From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 14 Sep 1993, part 2
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Precedence: junk
The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.
Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
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Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:
RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)
---------------------
From: 76360.1173@CompuServe.COM (Charlie Domino 76360,1173)
Subject: Praxian Ecology
Message-ID: <930912003244_76360.1173_FHA53-2@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 12 Sep 93 00:32:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1642
Carl Fink writes:
___________________________________________________
You're assuming that eating meat is necessary or positive. It isn't.
Real animal-herding nomads, from the Mongols to the Ancient Hebrews
(both my ancestors) lived mainly on milk and cheese from their animals
together with gathered plant products, and only slaughtered animals on
special occasions. Since the animals don't breed fast, it would be
impossible to live on meat from one's herds exclusively.
___________________________________________________
Yes, I am assuming that eating meat is necessary and positive,
although I am also assuming that eating meat excusively (or even as a very
large portion of one's diet) is counter-productive and unhealthy. (For one
thing, a diet exclusively of meat leads to gout.) And, yes, diets that tend
more to vegetarian encourage longer life--which WE know, the Praxians don't,
and frankly, if you told them, they wouldn't belive you. "A rider lives as
long as he lives," would be a likely reply.
All veggie fanaticism aside, meat contains certain protiens and
nutrients needed by the human body (as do vegetables & fruits). Our
technological society can produce most if not all of these in "pill" form,
making meat unnecessary, but Glorantha cannot. Our more sedentary lifestyle
and higher medical abilities can cope with nutrition deficiencies, whereas
the harsh, demanding, nomadic lifestyle of the Praxians cannot.
The problem I have with the published lore is that it keeps trying to
make the Wastes (and even Prax) out to be, well, wastes. I belive the
concept has been over-influenced by Hollywood westerns, showing Indians
living in virtual deserts, and John Wayne et.al. owning ranches/cattle
farms in areas too dry to raise anything but cactus. All that dust does
look picturesque doesn't it? (N.B.: I live in Texas, and the number of
stupid, DELIBERATE errors in film as to what this state looks like is
ridiculous. There are absolutely NO MOUNTAINS in east Texas. Forests, yes.
Rocky hills around Austin, yes. But no mountains.) Remember, most indian
tribes (who serve as the inspiration of the nomads) started in the great
eastern forests of the U.S., and when they were forcibly driven out west
into the "American Wastes", they began reciving "support" from the Great
White Father, per treaty. Because Hollywood immortalized them out there, we
think of the indians as "western", when they actually spent only a
half-century fighting settlers in that area, from the start to the finish.
Further, as I noted before, the nomads can't live on the proceeds of
raids on other tribes or even into Sartar, Pent areas, or anywhere else.
The "heroic" explanation for this being emphasized so much sounds good to
me. By necessity, there must be a signifigant vegetarian component in their
diets, but what? Published lore talks almost excusively about herding
animals. Milk is easy, but cheese takes a minimum of processing. Anybody
know enough about primitive cheese-making to say that it could be done by a
nomadic society to whom a metal cook-pot counts as riches? (Not to mention
something difficult to carry.)
I think we can improvise certain berries, roots, herbs, perhaps a
variety of marsh grass found near the Zola Fel, dates from oases, etc. We
know some of this exists, and that tributes from Horn Gate, etc, are common.
Such sources are limited, and subject to abuse; which the nomads know and
therefore they conserve them. Owners of the old Borderlands pack will
remember scenario #7, when the PC's must contest for the right to enter an
oasis, *and the loser of the contest must leave, even if native Praxian.*
The stated reason was that the oasis couldn't support everyone.
Obviously the ecology of Prax and the Wastes has not yet been worked
out in detail, and needs to be addressed by someone expert in (or at least well
acquainted with) just what hunter-gathering societies used for food, not to
mention their wilderness lore. (It's said that nothing is left of a
slaughtered animal, all is consumed/used. To what uses are the hooves &
teeth put? What of the bones? The cartalige and inedible
tendons/ligaments?) Otherwise, we'll continue to get unrealistic and
contradictory assessments of the region and it's peoples.
I could go on a lot longer, but you get the idea.
Charlie Domino
---------------------
From: glidedw@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Donald Wilton)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 09 Sep 1993, part 1
Message-ID:
Date: 11 Sep 93 15:12:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1643
My original statement concerning religion took into account the existing
magic. We have atheists, because science works better at explaining the
universe, than superstition. In Glorantha, or any magical fiction place,
that isn't always the case. We can be gulled into believing in a variety
of things, without magic. With magic, this becomes harder. I agree that
culture and place in society have great power to determine what a person
does, and would seem moreso in a world where magic has that kind of power.
I wonder for the player characters. Since people play to bring out parts
of their character best left sheathed in the normal world, as I do, then
using a diety who gives no power, seems a waste. I have yet to meet the
GM, who doesn't eventually throw a monster or three at you, and the
ability to sing nice songs, because they fit the culture, will get you
killed; hence the question on what you get.
---------------------
From: glidedw@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Donald Wilton)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 09 Sep 1993, part 2
Message-ID:
Date: 11 Sep 93 15:29:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1644
About spirits, etc.
The spirit plane is very different from our own. to say that "spirit
places exist," would be to talk about the presence of either Bad Man,
Horned God, etc. beings. The spirits don't perceive our place in any
fashion, that relates to earthly existence. There may be earthly spirit
rich places, but they relate to races, cultures and worship.
---------------------
From: carlf@panix.com (Carl Fink)
Subject: worlds, spirits, world-spirits
Message-ID: <199309120610.AA17840@panix.com>
Date: 11 Sep 93 22:10:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1645
watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson) writes:
R>This is a question that's bothered me for a while: What can a Priest do
>about possession? Say, he is covertly possessed by a spirit; can the Priest
>do *anything* about it? It seems (in RQIII rules) only shamans can perform
>exorcisms. Does the Priest have to crawl to the nearest tame shaman?
R>The same question goes for sorcerors too. I can't imagine sorcerors
>consorting with shamans (or vice versa), but I guess they'd have to if they
>got possessed.
Well, the easy thing is to summon a healing spirit to evict the
possessing spirit.
staats@MIT.EDU (Richard C. Staats) writes:
R>The world is lozenge shaped I thought, i.e. bulges out at the center.
>That way, you have the same effect you do on a spherical world.
Actually, see _World of Glorantha_. It's _concave_, leaning _down_ to
Magasta's Pool. If a ship doesn't use oar or sails, it slides downward
until sucked into the Pool.
---------------------
From: henkl@holland.sun.com (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: A newbie's perspective
Message-ID: <1993Sep12.061137.15842@holland.sun.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1993 06:11:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1646
>From: mmlab!cookec%max@uunet.UU.NET (Kiliki, a.k.a. Chris Cooke)
>Many thanks to David Cheng, Jim Rogers, The Labyrinth in Baltimore, MD (for
>letting us use a room and special ordering my RQ materials) and most of all,
>this digest and all of you. This is shapeing up nicely. If there is enough
>interest I'll continue to post my newbie's perspectives and ongoing campaign
>developments.
>--
>| Chris Cooke - cookec@mmlab.UUCP cookec@mml.mmc.com |
>| Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug... |
Success! Thanks for the contribution...
--
Henk | Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
---------------------
From: gal502@cscgpo.anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell)
Subject: Living God Learners?
Message-ID: <9309120711.AA11091@cscgpo>
Date: 12 Sep 93 17:11:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1647
In a discussion with Nick Brooke about the God Learners I had an
odd thought that he suggested I post to the list:
Could the Loskalmi still be God Learners?
In the history of Loskalm we are told that at the end of the 2nd Age
the Loskalmi abandoned the GL's before the general devastation, and that
they suffered less damage as a consequence. Perhaps this was a group
of GL's seeing the way the wind was blowing and severing their link to
the doomed, in the same way that Caladra and Aurelion did (see ToTRM,
No 6 I think).
The reason I think this could have happened is the attitude of the
Loskalmi to the gods: both Snodal's killing of the God of Silver
Feet and Meriatan's knowledge of how to rob the Hero Plane for weapons
amd magic both resemble the basic God Learner attitude that the Hero
Plane should be manipulated for mundane benefit. This behaviour doesn't
seem much like the usual Malkionist attitude of complete disregard of
the other gods and the mythic plane.
The other main reason that I think this could be so is the way the
Hrestoli seem so much more advanced in technology, organisation and
magic than most of the other Western societies. The Syndics Ban would
have been a great way of hiding any God Learner magic that went on
behind it.
Just a thought. :-)
On a related note: what cultures do you think would have been left
unaffected by the God Learners? Nick and I agree that the Dara Happans
(who were so far away from the sea) and the Pentan and Praxian nomads
(who were so uninteresting) would probably have their myths unharmed.
I suspect that they couldn't do anything to the Mostali.
Any others that people can think of?
Graeme Lindsell a.k.a gal502@huxley.anu.edu.au
---------------------
From: kenrolston@aol.com
Subject: Dorastor oops
Message-ID: <9309121413.tn100608@aol.com>
Date: 12 Sep 93 18:13:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1648
Clay:
>>>Perhaps you could clear up a couple of Dorastor questions - Hungry Jack in
the
Contents list becomes Hungry eater in the Encounters section - which was
meant
to be correct; Hungry Jack was in the Dragon Pass game - never heard of
Hungry
Eater. Or did Ethilrist kill Jack so you had to change his name. (If this was
a
typo then I agologise for bringing it up :-)<<<
Hungry Jack listing in contents is wrong, and should have been changed to
Hungry Eater.
>>> the other Ralzakark", the "hairy broo with a scorpion arm" (depicted on
the
cover of the >Genertela box!)
Is this really a picture of the other Ralzakark?<<<
Rolston doesn't know. The artist swears that it is a genuine depiction based
on a divination-confirmed eye-witness account.
______
Rob Mace:
Your campaign precis is way cool. Congratulations on such a long and fruitful
campaign.
____
RuneCzar
There are many servants in the Mansions of Yelm, but I doubt a single one can
make a decent cup of tea. --- Hector the Wise
---------------------
From: mabeyke@batman.b11.ingr.com (boris)
Subject: What the Walrus Said!
Message-ID: <199309121954.AA26831@batman.b11.ingr.com>
Date: 12 Sep 93 19:54:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1649
Just got back from ConFrancisco, and finished slogging through the pile
of email waiting for me. Thought I'd post a few things.
What I Did On My Summer Vacation:
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
I took a pile (~40) RQCon fliers and left them on the con flier table at
CF. The next day they were all gone. I guess I should have taken a lot
more ;-)
I mentioned here a month or so ago that I was thinking of having a friend
of mine who does bronze sculpture do a set of runes for RQCon. Well, both
Greg Stafford and Butch Honeck (the sculptor) were at WorldCon, and after
getting Greg's blessing, I sketched out the first piece for Butch (a round
medallion with the Storm, Mastery, and Movement runes).
Well, two days later when I went by to see how Butch was doing (he had the
wax done by then), and Greg was talking to him. Greg really likes his
work, and they are arranging a deal for Butch to do official, Stafford
approved numbered sets of Runes. If no irreconcilable differences are
encountered (they are both artists, afterall), Greg hopes to have them
ready for RQCon himself, possibly later. I pointed out that Butch does
excellent dragons, so the Chaosium logo/EWF Symbol/Argrath's Emblem would
be a cool thing to have him do as well. Butch promised to keep me informed
on how things progress (thankful that I just possibly swung lots of new
business his way), so I'll pass on anything I hear.
After Butch and Greg finished talking, Greg and I wandered off discussing
a number of things. (I had never met him before; no one on the net seems
to have mentioned how infectiously enthusiastic he is.) I mentioned the
RQTarot that had been bandied about here. His opinion was that Tarot use
was mostly a Solar concept (adopted by the Lunars, of course), and would
at most be a very recent import to Orlanthi culture. He also mentioned
that Solar mythology has only four elements (I assume Darkness, Sea, Earth,
and Sky from the conversation, though he didn't say and I didn't think to
ask). I asked him then whether the Lunars had five or six elements; he
said he wasn't sure yet. He then talked about the book(s) he's working on.
I wish I had had a tape recorder with me; much is just a jumble now. But
all in all it was fascinating.
Idea For Sun Dome Templar History:
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
A friend of mine started a Ralian (Delelan) campaign. Figuring that this
was a traditional Orlanthi area separated by impassable mountains from
the Yelmalio schism, I played an Elmali. This got me thinking about the
similarities between the cults. I decided that the use of mercenaries
developed because of the myth based cult obligations. Since Elmal
protected the home while Orlanth went on the Lightbringers' Quest, I
figured that traditionally, the Elmal Temple is expected to provide guards
for the Orlanth and Ernalda temples during Darkness and Storm seasons,
while the Wind Lords are off leading pious Orlanthi on missions against
chaos and darkness. The Elmal cult, being a minority, eventually came to
hire mercenaries to help. Since they needed to raise money to do this,
and they already had the military command structure, they would find it
worthwhile to retain the mercs all the time, and hire them out during the
rest of the year. The need for money also would tend to make them more
clannish than the other minor cults, which eventually led to the schism.
Comments:
vvvvvvvv
Mr Robert McArthur said in X-RQ-ID: 1594
>If I remember correctly, somewhere is KoS it says that a god (Orlanth I
>think (I hope :-)) was 'only cut up into 49 pieces and so survived because
>there was one piece left'. If so, there may be an exact number of pieces
>that a god needs to be defenestrated into in order not to reform on its own.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^?
Somehow the thought of throwing Orlanth out a window and having him bust
into a bunch of pieces (or is he chopped up first and then each piece
thrown out a separate window?) made me chuckle. No offense, please, I
just found it amusing. ;-)
Paul Reilly said in X-RQ-ID: 1614
> (Dr. Longhair's excellent treatise deleted)
Excellent explaination for the phenomenon. Pay no mind to that obviously
insane quack ;-) Mercator; you have the truth of the matter here, I'm
certain.
-----
Boris L:-{)} (Mustached and bearded Lhankor Mhyte w/mortarboard & tassle).
---------------------
From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
Subject: Jurassic Park Glorantha
Message-ID: <9309130443.AA00796@cs.uwa.edu.au>
Date: 13 Sep 93 06:55:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1650
I have been a fan of dinosaurs for some time before the current
hysteria, but there are at least several worthwhile TV shows on the subject
about at the moment. Watching one of them last night (the one on the ABC on
sunday nights, for fellow Australians) I got to thinking about dinosaurs in
Glorantha, and their ecological feasibility.
Now Allosuars and similar big predators are not that impossible, though
they would probably go through quite a few herd beasts, so I would expect them
to be pretty rare. But the large herd beast numbers in those parts of Glorantha
with allosaurs (Prax and Balazar that I am aware of) makes them not unreasonable
and there are enough very big things to give them something to eat (the natural
enemy of the Cliff Toad?).
Trachadons/Magisaurs are pretty special case - they are a species
associated with things draconic, and have limited intelligence. Still, they need
to eat, but the River of Cradles can probably support them in limited numbers
(the 'duck-billed' dinosaurs are vegetarian, I can't recall wether magisaur
diet is mentioned).
Triceratopsians seem to exist mostly in captivity - I have only seen
them mentioned as Dragonnewt or Maran Gor cult battle units. And I have seen
very little mention of pteranadons and stegosaurs in Glornatha - though both
exist (stegasaurs in Elder Secrets, pteranadons in Dragon Pass).
But the thing that worries me the most is the brontosaurs (officially
apatosaurs). The amount of material that these things eat is enormous,
especially as they travel in herds. An average herd of 5 brontosauri could
happily munch their way through acres of vegetation a day.
I am not even convinced that there is enough vegetation to keep them alive.
They generally lived in very densely vegetated areas. There are two theories,
the older version (probably the one considered when they were originally
introduced into Glorantha) was that they lived in water and were too big to
survive much outside it, the more modern version (demonstrated in Jurassic
Park) is that they are capable of rearing up on their tales, and were able
to get the huge amounts of food they need because they can consume all the
foliage of a tree - from the top to the bottom. Either version (and they are
not mutually exclusive) make these things immensely destructive to more
modern ecosystem. If the only plants around are modern water plants - reeds
and such, rather than giant ferns and jungle, then a brontasaur herd will go
through acres a day, and it will not really recover for some time. Certainly
Prax or most of Balazar will not have nearly enough vegetation for them to
survive, these things don't eat just grass.
So my basic point is that a long term brontasaur population can only
really be supported by very lush vegetation. The jungles of Slon and such are
quite reasonable places to support brontosaur herds, but I can't see their
being a permanent population on the River of Cradles, or central Balazar. So
where do they come from? Possible they could live in the rather small elf woods
near Dagori Inkarth, and perhaps in the giant fungi forests near Dagori Inkarth,
and maybe the Vale of Flowers? In Balazar, I presume that they live in the
woods, especially those near the Elf Sea (perhaps they wade in the shallows).a
And remember, if encountered on the River of Cradles, the marks of their
passing are not going to be inconspicuous).
And there are always the rumoured were-dinosaurs of Beast Valley (more
than a rumour, know that Plate-Walker has been sighted).....
Cheers
Dave Cake