Bell Digest v930511

From runequest Sat May 15 10:27:29 1993
From news@glorantha Tue May 11 17:17:22 1993
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Date: Tue, 11 May 93 17:15:28 +0200
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From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 11 May 1993, part 1
Precedence: junk
Status: O

This is the automated Daily RuneQuest Digest.

Send submissions only to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they
will automatically be included in a next issue.  Try to change the
~Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily...  on replying.

Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest.  If you 
want to submit articles to the Digest only,  contact the editor at
RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM.

						-Henk Langeveld
--
Send Submissions to: 		    	
Enquiries to:		  
The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals
with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of
Glorantha.  			 Maintainer: Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM

---------------------

~From: dickmj@postman.essex.ac.uk
~Subject: Re: Not using this digest for what it was intended
Message-ID: <9305101305.AA01309@serdlc14>
~Date: 10 May 93 13:05:14 GMT

 I saw in a recent digest someone asking for anyone who lives near
Oxford to drop him a line.

 Well, this seems like a good way of meeting people, so if anyone out
there is from the Norwich area, or even slightly close by, then drop us
a line and we'll see what we can do.

 Oh, and ner! to any Blackburn Rovers supporters out there.

-When a man lies he murders a piece of the world

-Arganth

p.s next time I write, I promise it'll be RQ, so no flame war please

---------------------

~From: dickmj@postman.essex.ac.uk
~Subject: Re: Shadows and other shady stuff
Message-ID: <9305101339.AA01063@serdlc5>
~Date: 10 May 93 13:39:34 GMT

>When is Shadows comming out in Britain? I have mine on order and 
>still haven't got my copy yet......sigh.(Or do I have a crap supplier?)

 I heard a rumour that it'll be out in June, but this is probably wrong
- both SC and Roc just turned up out of the blue, so I expect Shadows
will as well. Haven't had time to read the review yet, but I'm glad to
see that someone has been able to get a copy. This gives hope to the rest of us.

 Seen a lot of Trickster stuff floating around recently, so I thought
I'd chuck in this spell which occurred to me the other night while we
were playing (I'd had something to drink so I've got an excuse).

 New Trickster (Eurmal) spirit magic spell

 Eggs, Egghead, The yolk's on you

 3pt, non-variable, temporal, passive

 This recreates the egg from the back of the head routine. The
trickster reaches round behind the 'victim's' head, casts the spell
(the words are 'ta-da' - nothing to do with the bloke who saved
Ernalda) and an egg appears in his hand which he then reveals to the
victim (hopefully) to his amazement. The one necessity for this spell
is that, if the victim asks to see the egg (e.g to test if it's real)
then the Trickster must (preferably with a flourish) break it over the
victim's head, or in his face.

 So, although this can be a useful spell for distracting guards ,etc,
there is a flipside which can place the caster in even more trouble. If
ever the Trickster fails to do this then he develops a rotten egg
smell. Hate to think what Eurmal would require him to do to get rid of it.


 In the campaign I'm running in Sartar (what an original locale), the
p.c's are currently attending the Orlanthi High Holy day in an attempt
to become initiates (one p.c failed to join Humakt when he told the
examiner that, if he gave his word not to harm someone who later turned
out to be an ogre, he would kill him when he discovered the truth). 

 As this occasion tends to turn into a bank holiday (or bank Holyday)
for most people, the Tricksters have turned up. The egg joke worked
wonderfully on one character who got one right in the face (makes me
wish I'd live-roleplayed it).

 So far the best thing the Trickster has done (apart from trying to
steal the religious paraphenalia from the local temple to all deities)
is to convince a Storm Kahn and his 40 braves (who had ridden all the
way from Prax following a dream sent by the bull himself telling them
about a large chaos presence in the region) that the chaos was actually
a large group of gorp cunningly disguised as cow pats in a nearby
field, and that the only way to destroy the chaos menance was to ...
eat it (well he is a Trickster, and he figured that it may well sweeten
the Storm Bulls' breath). Great spell 'lie'.

 So, you can imagine what one of the p.c's who wanted to become a lay
member of Urox had to do to prove his sincerity. He's still picking the
pieces of straw out of his teeth!

 Anyway, better get on with my revision.

-When a man lies he murders a part of the world

-Arganth

---------------------

~From: dickmj@postman.essex.ac.uk
~Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 08 May 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <9305101504.AA01869@serdlc13>
~Date: 10 May 93 15:04:39 GMT

 Was there a part 2 on Saturday, and if so would some kind soul send it
to me please. I also seem to be missing Friday 7 May part 1 and
Wednesday the 5th part 2 (I think my mail server is mucking around).

 You can tell I'm supposed to be revising - this is my 3rd submission today!!

 One of my 'on-goings' at the moment is an Orlanthi gift and geas table
(for the really devout worshipper). When it's finished I'll probably
post it if it's any good. Has any body got any ideas? I've started with
geases and so far have thought of (among others) 'Never allow a dog
into your presence', 'Never let a Trickster remain unbound until he has
sworn the bondsman pledge' as well as the more obvious 'never seek
shelter from the sun' and 'challenge all lunars to a first blood duel
on sight'. Gifts so far include the ability to talk to the wind sylphs
(i.e to hear of events which occurred where the wind is blowing from)
and the ability to fly once a day, as well as skill increases (like
Yelmalioan and Humakti gifts)

 The tables will probably be randomised. What I'm really after is less
militarilistic (did I spell that right?) gifts and geases, one's that
make for interesting roleplaying and that won't unbalance the game.

 Any suggestions (PLEASE!!!)

 Can't be bothered to include a saying

 -Arganth

---------------------

~From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
~Subject: Re: Admission of Wrongness; Humakti notes.
Message-ID: <9305101559.AA15127@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
~Date: 10 May 93 15:59:48 GMT

  Paul Reilly here.  I mentioned the 'great' Lhankor Mhy filing system. 
Thom replies:

>? According to Cults of Prax the Lhankor Mhy filing system is terrible. It may

  It looks like I have made a mistake here.  Since I don't own Cults of Prax
(when it came out we were all struggling students and each of us bought
 just one or two of the RQ II supplements) my memory of it is sometimes
fuzzy and I stand corrected.  I naively thought all those indexing notations
on various documents (like Report on Skyfall Lake) actually MEACNT something!

  On Humakti:

   Our Humakti vary quite a bit by region:

In Prax they are very much the Clint Eastwood type - dusty hero rides 
into town and mayhem ensues.  They serve as enforcers of justice and oaths.
(As does Clint in many movies, cf. High Plains Drifter, Pale Rider, etc.)

In Oranor and the rest of western Fronela they are very much reacting against
the Western image of 'Humkt', the dirty old sore-covered death camp doctor.
They are honorable, clean, etc. and believe in Peace through Strength,
emphasizing the Truth aspects of the cult.  With a few exceptions, who have
adopted the Western False God Humkt as the image of their deity - these
people are real sickos and the 'real' Humakti treat them much as medieval
Christians would have treated actual Satan worshippers (if the Inquisition
could have turned up any hidden among the harmless old women and people
whose property was desired by the inquisitors.)

In Safelster (Ralios) they are a cult popular among mercenaries and, to a 
lesser extent, the regular armies of the city-states (such as they are.)
To these people the Truth Rune means never violating your contract, and
once hired they are loyal unto death or until the money runs out.  They
are VERY dangerous if betrayed by an employer - since we are using movie
references I have to point out Martin (Rutger Hauer) in Flesh & Blood
as the perfect example here - absolutely loyal until betrayed, then vengeful.
Also in this region we assume strong Arkati influences on the Humakt
cult, from the Dark Empire period - Arkat Humaktson should probably be
an important figure in the cult mythology here.  Different bands would
have VIOLENT differences of opinion about Arkat.

In the Holy Country I follow the line set by the Humakti Special issue
of TotRM, with the Humakti doctrine adulterated by ideas from the Masters
of Luck and Death - Lottery Swords etc.  The occasional Humakti 'fop' is
amusing.  Hard to improve on this article.

  In core Orlanthi regions such as Lankst, Sartar, etc.  Humakti will be
reacting to Orlanthi opinions about them.  I think that some clans will
claim to have been Humakti since before he split off from his brother
Orlanth, with the clan having a very strong military tradition.  I think
that these clans will live in the harsher areas (high up, stony soil,
etc.) and that their main source of trade goods will be through the 
services of their mercenaries.  There should be a saga or two about small
Humakti bands from these clans, who were hired to serve a tribal King
who proved to have little honor and who made many enemies.  Deserted by his
own people, the King has to rely on a dozen or so of these Humakti mercenaries
while the rebel army assaults.  They all die, of course, but they are true
to their word.  (The point here being that Humakti should be true to their
word even unto death, even when there is no other reason to fight on that
side.  Of course they should be careful in giving their word.)  I suppose
that I am influenced here by the Dorsai stories of Gordon R. Dickson, as
well as (of course) the tales of Roland, etc.  Oh, and these Humakti are
often out as individuals or small groups.  Only for a great War (cf.
Argrath's Saga) do full Humakti companies assemble.

  Well, all for this message, 
paul
________________


---------------------

~From: bytemstr@aol.com
~Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 08 ...
Message-ID: <9305091904.tn44757@aol.com>
~Date: 9 May 93 23:04:32 GMT

I can't keep up with the daily forum.
Please stop sending the RQD to my address.
I'm still interested but this is just too much info for me to read in one
sitting.t

---------------------

~From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
~Subject: Re: Battle Tactics
Message-ID: <9305102039.AA16279@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
~Date: 10 May 93 20:39:45 GMT


 From paul Mon May 10 15:56:22 1993
 Date: Mon, 10 May 93 15:56:21 EDT
 From: paul (Paul Reilly)
 To: paul
 Subject: Re: Battle Tactics
 
   Paul Reilly here...
 
   I am working on a scene in a scenario in which a battle is fought
 involving several different troop types.  Through the medium of this 
 scene I hope to incorporate some ideas for creative and effective
 tactics that others could use in their own campaigns.  In this
 battle I want to use 'traditional' tactics for the various groups.
 
 Example:
   My Zorani battle group has a Death Lord, about a dozen Dark Troll
 initiates, and a Great Troll.  Each Initiate has two trollkin apiece.
 One is a shield-trollkin who nearly always takes a 'parry twice' option,
 using his shield to cover himself and a hooked club to cover his master.
 (Hooked club can act as sword-breaker).  The other trollkin stays behind
 and knows a couple of spells, and has rocks to throw.  The initiate
 will cast Protection and then either use Fanaticism or go Berserk,
 depending on how important the battle is.  The ZZ's use mauls over the
 heads of their trollkin.  I myself am used to this tactic as in the
 Society for Creative Anachronism my preferred position is using a
 pole arm over the heads of short shield-women.  I am about 9 inches taller
 than they are and this affords me a great view of the battle and freedom
 to use the pole arm.  I often use that 1/2 Dodge!
 
    I view this as a pretty standard Zorani tactic.  (Works for me!)  The
 trollkin have all been indoctrinated with the belief that if they stand
 fast and protect their masters they will have a good trip to Wonderhome 
 and may get reborn as Uz in their next life.  Dying to protect their
 masters against Chaos or Light gives them an automatic ticket to rebirth 
 as a Troll, hence their morale is very good against such foes.
 
   We know something about Yelmalio tactics and I plan to take some Orlanthi
 tactics from old accounts of the Celtic and German tribesmen.  What I hope
 to get started on the list is a discussion of peculiarly Gloranthan tactics.
 Do Malliants throw rotten meat over the walls of the town? (As seen in Flesh
 and Blood.)  Do Humakti refuse to attack from behind (obviously some with
 geasa refuse, but what about the others?)  If so a good general will never
 use them as flanking troops.  I think that Tactics of Glorantha could
 be a good project for the list, perhaps once made it could be distributed
 as shareware as per Andrew Bell's suggestions.  I'm willing to tackle
 Lunar Heartland and Zorani tactics.  Maybe Nick could tell us about
 Carmanian tactics, etc.  Sun County already has the Yelmalio tactics.
 
   This is obviously not a high-priority project but just an idea thrown
 out to the Net in the hopes that something will evolve from it eventually.
 Well, all for now.
 
  - Paul
 
 

---------------------

~From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
~Subject: Analyze Magic
Message-ID: <9305102145.AB03742@Sun.COM>
~Date: 10 May 93 11:17:58 GMT

>From: ABEAN@GEEL.DWT.CSIRO.AU (Andrew Bean)

>Apart from the Etyries weaknesses why would 
>Irripi Ontor ever think of replacing Lankhor Mhy when LM is the only one 
>with Analyze Magic.

I bet there are a few Irripi Ontor HeroQuesters who have something to say on
this subject! Personally, I don't think they are likely to succeed unless
Lhankor Mhy loses power (e.g. through a defeat of orlanth).

Thom

    _/    _/  _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/  _/    Human Cognition Research Lab
   _/    _/  _/        _/    _/  _/     The Open University
  _/_/_/_/  _/        _/_/_/_/  _/      Milton Keynes MK7 6AA, U.K.
 _/    _/  _/        _/  _/    _/       Tel: +44 908 65-4518  Fax: -3169
_/    _/  _/_/_/_/  _/    _/  _/_/_/_/  Internet:T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk

---------------------

~From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder)
~Subject: Skyclad
Message-ID: 
~Date: 10 May 93 22:00:42 GMT


Enchanted woad covered Orlnathi would have to fight stark bollock naked!

Bloody terrifying sight I'd have said but bloddy encoraging for their
followers.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        tzunder@cix.compulink.com.uk 
                                                   How Illuminating!
--------------------------------------------------------------------



---------------------

~From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
~Subject: Humakti and stealth
Message-ID: <9305102145.AA03742@Sun.COM>
~Date: 10 May 93 11:07:40 GMT

>From: etlanmy@aachen.ericsson.se (Allan Murphy)

>Humakti:     "Another mineral water please."  { Remember, they don't drink }

Depends on which geas they take. Of course many Humakti will abstain or drink
very little as a mark of piety. I can't imagine many Swords drinking though ...

>They certainly don't go around slaughtering people randomly, anyway. How
>do others define Humakti behaviour and codes of conduct ? Sometimes Humakti
>PCs get in trouble - a lot of adventures require sneaking and hiding,
>assasination...exactly the sort of thing Humakti *hate*. 

I've thought about this a little. The restrictions are against ambush and
assassination rather than stealth. I envisage Humakti with stealth skills using
them in tactically different ways e.g. sneaking into the middle of an enemy
camp and then beating sword on shield and challenging the enemy champion or
leader to single combat. Similarly, Humakti could use stealth to hide from
overwhelming odds. I see the Humakti way as involving controlled force - they
are not berserkers. Of course there is considerable leeway for individual
players and referees to interpret ambush or assassination.

Thom

    _/    _/  _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/  _/    Human Cognition Research Lab
   _/    _/  _/        _/    _/  _/     The Open University
  _/_/_/_/  _/        _/_/_/_/  _/      Milton Keynes MK7 6AA, U.K.
 _/    _/  _/        _/  _/    _/       Tel: +44 908 65-4518  Fax: -3169
_/    _/  _/_/_/_/  _/    _/  _/_/_/_/  Internet:T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk

From runequest Sat May 15 10:27:31 1993
From news@glorantha Tue May 11 17:18:25 1993
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From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 11 May 1993, part 2
Precedence: junk
Status: O

This is the automated Daily RuneQuest Digest.

Send submissions only to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they
will automatically be included in a next issue.  Try to change the
~Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily...  on replying.

Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest.  If you 
want to submit articles to the Digest only,  contact the editor at
RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM.

						-Henk Langeveld
--
Send Submissions to: 		    	
Enquiries to:		  
The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals
with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of
Glorantha.  			 Maintainer: Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM

---------------------

~From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
~Subject: Re: This and That: Geasa, Sorcery, etc.
Message-ID: <9305101712.AA15433@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
~Date: 10 May 93 17:12:52 GMT


  Hello again!  I sent my partner-in-crime Finula McCaul some Digests
to look at.  She writes :

>  All this RQ digest will probably be too prolific to hold but you
>  could tell me about interesting things.

  Sadly cutting the uninteresting bits will probably make not make the
Digests noticeably shorter!

  And also  (Note her father taught Irish in Ireland) :
> Write them and tell them about
> geas and geasa so I don't have to come after them with a hatchet.

  The plural of geas (pronounced 'gaysh') is geasa (pronounced 'gaysha',
like those fine Japanese women).  Thus, Humakt gives Gifts and Geasa.
Please use these in future as she is very good with a hatchet!

  She will also try to write up an article on gifts and geasa for Xiola Umbar.
(Told you we like to play trolls)
---------------------------------
Liked the stuff on the 'disguises' of Kargan Tor.  Note also that 'as
Orlanth is heir to his father's realms, he is often mistakenly called
Umath in many myths', or words to that effect, appear in the Orlanth 
write-up.
----------------
 On E-mail to Tales:
  Thanks for the info!  It is great to see another journal come into the
modern age (my last article, in Physical Review D, was also submitted by 
email.)  One question (reply should go to the list):  You said formatted
is better.  Do you have LaTeX down there or some other formatting system?
If so we can e-mail formatted submissions, if not then snail is still 
better.
------------------

  Laws of Magic:
  Joerg gives the example of mechanistic spells such as Enhance Whatever
as particularly lacking in flavor.  These are actually easy to do in the
Crunchy Magic System.

  Strength - a spirit magic.
  Let's look at how the Rathori might do it.

  Strength of Rathor (or Strength of the Bear)

  The Rathori character learned this spell on a vision quest, on which
he picked up four power objects: Bear Hairs, a Bear Claw, a stone scored
by Bear claws, and a Raven feather.  Following the advice his shaman gave
him, they have been put  in a small leather bag and together form the
focus for the spell.

  He is surprised to find strangers in his clan's hunting ground and
decides to use his magic.  He has just enough time to clutch his back
and whisper "Rathor, give me Strength".

  (Used Similarity and Contagion, plus Invocation)

  On another occasion, he must move a boulder blocking a cave mouth.  With
plenty of time he shuffles around and acts out the part of a bear. 
"Rathorrrrgrrgrr", he growls.  "We have shared flesh together (see Joseph
Campbell's Primitive Mythology for the bear-feast), now share with me
your strrrength.  He shuffles, bear-like, to the stone and with his
now-inhuman strength, moves it.

Divine:
It's easy to picture an Ulerian putting on her makeup as an aid to
Glamour.  The Fertility Rune on her forehead will get the point across
and get the reaction she wants before the spell is even cast!  Many
cultists will wear tattoos appropriate to their God and use these
in spell-casting.

Sorcery:

  Milo
  Milo is a sorceror-painter heavily tied to the Runes of Illusion and Truth.
He is an enlightened Arkati sorceror and thus has no trouble dealing with
the apparent contradictions of these opposed Runes.

  Milo's mode of controlling his magical effects is primarily through drawing
and painting.  He can work "instant" spells (like standard RQ times) off the
cuff by mental imaging alone but for him this is the equivalent of being
unable to make gestures (half the usual casting chance).  He normally
carries some pre-made drawings that he can use in normal spell casting.
He can make 'air drawings' if necessary for simple spells.

  For complex or long-duration spells he much prefers to work with actual 
physical media to augment his control of mana.  His Ceremony to prepare
for a spell consists of making an often elaborate painting appropriate to the
spell.

 He will include certain Runes in the painting, either openly or concealed
in an underlayer, or as visual subliminals, or some compbination.

  Example Milo 'spells'
  A soldier in Milo's company wishes his Strength enhanced for eight weeks
(the rest of campaign season).  It's worth investing some time in an
eight-week spell, so Milo is willing to spend an hour or so (=300 rounds
for Ceremony, 11 or 12 dice). Milo quickly cartoons the soldier holding
up his hands over his head as if lifting and tells him to wait.  Milo quickly
adds in Runes of Darkness (evoking Trollish strength) over the major muscles
in the cartoon.  He adds in a Man rune where the cartoon's heart would be
- wanting to avoid Trollish side-effects.  He adds in a Beast rune with an
imperfection to evoke oxlike strength without the behavior.  He is now ready 
to paint, using his specially ground pigments (for versatility)  He gets a 
snippet of hair from the guy and incorporates that into the actual hair on
the painting.  For the red tones in his arms and legs he uses pigments 
which include ox-blood as an ingredient, again calling on the strength of
the Ox.  He has the guy lift something heavy, then collects his sweat to
add into the paint.  If available he may throw in a little Troll blood - 
if there are  with no angry Troll spirits in the region.  To finish the 
painting, he once again poses the guy with his arms over his head as if 
lifting - and Milo also paints in a full-grown ox being lifted by the guy.  
Finally he empowers the spell while thouching both the soldier and the 
painting.

  At GM's option destroying the painting could negate the spell,
otherwise it is just a 'casting aid' and the spell is now on the person.
Milo keeps a collection of such paintings, most rolled up in tubes.

  If Milo were to make an enchantment, it would be a painting.

  One can easily see how Milo would cast spells like Telepathy - he paints
the person he wishes to speak to and then talks to the painting.

  Other sorcerors would use other methods.  A common method is to draw
runes right on the person.  For long duration spells tattoing may be used.
In the standard system washing off the runes wouldn't dispell the spell -
they were just a casting aid and now the spell has 'sunk into' the person.

  A sorceror might also use potions, etc, as part of the Ceremony for his
spell casting.  A passion spell, for example, might involve the recipient
drinking a potion made from the sweat of a mare in heat.

  Sorcerors probably use the Law of Runic Concordances more than anyone
else.  
------------------
  I'll try to stay out of the Loskalm controversy but let me state my
view that BOTH Nick and Mark Slough are right:  Loskalm is a dynamic,
happy society (much like America of the 50's) where virtually everyone
buys into the social system BUT they want to impose their views on Junora,
etc. where they may be unwanted.  Loskalm will also get infected with 
foreign ideas as time goes by and people may question the fairness of the
system, which will lead to trouble.  As long as the system applies to the
King's children as well as the peasant's, it ought to be pretty stable.
-------------------
Andrew Bell writes:

>Not at all.  I believe it was Paul Reilly who said that his "Predator
>Pack" was turned down by Avalon Hill;
 
  I should have made it clear that we (Finula and I) sent a letter to AH 
with about twenty ideas - they said 'Work on these two'.  AH was not 
interested in Predator Pack at the current time.  I don't have anything
resembling a finished product but there is hope for the future if the
things we are working on do get accepted.  In any case I think that 
Andrew's ideas of setting up 'desktop publishing' of new RQ material!
I can only think that AH will not be opposed to this plan because it
should generate more interest in RQ - if there is a bunch of freeware
people are much more likely to buy the game system!  

  -Paul Reilly

---------------------

~From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
~Subject: Let's talk Loskalm!
Message-ID: <930511000903_100270.337_BHB47-1@CompuServe.COM>
~Date: 11 May 93 00:09:04 GMT

_________
For Mark S: 

Yeah, but if it's *Loskalmi* authors who write that Loskalm "has produced a 
fair and integrated society," I assume that they are working from 
prejudiced notions, naturally thinking that their way is best.  After all, 
what does "fair" mean?  That "all men are created equal"?  Pardon my 
European cynicism, but even the modern U.S. of A. finds that hard to live 
up to.  How a feudal / mediaeval culture is going to manage it boggles me.

I've not said Loskalm doesn't feel  "rich, stable and confident of its 
future"; after all, so was our Divine Margaret before her rude unseating!  
It's the little things you overlook that bring you down ... like the fact 
that Hrestoli "idealism" means that unlike every other state in the West, 
the Loskalmi *don't* have a corps of soldiers trained from childhood to 
fight as armoured horsemen.  They think their army is hot stuff, but for a 
century it's not had to fight anyone.  I'm sure they can parade well.  But 
can they fight?

... More generally ...

I for one would not bother to attempt to talk meaningfully about Glorantha 
if I assumed that all of the published material was reliable.  Because I 
can't make any sense out of some parts of it, as written.  The Hrestoli way 
has always struck me as ridiculous and hypocritical, and my exploration of 
alternative portrayals of Loskalm is meant to discover what really happens 
there.  You'll have noticed that I offered the "fallible human" explanation 
as a *preferable* alternative to the "Nazi" one: that is, I'd rather have 
the Hrestoli able to live with one another's self-seeking foibles than 
selflessly dedicated to a Higher Cause. The McCarthy parallel was thrown in 
on the spur of the moment -- and let's face it, it seems to fit the facts!

It's the famous "Biturian Varosh" effect -- the difference between ideology 
and reality -- that makes the world worth exploring for me.  That's why I 
object to what you aptly call the "Lawful Good Kingdom (tm)" approach to 
Loskalm.  I offer my version as a non-exclusive alternative portrayal, 
definitely not as the One True Way.  Remember that Western religion is a 
human institution, and humans will always be fallible.  Then believe who 
you want to.  It's just that up till now, nobody had bothered to say 
anything anti-Hrestoli: I felt it was long past due, and took the burden on 
myself.

"Acknowledging shades of grey does not mean that all the world is uniformly 
grey."  Hmmm...  Do you really believe this?  I agree, there are some 
clear-cut examples of "blackness" in our real world, but very few shades of 
grey that could be mistaken for white.  Unless you're blinding yourself 
with faith or sunny optimism...  I'm too cynical to want to dwell on this; 
if your world-view is so much more pleasant than mine, why should I taint 
it for you?  Just don't bomb anyone I know for a good cause, OK?  (This is 
sarcasm, and not a personal attack.  Please don't take it as one!).

The Genertela Book is not self-contradictory, hey?  Well, why does the 
Fronela chapter treat it as "obvious" that Junora is a part of Loskalm 
(though separated from it during the Ban), and similarly as "obvious" that 
Karstall and Timms should be free from Jonatela (*because* separated from 
it during the Ban)?  A somewhat blinkered and pro-expansion Loskalmi author 
is the obvious answer, though there may be others you'd prefer.

What's the most evil thing we ever did in a RQ game?  The most shameful 
betrayal of principles for profit I can think of was when our Lismelder 
clansmen took a damn' fine Heortling warhorse to sell in Runegate.  The 
Lunar Etyries merchant offered us a significantly higher price than the 
local Issaries guy (several cows!), so after a brief soul-search we sold it 
to him instead.  "Selling to Issaries" is like "Buying British" -- not 
worth the effort any more, given foreign competition.

> By the by, I read and enjoyed your review of King of Sartar
> in TotRM.  So what the heck do you think happened in the end? 
> How and why did Argrath change magic and the gods?

Thanks!  I can't claim any Deep Thoughts on this one, but will try:

The "How" is simple: he screwed up!
The "Why" rather goes by the board after that.

You'll have read my theories before now about Argrath as the White Emperor; 
that he deliberately created the White Moon from the shattered carcass of 
the Red Moon.  Note that the Dragonewt Utuma ritual is always used to 
create something from destruction.  Of course, it's possible that Argrath 
screwed this up too: he doesn't seem to get much right!  (Possible 
pro-Lunar bias, here).

Why do I see Argrath as an Emperor?  Well, as you read through the 
Annotated Argrath's Saga, you'll notice A. gradually drifting away from 
Orlanthi norms.  He takes many wives, one from each kingdom -- this is a 
Yelmic custom (many husbands wd be Esrolite).  In his battle against Sheng 
he is said to "raise his royal light" -- not very Orlanthi!

If pushed, I'd theorise that this is because Yelmic culture is a 
predecessor to Orlanthi -- through the order of elemental evolution, if 
nothing else.  You get a situation like that in the (historic) Dark Ages, 
when barbarians everywhere *know* that there used to be one Emperor ruling 
the world, whatever they get up to now.  Argrath drifts towards this to 
conquer the Empire.

In the end, perhaps aided by the same Lunar secret that Sheng Seleris 
wrestled from the Red Emperor in the Third Wane and later used to set 
himself up as last of the Red Emperors (cf. AAS, though how and when 
Argrath stole this secret from Sheng has been lost -- he certainly had 
opportunities), Argrath adopts or adapts the Lunar Way for himself.

So, in year 27 of the Eighth (and Last) Wane (= 1652 ST), Argrath tears 
down and replaces the Red Moon with the White.  I ignore the silly dates in 
KoS: they plainly don't work.  The temporal confusion is caused by the 
disruptive actions of Lunar chronomancers in the face of calamity.  The 
Empire could plainly only last for one "Rising" half-Wane, seven "Phased" 
Wanes, and one "Falling" half-Wane, as anyone with a grasp of Lunar dating 
will readily concede.

Enough for now.

Nick



---------------------

~From: sogcity@aol.com
~Subject: Various Replies
Message-ID: <9305102050.tn53599@aol.com>
~Date: 11 May 93 00:50:33 GMT

Replies from Mike Dawson to various postings from the past few 
days.

Paul Reilly
Ultimately, of course, it is your Glorantha, and the Etyries cult in your 
world can have Mr. Fusion Home Reactors if you want. I've certainly 
seen other writeups of "gloranthan" games that did *more* violence 
to my (terribly strict) interpretation of the world than letting the red 
feathers have real ledger books.
However, I think it is very important that anyone who puts 
something into Glorantha think through what it means, and that is 
why I brought it up. While it is a fallacy to think that every NPC 
should be mentally tested with a "what would a PC with these skills 
do?" test, it is still important to have a reason and rationale for why 
the Etyries merchant monoply is NOT running the whole world.
The answer may be as simple as "They don't run it YET, but that's 
because double entry bookkeeping is a recent invention."
 
By way of illustration:
Greg Maples non-gloranthan RQ game had two major political entitites, 
the Shokathi Empire and the Vugic State. The Shokathi were long 
term planners, massive resource allocators, with a steady pace to their 
unified, ancient activities. Rather like gentlement of the Roman Empire. 
The Vu were the upstart heretical new guys, with more energy than a 
New York stockbroker on cocaine, always working the thin margins, 
always turning around their plans in a few weeks, etc. The Vu had a 
merchant god (as best I can figure, they actually seemed to just worship 
gold) who was *literally* the patron and protector of the secrets of 
double entry bookkeeping. If you weren't in the cult, you could not 
manage to comprehend the necessity of recording every transaction in 
BOTH columns. Even when a cult member showed you  the books.
 
That's how important I think such an invention is.
 
On Laws of Magic and Glorantha
 
You are very close Paul, to what is already under consideration for 
inclusion as optional rules in RQ IV. When you read/play my 
scenario in Shadows on the Borderlands, you may see several 
examples of the laws of magic in action in Glorantha.

By the way, Stafford confirms that the basic laws of magic, (Similarity, 
Contagion, Names, etc) DO work in Glorantha. However, they vary by 
culture and so are not immutable facets of the monmagical world, as 
more or less proposed by Bonewitz.
 
Stephen (?) Hunt (?)   (I forget the name)
on non-linear scenarios

I heartily agree. My favorite method of starting a campaign (or being 
in one as a player) is to set everything up, then see where the PCs run. 
I HATE being led by the nose, or having to lead. 

At the risk of self promotion, take a look at Gaumata's Vision
 in Shadows on the Borderlands. It is 
so non-linear that Ken added a special warning about the ref needing 
to read over it several times before trying to play it. That's because the 
action will almost certainly not follow the order of presentation.
 
Mark Sabaluska (sorry about the spelling)
 
Thanks for the kind words. I am heartened to see that other people 
like the way I run (and write) games. Gaumata's Vision started off as a 
warm up for the playtest of the Sun County manuscript . No room for 
it in the SC book, so first Ken suggested a teaser scenario in some 
magazine, and then it worked its way into the format for Shadows, on 
the way gaining 10,000 words.
 I hope that G's Vision gives refs an idea of the kind of set up they can 
start a run with. I think that about 70% of the written scenario just 
comes from having to decide what various people in town do when 
the Secret Thing occurs. All I had to ask myself was, "If (Secret Thing) 
occurs, how does that affect everyone around it?" From there, my 
understanding of Glorantha took over. It was great fun to run, and my 
PCs actually got things Exactly Right and solved the problem with zero 
loss of party and a nearly seamless tie up of loose ends. When Oliver 
Jovanovic playtested it, he got _entirely_ different situations, equally 
exciting. I love it.

M >|<

---------------------

~From: wroberts@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William C Robertson)
~Subject: I didn't read the review in TotRM, but...
Message-ID: 
~Date: 10 May 93 16:10:09 GMT

>By the by, I read and enjoyed your review of King of Sartar
>in TOTRM.  So what the heck do you think happened in the end?
>How and why did Argrath change magic and the gods?

     Argrath commands cosmic dragons to destroy the Red Moon.
When they do this the Storm Dragon wraps itself around the Red
Moon, and the Mover of Heaven joins in and destroys the it.
(King of Sartar pp. 38-39) I see this as the culmination of
Argrath's recreation of the Lightbringers quest through
heroquest.  Huh!?!  Well, on the simplest level, the Red Moon
replaces the devil.  The Storm Dragon takes the place of the web
that trapped the devil, and the Mover of Heaven represents
Arachne Solara, who, as we know devoured Wakboth.

     I see the latter part of Argrath's life as an extended
ritual reenactment of the Lightbringers quest.  Perhaps it's too
strange, but Argrath was deeply associated with dragons, and
dragons are extremely bizarre.

     When Orlanth undertook the Lightbringers Quest, it was to
save the world from destruction caused by chaos that had seeped
into the world.  Chaos was introduced into the world because of
the actions of the gods, and in the end they agreed that the only
way to prevent their mutual destruction was to limit the way in
which they interact with the world.  The gods agreed that they
would not interfere with the "mundane" plane of Glorantha, unless
the destruction of the world was threatened. (I'm a Gloranthan
theist at heart)

     Argrath was reenacting Lightbringers Heroquest on a scale
that had never been done since Orlanth completed it.  (although
the scale of Argrath's effort don't come near the original)  In
his efforts he lost some of his ability to exercise his free
will, much like Arkat lost himself in his efforts.  So, in the
end he had to make an agreement similar to the original so as to
save the world from destruction.  Argrath had to agree on the
part of the mortal races that they would not interfere with
Godtime.

     Does this mean that people can never Heroquest again?  No, I
don't see it that way, but I do see greater limitations upon what
can be accomplished with heroquesting, and I also see
heroquesting as becoming nigh impossible. (as if it weren't
difficult enough already)  Does this mean that the god's won't be
worshipped as before?  Mostly no.  The agreement is to keep
mortals from endangering the universe, and normal worship does
not do that.  Is my theory full of holes?  Yes, but I like it.
It lets me continue a campaign without significant disruption.
Would I like for you to point out all of the mistakes?  Yes, I
would love that more than anything else.

Thanks for your time and patience,
Bill

From runequest Sat May 15 10:27:34 1993
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---------------------

~From: jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
~Subject: ranting
Message-ID: <9305102308.AA12490@hp2.zycor.lgc.com>
~Date: 10 May 93 23:08:16 GMT

Brace yourselve, this is long, and a bit of a rant at times:

>>  From: eco0kkn@cabell.vcu.edu (Kirsten K. Niemann)
>>  Subject: On "double Entry"
>>  Date: 3 May 93 16:29:22 GMT
>>  
>>  D.E.B. is another example of things from the modern world that
>>  someone might try to sneak into Glorantha without thinking of the
>>  repercussions. It reminds me of an austrailian con scenario submitted

Remember, though, that Glorantha is _not_ just Bronze Age earth. Some 
things will be different. Many will be similar. Differences such as book-
keeping styles will change and distort commerce and culture, but not nearly 
so much as the pervasive magic which we are willing to accept.


>>  From: timp@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Tim Posney)
>>  Subject: Re:  RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 03 May 1993, part 1
>>  Date: 4 May 93 18:28:07 GMT
>>  
>>  >From: peterw@computer-science.manchester.ac.uk (Peter Wake)
>>  >Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 01 May 1993, part 1
>>  >Date: 1 May 93 22:31:37 GMT
>>  >
>>  >At first I found it hard to believe that RoC had sold poorly.
>>  >Why?  Because every shop I know that got copies in sold out of them in
>>  >a the first two days.  Virgin in Manchester sold out very fast.  I had

To the faithful (that's us, guys).


>>  I think the poor sales of the modules represents an accumulated lack of
>>  interest in Runequest by the general gaming public. Moduels like this will

Also, RuneQuest just doesn't get the display space. It's not Basements & 
Basilisks, it's not , it's art just isn't catchy 
enough (NOTE: I really liked the Sun County cover: A-, though I'd only give 
River of Cradles a B or B- it seems too static, and there's nothing to draw 
interest, like the Sun Dome on SC.).

Also most of the stuff comes in boxes. I like having boxes, but if boxes imply
that the entire range get's chucked in the bookshelves w/ the "Bookcase" and 
other wargames, then it just won't sell. Sun County's art is not displayed, 
when all you see is the spine, and .5x11 inches just isn't much display space.


>>  From: DO9EA00@sysa.computing-services.manchester-metropolitan-university.ac.uk
>>  Subject: Being Gregged!
>>  Date: 4 May 93 07:04:17 GMT
>>
>>  editors but reflect the point that if five people witness a given event then
>>  in the end their will be five (or six) conflicting views on what actually
>>  happened.

recommended viewing: Rashomon, directed by Akira Kurosawa


>>  From: ade@insignia.co.uk (Adrian Brownlow)
>>  Subject: RQ on CD ROM
>>  Date: 4 May 93 02:51:18 GMT
>>  
>>  
>>  There is a way to raise the level of awarness of glorantha which was used to
>>  hype D&D that is to write fantasy novels about it. Look how much interest the
>>  Dragon Lance books generated in D&D, a couple of GOOD books set in glorantha
>>  which gave a real feel for the place should create the kind of interest we need
>>  ie new, young players. (Obviously you'd have to get a decent author). By the
>>  way I'm not suggesting a Gloranthan Dragon Lance because they were bloody awful
>>  - they should be aimed at people with a reading age of >3.

Agreed! Other _good_ games (my definition) have done this. There are two novels,
printed by _real_ (well, kinda) publishers set on Tekumel (E.P.T.). They're not
great, but they're decent. And they add a great deal of color and richness to 
the way the people live, how they think, etc.


>>  From: P.A.Snow@gdr.bath.ac.uk (P A Snow)
>>  Subject: Selling RQ/Glorantha
>>  Date: 4 May 93 14:06:15 GMT
>>
>>       I think that in order to promote the long term interests of RQ that the
>>  subscribers to this list should think about the best way to sell RQ to the
>>  current roleplaying market not to people like themselves who are already long
>>  term fans of the system. In fact, I think that the tone of the discussion in
>>  this group has at times been very self-serving when the expertise from this
>>  group should be used to help develop the long time future of RQ.  Altruistic

If the gloranthan die-hards, and old-timers (including me) get exactly what we 
want and need _for_ourselves_, we'll get it for a few months or a year. Then RQ 
and Glorantha will be gone, and we won't need a renaissance, we'll need a 
resurrection.


>>       It seems to me that there are two ways to introduce background into any
>>  game. There is "hard" technical background and there is atmospheric getting the
>>  feel of it background that I will refer to as "soft" background. Now the desire
>>  in this group for a large, comprehensive cults write up without any adventures
>>  etc. is an appeal for a lot of hard background. I understand why you want this
>>  because as a player of Empire of The Petal Throne I found that once I
>>  understood the feel of Tekumel the S&G background books that are all just
>>  background were invaluable.  However, this information was not being fully used
>>  or understood until I got the feel for Tekumel from reading the recent

BTW: Interesting coincidence. Rob Smith and I had a similar discussion regarding 
     the background-style differences between EPT, et al and RQ/Glorantha on the 
	 same day.


What we need is a mix. Though I like Tekumel, I find the detail-orientation of 
the sourcebooks to be overkill. I have a better idea of what grains are eaten 
with which hand than I do why people believe in a God. I get very little of 
any big picture, which would be understood by an inhabitant of Tekumel. Most 
of those materials are written by a scholar in a quasi-scholarly fashion. 

Instead of a creation myth, we get a science-fiction-science description of the 
origin of the world. Problem: that would be meaningless to any of the inhabitants 
of that culture. Instead of a description of the _religions_, we get a description
of the _temple_ (as in organization charts, tables of priests levels, etc.)
Problem: yawn....

The society is intricate in both it's creation and in it's dissection.
In the end, it seems pretty lifeless.

Glorantha is a bit more type B personality.

It's all over the place. It's messy, inconsistent. There's soft background (the 
useful parts of Cults of Prax, Biturian's tales, What my Father Told Me,...), 
and there's hard stuff too (who gets which spells, all of GoG,...).

My feelings lean toward scenarios to draw in the newbies, and background through 
examples, stories, _anything_ but rules. Suggestion, try something like Cults of 
Prax again, but this time:
	Book One: The Cults - histories, theology, the essence of the religions. 
						  Add in commentary by people of different regions and 
						  religions, and paint a picture of the cult
	Book Two: Scenarios - an expanded version of Biturian's tales, with the 
                          events crafted into scenarios and scenario hooks

I'm not saying necessarily rebuild Cults of Prax, but how about doing a Cults of
the Red Moon that way?


>>  Adventures On Tekumel books. These books are full of soft background in
>>  passages that are descriptions of walking round a city, going shopping and
>>  going to a Temple etc. (The overall structure is a solo adventure that you use

One big reason that Glorantha may seem had to get is that there isn't much 
by way of how people live in print. We have scenarios coming out our butts, 
and a laundry list of cults, but how do people _live_? 

Whereas the Tekumel background tells us _how_ poeple live. 
It just doesn't tell us why.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-     -     -     -     ---john j medway-----------     -     -     -     -
--   - -   - -   - -   ---jmedway@zycor.lgc.com--- -   - -   - -   - -   --
--- -   - -   - -   - ---landmark/zycor----------   - -   - -   - -   - ---
----     -     -     ---512/292-2325------------     -     -     -     ----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



---------------------

~From: gal502@huxley.anu.edu.au (Graeme Lindsell)
~Subject: Loskalm, Humakt, Humakti and ZZ
Message-ID: <9305111121.AA23654@cscgpo.anu.edu.au>
~Date: 11 May 93 15:27:13 GMT

 Loskalm & Nick Brooke: You really don't like Loskalm much, do you?
I thought the Genertela pack went out of its way to make it a 
wonderful place to be. Where would you rather live as a peasant:
Loskalm, Junora or Seshnela?

 I see Loskalm more like early Islam: "There is no god but the
Invisible God, and Malkion and Hrestol are his prophets!" is 
IMO a Hrestoli oath (The Brithini and Rokari don't revere Hrestol).
Islam was very progressive for its time, the Islamic countries
of the middle ages were much more advanced than the European ones, 
and for all their laws about not trusting infidels, were more 
tolerant to minorities like the Jews. Their problem was their
expansionism, and I see this as Loskalm's as well.

 Put yourself in the place of a Loskalmi leader, and look at the
nations around Loskalm. Their rulers oppress their peasants like 
slaves or animals: you have risen from the peasantry yourself.
Their cities are walled prisons, yours are centres of trade and 
civilization. It could only be for the good of the great majority
of the people of those nations if they were to be conquered by
Loskalm.

 On a more local level, many of your more ambitious Farmers 
wish to rise to Soldiers; a war would placate them, and give them
an opportunity to prove themselves.

 I don't think there is any need to think anything is going on 
behind the scenes in Loskalm: I am sure all of the Loskalmi leaders,
and probably most of the other castes, would openly support the 
conquest of Fronela, and I think the Kingdom of War will be the 
first conquest.

 (I don't think the Hrestoli could lose to the Kingdom of War:
they are more advanced technically, magically, socially and
militarily, and they outnumber the Kindom of War as well. Add
to that the support of the entire populace, and I don't think
Loskalm can lose.)

 Loskalm has i) a large population, ii) the belief, and evidence 
for that belief (standard of living, technology) that they are
more advanced than their neighbours and iii) a religion/social
system that requires military success for advancement. This
is a recipe for. They may be insular and isolationist now, but the 
Syndics ban has only just ended in historical terms.

Humakti and ZZ cultists:
> I thought Allan's despcription of Humakti was great but I have to
>show the ZZ side of things (we like to play Uz around here):
>
>>Humakti:     "Hey, you spilt my pint."
>>Zorak Zoran: "Aye, I did. It was on purpose, too."
>>Humakti:     "Outside now."

 All the other Humakti in  bar follow him out knowing the ZZ's
cowardly habit of ganging up on lone Humakti cultists.

>>[ 4 or 5 strike ranks later ]...

 If it was a battle of initiates, I'd bet on the ZZ cultists: the 
extra size and strength of the trolls give them the a real edge.
If it was a battle of Rune levels, I'd bet on the Sword: ZZ has
a good array of offensive divine magic, but doesn't give Shield or 
any other defensive rune magic; Humakt gives Shield, re-usable 
Sever Spirit, and of course the human Sword can use iron. 



 Is Humakt a foreign god? Someone (sorry I haven't kept the digest
issue) stated that he Humakt believed to be foreign god to Theyalan 
culture. After initial disbelief I am starting to agree with you
Slipping into God-Learner mode (Damn. This Mac doesn't have a 
Jrusteli font package installed), Humakt seems very alien to the
other gods of the Storm pantheon in both attitudes and powers. He
also, IMHO, seems unnecessary to a pantheon that already has two
war gods, Storm Bull and Orlanth. My GM, while disagreeing with
the foreign god idea, does point out that Humakt seems to share
no myths with other gods: in Orlanthi myths in KoS he only rates
a mention a couple of times. I suspect  the "cutting ties with
the Storm Clan" is only a way of explaining the presence of a 
foreign god in the pantheon.

 The person who suggested this idea thought that Humakt could be 
Western in origin. Idea: he was introduced by Arkat ( Humakt =
Human-Arkat ?) Arkat is called Humaktsson by the Orlanthi, since
"he bore the Unbreakable Sword". The only reference to pre-Time 
worship of Humakt that I recall was a mention that ancient 
carvings often  portray Storm Bull fighting Humakt. Can 
anyone give any other references? Of course, the Elmal/Yelmalio
change seems to justify the retroactive change of beliefs in 
any Gloranthan culture. Flames and other comments on this topic
welcome.

 Final Humakti idea for today: do you think that Humakt should
be associated with Eurmal? Eurmal could give Humakt a useful
spell that a good Humakti shoud never use: Lie or Conceal
(Conceal is the spell associated with the thief aspect of
the trickster, so is probably the most appropriate). Better
yet, the Humakti could sacrifice 2 points of power for a random
Trickster spell: only discovers what it is when he tries to cast
it!

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Graeme Lindsell                      Email: gal502@huxley.anu.edu.au
Research School of Chemistry         Phone: (06) 249 3575
Australian National University       Fax:   (06) 249 0750
---------------------------------------------------------------------


---------------------

~From: etlanmy@aachen.ericsson.se (Allan Murphy)
~Subject: Humakt vs ZZ
Message-ID: <9305111320.AA29542@aachen.ericsson.se>
~Date: 11 May 93 17:20:00 GMT


paul@phyast.pitt.edu writes :

>  I thought Allan's despcription of Humakti was great but I have to
> show the ZZ side of things (we like to play Uz around here):

Out of interest, do a lot of RQers play Uz ? I thought it'd be kinda fun,
but our group play a continuing saga type game with the same PCs throughout,
and at the moment, the party of adventurers is bound by hatred of trolls,
so somehow none of us have the stomach for it.

> >Humakti:     "Hey, you spilt my pint."
> >Zorak Zoran: "Aye, I did. It was on purpose, too."
> >Humakti:     "Outside now."
> >[ 4 or 5 strike ranks later ]
>    ZZ comes back in along with a dozen or two of his mates and  a
> squashed body.

Of course you forgot to mention there were 5 or 6 dozen of his mates to
start with, you big troll pansy. Oops, sorry, getting into character a bit
there. Guess what kind of character I play ?

mace@lum.asd.sgi.com (Rob Mace) writes:

> Every Humakti will develop their own line for how much of a chance they
> feel they need to give others before they kill them.  At this point my
> Humakti Hero will explain to the offending party that he will kill them
> if they do that again.  Just telling them to step out side he considers
> about equivalent to an ambush as he would really not be giving them any
> type of chance.

Personally, I play a young Humakti hothead initiate ( more sword attack that
sense :-)  who would probably take them outside to prove a point. He has a bit
to learn about being a true Humakti. Besides, the Zorak Zorani said he spilt
the pint on purpose, he was asking for it....

[ Humakti dilemma situations removed ]

What does a Humakti do in something like a mass melee, where other Humaktis
may be outnumbered ? How does he help out his comrades without effectively
carrying out an ambush ( attack from behind, etc ) ? Or does he just say
'Oh well, no death, no life' and let the other Humakti prove themselves by
skill alone ?

DO9EA00@sysa.computing-services.manchester-metropolitan-university.ac.uk writes:
( no name, let's just called him The Bloody Handed Slaughter )

> Allan Murphy writes conserning an slight argument between a Zorak Zoran
> worshiper and a Humakti. Having pitted serveral ZZ worshipers against
> Humakties our market research department indicates the following conversation

That isn't the notorious Castle of Lead Lies'n'Disorder Marketing Board is it ?

> Humakti: "You spilled my mineral water"
> ZZ: "Yes I meant to and just to prove i did"(ZZ Eats the horn drinking vessel)
> Humakti: "Step outside"
> [4/5 strike ranks later]
> ZZ: "Barman, could I have a nice chianti to wash down this Humakti's heart."

Hmm, musta been a lay member :-(
Anyhow, you don't see gangs of Humakti prowling around on their high holy
day, looking for a single troll to outnumber, do you. Ooh look, a troll
without his gang....scary !

Anyway, enough bickering about religion. I'd be interested to see descriptions
of RQ PCs that people play ( or favourite PCs ) - often you can gather a
lot of the flavour of other peoples campaigns or whatever.

Ok, so I'll start. I currently play a 23 year old Humakti initiate called
Marlin. He has yet to 'earn' himself a second name through some great deed.
He killed a vampire ( by pure luck ) but Vampireslayer seemed a bit...well,
pretentious to him. He is from a farming background, and is constantly teased by
the 48 year old Sword/Sage in the adventuring group about being a 'farmboy'.
'Old git' is a common reply. He owns a bastard sword with two Truesword
matrices in it ( his most prized possession ), a pair of dark shades stolen
from a dead troll from the Sazdorf clan ( he didn't kill the troll though ! )
and an iron heater. He has an iron broadsword too, but prefers the bastard
sword for 'payback time', in his own words. He currently lives in Garhound
where he has established a small holy place to Humakt with some money he
got for a broo destruction mission.

So there you go ( I didn't want to put too much ! ). Anyone else ?

--
Allan J. Murphy                /   \   "We've got a free pair of flares with
			       \   /    every hip replacement, just take the
etlanmy@aachen.ericsson.se     /   \    stairs down to the bargain basement."

---------------------

~From: awr0@aberystwyth.ac.uk
~Subject: One or two things.
Message-ID: <9305111216.AA07928@uk.ac.aber.fronta>
~Date: 11 May 93 14:16:33 GMT

A friend wanted to know about the Cult of Arkat. Is there one?

Also onto dilemas caused by various situations within a game.

The killing of 'innocent' baby scorpion men. It was rather well played
by our GM, so that only 2 of the 6 players wanted to slice'n dice.

	I think a lot of situations which cause somebody to stop and
think are caused by them thinking more out of character than 
staying in character.

Onto a topic which has me slightly confused. In our campaign 
sorcery has not been introduced and probably will not be 
introduced as the way it works at the moment seems a bit gross
and too complicated. 
	How do people see sorcery fitting into Glorantha. In 
many ways I believe that sorcery is what the God Learners used
and as such it is shunned in many places, if not actively 
erradicated, which is where the invisible god thing came from.
It allowed sorcery to be practised with it being accepted as 
comming from a god. Anybody have any views on this?

Also, the use of sorcery and spirit magic. I would believe that
although a sorcerer can quite happily use matrices, a sorcerer
cannot actually cast spirit magic and cannot sacrifice for 
divine magic (although can use True stone). My reasoning behind
this is based on the idea that once somebody starts down one path
it is difficult if not impossible to change paths. 

Next topic: Countermagic versus Detection Blank

I noticed in ToRM that countermagic was used in one of the 
adventures as a way of fooling Detect spells. I would argue
that only detection blank can hide something away from a 
detect spell, as otherwise, detection blank is a useless spell
and what is the point in learning it?

Adam

---------------------

~From: dickmj@postman.essex.ac.uk
~Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 10 May 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <9305111217.AA03460@serdlc14>
~Date: 11 May 93 12:17:47 GMT

 Hi Henk,

 Just a thought; would it be possible to put an indication of how many
parts the digest is in on each day e.g have '1 of 2' on the first part,
etc, because I keep receiving the first part, and am never sure if
there's a second that I'm missing.

 Thanks

 -Arganth

From runequest Sat May 15 10:27:34 1993
From news@glorantha Tue May 11 17:18:08 1993
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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 11 May 1993, part 4
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This is the automated Daily RuneQuest Digest.

Send submissions only to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they
will automatically be included in a next issue.  Try to change the
~Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily...  on replying.

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---------------------

~From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
~Subject: Humakti and ZZ
Message-ID: <9305111451.AB23750@Sun.COM>
~Date: 11 May 93 06:04:22 GMT

>From: DO9EA00@sysa.computing-services.manchester-metropolitan-university.ac.uk

>our market research department indicates the following conversation

>Humakti: "You spilled my mineral water"
>ZZ: "Yes I meant to and just to prove i did" (ZZ Eats the horn drinking
vessel)
>Humakti: "Step outside"
>[4/5 strike ranks later]
>ZZ: "Barman, could I have a nice chianti to wash down this Humakti's heart."

>Lord Snarltooth Skullcrusher Zorak Zoran Ministry of Truth: Castle of Lead.

My advice is not to mess with anyone who has reusable Sever Spirit and an iron
sword in single combat. In my experience the ZZ great trolls have come off
worse even with the aid of an amubush and superior numbers (it was close though
...)

Also, under the new RQ4 fatigue rules Humakti Swords can recover fatigue by
using only one action in combat.

Thom

    _/    _/  _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/  _/    Human Cognition Research Lab
   _/    _/  _/        _/    _/  _/     The Open University
  _/_/_/_/  _/        _/_/_/_/  _/      Milton Keynes MK7 6AA, U.K.
 _/    _/  _/        _/  _/    _/       Tel: +44 908 65-4518  Fax: -3169
_/    _/  _/_/_/_/  _/    _/  _/_/_/_/  Internet:T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk

---------------------

~From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
~Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 10 May 1993, part 1
Message-ID: 
~Date: 11 May 93 14:51:25 GMT

Has anyone out there run a campaign with worshipers of Lodril, Father of
Volcanos and Peasants?  I am running a campaign where the PCs, primitive
inhabitants of an out-of-the-way region of the already out-of-the-way East
Ilses, have liberated a volcano spirit and now aspire to cultivate worship of
this entity.  These are new players, and I find their ambition commendably in
the spitit of Runequest, but the write-up on Lodril (in "Gods of Glorantha")
- the only god who can provide inspiration for such a cult - is agonizingly
brief.  So, if anyone has any brilliant ideas on the spiritual and earthly
economy of volcanos and Lodril in Glorantha, I'd love your input!  By Friday
- I have to GM this weekend!  -- Greg