From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 14 Sep 1993, part 1 Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM Precedence: junk The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying. Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM. Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld) --------------------- From: carlf@panix.com (Carl Fink) Subject: worlds, spirits, world-spirits Message-ID: <199309110604.AA29462@panix.com> Date: 10 Sep 93 22:04:42 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1636 watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson) writes: R>This is a question that's bothered me for a while: What can a Priest do >about possession? Say, he is covertly possessed by a spirit; can the Priest >do *anything* about it? It seems (in RQIII rules) only shamans can perform >exorcisms. Does the Priest have to crawl to the nearest tame shaman? R>The same question goes for sorcerors too. I can't imagine sorcerors >consorting with shamans (or vice versa), but I guess they'd have to if they >got possessed. Well, the easy thing is to summon a healing spirit to evict the possessing spirit. staats@MIT.EDU (Richard C. Staats) writes: R>The world is lozenge shaped I thought, i.e. bulges out at the center. >That way, you have the same effect you do on a spherical world. Actually, see _World of Glorantha_. It's _concave_, leaning _down_ to Magasta's Pool. If a ship doesn't use oar or sails, it slides downward until sucked into the Pool. --------------------- From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke) Subject: Carry On, Columbus Message-ID: <930911120456_100270.337_BHB46-2@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Sep 93 12:04:56 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1637 _________________________ Columbus Mercartor raves: > In order to prove this I plan a great journey of circumnavigation > around the world. Once I find an agreeable captain, the boat shall > set sail from Nochet and travel east, only to appear at some indeter- > minate time in the west. Many sailors fear that they would sail off > the edge of the world, despite my assurances. But when the ship > undoubtedly appears again on the western horizon, its mast will be > seen first, not because light "bends" as Clement Longhair would have > it, but because the world is round, not flat! You are *mad*. Stark, staring mad. What will have happened, if your ill- conceived expedition does indeed return as you expect, is this: As your captain (hopefully accompanied by your good self) sails beyond the Eastern Empire of Vithela, he will be caught up in the great encircling current of Sramak's River and *swept* around the far North of the world (where the River flows beyond Valind's Ice Palace) to reenter it along the Banthe Current. Thus he will have sailed off the Eastern edge of the world, around it widdershins to the North, and reentered from the Western edge. If his crew have successfully fended off the offended Altinae, Hollri, and other denizens of the Northern Edge of the Outer World, that is. Alternatively, you could set your course along the Sky River, sailing up through Heaven itself to descend by the far side of the Sky Dome. Though in view of your heresies against True Light, I fear your course would be rudely interrupted by Star Captains incensed at your blasphemous rantings. Light clearly "bends", tending towards its heavenly home. Rays of Light are akin to arrows or javelins. And the path of an arrow or javelin plainly curves downwards -- down and not up because the arrow is of a gross material substance and not of celestial light. An arrow enhanced by Speedart tends more nearly to the horizontal -- that is, adopting a flat path (I make this clarification because you, Columbus, would presumably assume the horizontal path to be curved!) -- as it is charged with more Light energies. Even Dormal only sailed as far as Luathela. Your hypothetical captain would undertake a voyage many times as lengthy, and for what reward? Your own Academic renown? Your madness has taken you beyond the bounds of reason. I weep for a fellow sage sunk so low, and cannot help wonder what Sin against Knowledge brought the Brain Flayers to your cranium. Yet all the same, I wish you luck in finding a captain mad enough to take you and your fervid scribblings beyond the Eastern Edge of the World, never to return. With any luck, you could be departed before the Matriarch's Guard unman you for heresies against Our Broad-Bosomed Mother of the Four Corners. -- Carpocrates the Orthodox, Sage of Truth ___________________ Interesting Spirits I am rather taken by Greg Fried's "interesting spirits" which affect the personality of their "binders", and by David Dunham's proposals for simple Personality Trait rules to reflect this. Both seem to be Good Things, tending towards a more animist view of Spirit Magic. Both also harmonize with my opinion that the Spirit Magic casting chance should be based on a relevant Personality Trait, rather than POW. If I ever write good rules for these, I'll be sure to let you know. ____________________ David Dunham writes: >> Tosti Runefriend ("He's got a big fetish"), the well-known Viz >> character. > Well-known? (I did add all the Dragon Pass people to my Big List of > Personalities, but I don't know anything about most of 'em.) Probably nobody does unless they make it up for themselves. I asked Greg about the Dragon Pass counters a few years ago, and learned that little was known about any of them. But that capering loon Tosti has always endeared himself to me -- the most useless man in the Sartar Magical Union (I don't count jumpin' Flash Jak and his nomad Pol-joni friends). Almost as sad a case as Aristos the Philosopher ("I used to be famous, you know..."), the entirely-forgotten Independent Master of Magic. One of these years I'll write up my Brown Eagle Warlocks scenario - just as soon as I work out what's in it... ==== Nick ==== --------------------- From: pete@slough.mit.edu (Pete c/o Tom Yates) Subject: Gloranthan Basics Message-ID: <9309111556.AA27691@Sun.COM> Date: 11 Sep 93 16:00:03 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1638 * Chris Cooke wrote: > the most daunting aspect to getting started is the HUGE amount of > information available. My solution was to just keep it simple. That's a bloody good point, and one I'd forgotten. RQ is in some ways an extremely daunting system; the mass of history available is probably more than any newcomer to the system would feel comfortable with. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be more Gloranthan material produced, but perhaps while everyone is talking about RQLite it wouldn't be a bad idea to think about some Glorantha Lite, too. When I started playing Glorantha, the other players just told some of the basic information about the world: Storm Bulls as berserkers, the Waha battle cry, vegetable Elves and omnivorous Trolls...a sort of oral first-grade primer of Glorantha. If they'd dropped a mass of books in front of me I'd probably have decided that RQ and Glorantha were too much work -- and that was back when Cults of Prax and Cults of Terror were the only non-scenario supplements out. Nowadays that stack would be considerably higher! All this material and information about Glorantha is great, but I'd say more thought has to be given to introducing new players to Glorantha/RQ. One way to do that would be to issue some good but simple adventure supplements, *without* the now-standard section of history and area information. On the other hand, there may not be much point. I can't think of a single way to induce new players to try RQ; posters and publicity don't seem to work, though the Invisible God knows that Avalon Hill hasn't really done much in that area. Even TV commercials would be ineffective, I suspect -- though if anyone has solid information about that, I'd like to hear about it. No, I suspect that the only way to bring new people into RQ is to have them join already-established RQ groups. Which means that those who read this Digest, for example, would have to make a strong effort to recruit new players -- a sort of "novice rule" situation (the "novice rule" of the IFGS LRP organization requires at least one inexperienced player participate in every game -- I don't know if it's enforced). But that would be extremely difficult to do. Can anyone think of any other way to expand the base of RQ players? -->Pete ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Maranci Malden, Massachusetts pete@slough.mit.edu or rune@trystero.com or rune@ace.com "Hey! Your Tien fell in my Atyar!" "Well, your Atyar got in my Tien!" Thanatar -- two great Chaos Gods that go great together! --------------------- From: 100116.2616@CompuServe.COM (David Hall) Subject: Random Comments Message-ID: <930911193608_100116.2616_BHJ27-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 11 Sep 93 19:36:08 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1639 Howdy all! Praxian Nomads ****************** I talked to Sandy Petersen about this when I stayed with him. The impression I got was that Prax is the holy land for the nomads, most (85 - 95%) live in the Wastes. Every 14 - 21 years a clan will visit Prax in pilgimage, as a part of its nomadic wanderings. The nomads who were at the Battle of Moonbroth were from some of the clans that just happened to be in or near Prax at the time. Other clans in the Wastes might have different views on the Lunars. A common view would be not to worry since the Lunars will most likely be gone the next time they visit Prax - like most other invaders. Nomadic tribes can eat their own tribal animals. However, they much prefer to eat other tribes animals - which they steal. For a warrior to marry requires a bride-price of another tribes animal, and only those warriors who have stolen animals from each of the great tribes may join the clan Elders. As Lewis pointed out, things are slightly different with Rhinos. Sandy's plan for Praxpak involved the PC's being initiated into a clan that was on a pilgimage to Prax from the Wastes. Ralzakark *********** I reckon David Scott is right and Ralzakark is a part of Nysalor (or Gbaji). I suspect the other Ralzakark is too, and Vostasador the Replicator. Which part they are may explain their nature and motivations. Ralzarkark is no doubt collecting other parts. Maybe he'll put himself together one day - but will he have all the right parts? Arkat was Gbaji - he was the Deceiver. At least that's what the worshippers of Nysalor say! Harrek = The Wolf Bear? **************************** Hmm... strikes me as being too simplistic. Harrek is probably more likely to sack the shrine of Dorasta rather than save it! The uncharted European market I'm not sure it really exists. Even if it does, they mostly don't read English, and so either the English language sales will be small, or the foreign language rights will only make AH a pittance. AH's foreign language deals are not very lucrative. There are foreign language editions of RQ in France, Germany, Spain, Finland and Japan. However, I hear that the edition in Germany isn't selling too well. The great uncharted market is the USA. Convulsion '94 ***************** We're now 50% full, and we haven't yet done any mailshots outside of Tales. If I were you I'd book up now! The Eye of all Seeing Wonder ********************************** Contact Dave Morris at: 1 Rusham Road London SW12 8TJ Issues cost UK pounds 2.50 in the UK, 3.00 outside. Dave was only accepting subscriptions up to issue #2. Issue #1 came out in Autumn 1992, and so far there is no sign of #2. Judges Guild *************** Does anybody have a copy of the old Judges Guild Citadel of Fire book? I think it was for D&D. Cheers! --------------------- From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried) Subject: Spirits 'n' Such Message-ID:Date: 11 Sep 93 20:30:41 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1640 Greg Fried here. Anyone understand what I was on about yesterday? God, I can barely make it out myself! Spirit combat, etc: Nick agreed with my lamentations on the impoverished realm of the spirits; David thought that spirit combat is rare enough that we ought not to bother with more involved rules. A reasonable point, especially if you play in a more advanced-culture campaign. But I have shamans as PCs, and the like, and the culture isn't even bronze age -- it's paleolithic/neolithic. I would reaslly like more involved spirit-rules, at least as an optional modular addition. SO how to improve spirit combat? I have no formal ideas yet (other than those mentioned before), but I think I would start by allowing other stats, such as INT and CHA (erg! not APP!!!) figure into what makes a 'spirit'. Yes, I know, disembodied spirits don't have CHA, and some don't have INT, but to me, that would mean simply that they would have less options. So, instead of just attacking with POW vs POW, you might be able to attack an oppenent's INT, and make him forget a spell for a while, or lose his orientation (like a Befuddle); or, vs. CHA and overawe him for a while, a kind of entrancement or charm. This might lead to various kinds of spiritual 'weapons', that could be learned like material weapon skills, and would require a minimum STAT to perform, also as do weapon skills. Such rules would also help answer Colin's question about whether priests and sorcers can exorcise spirits, and the like: certainly they would learn rituals to use the appropriate spiritual weapon to accomplish the exorcism, but this would probably be the only 'shamanic' skill they would have. Just some thoughts -- I'd to see them expanded upon with a real rules system. But I guess the preference is for 'Swords and Sorcery', not 'Sticks and Shamanism', and so we put all our RQ4 effort into the sorcery system, and not into the spirit world. Ah, well. === Chris: You know I want to hear how the seduction goes. === Steve: Thanks for the points about the European RQ market. Apologies AGAIN! Still ... I continue to wonder if AH has any strategy on such things! It doesn't seem to have one! === Peter: I appreciate your concerns about the procedural squabbles that erupt here from time to time, and it is indeed distressing when people with a common interst so arcane as ours cannot manage to be civil with one another over a GAME. BUt I think the rules/lore split will occasionally, and necessairly cause some friction, if for no other reason than that new subscribers come aboard and raise an issue new to them, which old hands may have gone over once or twice or more before. So, I guess we should just grin and bear it, no? === Hans: Neither of your solutions seems quite right to me, although if I had to choose, I prefer the latter one: that the Glowline is caused by overlapping circle radiated out by each temple of the reaching moon, and whose scope depends on the temple's size. A good idea, but the maps of the empire I have seen just do not make this seem credible to me. Rather, it just looks like the GLowline reflects the Empire's stable sphere of domination; each temple to the reaching moon simply confirms the stability of that dominion when it is completed. So the Glowline reflects a simple political boundary, and the temple, the glowline, and the political reality are all tied in together and inter-dependent. GF out. --------------------- From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly) Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 11 Sep 1993, part 2 Message-ID: <9309120003.AA04232@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu> Date: 12 Sep 93 00:03:43 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1641 About Light, Nick writes: > The central idea of which (light striving upwards) ... >Of course, casting Farsee to "energise" your >vision would therefore increase line-of-sight, regardless of the "false >horizon". One of the ancient Greek theories of vision (Aristotle?) was that people shot some kind of particles out of their eyes, which hit things and reported back, rather like radar or Darksense. Farsee would then work just as Nick describes above, 'energising' the vision particles... - Paul PS: I must act as translator for another note from Clement Longhair. My esteemed (by the Lunatic fringe) colleague Columbus Mercator continues to promulagate his "Round Earth" belief. I shall respond in three parts to his arguments. 1. Our most ancient records describe Glorantha as a bubble of order, randomly formed, in a sea of chaos. It is clear that in such a bubble, the weightiest element (Primal Darkness) will descend to the bottom, the Hell of Subere. Above this is are layer of Darkness attenuated by Earth and Water (the Styx and suchlike) which make up the Underworld known to shamans, Heroes, and necromancers. The spiritual shells of the dead, weighty with sin, descend to the Underworld, ultimately to be devoured by Subere, while the true soul, freed of this weight, ascends to the Sky World. The mortal world is a flat layer at the exact middle of the bubble; this can be seen by mere inspection of the visible Sky Dome, which is form a hemisphere. The lighter elements of Air and Moon vie for the middle spaces of the Upper World, while the Flame Eternal lights the Sky World beyond the Dome. Innumerable sources attest to the truth of this picture, which is also consonant with Reason. I shall append a list of these sources below. [Translator's note: the list is too lengthy to translate.] 2. Mercator's description runs as follows: "The shape of the earth *must* be spherical.For every one of its parts has weight until it reaches the center, and thus when a smaller part is pressed upon by a larger, it cannot surge around it, but each is packed close to, and combines with, the other until the reach the center. Note the logical flaw here, apparent even to a child: my colleague presupposes the existence of a center, which draws everything to itself. He posits that things fall in the direction of this center. But we can perform a simple test: let two plumb lines, weighted with na-metal, be carried some distance apart. If there is such a center then the lines will both point in its direction, therefore converging. But wherever we carry such lines, they remain parallel, pointing straight down. Thus we conclude that things do NOT fall toward a center, but instead toward one Direction, called 'Down', designated byt the Celestial Court (in their wisdom) as that direction toward which the heavier elements should tend. In any case, the center of the world is well known to be Magasta's Pool. Does my colleague presume to tell us that things here in Genertela are falling south, while those in Pamaltela fall north? 3. Should the world be a sphere as Columbus Mercator supposes, then would not the greatest navigator of all time, Dormal the Sailor of our own beloved Kethaela, have returned to report this `fact' to us? He has not, therefore I believe that the cosmography attested to by all _reliable_ sources, which tell of Sramak's River rather than some strange bending, is correct. However, I do not oppose and in fact encourage the journey proposed by my colleague. [T. note: >In order to prove this I plan a great journey of circumnavigation around the >world. Once I find an agreeable captain, the boat shall set sail from Nochet >and travel east, only to appear at some indeterminate time in the west.] I feel that this journey would not only settle the argument but relieve the world of the weight of one who speaks without the true light of Reason to inspire his words. - Clement Longhair