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Date: Thu, 6 May 93 17:15:12 +0200
Message-Id: <9305061515.AA04540@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 06 May 1993, part 1
Precedence: junk
Status: OR
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The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals
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---------------------
From: seh0@aberystwyth.ac.uk
Subject: I agree....but I'm not sure who I'm agreeing with
Message-ID: <9305051404.AA11524@deca.aber.ac.uk>
Date: 5 May 93 16:04:08 GMT
Sorry to say, I forgot the name of the guy, but I agree that this digest IS one
way to continue the publicising and growth of Runequest. However, it's far
from the only way. The best thing that this digest could do, I would think
would be to continue to have things coming on like Paul's suggestions for the
Etyries cult. While people may then disagree on the nature of them, what we
would come to is a point whereby we have discovered WHY this shouldn't be so,
and therefore expand the knowledge of Glorantha. As for being "Gregged", didn't
he say at one stage that he wanted people to go off and add to Glorantha. Well, I've been gregged, I do his bidding. More of my own originated stuff will be
added at some point, if nothing else so I can get some feedback on it.
But RQ needs more than this list. Most of us on this are old RQ fans, I've
been playing the game since '82 or thereabouts. What RQ needs is new blood.
I've tried to encourage people to the One True Path of Glorantha. Several of
my current players had never tried the game before I ran it, and now they do
swear by it. But AH have got to do something. I agree that they need to
advertise (Adam's comment) but I don't think that will solve the problem.
Reading Role Player Independent the other day (independent magazine, free plug)
I glanced through the review section. The magazine contained two adverts for
RQ products, Sun County and Shadows on the Borderlands, but the review section
didn't include a single AH product, although it did have a review of King of
Sartar. White Wolf managed to get three products reviewed. Now how is it
that WW manage this, but AH don't get line coverage? I was kind of planning
to write to RPI and offer my services as a reviewer of RQ products, but do AH
distribute review material to such magazines. If the product is sent to the
magazine, the magazine can pass it on to their reviewers and the company gets
the publicity that the review generates. Quality products like Sun County
would almost certainly get good reviews, the product being superior to a hell
of a lot of stuff on the market. Also, what the products would seem to need is
some really impressive cover art, stuff that draws you to it on the shelf. If
that is there ( and I know, don't judge a book..... but IT HELPS, look at the
people who stroll up to Vampire and say WOW!!!) then the rest may follow.
At the same time, we do need to build up more of an atmosphere of the good old
Glorantha. I've often wondered how people who just have RQ3 have managed up
until the arrival of the Renaissance material. Good quality material that
builds up atmosphere is still needed. My vote goes heavily to SC. As I have
noted previously, RoC didn't have that kick. The adventure just didn't draw me
in. Far too linear for my liking. I like to have adventures where sub-plots
zing around like bumblebees on LSD. That's what distinguished Snakepipe Hollow
from being just another dungeon bash, there was the substance and flavour of
the sub-plots (Blue Ghost, Maggot, etc). If this is the kind of thing that
keeps emerging, then all the better, and RQ may see daylight yet.
Stephen M Hunt
Better Red Than Dead
---------------------
From: wroberts@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William C Robertson)
Subject: Sorry for being and American :)
Message-ID:
Date: 5 May 93 08:41:59 GMT
> From: ade@insignia.co.uk (Adrian Brownlow)
> Subject: RQ on CD ROM
> Message-ID: <21462.9305040951@piglet.insignia.co.uk>
> Date: 4 May 93 02:51:18 GMT
>
> William C Robertson writes :
> > RuneQuest needs more exposure, people need to know about
> > Glorantha and how great it is. I'm talking about REAL advertising, not
> > advertinsing in an Avalon Hill house magazine. Think about it, spend the
> > money.
> Yes RQ needs exposure but is pouring cash into advertising really the way?
> Advertising is very hit and miss and tends to be very country specific. Over
> there the states is a huge market and I suspect you'll get away with putting a
> couple of ads in one or two of your major mags. In europe you've got to
> advertise seperatly in each country to get any kind of response.
You're right, I was thinking solely of an American audience. I
completely failed to consider the rest of the world. Relative cultural
isolation tends to do that to you no matter how hard you try. I was
thinking in terms of a, or a series of, well written ad(s) describing the
mystery and uniqueness of Glorantha; something to entice the imagination.
Talk about the fact that Glorantha has existed for nearly 30 years now as
an independant creation, not just another trashy clone fantasy world.
You're right, I was thinking of the major magazines, like White Wolf,
or Dragon. I just assumed that those magazines had international
distribution. But, it's not impossible to advertise in many places, after
all, TSR takes out full page ads in our local college newspaper here at
The Ohio State University. AD&D isn't better that RuneQuest, but TSR has
a very competent marketing department.
So, speaking of RuneQuest throughtout the world; I'm going to Taiwan
soon to continue my studies, am I going to be the only person playing
RuneQuest there?
-Bill
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From: peterw@computer-science.manchester.ac.uk (Peter Wake)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 04 May 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <9305051540.AA07100@r2k.cs.man.ac.uk>
Date: 5 May 93 15:40:05 GMT
>---------------------
>From: P.A.Snow@gdr.bath.ac.uk (P A Snow)
>Subject: Selling RQ/Glorantha
snippity snip
> Here are some thoughts on what is needed. Firstly, I would suggest that RQ
>set in Glorantha is currently quite hard to "get" as a game environment. I
>suspect that many people here will not believe this but lets assume it for the
>sake of this discussion. Personally, I am fortunate to have been illuminated
>by discussions with GS at Convulsion '92 so I have a feel of what Glorantha is
>all about, how the world works and the issues being discussed. ( I went to
>Convulsion as a C of C player only). But I find that if I read RQ3, GofG,
>Genertala etc very few parts of this tell me about the desired feel of
>Glorantha. Clearly, What My Father Told Me and What the Priest Told Me are the
>brilliant exceptions to this but there is not enough material like this.
The reason everyone who's got it wants to see Cults of Prax reissued
in some form is exactly this. CoP was probably the first game
supplement to have a decent 'soft' background. It's still very good
even by today's standards. Even the artwork did its job (even if it
was a little strange). It is far better than the 'What my father told
me stuff' and it covered all the cults in the book with a good story
that was worth reading in itself. I have CoP, when I ask for it to be
reissued it is *not* a selfish thing, or for myself. I can play RQ2
anytime I want. I don't need any if the stuff reissued for my benefit
because I have it (and still use a lot of it). The people asking for
reprints/reissues largely have the stuff and know how good it is.
>Additionally the hard facts that I need to use as reference on the general
>Gloranthan background are also widely dispersed as I know readers of this group
>are aware.
>
> It seems to me that there are two ways to introduce background into any
>game. There is "hard" technical background and there is atmospheric getting the
>feel of it background that I will refer to as "soft" background. Now the desire
>in this group for a large, comprehensive cults write up without any adventures
>etc. is an appeal for a lot of hard background. I understand why you want this
snippity snip
Not necessarily. I think that we already have GoG the 'hard'
background. People are asking for detailed write ups with Biturian
Varosh type stuff because they want the 'soft' background.
CoP combined hard and soft background in an excellent and useable way.
The new stuff does not. GoG is very 'hard' and the 'What the Priest
Says` hardly goes anyway to getting the flavour of Glorantha.
Glorantha is worse. Troll Pak has been reissued in its entirety
(providing you by all the bits) so that's OK. Sun County and RoC are
really pretty hard. Only the Garhound scenario really has a 'feel' to
it, you have to provide it yourself for the rest. RoC is almost all
hard and is (as I have said before) a strange hodge podge of material
with a big (and rather suspect) scenario that I suspect even novice
players might not really want. I think that novice players prefer to
get several short scenarios rather than one big one, and SC is better
in this respect. Just look at Vampire (again) that doesn't have a
single scenario of a length to match the RoC thing in its product
range.
So the bottom line is I want more soft background, which is
essentially a big agreement with P.A. Snow.
--
Peter Wake
---------------------
From: awr0@aberystwyth.ac.uk
Subject: huh?
Message-ID: <9305051546.AA20818@deca.aber.ac.uk>
Date: 5 May 93 17:46:23 GMT
> From: ade@insignia.co.uk (Adrian Brownlow)
> Subject: Elf Reproduction
>
> How do elves reproduce?
I thought it had something to do with one elf casting a divine spell of
somekind on a female elf.
---------------------
From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Loads of stuff!
Message-ID: <930505215200_100270.337_BHB46-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 5 May 93 21:52:00 GMT
(Sorry to take up so much space, but I LOVE this newsletter!)
___________
David Ingram:
"... Apparent differences and inconsistencies between the stories are not
bad management on behalf of the editors but reflect the point that if five
people witness a given event then in the end there will be five (or six)
conflicting views on what actually happened."
Surely this is the whole point of Greg's writing "King of Sartar" -- to get
us
away from the terminally retentive view that only what we've been told
about actually happened. In order to use that book for your RQ campaign,
you're going to have to make value judgements, draw up a realistic
timeline, and decide for yourself who to believe. Not bad practice.
______________
Adrian Brownlow:
Elf reproduction: Elder Races Book, p.30f. has the official line on this.
I believe that elf "dances" in Sea Season are pollination rituals -- but
then I suffer from "Elf Fever" and stagger out of the woods sneezing if
they've been around. I remember Sandy saying that Accelerate Growth could
be repeatedly cast to speed up the development of an elf "fruit" to
physical maturity if the forest needs warriors *FAST*, but that the elves
"hot-housed" that way are mongoloid cretins. If you meet one in an elf
wood, panic! (It's like "the Brithini are having babies!").
________
P A Snow:
You're not talking rubbish. The bits of Glorantha products I return to
time and again are the "soft background" and parts written for us by
Gloranthan authors: Priests, Fathers, Jaxarte in Tales, the Jonstown
Compendium (an interesting cross: "soft/hard background"!) and now, of
course, King of Sartar. Better, far better than the impersonal mechanics
of cult short-form write-ups. What did the cult of Godunya from GoG teach
us about Kralori society? That was not my favorite RQ rulesbook -- though
the other stuff in the box more than made up for it!
I guess the solution, now we've got GoG, would be to produce MaGoG -- More
About Gods of Glorantha. But that's a biblical pun rather than a serious
suggestion. On the other hand, if you brought it out on as
three-hole-punched CD-ROM boxed set... Nurse! My tablets!
___________
Mike Dawson:
"Do you think that Malkion prohibits the lending of money at interest?
Makes for some interesting political and economic situations."
I'm sure he does! Only the filthy, corrupt Vadeli are moneylenders in the
West, as unlike the Brithini Way their religion *encourages* contact with
outsiders (to spread their vile contagion!). That's why they're confined to
their ghettoes in any self-respecting seaport. Now of course in parts of
sophisticated Ralios, this part of the Law is a dead letter: think of the
Medici bankers. And there are semantic ways around it (I was amused to
learn how "Islamic Banking" works: they pay profit-shares instead of
interest to depositors). But as Mike says, this just makes things more
"interesting".
Paul's suggestion that interest is seen as making numbers 'unstable' is a
good one. Yes, different sects will have different views on this as on
other things.
If anyone out there has thought seriously about Malkion seen as a Prophet
(as opposed to the God stuff we usually find in Greg's and Charlie's
notes), could they E-mail me to get in touch and discuss ideas. But this
really isn't something I want to rabbit on about in the Daily.
_______
Carl Fink:
Thanks for the feedback. I think we can agree to differ: you have
obviously been taught by the Yanafal Cult, and can't be blamed for
swallowing their version hook, line and sinker. You will note that I said
Yanafal had "incurred the wrath of Swordbreaker," not that he had his own
sword broken. Humakt takes it out on his cultists.
Where in GoG does it mention the Humakti spirit of retribution? I think
you mean Cults of Prax, or the Tales 5 reprint. Well, it may surprise you
to hear this, but the cult of Humakt was written a long time ago, and
without great attention to cultural detail. If you want to interpret the
rules literally (cf. your silly "practical joke"), then yes, there's
nothing wrong with your version. If you prefer to explore the
possibilities of Glorantha, tag along: some of us are going to new and
exciting places...
In General Livius Thrax's monograph on the Red Army, he says that scimitars
are better than straight blades because they break less easily. Well, he
would say that, wouldn't he? He's hardly going to admit that the Lunar
Wargod is cursed by the premier God of Death! This kind of face-saving
explanation will be common in Lunar lands.
________________
Brandon Brylawski:
YES!! Thank you *very* much for your encouraging response. That is
*exactly* the cluster of attitudes I was alluding to when I mentioned
Humakt's "straight-sided, two-edged Death". The one thing you didn't bring
up was the two edges. Humakti morality has a certain "do as you would be
done by" fatalism about it. The wielder of Death accepts that he, too,
will die some day. Not so for Yanafal!
Having a Humakti initiation test that requires you to march in a straight
line, even without the blindfold, is a hilarious and sensible idea: I'll
adopt it myself. Note that in one Dara Happan aetiological myth, the
"Yumatam" (Orlanthi) are said to be unable to travel in straight lines ever
since their first assault was turned aside by a Solar hero. More proof
that Humakt is a foreign (and, in my view, Western) deity! Marching in
formation is NOT the Orlanthi way of fighting, and it doesn't come
naturally to them.
_________
Paul Reilly:
Double entry bookkeeping seems reasonable enough for the Lunar Empire:
there are far worse things they could be up to. Critics who think it makes
fraud impossible should read the financial pages. It's not the "love of
duplicate records", but the inherent need for everything to balance, that
makes it an obviously Lunar technique. That inspiration praised, something
else you mentioned really sticks in my craw:
The Carmanians are one of the most anti-God Learner nations you'll find.
Remember why Syranthir left Loskalm in the first place? Wondered why they
are dedicated to the Runes of Law and Truth? The founding Carmanians were
a mercenary army, fanatically opposed to the innovations of the God
Learners: I doubt they had been greatly influenced by them. The
"engineering" of deities you mention (worshipping them in both Light and
Dark aspects, I presume) is an outgrowth from their Arkati / Talori roots,
put into sharper focus by early contacts with empires of Light and Shadow
in Peloria. They could accept and utilise both, as they knew the two were
both the creations of the One God, giving them a diversity available to
none of their opponents. They love Truth, and abhor the Lie.
That said, I don't see your Carmanian mercantile innovations as a problem.
In fact, they're a damn' good idea. It's just pinning the roots of this
cultural novelty on the God Learners I object to.
Modern Carmania is an offshoot of the Loskalm of 900 YEARS AGO (add italics
or bold type to suit)! Modern Loskalm has been hothoused by the 100-odd
years of the Syndics Ban; I would guess that if they're late-15th-century
now, they were only 13th-century or so before the Ban. And less developed
than that in the early Second Age, of course. (See Pendragon for a similar
"accelerated timeline").
My two favorite parallels for modern Loskalm would be Carolingian France at
the death of Charlemagne, or Visigothic Spain on the eve of its collapse.
Not for the technology, but for their proudly isolationist / supremacist
attitudes coming into rude collision with the outside world, and with
internal political realities. (Has anyone else noticed that the Fronela
chapter of the Genertela Book was written by a Loskalmi? Examine his
attitude to the conflicting claims of Loskalm and Jonatela to Junora, and
how he views the cities of Syanor.)
Your kind comments on my Yanafal suggestions are most welcome! Yup, the
Lunar luminaries do indeed insist on adherence to codes of good practice
from their underlings. But the problem, as ever, is "Quis custodiet ipsos
custodes?"
No, the Yanafali Oathbreaking idea is my own, and not from an "official"
source. But I believe it, and I hope you do too. One of the problems of
having Cult and State so closely intertwined in the Lunar Empire, with a
high proportion of cynical Illuminati among the decision-makers. Of
course, even if the formal ritual I mention doesn't exist, who'd trust an
Oath from a potentially-illuminated Lunar? From my understanding of
Illumination, I find it plausible that an illuminate would be immune to the
ill effects of Oathbreaking ... though to save Carl the effort, I will
point out that the rules in CoT don't explicitly state this.
I have indeed put a lot of thought into the Lunars. I'd be delighted to
collaborate in any Lunar cult write-ups, or offer suggestions / commentary
on the results, if time permits. But there are several other Gloranthan
projects on my plate at the moment...
___________
Jeff Okamoto:
Glad you liked it! You say you're a Trickster, so:
One *joke* idea we kicked around at Tales talks was an explanation of the
duel between Humakt and Yanafal. See, Humakt hits first, and kills
Yanafal. Duel over, he thinks. But Yanafal is resurrected before he hits
the ground, then knocks Humakt down with the return swing. Now the
Yanafali say they were fighting to the first fall, the Humakti to first
blood. Who knows which is right: they're both Gods of Truth!
Still not as snappy as "Truth is the first casualty of War" for causing
instant mayhem in Humakti Halls.
_____________
Peter Michaels:
This is good stuff: I liked everything you had to say.
NICE explanations of Yinkin's Rune magic! Your version is still fine after
Elmal, I'd have thought; not sure the change to Yelmalio's Rune spell is
needed, especially as he's now connected to the Orlanth Pantheon (and
therefore to cats).
NICE Lankhor* Mhy subcults! I like all these arguments and suggestions,
and imagine I'd allow their use in a game, where appropriate. Especially
good is Veratus' spell, possibly more common than you make it among
Librarian types (who have no use for the Truespeak power of the Orlanthi
jurors). Just one niggle: why do you call the hilly Provinces "Lower
Peloria"? That's perverse, by any reckoning!
*(I'm from Seapolis)
_________
>>Phew!<<
It'll be a while before I write anything this long again, I hope! Keep up
the quality, guys: Wednesday's RuneQuest Daily was gripping and provocative
stuff. Not so much frotting around with hole-punches and Grand Designs for
the next-relaunch-but-one: just good solid Gloranthan speculation.
Be seeing you,
Nick Brooke
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