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Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 17:15:23 +0200
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From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 07 Jun 1993, part 1
Precedence: junk
Status: O

The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.

Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
they will automatically be included in a next issue.  Try to change the
Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily...  on replying.

Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest.  If you 
want to submit articles to the Digest only,  contact the editor at
RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM.

Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:

RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)

---------------------

From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 05 Jun 1993, part 1
Message-ID: 
Date: 5 Jun 93 17:31:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 972

Greg Fried here.

Rob Mace:
Thanks once again for words of wisdom!  I suppose we could continue on this
topic of combat tactics, but I won't beat a dead (or at least dying) horse.
----------
Loren Miller:
Help!  I get the RQ4 dicussion, but when I used the 'RE' command, my response
was returned to me!  Wazzup?
----------
Nick:
I like the idea of using the runes themselves as an interpretative medium for
players to define the character's personalities!  Anything we can do to get
people thinking about the runes themselves is good.  Again, my feeling on
these group or individual personality profiles should be used as guides for
the GM (and for players in the case of their own personalities).  [Ugh! 
Sorry about the last sentence!]  And while I do agree that the runes are the
basic metaphysical building blocks of the Gloranthan cosmos, I still thinks
that means the meanings of the runes should be matter of dispute AS an aspect
of the game!  Having characters think about their own personalities in terms
of the runes would add to this!  After all, the gods fight over the meaning
of the runes, don't they, and they must know them better than most mortals! 
Making your interpretation of a rune stick (as a god or a heroquester) SHOULD
make a difference to the reality of Glorantha.  Everyone else -- please
excuse these philosophical rantings!
----------
To all those annoyed with rules discussions:
More power to you.  But as I have intimated before, please then give feedback
on specific stuff you have seen that you do like, so people know what to
post, OR better yet, post yourself the kind of material you would like to
see!  The RQD is what we make it -- kinda like the hero plane of Glorantha,
eh!

-- GF out.

---------------------

From: drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu (David Cheng)
Subject: Sorcery Discussion
Message-ID: 
Date: 5 Jun 93 21:25:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 973


I agree with Graeme.  The sorcery discussion will eventually fade, so let's
not overreact by setting up separate lists for every big, hot topic.

Anyway, Loren's discussion server is up. 

One of these days I will post my response to the excellent Strike Rank
feedback that my original post engendered.

-David Cheng
 RQ-Con still needs more events!

---------------------

From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: RQ Character Sheets Boxes
Message-ID: <01GZ20750VUE90NCJU@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 6 Jun 93 21:50:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 974

RQ3 Character Sheets Boxes
Someone was asking where they could get the boxes those RQ3 character sheets
came in... I'm sorry, I can't remember who it was, and I have consigned that
edition of RQ News to the ether.

However, if you really want pick up copies of these, Down Here at least you can
still get them in game stores!  When "Supplements 1 & 2" first came out nearly
10 years ago, in my local games shop they had the ludicrous price of A$24.95
each (Delux RQ was then selling at A$90.00, over *double* the price of any othe
RPG system on the market at the time).  As this put them in only the reach of
eccentric millionaires, they're still sitting on the shelves a decade on, marked
down to a lower-but-still-far-more-than-I-or-anyone-else
-I-play-RQ-with-would-pay price of $19.99.  A friend of mine's mum bought them
for him for his birthday last year - the store owner must have rejoiced to have
finally moved them - but he got her to take them back the next day.  So if you
really want the character sheet pads or their boxes, drop in to Mind Games, 920
Whitehorse Rd, Box Hill 3128, Victoria, Australia, and give the owner a
surprise.

Cheers,

MOB

---------------------

From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Backwards Compatibility of Sorcery
Message-ID: <01GZ2116GTVM90N5MH@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 6 Jun 93 22:16:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 975

I thought I'd put in my 2L worth about sorcery - a subject which quite 
frankly is not close to my heart.  However, when I read that the intent of the
RQIV developers was to make it as backwardly compatible to RQ3 as possible, 
I could only ask the question, "why?"

I remember my initial reaction to the sorcery rules way back in 1984: a 
big yawn, really.  Like RQ3's divine magic rules they had no 
Gloranthan context - but at least with the divine magic, as an old 
RQ2er I had CoP and CoT to fall back on.  With no Gloranthan context, 
they had little interest, but we hoped that would be rectified with a
"Malkion-Pak", somewhere not too far down the production schedule  
(instead, we got A$24.oo pads of character sheets...).  After trying 
out the rules a few times we soon learnt that at low levels, sorcery 
users were pretty useless compared to their spirit-and-divine using 
comrades - a bit like a first level Magic User in That Other Game (tm).
However, releases like GRIFFIN ISLAND showed us that sorcerers at the 
other end of the scale were so gross that they unbalanced the game the 
other way.  After a few experimental tries, and because we knew bugger 
all about the West, we simply decided to ignore sorcery.  Many other RQ 
groups (and there were many other back then) decided to do the same.

Since then we've tried to use sorcery a couple of times, but always 
with qualifying modifications of our own.  In fact, there are very 
few RuneQuest campaigns that I know of where the RQ3 sorcery rules 
are still being used as presented: everyone seems dissatisfied with 
the official rules and are trying out their own or just ignoring 
them.

So why does RQ4 sorcery have to be backwardly compatible with RQ3?  
It can't possibly be because of all those previously published 
RQ3-Glorantha releases in which sorcery was an intrinsic element, 
because THERE AREN'T ANY.  Take a look:

MONSTER COLISEUM ain't really Glorantha for a start, and only 7 or 
8 out of the 70+ creatures given use sorcery.  Also, COLISEUM was 
the first RQ3 supplement, released way back in 1985, so most players 
are now probably quite familiar with the NPCs in the "Monster Book".

GLORANTHA: GENERTELA of course describes the various Western Countries, 
but is very sketchy on the details of the mechanics of the sorcery that 
goes on there (although I do like the emphasis on the various sects and
heresies).  You could graft any of the variant sorcery systems floating 
around onto these frameworks.

Even GODS OF GLORANTHA is pretty light on with sorcery.  If RQ4 
completely changes the nature of sorcery, does that mean we have to 
throw our copies of the Cult Book away?  Not at all.  There are 193 
divine spells described, but only 17 sorcery spells that would have 
to be rewritten, from just 3 of the 60 cults featured.  TROLL GODS is 
the same - 15 cults, of which one uses sorcery.  79 new spells, of 
which only 3 would have to be revised.

TROLL-PAK features "sorcerer" in the PC generation tables, but 
that's about it: there ain't a single troll in the whole box who 
knows a sorcery spell.  If in the RQ4 future you are unlucky roll 
"sorcerer" on the generation tables, it can't be all that hard to 
turn to the appropriate section of the new rules...

The Mostali section of ELDER SECRETS is the one substantial chapter 
that might need replacing, but even if we go to a rune-based sorcery 
system, I can't see any need to alter the various Mostali "Stabilize" 
spells much: they seem very much based on the Stability and Earth 
runes.

As for post-Rolston releases, SUN COUNTY has one minor character who 
knows sorcery, Belvani's dragonewt The Gamon.  I only put that in for 
the hell of it, just to emphasise Belvani's unorthodox way, and even 
then it was a late inclusion.  And as far as I can recall, RIVER OF 
CRADLES has no mention of sorcery at all.  [SHADOWS ON THE BORDERLANDS 
hasn't reached the antipodes yet, so I can't comment.] 

Note that I am ignoring such non-Gloranthan pieces as GRIFFIN ISLAND, 
ELDARAD and DAUGHTERS OF DARKNESS here.  In my opinion, GRIFFIN ISLAND 
served only to emphasise the grossest and most unbalancing aspects of 
sorcery.  I'm not even thinking of the ridiculously over-the-top 
stat-fest that is Halcyon Var Enkorth; even those guards at Soldier 
Fort, with their effectively permanent 17/17/17 Damage/Spell/Spirit 
Resistance, and 17 point Damage Boosting on their weapons would be a 
tough match for just about all the PCs I've ever played.  And all these 
spells were cast by just *one* pretty average sorceror (and a bloody duck 
at that!)  Makes you wonder what civilised countries like Loskalm with 
adepts on tap could do with their armies doesn't it?  ELDARAD or 
DAUGHTERS OF DARKNESS both have sorcery users in them too, as far 
as I recall, but these Gateway works are so awful as to be 
inconsequential in this debate.

So if the intention is to keep RQ4 sorcery compatible with RQ3 
sorcery because of all the sorcery-related material that's already 
come out in RQ3 supplements, this doesn't wash with me.  Now, if 
there'd been say a MALKION-PAK, or THE FRONELA CAMPAIGN out under 
RQ3, then maybe there would be a case to keep in with it.

Of all the Australian responses to the Tales of the Reaching Moon 
questionnaire, only one person said they were happy with the RQ3 
sorcery rules as they are, and that was my long-time co-writer Mad 
Trev, who just likes to be perverse for the hell of it.  With RQ4 
there is a golden opportunity to start again constructively, without 
the baggage of the past.  There are many variants flying around at 
the moment, but only one system is going to be published.  Long ago 
I suggested to the designers working on the RQ4 project that if they 
can't get a satisfactory sorcery system devised by the time RQ4 is 
ready to go to the presses then it should be left out and have a 
later supplement of its own when all the wrinkles are ironed out.  
This MALKION-PAK would then have space and time to present the RQ4 
sorcery system - whatever guise it may eventually take - in it's 
Gloranthan societal context.  

Nobody seems happy with the sorcery rules as they stand and none of 
the published releases will be invalidated by an all new sorcery system.  
For these reasons I say junk the notion of backwards compatibility and 
instead head off unshackled where no no man - or troll - has gone before, 
to RuneQuest's undiscovered country in the west!

Cheers,

MOB

---------------------

From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Lunar Moon Boats
Message-ID: <01GZ24F31M2A90NFE1@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 6 Jun 93 23:51:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 976


Moon Boats
The famous flying Moon Boats are used by the Empire to carry 
messengers, important passengers and occasionally troops over 
great distances.  They travel on and are propelled by special 
beams of moonlight, focussed from the Red Moon itself.  Inside 
the Glowline, where the moon is always full, moon boats are 
reliable and very fast: boats regularly travel from Elz Ast 
on the mouth of the Oslir to Furthest at the river's southern 
reaches in less than a week.  Outside the Glowline moon boats are 
less effective, as their motive power depends on the strength of 
the moon.  During the full moon period, a Moon Boat beyond the 
Glowline can travel at the same speed it does inside the border, 
about 120km per day.  As the moon begins its phases, this speed 
is cut in half each day, until the Black Moon when the moonbeam is 
extinguished and the boat cannot travel at all.  During this 
period the Moon Boat is forced to land and must wait until the 
Red Moon turns its face again the following night.  Moon Boats are 
particularly vulnerable when this occurs, which is why they do not 
often cross the magical border.  One notable excursion was in 1589, 
when a squadron of Moon Boats defied the Syndics Ban and brought 
Lunar missionaries to the Fronelan city of Eastpoint, where the 
populace received them with alacrity. 

Moon Boats are built using a secret process, in a special factory at 
Haranshold in the Darjin Sultanate.  They are made from a special 
wood, harvested exclusively in the Yolp Mountains and then heavily 
enchanted.  They resemble the sleek oar-driven galleys often seen 
on the Oslir and Poralistor rivers, but without the oars or a mast.  
The rear of a Moon Boat is drawn up very high, while the bows taper 
to a fine point. Moon Boats require a crew of a dozen, all members of 
the Red Goddess cult.  It takes many years of diligent application to 
learn the magical formulas and techniques required to become the Pilot 
of a Moon Boat; this person is always a powerful Monitor.
 
The Moon Boat travelling from the Lunar Empire to Pavis would pass 
through the Glowline and make for Boldhome, resting at this safe 
haven during the Black Moon phase.  The boat then leaves on its 300 
kilometer journey to Pavis the following night, as the moon passes 
from Black to Crescent-come.  It arrives in Pavis six-and-half days 
later, just before the moon turns Black again, perfectly timed by its 
Pilot so the craft would not have to spend any time down on the plains 
among the hostile nomads.

[In the forthcoming RQ release STRANGERS IN PRAX in which I have had a 
hand, some *very important Lunar dignitaries* make such a Moon Boat 
journey, much to Sor Eel's chagrin!]

Cheers

MOB

---------------------

From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: My Brain Hurts!
Message-ID: <930606102240_100270.337_BHB30-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 6 Jun 93 10:22:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 977

_______
Graeme:

> A comment about the "broken element needed for INT" controversy

Still don't see why this is a controversy.  "Everybody knows" that eating 
fish makes you more brainy (? because some fishes must have drunk from 
Daliath's Well of Wisdom ?).  "Everybody knows" that locking yourself up in 
a library and reading through a load of dusty old tomes makes you more 
brainy.  "Everybody knows" that old folks are wiser than young folks.  
"Everybody knows" that Lumavoxoran, East Isles god of Haragala, teaches the 
Rune spell "Sapience" (+1 INT per point of spell).  So, why do we think 
that INT is 'broken' and can't be increased by training, experience or 
magic, when common sense and written rules tell us otherwise?

In the "MoonQuest" (RuneQuest/Pendragon crossover) rules system I'm writing 
and testing now, I'd allow an INT increase to be taken (this is *not* 'INT 
training'): +1 to INT per two years of reasonable attempts to increase it 
in your spare time.  As you could increase any other characteristic 
(hereafter 'stat' to save space) twice as fast, this doesn't cause problems 
re: game balance.  Like any other stat, increasing it above 'species 
maximum' (for me, this is always max roll + min roll + fixed bonus; for INT 
= 2+12+6 = 20 for humans) takes twice as many years, and no free increases 
are handed out once ageing begins.

So, a Lankhor Mhy initiate who joined the cult with INT 18 at age 15 would 
have INT 20 by age 19, INT 24 by age 35, and would thereafter go into a 
slow decline through ageing.  He'd also have the same stats in everything 
else that he was generated with, while other characters aged 35 would have 
had +20 or so divided between various stats (or used to recover from major 
wound stat losses etc.), *including* their POW (no POW gain rolls in my 
system, remember!).  If that's how you want to spend your life, fair enough 
by me!

Och, I borrow another line from Pendragon and allow SIZ increases up to age 
21 as well.  Some day I'll write up all the "MoonQuest" rules I've 
experimented with and post them somewhere.  'Til then, I hope you guys 
aren't too annoyed at these piecemeal revelations...

====
Nick
====

---------------------

From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: "Aussie Style" tournaments at RQ CON (re: Dave Cheng's posting)
Message-ID: <01GZ2LPDOSWY90NGE7@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 7 Jun 93 08:08:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 978

RE: RQ Con tournaments:

Dave Cheng's RQ-Con flyer mentions "Australian style role-pay 
tournaments".  One of these I will be bringing with me is...

Ahem...
...History records that as the Lunar Army advanced into the desert 
wastes of Prax, many brave men and women willingly gave their lives 
in service to the Red Goddess.  It was the the time of the Hero 
Wars, of incredible feats of bravery performed against impossible 
odds, of raw courage and absolute sacrifice.  This is not such a 
story...

SEVEN MOTHERS DO 'AVE 'EM - Amazon Women of the Red Moon
By the Wyrms Footprint Design Team

A brief preamble:
"Welcome to the world of Glorantha: a world where the gods and 
their power are omnipresent, a world where magic is awesome and 
real, a world where men and women of courage and ingenuity can 
become as gods.

Welcome to the time of the Hero Wars: a period of the titanic 
struggle to decide the future of all intelligent life.

By the end of the Third age, the economic and magico-military 
might of the Lunar Empire had spread across vast reaches of the 
northern continent.  The conquering Lunar armies brought the 
Joyous News of the Red Goddess to every civilised country, and 
were soon followed by joyous throngs of Lunar Priestesses, tax 
collectors, bureaucrats and inquisitors.  By the year 1612, the 
Empire had spread to the very ends of the earth.

Literally...

To Prax.

Prax: A sun-blackened, waterless dustbowl of treacherous deserts, 
savage native tribes and howling chaotic monstrosities.

Prax: Three barbarians in search of a tree.

Prax: A land where women are *real* women, baboons are *real* 
baboons, and the Lunar High Command is *real* desperate.

As you might guess, this tournament ain't exactly serious, but does 
give the players (and GM) involved the opportunity to roleplay 
themselves silly.  Don't worry if you forget your dice, and a big 
table for maps and figures won't be necessary.  In fact, players 
must have every opportunity to run amok, hang from the chandeliers 
and so on (sorry about that Dave).  Simple props such as rubber 
chickens, bananas and horseflesh from your local McDonalds adds 
considerably to the atmosphere.
and realism of this sensitive and 
dramatic epic.

This tournament was a big hit at Arcanacon VIII and Macquariecon '90, 
two of 
the
biggest gaming conventions held Down Under, and I'm sure it'll 
be a lot of fun at RQ-Con too!  Closer to the time, I will be looking 
for adventurous GMs to help me stage the event, which will be for 
groups of 5 and a sessions of about two hours.  I also hope to bring 
another Aussie tournament that is in a more serious vein, but haven't 
decided which one yet (maybe something from the legendary Kree Mountain?)

Cheers,

MOB

---------------------

From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Back Cover of RQ3 Delux Box
Message-ID: <01GZ2LTNT4I090NGE7@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 7 Jun 93 08:12:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 979

Is it just me, or is the second guy on horseback from the left got a rifle
slung over his shoulder on the back cover of RQ Delux?  Something like a
wristwatch in Ben Hur?

Just idle and curious (and trying to avoid finishing/starting an essay)
MOB

---------------------

From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder)
Subject: SUB SKILLS, KITES, FOCUSSING, RUNIC SORCERY
Message-ID: 
Date: 6 Jun 93 14:16:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 980


Sub Skills

I will implement sub skills in my game for combat. I'll use the RQ4 combat
options as sub skills, I have a couple of weapon masters. Also have a
master Hider so I'll decide what it meand for him , now where is Nihon (I
refuse to call it Ninja)

Kites

Huge Orlanthi War Kites, with Heortland Heroes flying above the
battlefield, awaiting the point to cut loose, glide to the enemy, cast
Flight and slay those damned Lunar bat riders.

Focussing

Like the idea of focussing, ceremony would work as well tho, wouldn't it?

Runic Sorcery

I find this dull as well but I think it needs doing, just tell me when
you've decided!

RQ Adventures UK

Have posted John Castelucci re a UK point of distribution, watch this
space.


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                                        tzunder@cix.compulink.com.uk 
                                                   How Illuminating!
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