an important plot device that is almost a must to keep a campaign running. It need not be a person of course, the Lunar empire will do nicely, but give the players a chance to say "So we meet again Kagar Velt" and they will thrive. Of course the villain must not have to easy an escape and must die or be retired eventually, but by then a new antagonist should have come on the scene and of course the villain must grow and gain skills just like the players to keep them guessing. In my campaign a Lunar Trickster is the main villain, time and again he has outwitted the party through guile and magic rather than brute force. Everywhere they seem to turn he is there with a new set of hench men and a new scheme to bring Chaos to society. So how do you write a recuring villain into a published scenario? Well you can't, it must be up to the GM to adapt to fit. This can be quite easy, often the simple inclussion of a behind the scenes influence is sufficient, why are the Trollkin raiding the local farms? Why have a lot of rich homes in Pavis suddenly been robbed and only Golden goblets taken? With a bit more work almost any scenario can be changed, when I ran the Garhound contest my trickster was there running a gambling ring, he had taken steps to fix the contest as well of course. As to published works I must say that I think recent scenarios are better in terms of adaptability for whilst works like the Cradle (please reprint this it's a classic event in Gloranthan History even if you don't run it) are rich in detail they are rather stiff in terms of their time line. I agree with Ken Rolston that Garhound is possibly the best adventure setting to date, it gives you an event around which you have free rein. The adventurers can take part, save the day, foil the evil plot, escort the rich patron etc... and you can replay this every year from a different angle to your hearts content. I can only await with bated breath SoB and the other packs due out this year. Glorantha is starting to reenter its golden age and I want to be there but lets have less short adventures for starting players and more adventure locations that the players can interact with. ._ /! \ Alternative /-!-/ Realities Jarec / ! \ Games Club e-mail: SPB1@VMS.BTON.AC.UK --------------------- From: MILLERL@WILMA.WHARTON.UPENN.EDU (Loren J. Miller) Subject: rules and the daily Message-ID: <9304211559.AA13451@noc2.dccs.upenn.edu> Date: 21 Apr 93 15:59:00 GMT trystro!rune@Think.COM (Peter Maranci) wrote: > Rather than recapitulate the many comments from previous posts, > I'll just throw this out: I know that others have already said this, > but we're getting *way* too involved with RQ rules here. From what I've Watch your mouth, Peter. You and other people who play in Glorantha may think that the focus of this group should be discussion of the world of Glorantha, but I don't agree. I don't play in Glorantha, and though I may at some time in the future presently my only connection to this group is the rules. If this is not the place to discuss rules then I don't have any reason to participate. I can understand why TotRM doesn't want rules articles, it's an editorial position based on the personal preference of the editor. However, this is NOT an edited zine. Rules in. > seen and heard, RQIV may be a mass of rules resulting in a book larger > than any other system in existance. To move from the beautiful self-contained > simplicity of the RQII Red book to the impending mammoth rules of RQIV > seems backward, to say the least. My tirade aside, I'm not a fan of big rules games. I like discussing RQ rules, but not multiplying them. My greatest fear for RQ4 is that it will be more unwieldy than Rolemaster. With the combat rules and other extensions, I think it's headed in that direction. whoah, +++++++++++++++++++++++23 Loren Miller internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu S sign lists littles what wetland received in phire bonuse --1M Monkeys --------------------- From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Entropy needs no maintenance) Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 21 Apr 1993 Message-ID: <01GX9MOXPU5U001M8A@UG.EDS.COM> Date: 21 Apr 93 01:52:54 GMT Cult Books & TRM.... MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au writes:- >> I think this is an excellent idea, and one we have in fact tried in ToTRM >> already: The Spirit Cult of Ulforg - "Stony Bones" in issue #8; The Hero >> Cult of Revenant - "Niall's Revenge" in issue #9. It would have been a lot better if the cults had been even vaguely Gloranthan, rather than Games Orkshop Chaos Deth Spiky bits retreads.... Heck, even the Indlas Somer & Gestetner joke cults in the old DiffWorlds were more use [especially as the surf thread would benefit from the Indlas Somer cult....] --------------------- From: jason@insignia.co.uk (Jason Proctor) Subject: Hit the Beach Message-ID: <14659.9304211704@piglet.insignia.co.uk> Date: 21 Apr 93 10:14:40 GMT Subject: Time:5:56 pm OFFICE MEMO Hit the Beach Date:21/4/93 > Surf Stoneshell of Snakepipe Hollow Let's hope this week's episode of Heroes Get Buggered for Beer Money takes us up near there. Listening Ade? BTW Rog after last week's total fiasco we're tied up lying face down in the dark after a run-in with bolshie newtlings, bionic trollkin and nasty armoured big bad guys. And the week before, well.... Oh and January's playing as well now. Her starting character is substantially more competent than most of the "experienced" ones. > no giants are gonna keep us off the beach OK, you sort the giants, we'll hit the waves. On second thoughts, perhaps, we'll hit the water, Mr Colin "Oops fumble again" Yelmalio Hero can take the bad guys out. > sysa.computing-services.manchester-metropolitan-university.ac.uk Now that's one industrial grade internet address. Is that Manchester Poly to everyone else? czeers Jase --------------------- From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder) Subject: Various RuneCzar RoC Cult books Cradle RQ Companion Heroes Message-ID: Date: 21 Apr 93 20:40:00 GMT Sorry about the abbreviated version! Various RuneCzar It's nice to see ken active here. Now we need Greg S on Internet! Heroes Could you say which back issues are worth buying? ie some of it may be crap. Ostritch Riders exclded of course. Scenarios I'd like to see more stand alone and quite short scenarios like Apple lane and Snakepipe. I mean in length not in content. Does AH have a view on that? Cult Book I too am concerned that cults are becoming dotted around the place and not centralised. My idea of heaven is GoG, Cults of Prax and Sartar, Cults of Lunars, Cults of Chaos, Cults of Pamaltela. RQ2? I'm sorry but why reprint it at all? It wasn't that good. RQ Lite How lite? I too would like to play a quicker version of RQ. Actually it's the combat that's unwieldy and RQ4 looks worse not better, BUT I also have complex days and then I like all the extra rules. Why not do what SJG did and have Basic and Advanced Combat? Invisible God as an Invention? Is it being implied that malkion was invented to explain RQ3 sorcery? I suspect not this being GS home territory. I would guess that Malkion is in fact the Xtian god tho and GS wasn't worried too much about religions at first. -------------------------------------------------------------------- tzunder@cix.compulink.com.uk How Illuminating! -------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- From: wroberts@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William C Robertson) Subject: GoG and spirits of retribution... Message-ID: Date: 21 Apr 93 13:47:22 GMT Burton Choinski writes... >Now, had there been some sort of "behavior guidlines", these two would not >have picked Humact, but perhaps taken Storm Bull. I clamped down HARD on >them after this, telling them what future Humacti can and can't do. In theory, I agree, but I think that the emphasis is wrong. I spent a lot of time telling my players what they *could* and *couldn't* do as members of cult X. But I've changed my mind. It's not *can* or *can't*, but *should* or *shouldn't*. That's what makes pious worshippers, and that's what cult spirits of retrubution are for. Spirits of retribution are MISSING from GoG, that is one of it's biggest flaws. <----- Hey Ken, this is a hint! Now this case (the two sleezebag humakti) IS a bit excessive (although amusing). Whether or not these two would have ever been initiated into Humakt is questionable, but had other Humakt worshippers found out about the scumbags' activities they would have worked to put a stop to it, and had their crimes been serious enough then it's time to bring the cult spirits of retribution after them. So, I agree with both sides of the argument. Yes, GoG is useful for quick reference, and if you have time to give your NPC's detail then it's great for adding spice to a campaign. However, the longer cult writeups are better for players becuase it gives them an idea of how they *should* act, and fills them in on Gloranthan myth legend and lore at the same time. Adding my own 2 cents, I think that it's important to place too much importance on cult guidlines of behavior. Mr. Robertson has now stepped off of his soap box... --------------------- From: carlf@Panix.Com (Carl Fink) Subject: RQ4 Message-ID: <199304212127.AA09097@sun.Panix.Com> Date: 21 Apr 93 13:27:20 GMT Peter Maranci (trystro!rune@think.com) writes: > Rather than recapitulate the many comments from previous posts, >I'll just throw this out: I know that others have already said this, >but we're getting *way* too involved with RQ rules here. From what I've >seen and heard, RQIV may be a mass of rules resulting in a book larger >than any other system in existance. To move from the beautiful self-contained >simplicity of the RQII Red book to the impending mammoth rules of RQIV >seems backward, to say the least. No. It should be just about the same size as RQIII. For one thing, we intend to cut quite a bit of the RQIII Gamemaster's Book. Oh, and there'll be no need to reissue any supplements for RQ4. One of the main goals of RQ4 was to make RQ3 characters work in it with as few changes as possible. Only shamans and to a lesser extent sorcerors will need any changes, and they should be easy changes. > For those who *must* have some rule content: am I the only one >who feels that Armoring Enchantment and Strengthening Enchantment must >go? They make very high armor and hit points much more common than under >RQII, and really change the feel and balance of power of the game. Such >abilities should be gained through HeroQuesting -- or at the least they >should be made much more expensive. One AP or HP for each point of POW >would be reasonable. Well, that's one thing you'll like in RQ4, then. -- Carl Fink carlf@panix.com C.FINK4 (GEnie) "If you can't laugh at yourself, then you can bet that everyone else is doing so." - Ed Johnston --------------------- From: shadow@cubenet.sub.org (Alexander Siegelin) Subject: RQ II (again :-) ) Message-ID: Date: 22 Apr 93 00:01:26 GMT Greetings everyone, first of all I wanted to greet everybody on the Daily. I'm fairly new here (I have subscribed only about 2 weeks ago) and am following the discussions here with very great interest (and wading through the 1.5 MB of accumulated Digests :) ). I've played RQ III on and off for a few years now and I'm still trying to comprehend how RQ should be really played. Until recently I always wondered why the game was titled RuneQuest when the only thing in the Books about Runes was a table detailing wich Runes stands for what. Then was the matter of Heroquesting. What is Heroquesting, what is the purpose of that etc. thanks to some excellent articles in ToRM and some stuff out of the Digest I now got a rough idea what that stands for. But what are Rune - Priests - Lords - Talons etc? How do you become one? I didn't find a single word about this matter in any of the RQ III stuff (I now own nearly every supplement for RQ III). What is the difference between Runemagic and Divine Magic. This seems to be the same (or nearlly so) or not?. There are also some peculiar differences between the RQ Deluxe Box and the german Book Edition (I'm living near Munich, Bavaria). For example in the Deluxe Box every sorcery spell has a duration of 5 minutes (not using the duration skill) while in the german edition there is always a different "base" duration for every spell. Also until recently I didn't realize that the Cults are the central point of the whole world of Glorantha. Without being initiate to a Cult you have no chance whatever of becoming a Rune - Priest ... Everybody on this group seems to own all the RQ II supplements so you all seem to have no problems at all with that but I've been unable to locate any of that (no wonder after 11 or so years since first publication :) ). I'm absolutely fascinated by Glorantha and think it's one of the most well built Fantasy worlds ever published so I'd like to immerse myself more into it. But at the time this seems to be impossible without knowing the old Supplements so I'll keep on guessing how it should be played. Another matter I'd really like to know more about are Ogres. There isn't any mention of them apart from the short one in the Bestiary and one or two pages about Cacodemon in Elder Secrets. Has any one more about them? Well these are my jumbeld thoughts for today. I hope you don't have too much difficulty sorting them out :-) Alex ------------------------------------------------------------- Alexander Siegelin Usenet/Internet: Tel.: ++49-89-7938711 Shadow@cubenet.sub.org FAX: ++49-89-72262671 ------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- From: apardon@vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon) Subject: RQ IV suggestion (formules) Message-ID: <9304220716.AA11616@is2.vub.ac.be> Date: 22 Apr 93 08:16:30 GMT > From: burt@ptltd.com (Burton Choinski) > > I recently had the fun time of helping two new people make characters. As > I rattled off the primary, secondary and negative stats for the skill modifiers, > their eyes glazed over and I got "huh?" looks. > > Why not just present the info in formula manner?: > > Agility: DEX + STR - SIZ - 10 > Communication: INT + POW/2 + APP/2 - 20 > Knowledge: INT + POW/2 - 15 > Magic: INT + POW + DEX/2 - 25 > Manipulation: INT + DEX + STR/2 - 25 > Perception: INT + POW/2 + CON/2 - 20 > Stealth: DEX + INT/2 - SIZ/2 - POW/2 - 5 > > In all cases, round towards 0 (so -1.5 becomes -1, +3.5 becomes 3) > -- Burton > Although I think the idea of trying to put things in formulas is nice there is something wrong with the way you have organized things. Take a person with INT 11 POW 9 and one with INT 10 POW 9. According to your formulas they get a bonus of 11 + 4.5 - 15 = +0.5 and 10 + 4.5 - 15 = -0.5 respectively. Rounded to 0 gives 0 for both. But I was under the impression that under the rules all things being equal a change in a primary attribute always reflects in you skill modifiers. P.S. Rounding the other way doesn't work either because then your modifiers would differ by 2 while the attribute differed by only one. ======================================================================== Antoon Pardon Brussels Free University Computing Centre 02/650.37.16 ======================================================================== --------------------- From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake) Subject: Re: Chaos Taint Message-ID: <9304220220.AA11018@cs.uwa.edu.au> Date: 22 Apr 93 07:24:30 GMT I think that it states somewhere that Lunars are considered tainted with Chaos only if they have had a chaotic spell (like 'Chaos Gift') cast on them, just being in a chaotic cult is not enough. I tend to think that being tainted with chaos is a matter of degree, as well. Sense chaos will detect anything with a chaotic feature easily, but something like a Lunar who had Chaos gift cast on them years ago will only give them mild feelings of unease. Of course, higher skill in sense chaos makes it more sensitive. Dave Cake --------------------- From: henkl@glorantha (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland) Subject: Re: From: Tom Zunder Subject: Runezcar... Message-ID: <9304220748.AA24792@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM> Date: 22 Apr 93 11:48:49 GMT > > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 93 20:40 GMT > From: Tom Zunder > Subject: Various RuneCzar RoC Cult books Cradle RQ Companion Heroes > To: runequest@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM > Reply-To: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk > Message-Id: > Content-Length: 1489 > > It's nice to see ken active here. Now we need Greg S on Internet! Greg has access to the net, but he does not have the time to read the current volume of the RuneQuest Daily. Let alone to comment on it. I forward some things now and then, like this message... He asked me to forward a comment on the Shaman rules in RQIII, though: The Shaman rules *were* playtested, but not enough. --------------------- From: mace@lum.asd.sgi.com (Rob Mace) Subject: Becoming and unbecoming chaotic Message-ID: <9304220813.AA08024@lum.asd.sgi.com> Date: 21 Apr 93 18:13:13 GMT Here are some thoughts on the recent line on becoming and unbecoming chaotic. First, I think it should be a very rare occurrence to have a chaotic feature forced upon you. Enough chaotics want more features enough that most feature sources would be used up. They should also be rare for game balance purposes, from the standpoint that they are tough to remove. As far as getting rid of them I don't think that just any old DI should be capable of it. I believe that for a DI to be capable of removing a chaos feature, the god who is granting it should have special powers for destroying chaos, not just for fighting it. None of Storm Bull's spells are actually targeted at directly harming chaos so I would not allow his DI's to remove a feature. I might allow Humakt's DIs to remove a feature based on his ability to sever ties. (By the way I forget where, but remember Greg stating that a DI could not remove a feature.) Hero Quests should be able to remove features. Here is a basic out line for a Storm Bull quest for removing a chaos feature. - Go to Storm Bull. - Storm Bull stomps on you until you have been pounded way beyond mush. - Spend a long time in this state as the chaos leaches out of you. - Chalana Arroy comes along and does her best to put you back together. - You might not be put back together as good as you were before the ritual, but then Storm Bull might take a liking to you and grant you some sort of a boon. I would probably allow a Storm Bull DI to accomplish the first step above of sending you to Storm Bull. ("Oh mighty Storm Bull please stomp the chaos out of me.") Occasionally there should be special powers that can remove a chaos feature. The special river power in RoC is one such case. In the campaign in which I play one of my heros has gained such a power. On the Hill of Gold quest he defeated Zorak Zoran and reclaimed Fire. He gained the special power of the Cleansing Flame. It was a power lost during the Greater Darkness. (I still have not figured out why my character gained it as it was not a power that Yelmalio ever had. There is a reference to the power in the start of the Moorgarki cult write up in Troll Gods.) The Cleansing Flame will cause a chaos feature to burn up into nothingness. However this is not the most pleasant of things for the possessor of the feature as they will take damage from the fire until it has burned up all the chaos. This could kill the one that is to be saved. I hope this is useful, Rob Mace --------------------- From: ABEAN@GEEL.DWT.CSIRO.AU (Andrew Bean) Subject: Chaos, Tricksters and Lay membership Message-ID: <930422195006.20c09072@GEEL.DWT.CSIRO.AU> Date: 23 Apr 93 05:50:06 GMT Here is something I posted to rec.games.frp.misc yesterday on what makes a creature chaotic: I think the answer may be to regard the question as really being made up of two parts. There is the problem of being tainted with chaos physically or a creature can have a chaotic attitude. This allows Greg Stafford's comment that one can only become chaotic voluntarily to make sense with c Corruption spell giving a character a chaos feature temporarily but still leaving a chaos taint behind. Thus lay members of chaos cults would not necessarily be chaotic as they as they are only giving worship to the Chaos god temporarily, probably for protection. Initiates and other higher ups are chaotic because they have willingly embraced the philosophy of a chaotic god and taken it as their own. Being born with a chaos feature would predispose a creature to to being a chaotic. However I would suggest that depending on the society the creature was born into would affect the outcome. Likewise with Broos, Scorpion Men, etc. They are born within Glorantha and thus are creatures composed of law but since the vast majority get born into chaotic soccieties worshipping chaotic gods they end up being chaotic, even though they only have a small chance of possessing a chaotic feature themselves. If a person gets hit with a Curse of Thed, etc. spell and resists but still gets hit with a Chaos feature. Yes it is temporary but it still leaves a taint on you physically and on your soul. It doesn't mean you are Chaotic, unless you welcome it voluntarilly and thus do accept Chaos into yourself. I would suggest that experienced Chos fighting cults would offer means of getting rid of the taint by heroquest or other magical means. Otherwise every time some of your toughest chaos fighters survive a battle with some awesome Chaos a lot of them would be tainted and you would have to kill off people that could still be useful. This is because I would suggest that once tainted you are more prone to being seduced by Chaos or chaotic tendencies. The Dark Side of illumination. You would be regarded with suspicion by all, but should still have some way of purifying yourself. In summary you can be a chaotic creature without a chaos taint due to your attitude to life. Or have a chaos taint but not be a chaotic since you haven't chosen to embrace Chaos, yet!! With the Seven Mothers spell of Chaos Feature I think that using it would make the priest or initiate a chaotic since they chose to do it voluntarily. It is a side of the cult cult my Seven Mother's initiate is staying well away from. However I do not think that just because the cult has the spell that makes the SM a chaos cult. Only the people who use the spell voluntarily on themselves are chaotic. No matter what the Orlanthi say. Although I could be tempted to try and throw this spell on the Storm Bull in our party, just to see how he reacts.:-> By the way. What is this surfing business ? Sounds awfully chaotic to me. After all we haven't even heard of the Lunars doing it before! :-> ________________________________________ I don't think tricksters would be associated with the Chaos rune through their cult deliberately (although there will always be exceptions to every rule of course). This is because Disorder represents the closest Law can get to Chaos without destroying itself. I think Eurmal and his worshippers still maintain their self-interest in living, most of the time. Not that that wouldn't stop a trickster trying something new and then realising "Whoops! I went too far that time." After all that is how Eurmal introduced Death to the world, which then helped precipitate the onslaught of Chaos. (NB don't forget that Humakt, for all his honor, was a willing acomplice of Eurmal in stealing Death out of Hell. Does that make them associate cults?!?). Of course one day you will run into a chaotic trickster or else a bunch of broos who worship a trickster cult and a chaos cult, but I think it would be a very exceptional case. ______________________________ I love Mike Dawson's idea of having a cults book with full cult write-ups and 4-5 pages of scenarios for each cult. Reminds me of the good old days of CoT and CoP. However on a related thread. Since I don't have the original Cradle adventure I am a bit 50/50 about reprints. Is it possible to reprint the original CoT or CoP and Cradle, etc adventures with minimal, or even no, modifications (thus saving money and time - surely there is a printer ready set of manuscripts for each of these) so that those of us who do want them can get them and then do any changes ourselves to stats as required by whichever RQ system hybrid we may be using. After all it is the source material we are all really after, not just the stats. Or is the problem that you have to do a minimum size publishing run to keep costs reasonable and the market is not deemed large enough. I would welcome the RuneCzar's words of wisdom on this one. __________________________ Adam: If you have a Moon rune in Sorcery don't forget to make the effects cyclical in some way. I know Sorcery isn't religion based but as a Lunar priest it is the cyclical nature of our spells that is half the fun (forgetting to check your calendar before adventuring can get really deadly once you're using a lot of Rune Spells). Perhaps as well as the illusion effects on the mind you want to add in Lycanthropy/Shapechanging effects or control or is that being too corny and unimaginative. ________________________ Is there anyone else out there who regrets the loss of lay membership in RQ religions. I think it is a great idea as it allows you to just have a casual relationship with a God without having to get greatly enmeshed in regular services and that God's ethics. It is a good tool for merchants and strangers to get accepted in different communities. Not to mentionjust plain darned polite when your visiting an elven forest on a holy day to pay your respects to Aldrya. RQIII doesn't allow this which always make my characters feel very strange. "Oh you are busy having a holy day today. Fine, we will be just having a drink outside until you're finished." I view intiate status as representing a genuine ongoing commitment to a god and his/her/its ethics. Lay membership is just a way of showing respect or donating money to the cult, usually in return for services that are elsewhere unavailable from your own cult, and lasts for only a short period. What do others think? Andrew Bean (sometime Lunar intiate or priest)