From runequest Sat May 15 10:28:22 1993
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From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 14 May 1993, part 1
Precedence: junk
Status: O
This is the automated Daily RuneQuest Digest.
Send submissions only to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they
will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the
~Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying.
Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you
want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at
RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM.
-Henk Langeveld
--
Send Submissions to:
Enquiries to:
The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals
with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of
Glorantha. Maintainer: Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM
---------------------
~From: Pierre.Boulet@lip.ens-lyon.fr (Pierre Boulet)
~Subject: RQ IV
Message-ID: <9305131705.AA16225@lip.ens-lyon.fr>
~Date: 13 May 93 21:05:22 GMT
hello,
I'm a french RQ III player and I've only been a suscriber to the digest for
a few weeks. It is very hard to read you write about RQ IV and not having
a draft. What is the good way to get one? I am really interested in
playtesting it and I think there are some good ideas for what I have seen.
By the way, here is a list of the 'recent' stuff I have been able to find
here in Lyon:
. River of Cradles
. King of Sartar
. a french version of Sun County : Le Comte du Soleil
(most of the french stuff is in hard cover!)
I don't know about RQ II since I'm not an old player of RQ and so I may not have
the current profile of the readers of this mailing list, but I think that
soft background is very important and that RQ IV should adress to new players
and not only to old timers.
-- Pierre
*Reality is for those who can't face Science Fiction*
---------------------
~From: jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
~Subject: Mythic nature of man & magic, file under small green...
Message-ID: <9305131719.AA04472@hp2.zycor.lgc.com>
~Date: 13 May 93 17:19:28 GMT
Bits and pieces from thursday...
Lost the attrib, here:
>> and pretty persuasive. Bill's explanation had never occurred to
>> me, it was a very clever to see the aftermath as an inversion of
>> the great compromise.
This showed off some of the repeated cycles of gloranthan myth quite well.
We've had mortals make gods twice, and break gods twice. We've had the net
of compromise and transformation thrown over the world twice as well.
Like the lightbringer's quest, has the casting of the net be reinacted
for rituals before this?
>> From: mace@lum.asd.sgi.com (Rob Mace)
>> Subject: Humakti and Ducks
>>
>> > Humakti are not afraid of death ( they are death ! )
>>
>> But they do understand the concept of retreating. They generally know that
>> there is nothing to be gained by dying in a hopeless situation(Unless they
>> are serving some sort of purpose, such as in a delaying tactic). If you
>> think that what is gained is the death of the Humakti you are wrong. The
>> death of the Humakti is already guaranteed. Someday he will die. Humakt
>> is the god of death, not the god of death now. He cares not when someone
I heartily agree. I play (and like to see played) humakti as the doomed,
grim warrior. I'm not sure I really like the Clint Eastwood image for that,
but I'm not sure who else I can see playing the part, either. Maybe Jurgen
Procnow in Das Boot, maybe ....
The yahoos of Storm Bull and Zorak Zoran can and will retreat when necessary,
why could (what I consider to be) a more level-headed, rational cult not?
>> Brian Hebert writes:
>> > Hello. I would like to offer the following cult write-up. It is obviously
>> > unofficial and slightly satirical. It is a Duck cult and reflects my
>> > views of ducks in Glorantha; as comic/tragic figures. Weak and maligned,
>> > The Cult of Dha-Naald and Dha-Fhee
>>
>> Except for the name I liked this cult writeup a lot. However I don't see
>> these heros as achieving full cult status. I think that I might use it
>> as a sort of hero sub-cult of both Humakt and Eurmal open only to ducks.
Ditto, but there are _many_ small local godlets/cults worshipped on Glorantha.
They'd definitely be allied with Humakt & Eurmal, but not would not necessarily
be a subset of the same.
>> From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
>> Subject: Yaks and Books and Things That Go Bump
>>
>> No Yaks in Prax . You need to cross the Great Wastes of Genert to find
This brings up an unrelated topic: Anyone know where I can get miniatures
for the more odd riding beasts of Glorantha? I've a fine bison, and a rhino
(courtesy of david gadbois), but I wanna sable - waaaaah! (and the others too...)
>> Mike Dawson / Books:
>>
>> The other is that, if Etyries has DEB, might not Irrippi Ontor have a
>> coherent system for Library classification / referencing? Maybe a
>> Gloranthan version of Dewey? Don't waste my time saying it's
>> anachronistic: with my understanding of the Lunar Way and the things that
>> become possible with state-run cults and loads of mobility through the
>> Empire, this seems plausible to me. Again, Lankhor Mhy sages aren't going
>> to chuck aside their tradition of independent research to jump on a Lunar
>> bandwagon.
Another thing to remember here, about DEB, Dewey Decimal and other innovations:
THE GODS ARE THERE TO TELL THEM HOW. Some chum by the name of Dewey invented
(without a Divination, or D.I.) a library system on earth. Just because our
ancient Greeks, Romans, and others did _not_ have such things, doesn't mean
that another world of _roughly_ equivalent technology _cannot_. Irripi Ontor
was founded as a break-off from LM. This could be a heracy, or foundation for
such a schism.
Just remember to think about and explain what changes this could cause, or
why it hasn't.
>> Paul Reilly / Magic:
>>
>> I am loving your "Laws of Magic" examples. As I understand it, you are
Agreed. There's something wrong with a player saying "I cast Ironhand 4
followed by Coordination". I am _much_ more receptive to a small prayer or
appeal to the spirit of the Jaguar, or whatever.
On a similar note, do you usually have matrices put into appropriate fetishes,
or is a sword considered a hunky-dorey place for a Coordination matrix?
(I'd say explain it & justify it, before allowing it).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- - - - ---john j medway----------- - - - -
-- - - - - - - ---jmedway@zycor.lgc.com--- - - - - - - - --
--- - - - - - - ---landmark/zycor---------- - - - - - - - ---
---- - - ---512/292-2325------------ - - - ----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
~From: awr0@aberystwyth.ac.uk
~Subject: The duck cult
Message-ID: <9305131626.AA07381@uk.ac.aber.fronta>
~Date: 13 May 93 18:26:03 GMT
Impressed, although I would presume that worshippers would still be able
to access Humakt and Eurmal spells. Although a Dha-Feel initiate would
only be able to get Humakt spells and be limited by the code of Humakt.
The meeting at the birth of the race was cut short for some unknown reason
could that bit be resent?
Adam
"Why am I writing to the digest, I have my first exam next thursday!"
---------------------
~From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu
~Subject: Re: Humakti, etc.
Message-ID: <9305131735.AA01537@bondi.phyast.pitt.edu>
~Date: 13 May 93 17:35:10 GMT
Paul Reilly here. Just a couple of quick comments and then it's back to
work.
Rob Mace writes:
>I don't think that Humakt would be a major war god if you saddled his
>worshipers with an inability to retreat
I have to agree here. Note that Humakti are often hired to be officers
of non-Humakti units (I think that's according to Cults of Prax.) They
would be very poor officers if they could not both order a retreat and
go with it themselves to provide leadership to their soldiers. Retreats
are one of the most dangerous manuevers in warfare as they can easily
turn into routs.
If Humakt could not retreat he probably would have disappeared down
Kajabor's maw (or whatever Kajabor has instead) or been destroyed by Wakboth.
Someone with better knowledge of the God's War could perhaps come up with
an example.
Note also that according to the chart in Cults of Terror Humakt is
pretty much neutral against Chaos although he does dislike Mallia
(a competitor) and Krarsht (more on this in another post sometime) and
hates Vivamort (who defies his power). I believe he is neutral toward
Thed and Primal Chaos.
To Nick:
We put in musk oxen people in North Pent (near the White Sea shores)
in our campaign. Our belief is that herding peoples such as the Praxians
evolved from the appropriate Hsunchen type and that the musk oxen people
were in an intermediate stage. (Their great shamans etc. could still
turn into musk oxen but they were beginning to adopt a herding lifestyle
and thus losing their 'natural' powers.) These people did have a great
defensive tactic of standing shoulder to shoulder in a circle but they
were easily outcompeted by the Pentan horse archers, thus they were pushed
up into territory too cold for most horses.
I kind of like the idea of DEB being part of the Nysalor Financial Riddle.
The system is presented and makes no sense at first - then (if a Finance
roll is made) the student sees through to the heart of the system and
gains a 1% chance of Illumination. Those who fail the riddle are shunted
off the fast track I suppose.
>The other is that, if Etyries has DEB, might not Irrippi Ontor have a
>coherent system for Library classification / referencing?
This is something we have postulated. Since a majority or large
plurality of Irripi Ontor sages are associated with a single organization
(the Lunar Empire) we believe that there must be an Empire-wide filing
system that most of them use. Again, we think that like Etyries they
will have access to only some appropriate Common Divine Magic and
their cult special magics, which will not be quite as good as Lhankor Mhy's.
Thus they must have better organization in order to compete. I see this
as a pretty general feature of the Lunars - they may not be individually
a match for the Orlanthi culture hero-types but their organizational skills
and methods are superior.
Magic: If AH allows it we will include the sorceror-artist as an NPC
in an upcoming submission to them. Hopefully he will not be cut to
save space, and his example will serve to inspire others. He is the
sorceror to a mercenary band from Ralios now in Lunar employ, so his
sorcery may provide a bit of a surprise to the Orlanthi around Dragon
Pass. I like the idea of including 'support magicians' as part of military
groups.
Long ago someone published a Piety-driven Byzantine sorcery system. Maybe
something similar could be proposed for Loskalm?
Differential equations in Glorantha? Perhaps on one of the East Isles there
is a Math God and seemingly primitive people live there spending their lives
pursuing topology, differential geometry, etc. Outsiders would see no point
in it all, even less than Comb and Braid.
More later, probably on the weekend. - paul
---------------------
~From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder)
~Subject: Oh Gods
Message-ID:
~Date: 13 May 93 20:12:42 GMT
Oh Gods what a wonderful Digest this is!
Humakt: Humakt is Arkat, mmm, interesting, he certainly feels rather
Western.
Loskalm: The arguement in the digest is probably the same one in the West!
Argrath: Liked the White Emperor arguement of Nick and also the limiting
of mortal power. Want to see the Lunar side tho'.
RQ Publication: I now think AH are doing the right thing. Selling compact
stuff to new people is essential.
Tekumel: Tekumel is also a wonderful world, the later TOME stuff is very
soft, I love both worlds, and yes Tekumel has rather mechanistic religions,
but that's a perspective of the hard sources, a soft source (such as the
novels) feels quite different. Also tekumel does have a sf base line.
New Players: Sexy new rules, lovely art and WE MUST PLAY AT CONS AND
INTRODUCE NEW PLAYERS AT HOME!
Trolls: I've reffed trolls constantly, in fact my new campaign of seven
months is the first human one.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
tzunder@cix.compulink.com.uk
How Illuminating!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From runequest Sat May 15 10:28:22 1993
From news@glorantha Fri May 14 17:17:40 1993
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From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 14 May 1993, part 2
Precedence: junk
Status: O
This is the automated Daily RuneQuest Digest.
Send submissions only to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they
will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the
~Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying.
Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you
want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at
RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM.
-Henk Langeveld
--
Send Submissions to:
Enquiries to:
The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals
with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of
Glorantha. Maintainer: Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM
---------------------
~From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu
~Subject: Re: Storm Bull
Message-ID: <9305132016.AA01703@bondi.phyast.pitt.edu>
~Date: 13 May 93 20:16:10 GMT
Paul Reilly here. Here's a document my friend Finula and I discovered
while exploring Glorantha (she translated it into English with some help
from me.) Your Glorantha may vary...
-----------------------------------------------
>From 72143.1770@compuserve.com Thu May 13 08:51:54 1993
~Date: 13 May 93 08:48:23 EDT
~From: "Michael W. Timpanaro" <72143.1770@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:paul@phyast.pitt.edu"
~Subject: Re: Message for Finula
Content-Length: 4261
I have written up a little thing about bad worship. It could be from
Annelinde or Arafel. If it was Arafel we would have to get the Priestess
of the White Moon stuff cleared first. She does, however, make a good
instigator for the Lunie movement.
On Bad Worship and How it Corrupt the Gods
or
how the gods went wrong
Look at many gods today, and you will find that neither they nor
their worshippers practice what they preach! Orlanth, Zorak Zoran and many
others can be cited as examples.
Look at Orlanth. Everyone is familiar with the credo of Orlanthi
virtues: Generosity, Honor, Piety, Wisdom, Courage, and Justice.
Why is it that these are so little followed? When did Orlanth develop the
philosophy that the end justifies the means? It was not originally a part of
his role as god-king and earth husband.
The problem is Bad Worship. Everyone is aware that worshippers
become more like their gods. However, what is not so well known is that
gods become more like their worshippers. In this way the gods are able to
adapt as populations and cultures change over Time.
Unfortunately, there is a much more dangerous side to this
adaptability. Scholars refer to this as mutation of the godhead through
indiscriminate worship. Worship done simply for the accrual of power on both
sides.
In many societies where a priest's status is based on the number
of worshippers he can accrue, there is a tendency to go out and recruit
bodies. Without due consideration to their nature as individuals, hundreds
and thousands of people are recruited into cults they are not suited for.
The result is tragic. The cost of the ambition of individuals is the
distortion of the very god they serve. Cult leaders may remain true to
their credo; but what good is that when one hundred times their number are
only interested in personal gain? Any shepherd will tell you that what his
animals eat reflects their nature.Why is this basic fact disregarded with
deities? The nature of a god is inevitably forced to change as their
sustenance does. Thus we have an Orlanth who is worshipped more and more
by bandits, brigands and opportunists. People who abandon their families
in times of need to fight in causes that don't concern them; drawn by the
lure of money and fame. They disrupt the cycle of ages and cause untold
harm to their societies.
Zorak Zoran. Humans are not the only guilty parties. Zorak Zoran was
historically reputed to be a god of great cunning as well violence. Today
he is viewed as stupid and brutish. He has been poisoned by Bad Worship.
His cultists have come to be chosen for size and strength rather
than wits and cunning. They have become the witless foils of the Karrg
cult.
This does not need to be the case. Open minds and greater
selectivity in recruitment can restore the strength of the gods. The Uz
should beware the dangers of Bad Worship lest is lead them to unthinkingly
make enemies of those who should be their allies.
In the cult of the Red Goddess we see proper measures taken in the
prevention of the corruption of her True Nature. Firstly, to join her cult
an individual must be illuminated. Only an illuminate is truly free. He is
free from the coercive powers of the gods and thus his relationship must
be one of mutual respect. This is not to say, sadly, that the ranks of the
illuminated are entirely free from corruption. Free will is more than some
people can bear and remain sane. This brings about the second control on
membership. The Court of Inquiry. All applicants to the cult are closely
examined. In fact, one cannot actually apply, they must be invited. People
who are not sound in mind and like to the goddess in though and spirit
will be excluded. The Red Goddess chooses freedom over strength, even for
herself. She does not need to be able to threaten and cajole her cultists
because they all share her goals. They are free people who have joined to
support the greater good for all.
What do you think. I think that this could make a good propaganda handout.
If it was from Arafel it would have to include how Orlanth has gone so far
as to corrupt Storm Bull Cultists into trusting Orlanthi oration more than
they trust their god given senses.
But I think it would be better to have a separate Annelinde
writeup about Storm Bull.
Love Finula
>From 72143.1770@compuserve.com Thu May 13 14:07:43 1993
~Date: 13 May 93 14:03:11 EDT
~From: "Michael W. Timpanaro" <72143.1770@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:paul@phyast.pitt.edu"
~Subject: Re: Message for Finula
Content-Length: 4043
Here's the Storm Bull Propaganda
~From:
Felonius Monk, Deputy Director, Society for the Propagation of the Lunar Way
To:
All Provincial District Chiefs
Enclosed find 49 copies of Document SB - 11017. Take action according
to the classification of your District as described below.
Fully Pacified Districts:
You are to distribute these notices to your underlings
to post in prominent places in your districts. Produce additional
copies as required and if these are destroyed by weathering or vandalism
repost copies. These notices fall under category J and thus a fine of up
to seven Imperials* or equivalent goods or labor may be levied upon those who
deface or destroy the.
Assign expendible personnel to read these in suitable public places as
much of our target audience is illiterate. Our research indicates that low
taverns and mercenary hiring halls are among the best places to locate the
desired audience. Readings are to be aborted only if public disorder
threatens. Readers should be hired through a cut-out and appear unconnected
with the Empire as a whole. Moneys used for this purpose should be traceable
only to the True Knowledge Foundation rather than Imperial funds
Sensitive and Unpacified Areas
Use agents to disseminate this information as rumor rather than public
readings.
All hail the Red Moon! - F.M.
*Imperials = Lunars in this case.
___________________________________________________________________________
( Bull Head Logo )
How Storm Bull Cultists Have Been Deceived by Orlanth Worshippers
Storm Bull is without a doubt one of the most important gods in
Glorantha today. After all, none of us would now exist if he hadn't saved
the world from the Devil. His cult today still fights chaos wherever they
find it, helping to keep the world safe for those who are themselves less
able or brave.
Yet this cult is disapproved of in the Lunar empire. It may even
be banned. Why?
Because the cultists of the Storm Bull have been deceived into
directing their energies against the wrong target.
The cult of Orlanth has chosen to establish itself as the rival of
the Lunar Empire. Peace and security for all does not mesh well with
notions of regularly raiding and looting one's neighbors. The cult of
Orlanth has taken advantage of their elemental association with Storm Bull
to use the cult against the Lunar Empire.
Time and again, a Windlord will gather a band of trusting Storm
Bulls, tell them a Lunar caravan contains chaotic items, then stand back
while they kill innocent people and take all the blame.
The Storm Bulls survivors are forced to flee, the Windlord gets
the loot, innocent locals suffer Lunar reprisals for the outrage. The
Orlanthi then go amongst the suffering and recruit new members for their
"just cause". The cycle is repeated elsewhere. Storm Bulls are killed in a
fight that is not against chaos. Only the cult of Orlanth and the forces
of chaos profit from this.
The Orlanthi say they can point to chaotic entities in the Lunar
service. They say that all illuminates are chaotic and there is no way to
sense it.
Nonsense!
It is true that there are chaotic entities in the Lunar Empire;
but this is not because the Red Goddess embraces chaos. It is because,
through the guidance of Arachne Solara Herself, the Red Goddess is healing
these people of the chaotic taint.
But they still look strange?
This is true. But so does every foreigner. So do the Uz. Do you
wish to call them chaotic? No race fights it more fiercely.
There is only one certain way to determine whether or nothing
something is chaotic. Appearance is not a guide, the beautiful can be
chaotic and the ugly can be good. Only the divine senses of the Storm Bull
can tell for sure. The Orlanthi claim that Illumination hides chaos is not
only absurd, it is insulting to the great Storm Bull. Causing Storm Bulls
to doubt their god and their senses is the work of Gbaji.
Through Illumination a chaotic entity can be cured of the chaos
taint. He may still have strange attributes, but he is now a harmonious
part of Gloranthan life. He now has the ability to choose to be good or
evil, but so do all men.
This is why there are chaotic entities in the Lunar Empire. They
are in the process of being cured. It can take years. The way of the Red
Goddess is different from the way of Storm Bull; but they both want the
same thing when it comes to chaos. The Goddess simply prefers to use more
gentle methods whenever possible.
Storm Bulls everywhere should beware these false Orlanthi who
claim that they know the face of chaos better than does the Storm Bull.
Remember that it was Orlanth's actions that let a large part of It into
the world. Do not be used as tools in political games. Fight chaos where
it breeds. Do not look for it in cities. In the Wastes, in Dilis, in
Snake Pipe Hollow,in Dorastor if you dare.
Do not be deceived. Trust the senses given you by the Bull.
---------------------
~From: okamoto@hpcc90.corp.hp.com (Jeff Okamoto)
~Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 12 May 1993, part 2
Message-ID: <9305132155.AA26385@hpcc90.corp.hp.com>
~Date: 13 May 93 21:55:33 GMT
> From: hebert@uclink.berkeley.edu (Brian Hebert)
> Subject: Submission for Digest
>
> The Cult of Dha-Naald and Dha-Fhee
There's also the cults of Quackodemon, Ty Kora Quack, Humquack, and the
ever-fearsome Quackboth.
Jeff
---------------------
~From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
~Subject: Strength through Joy, and other trivia
Message-ID: <930513213540_100270.337_BHB91-1@CompuServe.COM>
~Date: 13 May 93 21:35:40 GMT
_____________________
for Mark Sabalauskas:
You ask me, "What biases do you attribute to the authors of the other
chapters?" To be honest, I attribute Greg's personal biases to all of
them. But Loskalm, perhaps as a product of his youthful idealism, is the
only case where I think his even-handedness fails to deliver. That is to
say, the other regions tend to be portrayed more "neutrally"; Loskalm in
Fronela is presented as something close to perfection.
Best case in point is the description of Jonating culture: "The ruling
class has an iron grip upon the populace. No guild councils protest these
lords' taxes, and when peasants revolt they are routinely slaughtered.
Great castles are built spanning the walls of most cities: signs of
terrible oppression."
Now, I ask you: is this fair comment? Our author expects to find "guild
councils" wherever he goes, and blames the iniquities of Jonatela on their
"ruling class". Ergo, he comes from a place where they have the former but
not the latter. Looks to me like a Loskalmi so blinded by the virtues of
his own social system that he looks for it everywhere he goes.
Contrast with this: I don't notice anybody whinging about the absence of
guild councils in neighbouring Lankst. Sure, you could use the argument
from silence: no complaint about their lack down South, therefore they must
be there. I'd rather use the argument from noise: somebody is complaining
about their absence up North, therefore there's something fishy about our
Northern source.
As for the right to independence of areas separated by the Ban, my
interpretation hinges on the implications of what Stafford says and leaves
unsaid. Y'see, I'd say that it would be as valid to write in the section
about the Kingdom of the Jonatings a note saying that "Parts of Karstall
and Timms are not controlled by the Kingdom of Jonatela, but are similar in
culture..." But our author hasn't done so. Why not? They are, surely, at
least as much as Junora is to Loskalm?
Likewise, nobody says the walls of Segurane are "signs of terrible
oppression"; but then, in Loskalm, "the old castles which used to mark the
oppression and warlike nature of the nobility have largely been
abandoned..."
What happens in Fronela is that we're given a contrasting picture of
Loskalm (Good) v. Jonatela (Bad). The linguistic parallel in both
descriptions of castles = oppression clinches it for me. Could be that I
spent too long at University poring over the nuances of Dark Age authors.
But that course taught me how to approach the interpretation of scattered
and contradictory sources. Which is what we find in Glorantha.
So my "imputation of unreliability to the Gernertela [sic] Book" stops at
the interpretation of nuances and matters of opinion. But then, while I
guess we all agree on the geography ("Pavis on the Oslir"? A cheap gibe),
there are some Gloranthan "facts" about which everyone ought to make up
their own mind: who is "right" and who is "wrong", for example. I am
trying to make a case against the Hrestoli / Loskalmi Crusade as a
potential Bad Thing. Like I said the other day, nobody else seems
particularly bothered by them.
Why do I dislike them? I tend to distrust ideologies with expansionistic
tendencies and no proven track record for talking to foreigners. I loathed
Sir Meriatan's pious smugness from the moment I read it. As I've said
before, I find the Loskalmi social system as written deeply implausible,
and therefore suspect that it doesn't work as well as we are led to
believe. (Can you tell me how Loskalmi family life works? At what age is
the Duke's son sent out to work in the fields? And does he really never
see his parents again?).
Then my suspicions get honed by unfortunate convergences of imagery.
Loskalm is in a part of the world where Valkyries come from; there are deep
pine woods filled with tribes of Slavic Pagans who deserve a good smiting;
the local language is analogous to Gothic/Germanic (as Seshnegi is to
French and Ralian to Italian); the Blessing of Saint Talor (cf. RQ Digest
VII.1) might usefully be called "Strength Through Joy"; there's all that
handy and apposite National Socialist "non-decadent" art of knights in
shining armour, happy peasants at work in the fields, crowds chanting "Hail
Hrestol!" or whatever you prefer. Et cetera .
Still, coming from John Major's Britain, I may find it less easy to get
into the skull of a guy who "is utterly confident in his land's ability to
overcome everyone and everything with military might" than you Yanks. Hope
it works for you in Bosnia / Junora .
_____
"Can I bomb people you don't know?"
Sure you can! Everyone else seems to be doing it!
Yours, with thanks for a good argument,
====
Nick
====
>> DEATH TO FANATICS <<
______________________
for Joerg Baumgartner:
> "I disliked the Orlanth writeup in River of Cradles.
> Is this just Praxian? Where has Orlanth Rex gone?
> What about priests/acolytes of Orlanth Adventurous,
> or Lords of Orlanth Thunderous?"
In RQ3, cult ranks are rather more restricted than in RQ2. Compare with
the absence of Humakt / Storm Bull Rune Priests, or Chalana Arroy / Lankhor
Mhy Rune Lords. I prefer it this way, though I'd still urge any GM to
flexibility when deciding what is or is not possible.
Per the Cults Book write-up (which is followed in River of Cradles, and in
Heroes magazine's full version of Orlanth which included Rex details),
*any* Rune Lord of Orlanth is a Wind Lord of Orlanth Adventurous; *any*
Rune Priest of Orlanth is a Storm Voice of Orlanth Thunderous. Orlanth Rex
is omitted from River of Cradles (as you guessed) because, as the god of
barbarian tribal kings, he is not appropriate to the Praxian setting.
Unfortunately, though, the remaining cult aspects are only described in
their Sartarite/barbarian context, which highlights this omission.
I'd say you should take this (or any other cult write-up) with a pinch of
salt. If you come from a place with really heavy weather, why shouldn't
the Thunderous cult there have "Storm Lords" of its own? Flex the main
cult's powers the same way you'd vary the availability of subcults and
associated cults to suit your preferences. Could be as easy or as
difficult as you want it to be.
> "I also dislike the great step between initiates
> and acolytes in general. Reusable divine magic
> oughn't be given freely, but do you really have to
> fulfil full priestly requirements to get some?
> (I noticed that even in RQ3, most Rune Lords have
> little or no access to reusable spells)."
Yeah. I'd suggest making initiate-style "one-use" Rune magic regainable on
the High Holy Day. You'd have to couple this with a trimming of
eligibility to POW gain rolls unless you want to unbalance everything
badly, but as the POW gain is my most hated RQ mechanic after strike ranks,
that doesn't hurt the game too badly.
Effects are:
(1) People who do what God wants them to do are no longer penalised for it.
Take any two Storm Bulls. Which will become a Khan first? The one who
berserks least often (because of the need to save up 10 points of Rune
magic). What will he do as soon as he becomes a Khan? Start berserking
all the time. If that makes sense, I'm a Dutchman .
(2) Characters do not completely change their nature on crossing to Rune
level. They'll already have got the hang of casting Rune magic at
important moments, and won't find it such a shock to have access to loads
of power.
(3) Initiates will be walking around with more, different Rune spells in
their portfolios. After all, who really needs six castings of Truesword?
Once you have enough "basic" Rune magic, you can start sacrificing for the
stuff it would be "nice to have, but..." in a normal RQ game.
(4) Cultists will become *really* dangerous either side of their High Holy
Days. Before it, if they've any Rune spells left, they "might as well"
cast them given the opportunity. After it, they're tanked up and ready to
roll. Seems to fit the observed facts...
This makes the mechanical unpleasantness of "acolytes" almost unnecessary:
perhaps that's a name for an initiate who can regain "one-use" Rune magic
every season? Eligibility for which benefit I'd leave up to you GMs out
there.
Well, it's only a suggestion.
(If Argrath can change the way magic works, why can't I?).
You also talked about a "non-theistic" Kingdom of War. That's my favoured
approach to it: the "Hundred Gods" being different regimental insignia,
traditions of fighting, and the like, interpreted through a RQ world-view.
Leave off the Beast Masks, but otherwise run them as the Dark Empire of
Granbretan.
(Shit, Mark S. will kill us for doubting the Genertela Book's word! ).
___________________
for Henk Langeveld:
Nick: "Violent disagreement is the last refuge of the incompetent."
Henk: "Would a Humakti agree with that?"
Nick: "No, he'd probably disagree, violently. But does that prove my case,
or what?"
__________________
for "Boris Mikey":
Orlanth still has the Death Rune. It's hanging around in his court, and he
can wield it in battle any time he wants to. See, Humakt is the Fifth
Magic Weapon of the Orlanthi. It's a Sword that fights by itself, at the
command of an Orlanth Rex.
Yelm has the Death Rune because he dies each sunset. Lunar mythographers
are working even now (outside Whitewall) to grant Orlanth a similar
attribute. We're not sure how much he'll enjoy it...
Anyoldhow, as you yourself admit, Orlanthi is only "the *second* most
likely god to have the Death Rune." As my old mate the Kurgan says, "There
can be only one!"
====
Nick
====
"There's none so blind as those who have no eyes"
From runequest Sat May 15 10:28:22 1993
From news@glorantha Fri May 14 17:18:10 1993
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From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 14 May 1993, part 3
Precedence: junk
Status: O
This is the automated Daily RuneQuest Digest.
Send submissions only to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they
will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the
~Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying.
Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you
want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at
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-Henk Langeveld
--
Send Submissions to:
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The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals
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---------------------
~From: staats@MIT.EDU (Richard C. Staats)
~Subject: RuneQuest Magic System
Message-ID: <9305131649.AA05928@MIT.EDU>
~Date: 13 May 93 17:52:17 GMT
Greetings!
I am continually impressed with the well thought out,
constructive comments that appear in the digest. I saw an item last
issue that piqued my interest.
I think Joerg brought up the topic of a unified magic system in
the last digest. The sorcery rules in RQ III could be greatly enhanced
by introducing some multi-point sorcery spells with specific effects.
For example, if a PC wants to cast a spell that protects him/her from
sword blows then it makes sense to have to consider things like the
duration of the spell and the amount of damage it will deflect, etc.
But, if the PC wants to start a campfire or set-up a magical trap near
the camp site then it seems a bit convoluted to have to think up some
long concatenation of spells and sorcery skills to accomplish it. I
applaude the effort to simplify the spell system by having basic
"effect" spells (including the "Omniflex" Illusion series), but I don't
think that it is compatible with the concept of a magic system where the
spells are learned. Learning spells implies teachers or literature
which implies that individuals or groups have spent some time learning
and practicing the magical arts. In that time, wouldn't someone have
invented a relatively common use fire starting or camp protecting spell?
If you have multi-point, specific effect spells then it has
several benefits.
1) It speeds play. Players know what a particular spell does
and can use it without having to calculate range, duration, intensity,
etc. every time.
2) It allows characters to find or learn spells that have more
powerful or specfic effects during the course of adventures. Consider
the following two cases . . . "Look Phineas! What good fortune it is
that we solved the riddle battle with the Fell Beast for this tome
contains the dread spell of Bron'nockath! We can use this to defeat the
Green Guardian!" . . . as opposed to . . . "Branham this book has some
information on intensity and range and an illusionary touch spell!
Well, that is quite a find! If I do a lot of studying, I might be able
to figure out some clever way to combine spells to start that campfire!"
3) It increases the unique aspects of PC's and NPC's. "Best
avoid old Whately! 'Toothless' Bungo didn't always have that name!"
4) It can be used to offer additional choices. If the spell
that the PC's need to defeat the Red Gorgon requires 16 magic points
then the party members may be reluctant to "waste" magic points on
simple tasks early on in an adventure.
5) It allows the GM to introduce a powerful spell into the
campaign for effect without unbalancing the game. "By the Invisible
God! The green fire completely consumed Paragsmitta! Lucky for us the
Tien designed the spell to work on that particular Wyrm! Well lads,
let's be back to town after another job 'well done!' " Once a PC learns
an "exotic" spell, e.g. command human, in RQ III, the PC always knows
it.
6) From an economic standpoint, an RQ grimoire of spells, would
most likely sell as well or better than other supplements, because it
could be compatible with other systems that have spell point based magic
systems. [Not that it would ever be designed with that in mind! ;-) ]
I've been GM'ing RQ for 13+ years in the US, Europe and the Far
East, and the observations one through five have held pretty well across
all the groups. Hope the comments prove useful.
In service,
Rich
---------------------
~From: jason@insignia.co.uk (Jason Proctor)
~Subject: Stuff
Message-ID: <7333.9305132205@piglet.insignia.co.uk>
~Date: 13 May 93 15:17:57 GMT
Subject: Time:11:00 pm
OFFICE MEMO Stuff Date:13/5/93
> Humakti running away
Weeelllll.... the CoP writeup always said that Swords were sought as defenders
of indefensible positions, etc, but this doesn't necessarily mean that they're
gagging for a sword in the gut. I think common sense would probably reign -
someone's example of 40 trolls going to trash Alone is excellent - of course
the Humakti would bottle out. He'd then zip back to Alone and lead the defence
against the ugly bastards himself. Surely a better way of using all that iron
armour / snords / stonking magic, n'est-ce pas? Dying in a field somewhere then
having Alone wiped out helps nobody. All together now - "Humaktis have INT
too!!!"
> in line for beatification
Is this some kind of divine magic open only to the cult of God? I've always
thought of divine (sorry, Rune) magic as a kind of system call to the god of
your choice, comments?
> Ducks
Absolutely effing hardcore excellent stonking characters. If you're in any
doubt - play a duck!!! The cult seems to sum up all the feelings I had playing
Aylesbury and L'Orange and the rest. To whoever it was - it doesn't matter
whether *you* regard ducks as ridiculous! - the rest of Glorantha does! If you
play a duck of course you don't think they're pathetic. If given complete
freedom of race selection I'd choose a duck every time. And Humakt is the
perfect cult. KILLL!!!!!
> Loskalm
Time out chaps. I think people have lost the thread. Can you continue this via
email? Seems to be a private session. Erm, ;-), BTW.
czeers
Jase
PS Course, when I sober up, my views may well be totally different
---------------------
~From: wroberts@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William C Robertson)
~Subject: Eurmal spell: Cattle Call
Message-ID:
~Date: 13 May 93 10:57:31 GMT
Here is a general description, the spell was used by an NPC trickster, so
I never actually had to decide upon limitations. The trickster shrine
that had the spell was located near the block.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name: Cattle Call
Type: Rune magic ceremony
misc: 1 point, range is GM's discretion
To cast the spell the trickster must roll for his ceremony, and then
for his sing skill. If the ceremony roll is made then all cattle within a
GM defined region will come (if possible), and congregate around the
trickster. The results of the sing roll may affect the effectiveness of
the cattle call at the GM's discretion.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The trickster used the spell when a the village was negociating a truce
with a Llama tribe. Needless to say they were none too pleased. Enjoy!
-Bill
---------------------
~From: JOVANOVIC@CUCCFA.CCC.COLUMBIA.EDU
~Subject: RQIV
Message-ID: <930513200952.6406@CUCCFA.CCC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
~Date: 13 May 93 16:09:52 GMT
A comment about RQIV comments:
I've mentioned this before, but it appears that I should mention
it again.
If you are interested in having your comments regarding RQIV taken
into account for the next version of the draft, posting them to the
Digest is not as useful as sending comments to me. I'm currently
collecting, summarizing and eventually passing RQIV comments on
to Avalon Hill and the other people working on RQIV. Sending comments
directly to me makes my life considerably easier than having to search
through digest after digest for specific comments.
Also, in general, I'm not too sure about what Henk thinks about having
the digest swamped with RQIV discussion, since it may not be a topic
of interest to everyone on the list. Henk? However, Loren Miller set
up a automated mailing list for RQIV playtest discussion a while ago.
It hasn't been active recently, but if there is an interest, this
might be a viable alternative.
Oliver Jovanovic
jovanovic@cuccfa.ccc.columbia.edu
---------------------
~From: jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
~Subject: exceptions proving rules?
Message-ID: <9305140025.AA06489@hp2.zycor.lgc.com>
~Date: 14 May 93 00:25:06 GMT
>> From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
>> Subject: Poets and Swords
>> Date: 13 May 93 04:31:20 GMT
>>
>> Rob Smith wrote:
>> >I know this is not a modern culture,
>> >but do we imagine Socrates, Homer, Thomas Aquinas, Shakespear and others
>> >out practicing their primary weapon skills as a "basic skill"? The martial
>>
>> OK it may be a little extreme, but actually many artists and poets were good
>> swordsmen. I don't know about Shakespeare, but the theatre was a rough place
>> ... I'm sure he would have know how to crack a few skulls. John Donne, Ben
>> Jonson (who killed at least two men in fights), Christopher Marlowe (possible
>> ...
They all bought OPTIONAL skills.
Sure there were some who couldn't hurt anyone. Sure there were some who could,
and could quite well, in fact. The point is they shouldn't all be one way or
the other. That's where OPTIONAL (note that doesn't say FORBIDDEN) skills come
in.
"many" is not the same thing as "all". One of my main objections to the RQ3
character generation system was that everyone came out the same. (A 20 yr. old
farmer == any other 20 yr. old farmer,...). There were no optional skills to
make characters individuals. That's been fixed, except for the everyone's a
swordsman _problem_.
>> These are just off the top of my head. In a dangerous world like Glorantha
>> almost everone will pick up a few combat skills.
I disagree. Why would some fat old Official in Glamour, one of the cushiest
places on glorantha, have a 60% attack? Sure he could, but why does he have to?
There aren't enough non-combat skills on the current list, to eat up the points,
nor to make non-combat players anything useful/interesting. That's something
that needs to be addressed. Come on, a skill called "Human Lore" what doesn't
that cover? And yet, we differentiate weapon skillss by fairly narrow types?
Why not resurrect an idea from Ringworld:
Root skills, with specializations after that. That was one of the single
greatest steps forward that the RQ/BRP _system_ ever took (note, I said
"forward", and I said "system" NOT "game" or background). I'd love to see
that put into RQ4. It would make this next step forward even bigger.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- - - - ---john j medway----------- - - - -
-- - - - - - - ---jmedway@zycor.lgc.com--- - - - - - - - --
--- - - - - - - ---landmark/zycor---------- - - - - - - - ---
---- - - ---512/292-2325------------ - - - ----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
~From: JOVANOVIC@CUCCFA.CCC.COLUMBIA.EDU
~Subject: Recent topics
Message-ID: <930513234612.3942@CUCCFA.CCC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
~Date: 13 May 93 19:46:12 GMT
Some comments on the last week's worth of Digests:
Humakt Vs. Yanafal Tarnils
It strikes me that Duke Tarnils, a renegade that turned
against his people and his god may well have been struck
by the curse of Humakt, which, shattering any normal
sword he tried to use, could have been the reason he
started using scimitar and sickle instead. However, I
seriously doubt that would be a limitation that would
affect a member of the current cult, be he or she resurrected or
not. After all, members of the cult worship Yanafal Tarnils,
not Humakt.
Thus, the current cult would probably use scimitar and sickle
as Duke Tarnils did, but I doubt they would be limited in their
use of straight swords - I'm sure they happily use shortswords,
knives, daggers, greatswords, rapiers, main gauches, etc. as
well. After all, the followers of a number of other gods,
including Orlanth, use straight swords and can be resurrected
without trouble from Humakt. Of course, you could always argue
that in Orlanth's case this has more to do with Humakt's reluctance
to get too close to Orlanth - who probably not only lifted the
Thunderbolt and Death from Humakt last time he got near him, but
also his purse and free will...
As for the Oath of a Yanafal Tarnils worshipper - rather than using
an elaborate oathbreaking ritual, I suspect that the other method
described - that is, ressurection even after having been struck
down by the power of the Oath would probably make more sense,
particularly given the nature of Yanafal Tarnils' victory over
Humakt and the balanced Life and Death aspects of Lunar religion.
Humakt the Foreigner
Well, of course Humct is a foreign god from the West. The reason
he is so well integrated into Orlanthi worship is that Worlanth
is also a foreign god from the West .
Those Naughty Geasa
For what it's worth, I've always felt these to be the province
of cults that were associated with Truth, particularly
those cults that emphasize honor and/or obedience.
The Fading Humakti
Actually, there's a very nice example in King of Sartar as to how
a Humakti might act in a situation that retreat was called for. It
describes a battle lost to chaos in which Humakt and his followers
fight a rear guard action to let the other escape. Humakt's orderly
retreat, which cost him parts of his being and memory, allows the
other gods time (so to speak) to escape. Fleeing in panic strikes me
as rather unHumakti, but an orderly retreat based on a reasonable
assessment of the situation seems well within the bounds of the
behavior expected from a cult member.
RQ Font
Sam,
You can get to Shannon's ftp site if you have ftp access on your
home computer. The commands you'd use would look something like this:
ftp "soda.berkeley.edu"
Then login as "anonymous", with your email address as the
password. You change directories by issuing a cd command.
Your sysop could probably help you with details.
If this doesn't work for you, I could email the font in
a binhexed or uuencoded format - in case you're not familiar
with these, they are formats that let you turn a binary file
(Mac .sit or IBM .zip in this case) into a string of ASCII
characters for transmission by email. You'd need a utility,
such as Stuffit on a Mac to turn it back into a binary file.
You'd have to let me know what sort of format you'd need.
Oliver
jovanovic@cuccfa.ccc.columbia.edu
---------------------
~From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
~Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 13 May 1993, part 3
Message-ID:
~Date: 14 May 93 05:38:26 GMT
My thanks to everyone who responded to my inquiry about Lodril! Long live
the RQ Renaissance! The "Flaming Spear"/Freudian perspective was hilarious,
but I must tone down THAT interpretation, since my players want to employ
volcano worship to bolster an embattled *matriarchal* culture. Ah, irony.
If I may further the impression that I am a witless ingenue, where is
everyone getting hold of copies of RQ IV??!?!? Since rules are being
discussed, I have a question about spirit combat: Normally, if a spirit has
10 more POW than its oppenent, the fight is more or less over. That makes
sense for most PCs in most situations. BUt in my campaign, I have had
situations where powerful spirits, such as important ancestors, battle each
other. If two magor spirits differ by the 9 or 10 points that allow one of
these to obliterate the other according to the present system (RQ III, Magic
Book, p. 8), this makes no sense at all. Proportionately, a POW 30 entity
fighting one of POW 40 is similar, say to a POW 12 cultist fighting a POW 16
hostile spirit, but the POW 30 being will certainly be defeated. Perhaps
such encounters are so rare as not to be important in establishing rules for
typical play, but it bugs me. (BTW, I know major is not spelled 'magor' --
but I refuse to erase that far back! I haven't mastered email yet.) I have
a jerry-rigged rule for this. In a spirit combat (or any other POW
resistence role) where both contenders have POW over 20, divide the POW by 5
for the purpose of resolving resistance only. This has the added benefit of
allowing Rune level characters some chance against powerful spirits. I'm
sure this could/must be refined. Thoughts?
---------------------
~From: henkl@glorantha (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
~Subject: Re: The Runequest Daily
Message-ID: <9305141044.AA08017@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
~Date: 14 May 93 14:44:17 GMT
> From: apardon@vub.ac.be (Antoon Pardon)
>
> Hi
>
> I would like to know whether you resend messages in case they didn't
> arrive. If not is there some other way lost messages can be retrieved.
>
> Would it be possible to add " of n" or "/n" to the subject. Like
> that I know not to expect more when I see "part 1/1"
>
> Thanks for your time
This is on my TODO list...
On back issues: I will upload dailies to soda.berkeley.edu on a regular
basis.
From runequest Sat May 15 10:28:22 1993
From news@glorantha Fri May 14 17:18:12 1993
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To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 14 May 1993, part 4
Precedence: junk
Status: O
This is the automated Daily RuneQuest Digest.
Send submissions only to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they
will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the
~Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying.
Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you
want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at
RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM.
-Henk Langeveld
--
Send Submissions to:
Enquiries to:
The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals
with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of
Glorantha. Maintainer: Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM
---------------------
~From: joe@tpki.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
~Subject: some comments
Message-ID:
~Date: 14 May 93 11:00:13 GMT
Burton Chodinski on RQ4
What draft do you refer to? My ersion is draft 2.0 (thanks again, Argant),
yours seems to be different. Else I haven't noticed the reusability of
1-point Runespells for high initiates...
David Empey on Geases (sic)
Well, another one for the hatchet, wasn't it? (BTW, I don't see how water
fowl get into the pronounciation, except as below :-)
Robert Smith (cited by Carl Fink)
Armour for archers
Apart from any armour being uncomfortable and heavy, I wouldn't bother about
the left (bow) arm. Even today's ahobby archers (like me) use some
protection there, if only against own clumsiness. The right (string) arm has
to move a lot, agreed. Most important is free shoulder movement, though.
Orlanthi Geasa:
Tim Leask writes:
> i) Orlanthi believe strongly in the idea of personal freedom [...] Geases
> are a direct attack in this freedom.
I disagree. A geas freely taken is a very individualistic affair - it makes
you stand out of the crowd, it makes you refuse authorities...
The historical (or mythical) Celts had the custom of taking geasa, and King
Sartar did as well: KoS mentions that he never ate fowl after the founding
of Duck Point.
Humakti take geasa all the time, and some see them as perfect examples for
behavior in Orlanthi culture (if not religion).
> ii) It would make them seem to have something in common with the
> Yelmalions.
or vice versa (the unsolved Elmal question). BTW Humakt and Babeester gore
(sic) take geasa, too.
> iii) Orlanthi aren't into rules and regulations [...]
and never to eat pork, not even when offered by a tribal king, is _not_
breaking rules?
I agree that Orlanth initiates ought to choose thei geasa. Make each a
subcult?
Breaking a geas:
incurs something as heavy, but not as mechanistic, as does breaking a
(Humakti Runespell) Oath, or hav its own (passion) spirit of retribution.
Vikings had the benign possession (Gods without Godar). Maybe taking a
gift/geas can be treated like voluntary covert possession?
Boris Mikey on the same line:
Just because a deity is restricted to 4 runes in GoG doesn't mean that
Orlanth does not put _some_ weight on truth, does it?
Brandon Brylawski on this:
> [...] he (Orlanth) is the god of Change [...]
Sartar is an aspect of Mobility/Change (or vice versa, and he does take a
geas (and in connection with water fowl :-)
Boris Mikey on Humakts ties to Orlanth:
The old KoS problem. Try my illuminated/GL explanation:
Orlanth had an older brother (let's call him Humakt) who wielded the first
sword, and who got it back after the slaying of Yelm (who earned his death
rune that way...).
In the west, a sword entitiy (let's call him Humct) dealt in death.
Later, Arkat Humctson entered the cult of Humakt, polluted it with western
ways, and severed Humakt from his family.
(In KoS there is a description of Humakt's duel with Wakboth, Humakt being
cut (torn?) in half.)
Nick Brooke on Paul Reilly's magic laws:
The artist mage concept is one I love, too. Suggested fiction: Jonathan
Wylie's "Dream Weaver", or Diana Paxson's Thieves World painter Lalo.
(You could make some hero skills out of this using the Ki system from Ninja,
as was suggested before.)
On the side:
If sorcery undergoes a major rewrite in RQ4, lease please put less emphasis
on single spells and mor on "lores" and "techniques" (Yes, I like the ars
magica approach to magic).
techniques as in "form/set", "animate", "projection", "create" (maybe
blasphemous against the compromise, but look at phantom and illusion);
add in manipulation skills
intensity
range
duration (short term, make long term duration (or range) ritual magic, don't
implement POW sacrifice for temporal effects unless it is regained
reasonably fast)
multispell (the German translation has this skill save magic points, you
only pay for the strongest spell plus one point per extra spell. IMO too
powerful, but applying some restrictions at least worth discussion)
and communal magic (as ritual magic, imagine a magus summoning his students,
apprentices and former apprentices to perform some real powerful magic, also
remember battle spells form Dragon Pass)
maybe invent some more manipulation skills;
use the "lore" scores either as modifiers (how good is the magician tuned to
the , , he's applying the magic to) or have the
sorcerer make extra lore tests. Ifa necsary, identify the runes with some
of the lores. Maybe have sorcerers learn techniques for free INT and let
them tune to a lore by means of a tuning enchantment. (Somebody want to
write a new set of runic sorcery rules?)
Nick Brooke again
> "Loskalm, Loskalm ueber alles"
I thought it was "Star spangled banner"?!?
Henk Langefeld on magic systems
IMHO RQ having three (plus GoG) separate magic systems is one of its
strengths as (generic) system. In my campaign I've added even more...
--
Joerg Baumgartner joe@tpki.toppoint.de
Free INT - Das RuneQuest-Magazin
---------------------
~From: awr0@aberystwyth.ac.uk
~Subject: A number of things.
Message-ID: <9305141202.AA05879@deca.aber.ac.uk>
~Date: 14 May 93 14:02:53 GMT
Sorcery:
I didn't know that the invisible god existed before the GLs, so that
places a new perspective on the sorcery background Stephen Hunt and myself
are writing up. I will send the system to the digest once it has been
re-edited as it was knocked out over 2 days, with new ideas just being added
as they came up.
Although this has probably been mentioned before, the system is based
on sacrificing power to particular runes to gain levels of ability in those
runes. As a *manipulation* orientated magic, it seems to click. One thing
that has been pointed out is this :
FIRE MOON
\ /
\ /
EARTH ---------- AIR
/ \
/ \
DARKNESS WATER
As can be seen, the system does not have FIRE opposite Darkness. The resoning
is mainly to do with the mechanics, but also due to the fact the moon is the
light within the darkeness, and although Glorantha mythology always pits
Fire against Darkness. I consider that to be the way the Gods reacted to
each other made fire and darkness more oppositional.
This may seem a strange view to take. Let me explain. Darkness was the
first element and is called the creator. From this element all the other
elements were created, except for Moon. This was ripped from the child
of Darkness, Earth. Anyway, that is our excuse for having Darkness opposite
Moon. Any comments?
Somebody asked about RQ productions :
>From kenrolston@com.aol Thu May 13 00:29:56 1993
The standard publishing answer to such requests is no thank you. Such a
request is similar to licensing the use of a trademark, and usually costs
money.
A more complicated answer is it depends. I am currently discussing with
Wizards of the Coast giving permission to print conversion notes for RQ in
their Capsystem books. I think this is a reasonable request, if narrowly
enough stated in legal terms in the permission document.
I doubt very much that TSR will give permission as you have requested it to
publish material "compatible" with AD&D or D&D. The British Complete
Dungeonmaster boxed games contained both D&D and RQ stats; I don't know if
they ever got any trouble over it. The key word "advertise" is significant; I
believe the Mayfair-TSR suit specifically mentions disputes over Mayfair's
advertising of AD&D compatibility.
The legal status of game systems and worlds is hotly contested in the courts
at present. The prospect of publishing "generic" materials in such an
atmosphere does not seem very appetizing.
-------
Hope that answers the qustion. One thing to note was that I wanted to
advertise a adventure book containing a number scenarios that a GM could
quite happily place in the players way anywhere any world. I wanted to
state in the Advertisement I was going to do that it would be Runequest
and AD&D compatible. The book itself would be reasonably amateurish
in production and costs would of been around the 3-4 pound mark.
Adam
PS : Of course you could probably get away with percentage and level game
compatible.
---------------------
~From: seh0@aberystwyth.ac.uk
~Subject: New Improved Sorcery System Washes Whiter Than White
Message-ID: <9305141253.AA10922@deca.aber.ac.uk>
~Date: 14 May 93 14:53:19 GMT
Henk, just so you know:
The system that me and Adam are working on is an open-formula one, wherein
spells can often be constructed in a number of different ways, by combining
runes in various ways.
The difference that is evinced by our system between Western sorcerors and
God Learners is that the God Learners managed to gain mastery of the Infinity
Rune. This was their great power.
The cultural background I've written up to accompany this works more or less
as follows:
There is one magical system. The magic of the Gods is merely the greatest
representation of this. "Gods" are merely individuals who have obtained
mastery of the various aspects of magic that mortals now seek to master
themselves. This is the attitude that is held by members of an organisation
known as the Brotherhood of the Wheel, the wheel being the six-spoked wheel
of the Elements, each element opposite one other, with its fellow elements
to either side. The Brotherhood of the Wheel is a secret organisation that
seeks to re-establish the ascendancy of the sorceror over the god worshipper.
They regard themselves as having existed since the beginning of the universe
in a number of forms. At one time they worshipped the "Invisible God" as a
disguise for their sorcerous operations. However, too many fools started to
believe in the true existence of this Invisible God, not noting the intentional
pun in the name, and so the ascendant sorceror movement evolved into the God
Learners. These, however, grew too openly powerful, and were struck down by
the jealous Gods who wished to defend their position. The Brotherhood is the
latest incarnation. This can exist parallel to the worship of the Invisible
God, representing a different approach to sorcery, yet which is essentially
tied to it.
The Infinity Rune is the key to all this. This is what separates "normal"
sorcery from Hero sorcery, and even God sorcery. The God Learners had access
to this, but were too open about it too early in their ascendancy, thus the
Gods were able to strike at them, eliminating them before they grew adept at
their fledgeling powers.
Western sorcery represents the most successful assimilation of sorcery into
society, however, its scope is tragically limited. This, to the Brotherhood
member, represents the way in which the Gods allow titbits of power to fall
from their great feasting table. The Invisible God worshippers are merely
feeding on morsels. The Brotherhood seek the finest meat of the table.
This is not yet fully developed, but the writeup should be available (hopefully
in TotRM) before long. Hope this clarifies the stuff the Aber Crew are working
on.
S'long for now folks.
Stephen M Hunt
Better Red Than Dead
.,