From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 10 Sep 1993, part 3
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Precedence: junk
The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.
Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the
Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying.
Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you
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Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:
RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)
---------------------
From: clay@cool.vortech.com (Clay Luther)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 09 Sep 1993, part 3
Message-ID: <199309091708.AA23698@cool.vortech.com>
Date: 9 Sep 93 07:08:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1612
> I wrote:
> >
> > I've been thinking about creating a mailing list dedicated *SOLELY* to
> > Gloranthan lore; rules questions and complaints about the magic systems
> > would be taboo. It would be more like a place where people would be
> > encouraged to spout God-Learner philosophy and to publish Gloranthan
> > short stories and remark endless on the connection between Nysalor/Gbaji/
> > Arkat/Ralzakark.
>
> I would subscribe if it existed, but I do not think it is a good idea.
> Some lore does not need rules with it but for other lore rules are
> needed.
>
> What would we do with cult writeups? Would we have to post cult
> background in one group and cult specific rules in another. Too me
> that sounds really dumb.
Cult "write-ups" wouldn't be posted to a Glorantha Lore and Literature list
like I was proposing whereas cult literature and lore would be. The digest is
*NOT* and never really has been a literature-based list. It is mostly a rules
discussion. Furthermore, the digest structure is hard to read and navigate.
Often what juicy tidbits of lore there are buried under pages of rules.
Personally, I prefer lists that mail seperate articles, reserving digests for
extremely high volume lists (such as this list is not). If the digest had a
indexed table of contents, it would be better (one could use the pager or
editor to skip the boring stuff and get to the juicy stuff by looking for the
index key).
> If you are not interested in the rules discussions of this digest
> then skip them.
As I have explained, this usually means missing the good parts.
Well, so far between personal and public mail on the issue, it's about 50/50.
--
Clay "it's spelled l-u-t-h-E-r" Luther
---------------------
From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Tight reined beasts with generic searchlights
Message-ID: <930909173602_100270.337_BHB86-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 9 Sep 93 17:36:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1613
_________
Tom said:
> Whilst I agree that Solar society underpins Lunar society, I would not
> presume that the awesome power of the Red Emperor and the Red Moon can't
> keep a very tight rein on the Solars!
They hardly need to. The whole of Solar society is based around keeping a
tight rein on yourself. And once Moonson is accepted as a rightful Dara
Happan Emperor, they conform instinctively. Yeah, there's a little
muttering about "the Good Old Days" from disaffected nobles being pushed
aside by uppity newcomers (think about the Senate under the Roman Empire?),
but by and large the old aristos are complacent and satisfied. After all,
the Red Emperor is one of them. (Isn't he?).
__________________
Charles mentioned:
> a constant state of warfare between the tribes
- if Praxians could only eat meat from other tribes' beasts.
That sounds about right to me (cf. NG). But I agree that most of the food,
most of the time, is probably taken from your own tribal beasts. Just the
'heroic' ideology of Prax covers up this irritating fact. After all, the
only *memorable* meals are those where something else is eaten...
__________
Greg said:
> I agree with [Colin's] criteria for readily playable scenarios, but I
> think that instead of placing them in generic towns, etc, they could be
> given a definite (or semi-definite) location in Glorantha, but with
> specific recommendation on how the location could be tranlated elsewhere.
That's more sensible. Like 'Gaumata's Vision', you mean? A solidly Sun
County scenario, but eminently relocatable. (Loved running it, BTW).
NB: nobody ever suggested that *all* RQ scenarios be generic, did they? We
were just talking about a few, as a resource for the straitened referee,
weren't we?? Or something nasty might happen...
"Generic" is rapidly turning into a swear-word in my gaming vocabulary.
____________
Newton said:
> My own uninformed opinion had been that there is no searchlight effect,
> the Moon appears the same to everyone outside the Glowline at the same
> time. I thought of the Moon as a piece of Godtime that is not bound by
> physical laws about rotation, if that makes any sense.
Mine too 'til Genertela came out. The new rotating Full Phase makes it hard
to work out how the Empire timetables itself: if the Full Moon Day is
sacred to the Red Goddess, is there a rolling worship service like a wave
swirling round the Empire once a week? Picturesque, I'll grant you that
(think of Moslem pilgrims at the Ka'aba for a miniature version). But hard
for the poor bloody GM who has to work out what day the phase changes...
Yeah, we need that map. Of course, Dorastor's Telmori sharing the Sartar
Telmori timetable is already a contradiction (unless the phase shifts are
extraordinarily weird).
I don't think the Lunars would mind having their peasants "go nuts once a
week" -- insanity is a Lunar attribute . (BTW, do you think Dara Happan
peasants "go nuts" every sunset?) I *do* think it is important for the
Phases to be distinct and visible within the Empire - or nobody would know
what they meant, any more! They are an important mystical symbol at the
heart of the Lunar Way, and the Red Emperor would *not* wish to hide them
from his people.
====
Nick
====
Fifth Dan Ferryman of the Torang Tong (?)
-- nope, that's too silly by far!
---------------------
From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Re: Short replies
Message-ID: <9309091814.AA17275@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 9 Sep 93 18:14:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1614
MOB writes:
> 4) Unicorns are all male and immortal (Ref: RQ Companion) and only
> mate with virgin female horses, thus are a really wierd species.
We run that this is a legend based on the fact that, like many species,
only the male unicorns have horns. In our campaign unicorns have a preference
for meat and the females sometimes act a bit like ogres among humans: they
sidle up to some unsuspecting horses and then take down a foal or small
mare. Oh, the 'virgin' reference comes because female unicorns are smaller
than horses, so they are thought to be fillies that have not attained their
full growth.
Note that unicorns are not often been observed mating by mortals; when
they are it is typically at a distance, leading to false impressions.
Close up the females are quite distiguishable from mares; for example they
have cloven hooves.
Many horned animals have males who fight for dominance and have evolved
mechanisms (such as the curved horns of bighorn sheep) to avoid killing
each other. When male unicorns fight, they victor spears the vanquished
but heals the wound as the horn is withdrawn. The loser is disheartened and
withdraws. A single male wins the 'rights' to many females and all other
males withdraw from his territory; this is why the unicorn is considered
a proud, solitary animal (the females are not counted.)
The losers of these dominance fights slink off; they provide the steeds
for Yelornans, etc. They bond with a single individual.
All this is just in our version of things, not official.
-----------
Lewis writes (among other things, most of which I agree with):
>5) Cuirboulli produced from Rhino Leather has 9 AP.
I have to disagree with this one. Bronze and iron will have better
armor value than an equal weight of leather. (Consider that leather
was historically MUCH cheaper than metal in the ancient world; why go
to the expense of bronze if layering leather had produced equally good
armor?)
I'd put it at around six points and make it as encumbering as scale.
Weight aside, it's difficult to move in something thick and rigid.
----------
GF writes:
> I remember some reference to the Mostali wanting
>to use the Moon in some way to fix the world machine by plugging up
>Magasta!
This idea is due to Mike Holliday. Meant to be taken with a :-)
>2. Considering that Glorantha is flat, how far can someone see
> on the ocean?
At last, a physics question! :-)= ( beard indicates Lhankor Mhy mode)
Your question can perhaps best be answered by referring to the
treatise "On the Properties of the Elements", by Clement Longhair of the
Nochet Lhankor Mhy temple:
-------------
As is well known, light. like Fire, is a manifestation of Aether and thus
properly belongs in the Sky World. The elements always seeks their own
proper level in the bubble that is Glorantha, thus light tends to curve
upward slightly as it flits along at a great pace. This is
why you see the top of a mast as a ship approaches, then the sails,
then the body. Some crude drawings may make this more clear:
YOU:
o .... ....* top of mast
-|- ..... Curved Path of Light from Top of Mast ..... |\
/ \ .............. ............. | \ <- sail
____ ................. ---
--------------------------------------------------------------------- the sea
At this stage the light from the mast barely skims the waters, making
the top visible, but the path that light from the sails would have to take
intersects the ocean's surface and is absorbed by the hungry waters.
A little thought reveals this to be the true explanation for the 'horizon'
of seafarers and for why the tops of objects are seen first as a
distant object approaches. Note also that an observer higher up may
see farther, thus we have lookouts atop the masts of ships and
observation towers (this phenomenon is seen on land as well but is
less obvious.)
As for the so-called arguments of the deranged Columbus Mercator, these
rest on the principle that light travels in straight lines. Obviously this
must be false, as we know that Light is but the subtle form of Fire, which,
seeking its proper level, tends to rise. Thus it is insupportable that
light should not curve upward in it path.
Objections of the Ignorant:
1. That Light descends from the Sun and Stars, invalidating my Claims.
I answer this as follows: beyond the Sky Dome is a Shining World. Of
the Shining World's great Light, but a small Fraction descends to us along
the paths pioneered by mighty Yelm and his lesser descendants and followers.
The Will of these divine Beings is to send light to the mortal world, hence
the light descends, against its Nature. However, it always yearns to return
unto its true Home.
2. That El-Metal (Gold) falls Down toward the Earth with great Force,
against the Tenets of my Theory.
I answer this as follows: Yelm's metal indeed falls down with great Force,
but in the oldest records this is not so. In Godtime, before the Darkness,
it was the Lightest of Metals and would even Leap and Dance about, from the
Yearning of the Fire Within to return to the Sky World. See [list of
references deleted for brevity], and lastly "The Sun Wheel
Dancers" by Hector the Wise of Sun County for a compilation of the works
of the Ancient Authors I have cited.
Only _after_ the Sunslaying (familiar to all who love the Lightbringer Saga)
did Gold become heavy and lifeless, seeking to join the Celestial
Emperor in the Underworld. Thus through the actions of Great Orlanth did
Gold become the heaviest of Metals.
---------------
Thus there is in fact a horizon on Glorantha, which gets farther away
as you go up. Mountains and such do provide good vantage points.
From other works I get the impression that (like many Gloranthan phenomena)
the horizon distance varies with height on Glorantha in much the same way
it does on Earth, despite the great differences in the underlying physics,
For a standing man, the horizon will be about five kilometers away. I'm
not sure how far one can see from a 12 kilometer height (The Vent), but I could
work out the Earth answer if you like. No guarantee that this will apply on
Glorantha, although it's certainly a great distance. According to
Pallikos, one can see clearly the smoking top of the Vent from the peak of
Stormwalk Mountain.
- Paul Reilly
PS. No 'official' sources for this material, all due to me except for the
Columbus Mercator references.
---------------------
From: jarec@cix.compulink.co.uk (Simon Basham)
Subject: How to sell RQ
Message-ID:
Date: 9 Sep 93 20:52:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1615
Hi all,
Those of you who read the RQ4 dev list may have seen these comments a week
or so back but I felt it worth sending an abreviated for to the daily.
Why doesn't RQ sell?
1) Generally poor advertising, when did anyone last see a RQ poster in a
games shop? (maybe it was underneath the Vampire or D&D poster!!!
2) Rules box has generaly poor artwork, this might have been good in 1985
but is not very interesting in 1993. Also the game blurb on the back is
fairly dull.
3) Still reasonably expensive. Admittedly plenty of other games sell at
this price but who can expect someone who goes into a store to buy a new
game to buy something in a boring box when you have things like D&D,
shadowrun etc sitting there under full cover posters.
Most people don't get the chance to study the rules for a game before they
buy, they pay for something that looks fun. If they are enthusiastic about
the game they will learn the rules later.
*** My suggestions ***
Re Launch RQ3
New box artwork (a la RoC)
Reduced price (not much, just enough to be an attractive alternative)
Get posters out
Get reviews of the rules in magazines
Send out a short, official, quality scenario for inclusion in key magazines
In general make people want to buy what we already have rather than
arguing about something that might not happen for 2 years.
(Water buckets ready, please flame after the tone.......Beep...)
Jarec@CIX.Compulink.Co.UK
---------------------
From: jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
Subject: The Wild Hunt
Message-ID: <9309092342.AA16757@hp0.zycor.lgc.com>
Date: 9 Sep 93 23:42:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1616
Sorry, Gagarth content = 0.
I was looking through an old mail file and ran across a reference to a
publication called "The Wild Hunt".
Would some kind soul fill me/us in on this?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| john_medway@zycor.lgc.com | Landmark Graphics Corp | 512.292.2325 |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From: drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu (David Cheng)
Subject: RuneQuest-Con Update
Message-ID:
Date: 10 Sep 93 03:29:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1617
A little update on how RQ-Con is doing:
REGISTRATION
Things are going pretty good so far. As of tonight, we've got 35 paid
memberships. Please note that 33 of this 35 have requested HotB! If you
are planning on playing, as I know many of you are, please get your
registration in ASAP. Spots are limited.
On a related note, we've really tried to have lots of good stuff running
opposite HotB, for those of you who don't get (or don't want) to
participate. I only hope you agree.
NEW EVENTS
Rumoured/more-than-rumoured are a Pendragon Pass game run by David Dunham;
a 4-hour 25 player Cthulhu live-action game, and a few other things that I
can't remember right now. And there are certain to be more.
THE TEKUMEL CONNECTION
seems to be working better than expected. Mark Daniels, a Tekumel
fanatic, has been working overtime to recruit EPT players to come. It
seems they are more starved than we RQ players are, and are very
impressed that we've got EPT-related events in every time slot.
It is rumoured that Dave Morris, editor of _The Eye of All-seeing
Wonder_ (a fanzine much like our beloved _Tales_), will try to make
the trip from England. Also, Professor M.A.R. Barker is warming to
the idea, and we hope he drags along Bob Alberti and Bob Dushay.
Cool, eh?
DC BACK ONLINE
If anyone tried emailing me in the past 6 days or so, and had your
message bounce, please accept my apologies. NYU killed my account,
and with the holiday weekend, only today was I able to get it back.
Please resend any bounced messages.
That's it from me for now. Please keep those registrations coming.
I'm very optimisitic now that they're coming in 3 to 5 per day.
I hope to see yours soon.
*David Cheng drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu / d.cheng@genie.geis.com
Ask me about RuneQuest-Con! (212) 472-7752 [before midnight]
---------------------
From: mace@lum.asd.sgi.com (Rob Mace)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 09 Sep 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <9309110253.AA10690@lum.asd.sgi.com>
Date: 10 Sep 93 12:53:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1618
David Scott writes:
> Rob Mace said:
> >The current HeroQuest campaign(Steve Maurer's) I play in is somewhat
>
> Wow, now thats a game I want to run...Is Steve still on Email,
Steve does not have email access at his current company.
> perhaps he would like to share some of his campaign with the digest?
I am sure he would if he had net access. Since he does not I can
occasionally pass on bits and pieces about it. I can also pass
any specific things you would like to ask him onto him.
> (Like he did his HeroQuest system - has it come any further?)
Depends on what version you have seen. He has continued to refine it.
-------------------------------------------
Carl Fink writes:
> Bwahahaha! While I hate to give you advice, let me just say this:
> It is a bad idea to mindlink with Gbaji's remnants. I know this
> from experience.
You thought it might be a "Good Idea"?
> >The current HeroQuest campaign(Steve Maurer's) I play in is somewhat
>
> I played around the edges of this when our NY game crossed over into
> Steve's West Cost one. Your Yelmalio Hero scared the Hell out of our
> group, you know.
Do you mean that little bit when he blew up himself and the Lunar Spell
Archers school by sticking his spear through the amulet that was channeling
all the power of the regimental magic the school was doing at the time.
And the wave of magic that ripped through Bicky afterwards.
Well that's nothing. You should have seen when Juliette(Ray Turney's Yelm
Heroin) made the entire city of Riverjoin her followers. You see Juliette
has the ability to grant all her followers one use of Sun Spear each day
that can be cast at who ever Juliette declares to be the enemy of the Sun.
And at the time the city was being besieged by the Eastern Army of the
Kingdom of War. We are told that the blast of 40,000 Sun Spears could be
seen as far away as Kralorela. Now that was scary.
> BTW, did you ever hear about Firesnake or the Squid?
No. Do tell.
-------------------------------------------
Greg Fried writes:
> Rob:
> VERY cool idea about the Moon-Hole left in the God-Plane by entropic Chaos
Thanks.
> What this suggests is that the Red Moon fills a _structural_ void left in the
> cosmos by the destruction of the Chaos Wars. The question remains, how WELL
> does the Red Moon fill this void? Like a hand in a glove, or, rather, to
> use a Mostali world-machine image, like a square peg in a round hole?
Interesting. Maybe this is why the coming of the White Moon is inevitable.
The White Moon is the correct shaped peg to fit the moon hole.
> And GAWD, Rob, what kind of campaign is that you play in?!
Umm... Complex? Umm... High powered? I'm not quite sure how to describe
it. Perhaps the turm you use later "high-myth" is the best. The campaign
or meta-campaign has been running and evolving for over 12 years. Our first
HeroQuest was around eight years ago.
> My players will
> be lucky to get dates with scrofulous clansfolk, much less daughters of the
> Sun, dolling it up in their star-palaces!
It was not exactly a date. Adraen was sent by Yelmalio and Dayzetar to
rescue Star. I don't think either anticipated that they would fall in
love.
> But really, I admire a GM who
> could properly handle such a high-myth campaign, and I liked the ideas
> a lot -- if for nothing else but for their audacity. The relation of
> Gbaji's claw to the trollkin curse is definitely intriguing. Any
> reason, other than random GM fiat, that it be Gbaji's claw that be the
> key to his re-memberment?
Gabaji cursed the Trolls. This became known as the Trollkin Curse. In
our campaign this was carried out by Gabaji wounding Kigor Litor in the
womb with his claw. Since Kigor Litor is outside of Time this wounding
had to be done outside of time. And since this wounding happened outside
of time a herequest can undo it. Basically to undo it the claw must be draw
back through the wound. Sort of like walking backwards over a path that
you have just taken. You end up back where you started and in this case
that is with a non-wounded Kigor Litor. So I would not call it "random GM
fiat" but "thought out GM fiat".
I will have to write an article some time on hero plane physics and how
hero plane actions relate to Time.
> I guess I am also just curious how you handle trotting about in the heavens
> and such truck. It's not as if we get "Astral Projection" in RQ.
I am working on writing Adraen's story in saga form. I am annotating it
with both scholarly and game mechanics notes. That will probably give
the best explanation that I can. I have been too busy with the rest of
my life recently but I would still like to finish it.
> Are you simply HeroQuesting ALL the time?
No. Only when we are out side of Time. Currently we are(at least the main
group) in Jonatela overthrowing a barony. Adrean is currently flying high
over eastern Ralios, on a fire winged horse, on his way there.
> I'd like to see your GM's encounter charts!
I am afraid it is all in his head.
Rob Mace