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Date: Thu, 20 May 93 17:15:41 +0200
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From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 20 May 1993, part 2
Precedence: junk
Status: OR

The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.

Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
they will automatically be included in a next issue.  Try to change the
Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily...  on replying.

Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest.  If you 
want to submit articles to the Digest only,  contact the editor at
RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM.

Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:

RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)

---------------------

From: s.phillips@vme.gla.uk
Subject: INTRODUCING HARRY SIGERSON
Message-ID: <19_May_93_17:49:44_A109B5@UK.AC.GLA.VME>
Date: 19 May 93 16:49:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 821

A big hello from Sam Phillips.
An Even Bigger Hello from Harry Sigerson
  (Sam's GM and the person who gets all the printouts of this
   most splendid digest/newsletter/thingy..)
 
FROM SAM:
 
Oliver.
-------
  i) Thank-you for the info on your runefont. I can't access Internet
      from here. I would, therfore, be most grateful if you could send
     me a binhexed copy for the Mac (but only if you can be bothered and
     have large amounts of time to waste etc..)
 
 ii) Thank-you for RQIV. (I hope it was OK to get it from a 3rd party).
     As soon as the exam season is over we are going to try out a lot
     of the new ideas. It looks rather splendid though. I am a little
     concerened that some things have been complicted further rather
     than simplified and/or clarified. I would awlays seek to simplify
     as long as it doesn't detract from the feel of realism that RQ
     provides. I particularly liked the new sorcery draught. Harry
     liked the Fatigue rules, the previous experience rules. I am
     most taken with the ideas about adding flair and panache (sp)
     to combat. Having extra skills however semms to complicate the issue.
 
    i would have thought that a master swordsmaan could do all these
     things anyway. We would play it (in our own RQLite) that anyone
    could attempt to do another action (from a quick slap to a handful
     of dirt in the face to a silly hand gesture or complicated manoeuvre
     if they stated it before rolling on attack, received a special, and
     succeeded on a roll for the extra action (throw, kick, slap etc). We
     probably won't use the manoeuvre skill as we have always assumed it
     to be an integral part of the attack skill - and wouldn't manoeuvring
     be different with different weapons? Consider a Greatsword vs a Dagger!
    Still, good stuff none the less.
-- Thanks.
 
Was it Ken who brought up the idea of RQLite?
---------------------------------------------
On the subject of RQLite. I think this is the way forward. Away! with all
ye fiddley-forgetty-OhEff-I'll-just-fudge-it! rules. I bet there isn't
an individual on this mailing list who doesn't drop at least one rule.
I would be interested to see who drops what and why?
 
We drop strike ranks for one! Nasty horrible things. ptoo! We hardly use
fatigue either. yeeuch! What do YOU drop?...
 
Rob Mace, ducks.
----------------
Sorry for being so familiar. I know I barely know you. but,
I LIKE ducks. And I think you can treat them seriously while still
retaining a healthy level of amusement by them. They ARE a bit silly.
I prefer the idea of them being like Daffy Duck than the idea of them
just as Ducks that talk. Mind you, Daffy can fly. Sometimes. Ducks
were one the things that first attracted me to Glorantha. That and
all the rest. But I know what you mean. Some lesser mortals sneer at
Glorantha and its' ducks. But then who wants their sort anyway.
(okay AH needs their cash to print a DuckPack but can't we just mug
them or something).;?)
 
On the GREEN MOON debate
------------------------
Stilton?..
 
NOW OVER TO HARRY
-----------------
(My G.M. for 10 yrs - bless his little socks)
 
Hello everybody,
 
RE: D.E.B.
----------
 
>From my limited knowledge of DEB and it's earthly history (early morning
Open University Programmes on the venetian merchants, -- the advantages of
being unemployed few as they are). I get the basic principles but what I
don't understand is what it allows you to do. *Specifically* What differences
at both the microeconomic and macroeconomic levels, would not having DEB make
? In what way would the magical element of Glorantha enable an empire to be
run without DEB? after all, if your bookkeeping can't tell you where that
one million Lunars went to a well thought out Divination could do the trick!
 
I ask due to an incident in my campaign during the Garhound adventuree. A Luna
in Pavis (Sam's character) got work as a clerk for the Rugbagian family and
worked as a "bookie" agent for them in Garhound. He rigged a series of false
bets all placed on the assumption that the Lunar stooge would win the Ladies'
contest. When he did win, the character was forced to pay out (to himself via
a runner), losing the Rugbaggian family a lot of money. He was dismissed
and he and his accomplice made off post haste.
 
(The bets were recorded in place of real bets that weren't placed on the
Lunar stooge. Then if the Lunar lost anyone who came to collect a winning
would still get paid. The scam wouldn't get found out until the books
were checked. I would be off by then. If the Lunar did win no-one would
come and complain. We had to duplicate receipts. But since I was issuing
them it was not a problem. -- Sam)
 
My problem was I did not know how bookies record the bets they take or ensure
the honesty of their agents. How far could such a traitor actually go before
being detected?
My solution was simpler and I feel very Gloranthan and Lunar. I decided that
a Divination check (I mentioned earlier) at the end end of the festival would
be S.O.P for the family to weed out Dishonesty among their employees. They
didn't get where they are today (rich) by trusting people!
 
The PC's got away with the loot but their faces are on wanted posters
everywhere!
 
This leads to my second question:
 
How widespread is the use of letters of credit and how seriously are they
taken?
 
My two thieves (thieves? I'm not a thief. I'm an opportunist! --Sam) took
much of their ill gotten gains as letters of credit made out to thye bearer.
These didn't protect the characters from being robbed but it did make
it easier to run off with 4800L than it would have been if it were in Gold
& Silver.
 
Andrew Bean
-----------
I liked your thoughts on DEB as Etyries' secret weapon to compensate for
their weak magic, "knowledge is power" and all that.
 
A couple more questions:
------------------------
If the Black Horse Troop are Stygian Heretics (RQIV sorcry rules & other
places eg. Genertela box) what god(s) would they follow? I assume War
gods but didn't Arkat worship both Humakt and ZorakZoran?
 
Lunar Cults:
------------
I completely agree with the idea that *anything* on the 7 Mothers cults
and other Lunar cults would be the single most useful thing I could have
for my campaign. That lack has gotten so bad that my group haven't crossed
swords with a Lunar Soldier since they rode the Cradle to Victory (Hurrah!)
(And that was over 5yrs ago now! --Sam).
 
Anyway I'll call it a day and hope to contribute again soon
 
-- Harry Sigerson
 
Okay, that wraps it up for me too. Cheers All. Keep Questing!
 
-- Sam Phillips.
   Not Scotland but Sartar.
   (Glasgow to be exact - isn't the world small these days Phewff! if my
    granny was alive today she ...)

---------------------

From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu
Subject: Re: Letter from Dorastor
Message-ID: <9305191828.AA03543@bondi.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 19 May 93 18:28:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 822

Paul Reilly here.

  This is a Gloranthan fragment from an author who accompanied a Storm Bull
expedition into northern Dorastor.  The northern approaches are quite difficult,
as will become apparent.

  Portion of a Letter from Augustinius the Red Sage to the High Librarian
of Glamour:
[Greetings, introduction, etc. deleted]

...On our journey we observed many types of diseased and chaotic vegetation.
The Storm Bulls insisting on destroying approximately one per centum of the
plants we encountered in the first few days; as we progressed deeper into
Dorastor this ratio climbed to perhaps one in twenty.  Most of the offensive
plants seemed little different from their neighbors but some were clearly
Chaotic and a few fought back vigourously.  We lost several animals to
such Chaotic plants and many more to plants which while not Chaotic were
poisonous or motile.  These seemed to be deliberatley planted in such a
way as to impede movement into or out of Dorastor.  In addition, some twenty
of our scouts were ambushed and shot with
arrows on various occasions.  These arrows were apparently grown rather than
crafted and some deposited venom or living vegetable parasites in the
wound.  See my forthcoming 'Report on a Journey into Dorastor' for
more details.

  Based on the the records of the Carmanian expedition of 1228 S.T. I 
believe that there has been a substantial change in the vegetable life
of Dorastor since that date.  While they encountered a few Chaotic
plant forms, the sort of plant defenses we ran into were more formidable
and seemingly the result of intelligent design.

  It is my hypothesis that the hostile vegetation in Northern Dorastor has
been developed and maintained by the Aldryami exiles from Rist and their
descendants.  I will endeavor to show the plausibility of this hypothesis
in my next address to the Academy.  I believe that if true this hypothesis
bodes ill for us as the exiles of Rist are likely to be practicing a 
coherent strategy hostile to the Empire.  Perhaps most disturbing was the
fact that the caves used by the headhunters (ibid.) seemed also to
have vegetable defenses.  This may indicate a hitherto unknown level
of cooperation between Aldryami and _krjalki_.

  I request that I be allowed access to the sealed records on Rist kept
at the Imperial Library in Glamour.  I am willing to take an Oath of
confidentiality to protect any secrets in these records which affect
our security interests.  I believe that if in fact there is an active
Aldryami community in Northern Dorastor they are likely to pose a greater
threat than any other in that region, saving only Ralzakark himself.
I beg you to take rapid action in this matter.

  Yours in Service to Moonson and Truth,
	Augustinius Toadflax.



Notes:
  The expedition included Uz: ZZ allies of the Storm Bulls. Augustinius
doesn't mention this in this letter for some reason.

  This is the same Augustinius Toadflax who invented the improved Toadflax
paper-making process.  His family has been in this trade for generations
and includes both Etyries and Irripi Ontor branches.

  The expedition foundered in Dorastor and was only saved by the arrival
of the Crimson Bat.  Unknown to many Orlanthi, the Bat is sometimes used
to put down Chaotic menaces in Dorastor if they seem to be threatening
the Empire.  The Storm Bulls were not told in advance of their 'backup'
as the Bat is disturbing to them.

[ Written by me in consultation with Finula McCaul]

---------------------

From: dustin@ocf.Berkeley.EDU (Dustin Tranberg)
Subject: POW checks
Message-ID: <199305192202.AA10392@sandstorm.berkeley.edu>
Date: 19 May 93 08:02:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 823


People have been complaining that POW checks are unaesthetic as they
stand.  I agree, but I think that one possible fix is to not change
the mechanics, but rather change the campaign culture to reflect the
reality of POW gain.

A mechanic as important as the POW gain must be noticeable to characters
in the world.  They should have some idea of "strengthening the soul"
by dominating other beings (of non-Fixed INT).  If this notion is
prevalent in the campaign world, then the "greedy Storm Bull"-type
activity becomes rational and normal.

Since you can't exercise to increase POW like you can STR or CON, this
can be presented as a metaphor for POW gains.  "Just as striving with
a foe in combat makes you a stronger fighter, striving with a foe in
magical combat makes you a stronger magician."

Dustin

---------------------

From: jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 19 May 1993, part 1 (fwd)
Message-ID: <9305192210.AA29930@hp2.zycor.lgc.com>
Date: 19 May 93 22:10:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 824

>>  From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu
>>  Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 18 May 1993, part 2
>>  Date: 18 May 93 16:17:52 GMT
>>  
>>  _______________
>>  john medway:
>>  
>>  We tried the Glory system for POW gain but it was quite a job translating
>>  it from the Arthurian to the Gloranthan social context - in Pendragon,
>>  everyone is a knight and uses pretty much the same yardstick.  In Glorantha,
>>  some people want zero Glory, e.g., assasins.  One player (out of about
>>  eight) complained about the new system.

The problem is keeping it 'Glory'. What I failed to make clear was that it
was a system _like_ Glory, and Personality Traits bonuses. The 'Glory' should
be renamed something like 'Status' and _not_ in a social sense. It's the player's
importance in his/her cult and in the world that it being mesaured here.

Honour is what a knight would call it. Glory is what a Warrior might call it.
Other names fail me, but the measure is meant to reward the player with power
bonuses, not provide a yardstick for comparison across types.


>>    I tried a system which worked fairly well with this.  I gave people
>>  Runic Ties for their characters which gave them a bonus whenever they
>>  acted along with the Runic Tie.  Initiates of Storm Bull for example

This sounds pretty good, but how does a player increase a Runic tie?
GM fiat?


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--   - -   - -   - -   ---jmedway@zycor.lgc.com--- -   - -   - -   - -   --
--- -   - -   - -   - ---landmark/zycor----------   - -   - -   - -   - ---
----     -     -     ---512/292-2325------------     -     -     -     ----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


---------------------

From: mace@lum.asd.sgi.com (Rob Mace)
Subject: Re: Duck Cult - Missing segment
Message-ID: <9305192236.AA07646@lum.asd.sgi.com>
Date: 19 May 93 08:36:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 825

Brian Hebert writes:
> They sat then and watched the birth of Father and Mother Duck and
> rejoiced in their perfection.  Their questions over duck nature remained
> unanswered, their private hopes denied, but the two brothers reached a
> pact there at the birthplace of their race.  They forged a bond of
> harmony between them and took it within themselves where it worked great
> good at healing all their buried pains and fears.  They returned to the
> mortal world and founded their cult together.
> 
> ===
> 
> Someone remarked on the weakness of that last sentence as the foundation for
> a cult and I agree.  I'm not entirely clear on how apotheosis is supposed to
> work.  Can anyone illuminate me?  ;')

That someone was me, and I will try to explain what I know about apotheosis.
None of this is official.  It is based on what we have been able to glean
from the stories.  Also parts of this are from my experiences in Steve
Maurer's Hero Quest game.  Since he has not given us exact details on what
is going on parts of this are my guesses as to how he is working it.

The main thing a hero needs to gain apotheosis is a lot of followers that
believe strongly in that hero.  And that hero needs to be able give something
back to the followers so that generations to come will continue to worship
him.  This is sort of what happens in Daka Fal ancestor worship.  It is
also so related to heros drawing power from the support of their followers.
We play that heros on a quest that is important to the followers will
gain temporary will for that quest.  The prayers(temp pow) of the followers
go to influencing the success of the quest.  This ties back into a post
I made a couple of days ago about how worshipers influence the reality
of the gods they worship.

Two good examples of heros that reached apotheosis are Pavis and Sartar.
Both were founder heros.  And both became protector gods.  After their
apotheosis there followers continued to follow their teachings and lent
them their power to have their blessing and protection.  I think that
Iron Hoof in Sartar is a good example of a hero that will follow this
path and eventually reach apotheosis.

An example of the start of apotheosis from Steve's game is the Lady
Juliette.  She is a Hero of Yelm and her followers can use Sun Spear once
each day against those that Juliette has declared to be the enemy of the
Sun.  The Lunars have resettled a lot of farmers at the mouth of Snake
Pipe hollow.  They used to give the farmers protection but since a sizable
portion of their army in Sartar had recently been eaten by a dragon they
were short on troops and had abandoned these farmers to their fate.  When
our group of heros was passing through the area they asked us for our help
against the monsters that were attacking them.  We were in a hurry so could
not stay but Lady Juliette made them her followers and declared the chaos
in Snake Pipe Hollow to be the enemy of the Sun.  The next day as we
traveled away we saw fire raining down from the sky.  Later Steve mentioned
as an aside that these farmers had started to send prayers to Juliette.  We
are not sure what all the ramifications of this will be.  I have a couple
of other examples but don't have the time to post them now.

In the case of Dha-Naald and Dha-Fhee there should be cult history of
the time of their return from their quest.  It should talk about how
they brought harmony to the Ducks possibly allowing the ducks to drive
away some sort of oppressor.

> I have a Balazar based scenario I could post, but I haven't seen many
> scenarios and I don't want to take up space with inappropriate stuff.
> Any interest?

I don't know about others but I would like to see it.  I don't think that
scenarios are inappropriate.  My guess as to why we haven't seen many is
that most people don't have their scenarios in a postable machine format.

Rob Mace