From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 15 Sep 1993, part 1
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Precedence: junk
The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
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Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
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Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:
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---------------------
From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham , via RadioMail)
Subject: Philosopher Kings
Message-ID: <199309140616.AA25332@radiomail.net>
Date: 14 Sep 93 06:15:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1665
So, where in Glorantha would you find Plato's Philosopher Kings? No, not
the civilized Lunar Empire. Try barbarian Sartar!
How so? If a clan has a Lightbringer council, they have a Lhankor Mhy the
Sage position. [King of Sartar p. 253] Presumably this is filled by a
Lhankor Mhy initiate if at all possible.
However, Lhankor Mhy initiates are considered "eccentric, strange, exotic,
or dangerous." [246] Thus, we can assume that they're rare. But at the same
time, they're needed for clan (and tribal [256]) councils. Thus, if you're
a philosopher (LM initiate), you're probably a power behind the throne
(council member). At least if you're in a Lightbringer council clan...
This suggests that the road to power is to join a cult like Chalana Arroy
or Lhankor Mhy. True, you won't be a leader, but you'll have access to (and
participation in) the leadership that chances are you'd never get if you
worshipped Orlanth.
David Dunham * Software Designer * Pensee Corporation
Voice/Fax: 206-783-7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddunham@radiomail.net
---------------------
From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: AH idiocy
Message-ID:
Date: 14 Sep 93 02:35:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1666
GF here.
In the latest issue of RQ Adventures fanzine, John Castellucci writes:
"Things look very shaky at Avalon Hill these days. Ken Rolston is no longer
Rune Czar. It all came down to $$$, which Monarch Games did not want to
invest in the RQ product line. The future is uncertain."
Can anyone out there in net-land tell us more about this? Ken, are you
there? Pardon my ignorance, but in Monarch Games the parent company of AH,
then? Does this mean no more puclications on line for the present? What
kind of idiocy is going on over at AH? Wasn't K R only installed as Rune
Czar just a few months ago?! And then they cut the ground out from under
him?! It boggles the mind. So much for the RQ Renaissance if this all true!
Argh!
---------------------
From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Visions and Praxian Animals
Message-ID: <9309140858.AA23245@Sun.COM>
Date: 14 Sep 93 09:04:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1667
Ref: 1641 (Paul)
It is not just a Greek idea that people shoot beams of Visions
(Visual Particles) out of their eyes which bounce back off things.
A well know game designer believes this too.
In DnD the eyes of a creature using infravision glow in the dark!
I assume this is because they are emmitting InfraRed Visions!
Ref: 1642 (Charlie Domino)
Here are some uses for the bits of beasties that you mentioned:
Hooves -- boiled down to make glue
Teeth -- Jewelry and posssible starp edges for tools and weapons.
I imagine that bison teeth make good scrapers.
Bones -- Armour (ref: american indians), tools, weapons, tent pegs and poles
and also fuel for fires in winter (bones burns well if you get it hot enough).
Tendon -- String to secure tool heads to handles etc.
Ligament String
Cartalige beats me but I assume that someone can come up with a use for it.
When you are reading the above remember that wood is very scare in Prax so
that other materials are generally used were we would use it.
I suspect that Mold Bone is a fairly common spirit spell in Prax (Ref: that
Rhino Rider's Lance in Plunder made from the bones of a giant's leg).
Remember only the resourceful survive in the wastes.
-----
Lewis
-----
---------------------
From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Sticks and Shamanism
Message-ID: <930914091647_100270.337_BHB33-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 14 Sep 93 09:16:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1668
____________________
Greg Fried lamented:
> But I guess the preference is for 'Swords and Sorcery', not 'Sticks
> and Shamanism', and so we put all our RQ4 effort into the sorcery
> system, and not into the spirit world. Ah, well.
What a lovely label! Yup, I'm a 'Sticks & Shamanism' fan myself -- one of
my favourite RQ adventure settings was Jon Quaife's Ancestor Quest. I keep
intending to run BaboonQuest some day...
Chroming up the spirit magic rules so we do "real" shamanic stuff (like
sucking out thorns to heal disease, casting evil eyes, eating
hallucinogenic mushrooms, drumming and dancing and disembowelling, etc.)
would be a good step forward. Wouldn't need any rules changes, either --
though you'd have to be clear about the differences between divine cult
spirit magic and primitive shamanic animist magic.
> The Glowline reflects a simple political boundary, and the Temple,
> the Glowline, and the political reality are all tied in together and
> inter-dependent.
Not quite true -- consider Ormsgone Valley, contained within the Tarsh
Temple's Glowline but definitely *not* a part of the Empire.
____________________
Neil Robinson asked:
> I was browsing through my copies of Worms Footnotes, and had a few
> questions. ^ ? ^
> WF 5:
> On the map on page 33 they show the Western and Eastern Continents
> (Lands of Dusk and Dawn respectively). I know the Eastern Continent
> is now the Eastern Isles, but what about the Western Continent?
Luathela, Land of Dusk, is prominent in the Lightbringers' Quest (see KoS)
and at the end of Second Age Seshnelan History. The Luatha are *extremely*
dangerous demigods (cf. Elder Secrets for details, such as they are). And
Rausa is now a terrible enemy goddess to Orlanth! (Feed me lots of beer at
RQCon, then ask me whose enemy she used to be).
And the Empire of Vithela is still there, just East of the Eastern Isles!
___________________
David Dunham asked:
> On p. 53 of Dorastor, Soulwaste the Hellwood Elf is an initiate of
> Tyram. Who is this deity (or subcult)?
TYRAM -- Chaos Sky God
Tyram was at the head of the chaos horde that invaded the heavens.
For a time he gained ground, even forcing Dayzatar back. Finally,
however, Orlanth armed with thunderbolts defeated him and cast him
from the Sky.
Source: Tales #8, The Chaos Feature
__________________
Clay Luther asked:
> What are the results of possession by a severed head ghost?
Best version I ever saw is in Jon Quaife's "A Tale To Tell" (in Shadows on
the Borderland) -- the possessed person acts in an insane manner depending
on which particular head-ghost possessed him. But INT-destroying etc. seems
reasonable to me. It would be nice if the characters weren't quite sure
what would happen each time -- it shouldn't become a routine thing.
______________________________
Tom Zunder said, perceptively:
> I don't understand why people hate Tradetalk.
> Earth has many such lingua franca.
^^^^
That's why people hate Tradetalk: Glorantha as written has just one.
> I know GS will hate this but isn't Gloranthan cosmology patriarchal?
> Male gods dominate Time and pre-Time, male concepts such as Death
> dominate the whole essence.
Perhaps it's in the nature of males to dominate, and therefore they do?
____________
Lewis wrote:
> Note, that the Mostali do similar things, but do them to help repair
> the World Machine. If the Mostali lost sight of this goal they might
> well sink down the path of the GLs and become a menace to all of
> creation (Apostate dwarves worry me!).
Apostate dwarfs worry you? It's the dedicated ones that terrify me!! Have
you ever considered what would happen if the Doomsday Machine started to
work again, and free will, growth, organic life and other non-Mostali
concepts were wiped from the world?
I enjoyed your analysis of the God Learners. The Lunar Connection: has it
struck you that the essential difference between the God Learners and the
Lunar Empire is that the Empire has access to an infinitely-renewable
energy supply? The Moon is always mythologically associated with rebirth,
renewal, recycling. Could it be that the Lunar Empire hopes through limited
use of Chaos to rebuild the parts of the world that its other GLesque
activities are depleting?
> In fact, only one regime in history has been more damaging to both the
> natural world and our mythological heritage that our current capitalist,
> centrally-controlled regimes and that was the Soviet communist
> dictatorship.
Ah, the evil Red Empire! I knew you'd have considered the Lunars ;-)
====
Nick
====
---------------------
From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham Entropy requires no maintenance)
Subject: Re: Glorantha is patriarchal
Message-ID: <01H2X7IPYRMA000X58@UG.EDS.COM>
Date: 13 Sep 93 19:20:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1669
Tom.Zunder@mettav.royle.org (Tom Zunder) in X-RQ-ID: 1654 asked
"I know GS will hate this but isn't Gloranthan cosmology
patrarchal?"
Yes; which was part of my ulterior motivation for the Earth cult
article that appeared in ToTRM#7 : I set myself the mischeivous
aim of trying, within the contraints of the existing material
(rather than taking the easy way out and ignoring it) to locate
an agrarian utopia out of feminist fiction in Glorantha.
I'm also fairly certain that the Sazdorf trolls show a lot of
post-hoc rationalisation as the reflex "King of the Trolls" that
just tripped off the tongue had to be retrofitted to the
dark=female assumption.
---------------------
From: pearton@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za (Dave Pearton)
Subject: Spirit interactions
Message-ID:
Date: 14 Sep 93 14:18:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1670
Re: Spirit "Combat"
I agree with Greg, Graeme and David in that I feel that the spirit
plane must be more than a featureless place for shamans to plunder for
spells and power. I like Greg' ideas of different strategies other
than POW-POW struggles, but I feel that even the Characteristics
aproach is too "combat" orientated. The basic problem with spirit
interaction is that it is so difficult for the normal person to know
or even understand their motivations and desires. This is where the
shaman is better at dealing with spirits (not defined in some nebulous
"spirit combat" skill), but rather his connection to the spirit world
allows him a far greater understanding of the needs, wants and desires
of a spirit. Thus whereas a normal person will have culturally limited
ideas of what he can do with local and cultural spirits (the spirits of
the bear will be placated and aid my hunting if we daqnxe this dance
and offer gifts of honey and tabbaco) more complex interactions require
the specialised mediation of the shaman. Thus the shaman not only
knows the local/ cultural spirits in greater detail than the average
joe, but he is able to find out, via his contact with the spirit plane
to understand more complex/out of the ordinary events and how to deal
with them. Thus if the salmon are not running or avoiding being caught
he can undertake a spirit quest to find out the source of the problem
and how to propriate the spirits. This would also mean that the shaman
would be able to find out about spirits not within his cultural norm
through his greater knowledge gathering skills and an appreciation of
general spirit motivations.
How we would develope rule for this I don't know :(. But I'm willing
to give it a bash (but I'll keep the rules aspect to the RQ4-playtest
list. It I get something worth writing that is!)
Yak
--
***********************************************************************
Dave Pearton * ....As I was saying before I
Biochemistry Dept. * was so rudely interrupted
University of Natal * by one of my multiple
Pietermaritzburg * personalities....
*
pearton@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za * Naked Lunch (W.S. Burroughs)
************************************************************************
---------------------
From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Exorcising Spirits
Message-ID: <9309141212.AA18623@condor>
Date: 14 Sep 93 12:12:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1671
Carl:
It's fair enough to use a healing spirit to exorcise a disease spirit, but
will it work on a passion spirit? What about overt possession (eg. by a ghost)?
It would make healing spirits a lot more useful than I thought they were...
Tom:
I'd considered DI as an option for exorcising spirits but it seemed a little
heavy handed. I like the idea of using cult spirits tho'. In return for doing
the exorcism they might "borrow" the body for while to indulge in the worldly
affairs of the cult.
Greg:
I'd like to hear more about the "spiritual weapons" idea. Would they be like
ritual spells? Or like skills (a la Sorcery skills)? I considered introducing
a spell called Exorcise (Ritual, Ceremony) which simply allowed the caster
to engage in spirit combat (without actually discorporating per se). It would
be available as a Divine or Sorcery spell (not Spirit Magic). Being a
ritual spell it could not be used in a combat situation. (Nasty cults might
use it to possess prisoners though>:->). Does this seem fair, or does it make
life too easy?
Another idea: Is there a qualitative difference between a discorporate shaman
and any run-of-the-mill magic spirit? Call me a God Learner sympathiser, but
I kinda like the idea of nasty Lunar sorcerors Summoning & Dominating shamans.
Heh, and of course Binding them for use at a later date...>:->
['scuse me while I cackle insanely...]
CW.
---------------------
From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: minor points
Message-ID:
Date: 14 Sep 93 16:36:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1672
Greg Fried here.
Donald:
It seems to me that you are over-influenced by what you would expect an
ADVENTURER'S motivations to be in choosing a cult. Other inhabitants of the
world would have the cultural reasons given by others to join
non-power-gaming cults that offer little by way of gross magic. But even
with this in mind, it seems you forget that a person may be a member of
SEVERAL cults. An adventurer might join a cult that offers few magical
powers in order to make certain secular connections, or to honor a god,
without this affecting his or her primary allegiance to the more obviously
potent Orlanth, Yelmalio, etc.
===
Dave Henry:
The next issue of John Castellucci's RQ Adventures is slated to include a
scenario around the Block! DUe out around DunDraCon in February. Correct,
John?
GF out.
---------------------
From: pvanheus@cs.uct.ac.za (Peter van Heusden)
Subject: Tradetalk and Bantu
Message-ID:
Date: 14 Sep 93 20:38:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1673
Oh damn, forgot who wrote this:
> Tradetalk
> ---------
>
> I don't understand why people hate Tradetalk. Earth has many such
> lingua franca. The most obvious being Swahili and Bantu in Africa.
^^^^^^^^^
Bantu? What's Bantu? All I know Bantu as is a generic term for black, currently
very out of favour.
Peter
*******************************************************************************
Peter van Heusden One man one newsfeed
CS3, UCT, Cape Town, RSA "but I love the setting. and the hippies
pvanheus@cs.uct.ac.za will be back in the fall" Red_Guest on MediaMOO
---------------------
From: clay@cool.vortech.com (Clay Luther)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 14 Sep 1993, part 3
Message-ID: <199309141648.AA02747@cool.vortech.com>
Date: 14 Sep 93 06:48:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1674
> From: steve@psycho.demon.co.uk (Steve Thomas)
>
> Clay Luther says: (and Greg Fried seems to agree)
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >However, with the fall of the GLs, I think Issaries, without the external
> >pressure of the Jrusteli to reform the cult, would return itself to its
> >original (GodTime) principles IF most of the Jrusteli modified myth is
> >forgotten after that time.
>
> Aah, but the God-Learners CHANGED the original (GodTime) principles.
> The only way to find out what the 'pre-change' principles were was to talk
> to someone like Ralzakark or that old fool in Tink who were there in the
> first age.
First, we don't know how much the GLs changed Issaries (I think not very
much at all) and, second, history proves that myth is highly mutable. By your
very argument, the changes wrought on Issaries by the GLs several hundred
years ago may have themselves changed back by now. What is to say that
Issaries didn't shed GL influence (though I think this unlikely -- like I said,
I doubt the GLs affected the cult much anyway) after their demise? Certainly
avatars of the god existed at the fringe of the GL influence and were probably
saved from any Jrusteli-motivated change. With the GL energy destroyed
or redirected from the cult, these avatars could return and "restore" or
"repair" the cult. I don't see this repair as driven by any sort of
intelligence or willful intent, just a natural evolution (or devolution) of
the cult to bring it back to stasis.
But I disagree with your assumption that the GLs could whole-heartedly change
the myth without leaving some stamp. History proves that this cannot be
done. Changes to myths always leave artifacts and questions. The proof:
before the Jrusteli, our people did not question the myths. After the
Jrusteli, the myths had been tampered with and our people could no longer
agree on the truth. This is inference. If the Jrusteli were such powerful
mythmagicians that they could alter the myth without detection, where do the
contradictions come from? It only proves the Jrusteli were mere tinkerers and
tricksters, incapable of true recreation. It also proves that Issaries
escaped major Jrusteli tampering, since his myths cause very little
disagreement.
--
Clay Luther clay@cool.vortech.com
Software Engineer Kodak Health Imaging Systems
Yelo's gift was a necklace of clam shells from the Ouel Stream strung on gut
string with a delicate knot of reeds which performed the role of pendant.
---------------------
From: clay@cool.vortech.com (Clay Luther)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 14 Sep 1993, part 2
Message-ID: <199309141625.AA02670@cool.vortech.com>
Date: 14 Sep 93 06:25:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1675
> animals. Milk is easy, but cheese takes a minimum of processing. Anybody
> know enough about primitive cheese-making to say that it could be done by a
> nomadic society to whom a metal cook-pot counts as riches? (Not to mention
> something difficult to carry.)
The first cheeses were created by desert nomads who would place milk into
bladders and hang them from their mounts. The heat and jostling would
produce both butter and cheese in the bladder.
> Charlie Domino
--
Clay Luther clay@cool.vortech.com
Software Engineer Kodak Health Imaging Systems
Yelo's gift was a necklace of clam shells from the Ouel Stream strung on gut
string with a delicate knot of reeds which performed the role of pendant.
---------------------
From: timbee@timbee.rnd.symix.com (Tim Beecher)
Subject: Delecti : Vampire , Ghoul , or Amway Deterrent
Message-ID: <9309141818.AA02289@timbee.rnd.symix.com.symix>
Date: 14 Sep 93 18:18:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1676
Delecti: Vampire , Ghoul , or Amway Deterrent
>
> > * I remember a roumour that Delecti (a surviving EWF refugee) may not realy be a
> > vampire at all. If so, is he even chaotic? OK, so the upland marsh is full of
> > undead, but troll use undead too so that does not imply chaos.
> >
> Delecti is certainly not a conventional vampire - rather than keeping
> his physical body alive, he inhabits bodies of the newly dead. Perhaps Delecti
> is actually more like a ghoul? But he is a Vivamort cult hero, however, so
> don't read too much into him not being a vampire - I think that he is more than
> a vampire, but shares many of their motivations. He has not just zombies and
> skeletons and ghosts (like trolls) but vampires as well (for example, see
> The attack on the Tower of the Dead in TOTRM#5) among his followers. He also
> has acess to EWF knowledge, which may give him magics others are quite unaware
> of.
> BTW - does anybody know what his vampires feed on? Are their many
> captives in the marsh (serious adventurer motivation), or do they eat
> non-sentients, or summoned spirits (grumpy vampires), or perhaps Delecti has
> special magics to keep them alive somehow. Perhaps they raid the ducks a lot
> (no wonder ducks join Humakt)?
There is an obvious answer to this . Delecti may have started as a vampire but
has done Heroquesting . Heroquesting gives unique powers to individuals among
other things and there is no rule against non-humans heroquesting . He has
picked up some additional abilities along the way .
What are the main clans of the ducks ?
Swanson, Banquet , Freezer Queen , and Budget Gourmet
Tim Beecher
(Corporate Eurmal)