From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 08 Sep 1993, part 1
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Precedence: junk
The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.
Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the
Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying.
Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you
want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at
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Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:
RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)
---------------------
From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: Nick returns!
Message-ID:
Date: 6 Sep 93 18:46:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1551
Greg Fried here.
Nick:
Thank you for answering all my Gloranthan lore questions so splendidly! Now,
how many clacks do I owe you?
It makes a great deal of sense to me that Ikadz be a god who appeals to
chaotics, but not a Chaos god himself. If I can get my write-up on him up to
speed (dentistry included!?),
---------------------
From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: Argh!!(...rath?)
Message-ID:
Date: 6 Sep 93 19:36:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1552
Argh!
I hate cutting myself off!
As I was saying, I will post my attempt at a write-up of Ikadz if I ever get
it off the ground.
And thanks for pointing out that passage on Arkat's Illumination on p. 89 of
CoT, Nick. HOwever, I still find the nature of Arkati Illuminates rather
confusing.... Do they want to annihilate ALL other Illuminates EXCEPT those
who are fellow Arkati? Or only those who treat with Chaos? In the former
case, Arkati Illuminates must not only have the traditional Illuminate's
ability to sense other Illuminates, they must have a way to detect those who
are true Arkati! Otherwise, foe Illuminates would find their safest hiding
place among the fold of the Arkati! And this might well be your Kjalk/Arkat
connection, Nick! (CoT, p. 18: "[M]any westerners returned home with sad and
fearful stories of their leader becoming a bloodthirsty krjalki like the foes
he had once fought to eradicate." Hm. Although 'krjalki' here could just be
an epithet for inhuman barbarian.)
As to your thought that Arkat became Gbaji, and hence a broo (and hence
Ralzakark), see again CoT, p. 18: "After the battle Arkat was no longer a
troll, or so said his friends, and so did many trolls." BUt if he became
Ralzakark, who's the guy who settled down in Ralios? But if he IS Ralzakark,
and IF Illuminated Arkati have a means to distinguish themselves from other
Illuminates, then Ralzarkark should be detectable by these means! This would
be my Q for Stafford at the Q/A session at RQ Con!
And there are more mysteries about Arkat. CoT, p. 89: "Arkat was Illuminated
while still a youth under the tutelage of the Elves of Brithos." Was that BY
the Elves themselves, or by some other agency? Were the Sun-loving Elves of
Brithos already initiated into the mysteries of Nysalor then? And who was
his mother, "Driven from home by outraged parents" (CoT, 17)? Just what was
her outrageous act? Inquiring minds want to know!
I agree: an Arkat "Blessing" to detect naughy Gbajists is just too
mechanical, BTW.
And David: what IS the deal with the Unbreakable Sword? Tell tell!
And your thoughts on the White/Blue/Red Moon were very helpful, Nick. Though
as you yourself admit, there are many holes in the story yet to be filled.
Before I learned much about the Lunar religions, I made the BLue Moon in my
campaign the goddess of the Dreamtime -- a sort of God-time double for
Arachne Solara, the goddess of the Nowtime. In my interpretation, her Light
was even acceptable to Darkness beings, for it was not the searing Light of
the Sun (who I say appeared AFTER her - the Golden [no, make that Leaden] Age
for Trolls in my campaign was when Blue Moon and Zorak Zoran as Darksun ruled
together BEFORE the Solar Age). Again, in my pre-informed interpretation,
the BLue Moon was forced into cosmic exile with the inception of the Cosmic
Compromise -- her blue light was dispersed across Sky as the sign of her
capitulation to the Nowtime at the Dawning of the Sun. But now, all those
who seek to enter the plane of myth on a heroquest must acknowledge her, and
her present cultist are possessed of the power of prophesy (I know I know!
No prophesy in Glorantha!). If there is any interest, I could post my
(heretical, non-standard) Blue Moon cult write up in the Daily.
And Nick, what the hell is a "long squawk" that it would keep you off the
Daily?
GF out. Finally.
---------------------
From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham , via RadioMail)
Subject: Re: Hon-eel and Sartar
Message-ID: <199309070555.AA24495@radiomail.net>
Date: 7 Sep 93 05:55:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1553
>From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
>BTW, anyone else wonder if Sartar Peacemaker met Hon-eel the Artess at any
>point? Could be fun for a PenDragon Pass group to sit in on such a historic
>encounter: they were both active in the Pass at around the same time. And
>the repercussions of their disagreement can be seen all around us today...
The original PenDragon Pass campaign started in 1330 with Arim, and I'd
scheduled it to end in 1470, since so much changed then (FHQ won her
doom-ridden duel, Sartar founded a kingdom).
Given that Sartar changed others he met (were the Grazers really changed by
the FHQ, or by Sartar's influence? Did he set her up ascent to power in the
first place, since he'd no doubt be on the side of the vendref, and would
find it easier to ally with the Grazers with a new power structure? Also,
her coming to power made her marriageable, if you combine the fact that she
crushed Esnandrol [113], and was married to somone of the same name [227]),
I'd have to say he didn't meet Hon Eel (or Hon-eel, to use the spelling I
prefer to Greg's newer stuff).
Speaking of spelling, Babeester Gor seems to alternate between that and
Barbeester Gor in Greg's writing...
And in King of Sartar, is the Grazer deity Yanas-kargzant (as in the index)
or Yu-kargzant (as in the text)? (How he's different from Yelm is another
question -- I heard reference to the fact that he's a "false"(?) fragment
of Yelm, but haven't seen this in print.)
Also, while we're on names, it's too bad that "Bearer of the Head" isn't
mentioned in King of Sartar. I have reason to believe this is a mistake,
but it would have made it easier to date things if FHQ's didn't have
multiple titles.
---------------------
From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
Subject: God Learners
Message-ID: <9309070624.AA03306@cs.uwa.edu.au>
Date: 7 Sep 93 06:28:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1554
> How do I design a GodLearner cult site? While I can copout and create a
> humongous Star Trek site, where the Thing lives, I would like to see
> something that intelligence, role playing and ingenuity help in. Unlike
> D&D, I don't see many horrible dungeons, wiht a zilion traps, deadfalls,
> kill the pcs stuff. This might be such a place, but I have to place it in
> context.
Well, God Learner sites are often full of zillions of traps, deadfalls,
poisons, enchanted guardians, and other nasties, but it is important to note
that the God Learners are unlikely to have put them there themselves, many God
Learner sites (the classic example being the Machine Ruins) are trapped in
many hideous ways by the forces (quite possibly an alliance of Elder Races)
that destroyed that site. Many God Learner sites were captured in battle,
razed, and not infrequently the few remaining bits that still stood were trapped
(frequently by Mostali).
The actual God Learners themselves? Well, it is important to remember `
that they were not monsters like chaos creatures or whatever, they are very
clever magicians with rather an excess of hubris who KNEW TOO MUCH. I think of
them as being religion/mythology engineers. The results of God Learner evil,
to our very much more mechanistic, non-religious culture, probably are not that
evil on the surface. Strange magics (like the machine god), impossible spirits
and HeroQuest artificacts (perhaps connected to parts of the mythology that
we think never happened or are evil rather than worthy of worship - ie the
Yelmalio/Elmal cult artifact representing his victory over Zorak Zoran and the
darkness powers he stole, Arroins sword magics, things like the stone trees
from Plunder). Generally do some very strange things with Gloranathan myth, and
feel no compulsion about it not making sense in your characters mythology (or
even internal consistency). And always let them feel that if they know too much,
the Dwarven Death commandos, or the elven assassins, or whatever, will hunt
them down. Make them not want to investigate (or at least not let anybody know). Thats just how I'd do it. I am meaning to introduce God Learner stuff
into my campaign soon.
Re: the Blue Moon
> Related questions, from someone too lazy to look the answers up:
>
> On what days is the moon what phase?
There is a very neat chart in Dorastor, in the Telmori write up. I don't want
to look it up either.
>
> How visible is the blue moon as it climbs into the sky?
You have to look hard. It is probably more visible nearer Magastas Pool. It may
be invisible sometimes. The main evidence of its rising and falling is the tides
rather than visual.
Dave Cake
---------------------
From: henkl@glorantha (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Article too large: rq-id: 1550
Message-ID: <9309070800.AA03105@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 7 Sep 93 12:00:58 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1555
I've uploaded this to soda as "x-rq-id.1550".
> From: From: JLROGERS@utkvx.utk.edu (Jim Rogers)
> Subject: Subject: Another Cult
>
> Daily Gang,
>
> Following is a copy of a cult created by our old GM, Charlie
> Domino. He was wary of having it posted to the Daily, but two of us
> convinced him. He did want it known that the cult writeup was done about
> the time of the release of RQIII, and is predominantly in the RQII spirit.
> I agree. Gyzar makes more sense in RQIII with sorcery, possibly as an
> Eastern cult along the lines of Godunya. Still, it is a good balance to
> the Orlanth, Urox (Storm Bull to RQIIers), Humakt triad that Charlie was
> getting a little sick of dealing with.
>
> Feel free to use and comment, saving only the copywrite.
>
> Jim Rogers
> ___________
>
> THE CULT OF GYZAR
>
> Copywrite: Charlie Domino, 1993
>
> GYZAR
> Master of the Fist, Destroyer of Weapons
>
...
---------------------
From: 100024.2243@CompuServe.COM (Steve Thomas)
Subject: Various bits and pieces
Message-ID: <930907094028_100024.2243_BHJ33-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 7 Sep 93 09:40:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1556
Hi all, Steve Thomas here
First off, since I am not known as the world's most prompt respondee, this
message is going to refer to stuff from a little way back in the digest.
Henk (and a few other people) asked about my poor ailing machine (the one
used for Tales).
===========================================================================
Well, it's all back on line with a nice new (well, sad old) disk in it, and
is currently helping out with the Tales #11 effort and gazing longingly at
---------------------
From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham Entropy requires no maintenance)
Subject: Red Moon
Message-ID: <01H2NI2XZV5E000H2Q@UG.EDS.COM>
Date: 6 Sep 93 20:34:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1557
David Dunham asks (in X-RQ-ID: 1537) asks
>Is there a better (or more recent) description of the Glowline
>than in Cults of Prax? I've heard recently that the Red Moon is
>visible in Pamaltela, which contradicts this account.
Every refernce since that has had the Red Moon visible anyweher;
but being continually full inside the glowline. I preferred the
CoP version too, myself
---------------------
From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Riddlers
Message-ID: <9309071210.AA15295@Sun.COM>
Date: 7 Sep 93 12:17:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1558
Nick
I noticed the Nysalor riddle which you tried to disguise in yesterday's
missive. Me and the Bully Boys know where you live and we'll be round to ram
your filthy, chaos, illuminated head somewhere where the light never shines.
Call me predudiced, if you like, but there is no such thing as
small CHAOS.
Selwi Jerandi (Urox Drools K.O.)
---------------------
From: kenrolston@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mad Sultan? Mad Satrap?
Message-ID: <9309070853.tn08309@aol.com>
Date: 7 Sep 93 12:53:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1559
Use of the term depends on which references you rely on -- partly
translations, partly author preference. Czar? Caesar? Different connotations,
admittedly, but appreciable only through review of the complete texts...
which you all may be sure you have no chance of getting your hands on.
Smug Scholars Responsible for Published History of Dorastor and Talastar
PS -- Rolston does not like the sound of Mad Satrap, and therefore is
irremedially convinced of its error.
---------------------
From: stormbull@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tim Westlake)
Subject: Shamans
Message-ID:
Date: 7 Sep 93 15:48:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1560
I have been looking at the rules for Shamans, both in RQII and III and
have a question, Can you have a Shaman who is also a Rune Lord and/or
Priest? The rules do not say either way.
The real problem is with Rune magic, if shamans cannot attain "Rune"
level then their access to such magic is limited. I can understand that
some cults would have a more shamnic tradition rather than a priestly
one (such as Daka Fal) and that some cults dont even have Priests
(StormBull according to RQIII). Does anyone have any suggestions?
Tim
StormBull@cix.compulink.co.uk
Westlake_Tim@Tandem.com
---------------------
From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham , via RadioMail)
Subject: Re: Sorcery Vinga
Message-ID: <199309071612.AA01697@radiomail.net>
Date: 7 Sep 93 16:12:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1561
>From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
>Subject: Sorcery, White Moon, Fools and Barrels
>O.K. most of you will have met this one before, but for those who don't see
>the problem with sorcery it occurs at low level.
I get the point, but I don't believe your sorcerer is at low level. For one
thing, he's somehow sacrificed at least 2 POW to bind the Intellect Spirit
(something that my players won't do until they have around 75% in Enchant).
Also, he had to get the Intellect Spirit (so probably has a reasonable
Summon chance). So he's into mid levels.
And if he is so personally weak, it's hard to consider him gross.
>So sorcerors really gross out the
>other members of the party, but are often really boring to play
This is the valid complaint.
>From: jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
>Is there possibly some additional connection with the earth deities? I
>bring this up because of the coincidence of red hair between Vingans
>and many Babester Gor-worshippers, and that they are both the avenging,
>rather than adventuring types.
Vinga is an avenger? Not in [KoS.212], where "Inganna dyes her hair red and
goes on Venderi adventure." And [253] says "Vinga the Adventuress." Perhaps
more tellingly, the listing of the Orlanthi Pantheon says Barbeester Gor is
the Avenging Goddess [52] and Vinga is the Goddess of Women Adventurers
[53].
Dying your hair is probably the external symbol that you're becoming an
oddball: you've given up many of your responsibilities (and no doubt rights
-- I wouldn't be surprised if a Vingan can't marry) as a woman in Orlanthi
society in exchange for freedom. Note that Aunt Inganna is probably through
raising Minaryth by the time she dyes her hair, and has reduced
responsibilities to start with.
I'm interested in learning the reference to Babeester Gor worshippers and
red hair.
---------------------
From: henkl@holland.sun.com (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: Shamans
Message-ID: <1993Sep7.162852.16839@holland.sun.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 16:28:52 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1562
stormbull@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tim Westlake) writes:
>I have been looking at the rules for Shamans, both in RQII and III and
>have a question, Can you have a Shaman who is also a Rune Lord and/or
>Priest? The rules do not say either way.
There's the option of spirit cults, where the shaman functions as
a Priest.
>The real problem is with Rune magic, if shamans cannot attain "Rune"
>level then their access to such magic is limited. I can understand that
>some cults would have a more shamnic tradition rather than a priestly
>one (such as Daka Fal) and that some cults dont even have Priests
>(StormBull according to RQIII). Does anyone have any suggestions?
>Tim
Shamans (shamen?) deliberately choose a different path. Rune magic is
not for them, as it is too wrapped up in formalised and pompous ritual.
It is also too limiting and would impose on their freedom of action.
Shamans are individuals. They are masters of the spirit world, and
won't let themselves be controlled by the gods, which are abberant
spirits anyway.
There are exceptions of course, like the spirit cults. Those people
chosing this route give up some of their freedom in turn for temporary
benefits, like a Rune spell or two.
Now that I write this, I realise that the Trickster cult is nothing
more than an aggregate spirit cult... Nick, what's your opinion?
--
Henk | Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
---------------------
From: clay@cool.vortech.com (Clay Luther)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 07 Sep 1993, part 2
Message-ID: <199309071740.AA19611@cool.vortech.com>
Date: 7 Sep 93 07:40:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1563
> ____________________________
> David Scott in X-RQ-ID: 1525
> Subject: RQLite Yawn
>
> >Fellow RQ Players
>
> >Time to launch a rescue mission for the RQ Digest!
> >A few months ago we were bored senseless by endless sorcery witterings..... Now
> >it seems to be the in-depth mechanics of RQ Lite. I think most people will say
> >yes to it but do we have to go on and on about it!!
>
> Then catch our attention! There are enough people on board who will
> follow an interesting thread.
I've been thinking about creating a mailing list dedicated *SOLELY* to
Gloranthan lore; rules questions and complaints about the magic systems
would be taboo. It would be more like a place where people would be
encouraged to spout God-Learner philosophy and to publish Gloranthan
short stories and remark endless on the connection between Nysalor/Gbaji/
Arkat/Ralzakark.
I already run several mailing lists and have good software support for such
a beast.
So, would anyone subscribe to it? :-)
--
Clay Luther clay@cool.vortech.com
Software Engineer Kodak Health Imaging Systems
Yelo's gift was a necklace of clam shells from the Quel Stream strung on gut
string with a delicate knot of reeds which performed the role of pendant.
---------------------
From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: RQlite - NOT!
Message-ID: <9309071737.AA16711@condor>
Date: 7 Sep 93 17:37:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1564
There are RQ players who like Glorantha;
and there are RQ players who couldn't give a toss about Glorantha.
There are RQ players who want a Gloranthan encyclopaedia. Good idea!
There are RQ players who want comprehensible scenarios which will attract
newbies. Damn good idea!
In my experience it is not the "complex" rules that put newbies off RQ - it's
the fact that many scenarios include oblique references to people, places &
events which have little or no bearing on the plot.
Why not separate the background from the plot?:
Produce comprehensive tomes of Gloranthan lore for campaign background;
and generic scenarios that are not set in specific locales.
*All* campaign-specific details (cults etc) should be explained *briefly* in
the scenario so that it can stand alone. But there is no need to have large
amounts of extraneous cultural detail in a scenario; keep this in the
Gloranthan Encyclopaedia(s).
What a GM needs from a scenario (IMHO):
A/ a good plot
B/ large amounts of pre-generated stats. :-)
C/ interesting NPCs (who are relevant to the plot)
D/ a good plot
The Setting should be loose enough to fit in a variety of locations. It's
usually enough to say the action takes place "in a town"; the GM can choose
to set it in Pavis if he likes.
NPC motivations should not be purely based along cult lines (you might as well
be playing with an alignment system). Not all Stormbulls are alike (er... am
I going too far here? I'm just tired of stereotypes.).
And if the GM doesn't play in Glorantha he can convert the scenario easily.
Does this seem sensible to people?
Does market research disagree?
(Does *anyone* ever return those little questionaire cards that turn up
in RQ products? They make good bookmarks:)
CW.