(Message rqd:7) Return-Path:Received: from Holland.Sun.COM (sunnl) by homeland.Holland.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04748; Thu, 8 Jul 93 17:16:28 +0200 Received: from glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM by Holland.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1e) id AA22305; Thu, 8 Jul 93 17:16:04 +0200 Received: by glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16365; Thu, 8 Jul 93 17:15:17 +0200 Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 17:15:17 +0200 Message-Id: <9307081515.AA16365@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM> From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 08 Jul 1993, part 1 Precedence: junk Status: O The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying. Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM. Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld) --------------------- From: A.J.C.Blyth@newcastle.ac.uk Subject: Publications Message-ID: Date: 7 Jul 93 15:31:13 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1235 ******************** This is a request for imformation ******************** Has any one tried to publish any RuneQuest material outside of Avalon Hill. The reason that I ask is that myself and a few friends have written some RQ stuff and where wondering where we could get it published. Now a few years ago I have memories of Avalon Hill saying that only they could publish RQ material. So what is the current state of things in the world....................??? Andrew --------------------- From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 07 Jul 1993, part 1 Message-ID: <9307071604.AA00379@bondi.phyast.pitt.edu> Date: 7 Jul 93 16:04:15 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1236 Paul R. responding to Joerg: >(This was triggered by a remark from Paul Reilly who compared Clinton's >speech at some Vietnam-memorial to Daka Fal worship) I don't think that was me, inspired though it was. I agree, though, that a lot of the cults have a strong element of ancestor worship. Yelm is an even more obvious example, his priesthood is restricted by bloodline to the old Yelm noble families, which are supposedly descended from Yelm! Obviously ancestor worship gone way overboard. We use some stuff adapted from Vikings as well. However, for Ygg's Islanders we use it pretty straight. >Arim the Pauper wooed >Sorana Tor, the Earth Priestess of Wintertop Sources? Is this all in KoS? Gotta go, paul --------------------- From: mace@lum.asd.sgi.com (Rob Mace) Subject: Short Swords Message-ID: <9307071856.AA03726@lum.asd.sgi.com> Date: 7 Jul 93 04:56:10 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1237 Greg Fried writes: > Rob Mace: > A while back you (I think) were discussing how easy it is to pin a small > shield with a larger one and then to reach around and stab at the pinned > smallshield user. Am I right that this is why the ancient armies of Greeks > and ROmans were equiped with short swords -- so as to be able to easily come > to close quarters with the enemy while stilll in close formation? My understanding is that it had more to do with metallurgy. They did not have the technology to make longer swords that would hold up in combat. They could however make a short heavy thrusting sword. Because of this tactics developed around its use. Because these tactics existed and were proven they continued past the bronze age into times when longer swords could be made. > Longer swords would require more room to swing and would sow disorder in a > phalanx. This is true. But I think it was more the weapon leading to the tactic then the tactic leading to the weapon. > So I > imagine Lunar formations equiped with spear, shield and shortsword, while the > Orlanthi warriors, used to individualistic fighting (like the Gauls and > ZCelts) wield broadswords and axes. Does this sound right to your SCA > experience? Formation tactics can be used with almost any weapon. The type of formation will dictate what weapon is going to be more effective. A bigger factor in determining weapon effectiveness is armor. When chain became prevalent impact weapons such as maces were used more because they were much more effective against chain. The development of different formation tactics and the development of counter measures to them was a continuingly evolving technology they evolved along with weapons and armor. One of the things that make it hard to translate earth weapons history and experience to Glorantha is the fact of specific weapons being associated with groups rather then how they developed over time on earth. > What kind of advantages would you give to a short-sword user > under what circumstances? After all -- why use the weapon under the current > rules, since it does less damage than a broadsword and has no benefits (that > Ican remember)? They do get the advantage of the better impale rules verses the slash rules. As to why I use one in the SCA it has more to do with personal style. In the SCA damage is rated as all or nothing. Either you have incapacitated the location you hit or you have done nothing to it. And blows are calibrated as if every one was wearing chain. So I can deliver a killing blow with a short sword. If I had to deliver a blow that would penetrate heavy plate I would use a heavier weapon. I use the short sword because I am good at and enjoy range game tactics. Basically this is moving to and maintaining a range that is uncomfortable for and disadvantageous to your opponent. This is the same reason that I like to use a 7 foot striking spear(short sword on a stick) with either my short sword or light mace as a backup. This combo is good for fighting both inside and outside the range of a sword and shield fighter and it makes it very difficult for them to maintain the range they want. Different styles work for different people. Rob Mace --------------------- From: drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu (David Cheng) Subject: Thoughts on Magic (Crosslisted) Message-ID: Date: 7 Jul 93 19:04:56 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1238 I have read (skimmed) the sorcery discussion for weeks. I can hold my opinions to myself no longer... Tidbits about Magic I have picked up over the years: DRAGON EMPEROR WORSHIP The Dragon Emperor (currently Godyuna) is a focus of worship for the whole populace. The Exarchs are his high priests (DC's terminology). The people worship Godyuna, and he becomes more magically powerful. There are inefficiencies, however, so in RQ terms, perhaps he only gets 1 POW per 100 worshippers, or per 1000; whatever. Still, he gets a buttload of power, leading to the quote (paraphrase) that he is the most magically powerful human in Glorantha. Now, Godyuna has all this magical energy to play with. As a good ruler must, he delegates a good bit of his "magical responsibility" to the Exarchs. He shares some of the magical power he's accumulated. By using the magic Godyuna shares with them, they keep the magical irrigation systems working, the magical bridges suspended, etc. (Aside: I think that in Dragon Pass terms, each Exarch ought to have a 10-20 Magic Factor; quite a bit in a game where 6 is very tough, and the Red Emperor has 12, if my memory serves me correctly.) Kralorelan magic always struck me as awkward. Not the Emperor worship thing: the magic where everyone can spend POW for sorcerous effects. I would strongly be in favor of coming up with something different, which better captured the "magic of the East." RUNE MAGIC A worshipper invokes rune magic. For that instant, he _becomes_ the god. That is what allows him to do it in the first place. Without the initiate-link to his god, he can't hope to pull this off. JRUSTELI MAGICAL PHILOSOPHY By my understanding, Curtis Shenton and Loren Miller are both correct. There are not only three magic systems, there are more. But, there is only one magical meta-system. Loren's comment today is not God Learner, it's anti-God Learner. It is the GLs who originally classified all the things they found into neat, tidy categories. Mostali sorcery is not the same as Kralorelan magic, but because they operate on principals more in common with each other than with Spirit or Divine Magic, they are classified together. >From what OJ has told me: There is one meta-magic. The individual practitioner learns to manipulate it in a certain way. However, in doing so, he loses the magical sensitivity to do magic in other ways. That is why Sorcerers can't be good Shamen. I guess this also means that there are as many magic systems are there are individual practitioners... * BUT * I for one do not want to see a meta-magic system. I am a God Learner Sympathizer, and I am perfectly comfortable having Spirit Magic, Divine Magic and Sorcery. I like calling them separate things and identifying their differences concretely. The idea of one magic system instead of three is so heretical that I think the game it appeared in might not be RQ any more. Couple this with changing the skill resolution and weapon damage systems too much, and you've got a completely different game. This might not be such a bad idea. I might play such a game, but I might not. I don't know right now. But, I would buy it if it were a Gloranthan game. -David Cheng (The RQ-Con Pre-Reg book is coming along nicely...) p.s. I apologize for the choppiness of the post. It was written in bits and pieces, and it shows. --------------------- From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke) Subject: Inept Quotations Message-ID: <930707211712_100270.337_BHB48-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 7 Jul 93 21:17:12 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1239 "Obvious" Nick Brooke says: Hi again! Sorry my waffling took up so much of the last Digest: if you'd like, Henk, I'd be happy to redraft anything of mine you want to use for the next one... y'know, include quick cuts of what I'm replying to and the like. Just let me know in good time. ________________ Greg Fried said: > I still want Gloranthan poker, though! That may be too much to ask. Would a Gloranthan five-handed scissors-paper-stone variant, based on the Elemental Pentagram I mailed in some months ago, satisfy your craving? ___________ Joerg said: Lots of really useful, true and insightful things about Orlanthi Kingship. Thanks a lot for tying this all together. I loved reading that piece of your mind, and am certain that you are mostly correct in what you surmise. Except for the rude bit about Temertain, of course, and some of the detail in what follows: > Earth cults' sacrificial kingship: this is still practised in the > Earth-dominated regions of Esrolia, Exile Tarsh (at Wintertop) and > Grazeland (the latter apparantely including Imther and Holay, if > we can trust Greg Stafford's scholarly conclusion that Inkarne was > Feathered Horse Queen and queen of the latter countries). The Pharaoh abolished the old Year Sons' sacrificial kingship, taking the burden onto himself, when he founded the Holy Country. But the idea is still current, and may well come back now he's gone. (Unless they can find another male ruler who can die and return as the same person -- anyone else want to join the Red Earth faction?). Old Tarsh is a *fascinating* case, and I occasionally distract myself by wondering about their religion. Has anyone worked on their "sacrificial Orlanth" cult? Presumably Ernalda / Maran Gor talks Orlanth into going on the LBQ, in their version of the myth... You have misinterpreted Inkarne / FHQ's domains, conflating her post-Argrath expanded role as Queen of Dragon Pass with her pre-Argrath position as "dormant / potential sovereignty". The Grazelands don't stretch to Holay, and Argrath's child-bride from Holay was a different person from Inkarne. > Synopsis: There is no mundane kingship in Orlanthi culture There should be no "mundane kingship" in *any* culture in Glorantha. In a magical world, Authority and Power are naturally interlinked. That's why there aren't any truly "mundane kingships" on Earth, either. "There's a divinity doth hedge a King", and all that jazz. __________________________ John J. Medway interpreted: (from Greg's latest Lunar stuff) > The Red Emperor has two shadows, first Sheng Seleris, "now" Argrath. Hmmm... As I recall, the Red Emperor was eventually defeated by Sheng Seleris. Surely that means that *he* was *Sheng's* "shadow"? Then again: "Everything under the Sun is in tune but the Sun is eclipsed by the Moon..." That's almost as Gloranthan as "Brothers in Arms", which must surely be the words of Argrath to Sheng Seleris when they bargained in the Underworld: "Now the Sun's gone to Hell And the Moon's riding high Let me bid you farewell Every man has to die..." and so on and so forth. Greg likes my Seven Mothers / Lightbringers?? He reacted *very* strangely when I first mentioned them on the platform at Convulsion. I had resigned myself to worming them in around the edges of my other Lunar theories. Thanks for the inside info., John. ==== Nick ==== ---> Read "Lavondyss" by Robert Holdstock: ---> it's good for you, and will make you ---> think. "Mythago Wood" is O.K., too. --------------------- From: STAFFORD@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU Subject: subscribe Message-ID: <01H09N6YKVDU000AEP@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU> Date: 7 Jul 93 11:33:17 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1240 subscribe John J. Stafford --------------------------------------------------------------------- John Stafford | Winona State University Academic Computing Services | All standard disclaimers apply --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- From: lorenr@well.sf.ca.us (Loren Rosen) Subject: campaign looking; salt Message-ID: <93Jul7.213325pdt.14242-1@well.sf.ca.us> Date: 7 Jul 93 14:33:19 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1241 Here's another lurker... My two cents on the salt mines: forget geology, a mythological explanation for where and why the salt is there would be much more interesting. Besides, Glorantha wasn't formed by Earth-like geological processes, so why should the salt be in the same places? My main purpose in unlurking though is to ask if anyone knows of a campaign in the Tampa Bay area. I haven't had much luck yet in persuading anyone else to give RuneQuest/Glorantha a try. --------------------- From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au Subject: Steve Gilham Message-ID: <01H0BGNBA9WY96ZEJU@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> Date: 9 Jul 93 09:49:03 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1242 Steve Gilham, I tried e-mailing you at "steveg@arc.mdcbbs.com" without success. Maybe you've changed addresses since then. Could you please get in touch, it's regarding an article for ToTRM. Cheers, MOB --------------------- From: a902430@tiuk.ti.com (Bob Luckin) Subject: Assorted feedback (much of it worthless :-)) Message-ID: <9307081450.AA03025@ibrox.tiuk.ti.com> Date: 8 Jul 93 14:50:51 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1243 To Paul R : Bob: >>I reckon Storm Bulls probably head-butt the nearest wall or post, and then >>interpret the dents they made... Paul: >They may see 'visions' by this methods as well. Stars and little circling >flocks of birds are common visions... Yes ! And if they are lucky enough to get such visions (which could only have come from Storm Bull, of course), they don't need to bother with checking out the dents; as this is clearly a more potent form of sending (maybe it happens on a special or critical success), they just have to interpret the visions correctly... "Where do we go now ?" "Hang on, I'll just try a divination" THUMP "Oooh - Storm Bull says we have to go round and round in a circle for a while." Incidentally, this head-butting technique could be known as phrenomancy - depending on whether they decide to interpret the dents in the wall or in their skulls ! Paul: > Do you mean Dormal the Mariner? Donander is god of music and dance. I Oops - you spotted my deliberate error (NOT). Yes, I meant Dormal the Sailor. This must be the onset of senility; I'm sure that's not the first time I've said Donandar to someone when I meant Dormal. You're probably right about the groupthink. To Joerg: The Orlanthi kingship idea is enticing. The question is, to what degree is it codified into the culture (via Orlanth Rex), and to what extent does it just work out that way because it feels instinctively right to them ? To Nick: Ah, the classic "No no, the *real* vampire lives in that castle" diversionary tactic; let's point the peasant mob at Jovanovic and hope they fall for it. Perhaps you should have tried the old "It's a fair cop guv, but it ain't my fault - it's society what done it" line instead... Anyway, Carl has done his best to lure the peasants from both you and Oliver. To John Medway: >Greg was riding on the back of his shopping cart, apparently showing his >10-year old how to act like an 8-year old, and instead found out that $80 >of groceries isn't as heavy a counterbalance as it used to be. Well, that's inflation for you. But are we talking economics, or waistlines ? Thanks for the extra gen on the con. Cheers, Bob -- Bob Luckin voly@tiuk.ti.com "A man, a plan, a canal, Puzzle !"