From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 15 Sep 1993, part 2
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Precedence: junk
The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.
Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the
Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying.
Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you
want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at
RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM.
Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:
RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)
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From: C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (Newton Hughes)
Subject: more moon stuff
Message-ID: <9309142048.AA22069@Sun.COM>
Date: 14 Sep 93 20:44:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1677
GF's spirit plane ideas are good, but I don't like the idea of compli-
cating spirit combat. Even rqiv's addition of spirit combat skill
bothers me a lot. If I was going to make one change in spirit combat
I'd make the amount of MPs lost proportionate to the winner's MPs.
Otherwise I'd leave it alone, or simplify it, but not add skills.
Emphasizing myth over game mechanics is a good idea.
David Cake writes:
>. . . I think of the original Nysalor cultists as naive, with
> very liberal attitudes to chaos and cult associations, and perhaps
> some of the Lunar Empire is like this - particulary the civilised
> inhabitants of the heartlands - that have never actually seen evil
> the heartlands - that have never actually seen evil chaos in action.
If DC will forgive me for using his words this way, I see this line
of reasoning as a possible justification for an always full Red Moon
within the Glowline. I'm also thinking of the Dorastor history, and
how the inhabitants of the Bright Empire had no idea what abuses were
being committed in the outlying provinces. Shadow exists on the edge
of light, but the people within the light are not in the best position
to see the shadow.
Also, if you hold to the searchlight theory, you lose the symbolic
correspondence between days and phases.
David Cake also writes:
>Sorry for the lenght, but this sort of ambiguity and moral complexity
>is, for me, the way by which Glorantha transcends the Tolkeinesque
>quest fantasy upon which so much FRPing is based.
Most of D&D fantasy denies the true complexity of problems. The
worst example I can think of is Terry Brooks' Sword of Shannara, which
is a total cop-out. LotR gets sappy, too.
Lewis adds, commenting on the implications of God Learner hubris-and-
come-uppence to The Real World:
>Hell, it really frightens me.
Me, too.
nh
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From: USERHKW9@um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Nomad Diets
Message-ID: <25709503@um.cc.umich.edu>
Date: 14 Sep 93 22:32:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1678
Charlie Domino asked about nomadic eats....
From my passing experience with nomads of this world I have seen them
make and eat yoghurt in many places and cheese only once, a sort of salty
cream cheese easten with bread. I have recently read that central asian
nomads make balls of dried yoghurt for winter food. I'd seen them, but didn't
know what they were. In times of plenty they'd make good sling stones. Lots
of these guys also eat sheeps and goats (who don't seem to be much in
evidence on Prax?). Dealing with sedentary societies they can get grains and
then eat bread and rice. It does seem to be true that in the case of large
animals, they are much more valuable as herd, work and trade. You can buy a
pickup for the selling price of a few camels, though such a GL device would
cost substantially more in Prax. Most of the vegtables I've eaten in nomad
areas seem to be sedentary products, excepting hot peppers and bitter little
melons. Anyways, I ramble....perhaps you could swap lots of yoghurt balls for
bolgs, but would it be worth it....
Josh Wright
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From: glidedw@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Donald Wilton)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 14 Sep 1993, part 2
Message-ID:
Date: 14 Sep 93 09:40:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1679
Within magic may lay the answer to how you can have dinosaurs. If magic,
from elvish populations were to create highly specific plant producing
spells, creating large numbers of fully developed plants, then dinosaurs
could roam at will within elvish society. Elves could claim that dinos
create the need for elves, and elvish magic, so that they have the *right*
to kill intruders, etc. If they didn't do this, everybody would die-the
dinos would eat us out of our plant life!
Viewing gods from an atheist point of view, and perceiving the magic of
the world as unlimited due to this view, creates the possibility of God
Learner societies. GL society seems a good example of Western society as
it is now. This kind of shortsighted view doesn't require an illumination,
it requires an anti-illuminate view, in some respects. A good example was
my investigation of the desire to use E prime.
I found that Dr. Albert Ellis (who helped to invent Rational Emotive
Therapy, a powerful and extremely respected humanist psych system) wanted
an easy answer to language. E prime *seemed* to fill the bill. In some
respects, it makes atheism-seen in the 20's and 30's due to Freud as a
panacea-seem some kind of satori to definitions of psychatric disorder. I
have been atheist all my life, and I have a drinking disorder that I use
RET to deal with. The desire to find an easy answer, that creates the
automatic conversion of others, aka communism, is at the root of fanatic
religion, and at the heart of the Marxist ideology. If only the masses saw
the truth, they'd throw off their chains, their religion, etc. E prime
would be great if it worked.
God Learner ideology, moral blindness (rather than Illumination which
balances and throws the light of reality onto a subject normally cloaked
in mystic jargon) and refusal to perceive any but what they *want* to,
lies at the base of their heresies. The willful destruction, based on
their assumption that there is inherently infinite power to be tapped,
creates the destruction that they have no answer for. Chaos theory shows
that they created Chaos of a new kind, by causing effects, that aren't
easily explained. In this lies thier assumption that Chaos is not
destructive in altering you, if you have the sense of self, needed to
avoid negative alterations. This seems very Lunar, and may explain some of
the similarities between GL and Lunar society. They have chosen to
perceive the reality in a fashion that exists in their view, but not in
the reality. Time will tell, (but not on Thursdays ;>,) what the full
effect of that difference of opinion is.
-------------------------------------------------
On getting more people in.
Run a game, open to new people only. Provide the materials for play
including pregen characters. Limit the rules, and introduce 5% (of
course) more per week, both in complexity and in need for the scenario,
beyond the simple 30% needed to start the game. If every single RQ player
started or attempted to start the game, with ads that state "Go to the
mythological source of yourself! Use a system designed to explore the
ecology of myth, rather than the kill kill kill attitude (except for
Barney the Dino, after all it's a Chaotic critter, and needs to die). Try
to create a game every week that challenges the myths of the player. Get
the data on religion, job, relationship status, so that the reality of the
interior of the person is taken into account. Make a game that bsed on
this criterion permits players to realize that they can role play rather
than dice mechanic, because the background matters.
If every person on this list ran a new game, and got people in the 3 to 4
range, then we'd have more introduced. If you get one out of that to run a
game, that you play in then we'll have more people. Put aside the "buy
your own games materials" attitude. Let them borrow from you, until you
get somebody who wants to buy. You're not the saleperson, Greg is, except
of course the Greg is a Mythical Beast ;>
Role playing games aren't about sales, or market share. they're about
playing agmes. Use that to attract people.
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From: dustin@ocf.Berkeley.EDU (Dustin Tranberg)
Subject: nomads and food
Message-ID: <199309150030.AA16441@locusts.berkeley.edu>
Date: 14 Sep 93 10:30:58 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1680
On the subject of "What do nomads eat?":
If one is a nomad, and if one survives largely on the dairy products
from one's herd animals, then only FEMALE animals are needed, for the
most part. A few good stud bulls for breeding purposes, and the rest
can be milk "cows".
Since (presumably) half of the "calves" born are male, one can keep
the few needed for stud purposes, and eat the rest, without affecting
milk output.
So, eat the bull-calves, and raise the cow-calves to produce milk,
retaining a few bulls as studs.
A highly disturbing thought: Do the Morokanth operate this way? (shudder)
On the question of "How do nomads make cheese?":
I believe that genuine Earth-type Central Asian nomads use skins
and starter cultures (like sourdough). Imagine a bota-bag full of
milk after a few weeks. ;^)
TTFN,
Dustin
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From: wadsley@chipmunk.cita.utoronto.ca
Subject: Spiced up Spirit Combat
Message-ID: <9309150054.AA15600@hawk.cita.utoronto.ca>
Date: 15 Sep 93 00:54:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1681
I really like these ideas about more interesting spirit combat.
I think Greg Fried's ideas about attacking different characteristics
such as INT or CHA are great. These things don't have magic point
equivalents though - and so are losses permanent or do we invent
INT points and so on?
Hows this: There are no eternal sources for spells ( except Gods and
their spell spirits ) - spell spirits don't get renewed - they
beat up other spirits _and_players!_ to get a new spell. Imagine
forking out all that dough to buy a spell just to have the spell
spirit come and take it back again. It would be funny at least.
Maybe all spell spirits who are not directly associated with a
god are spell vultures and stole them from godly spell spirits.
The whole idea of attack and defense skills = modes sounds
a bit like D&D psionics to me: tower of iron will and psychic
crush and all that.
I also like the idea of more developed spirit identities. Personally
I would scrap power spirits and intellect spirits and so on -
they don't fit in and seem to exist only to lend power to
sorcerors and so on. In my opinion a spirit should be a spirit of
something - such as a dead character or even a tree or something.
There are lots of great ( non-Gloranthan ) stories about people who
use this or that source of magical power and it corrupts
them in some way.
James Wadsley.
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From: jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
Subject: earth and moon
Message-ID: <9309150108.AA23343@hp0.zycor.lgc.com>
Date: 15 Sep 93 01:08:03 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1682
>> From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
>> Subject: Shamen are real mans, Man!
>> X-RQ-ID: 1590
>>
>> For reasons stated in the last Daily, I don't think a separate list is
>> necessary for Glorantha-gossip. Thanks for offering us all your time and
>> effort, but I, for one, do like the combination of subjects. And I also
>> think the Daily is like the Hero Plane -- if you put in enough of the right
>> kind of effort, you can influence what it is. That makes it flexible enough
>> for my tastes.
So, were there 7 of us who asked the questions which brought Nick back
into the world?
>> From: C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (Newton Hughes)
>> Subject: red moon
>> X-RQ-ID: 1593
>>
>> 1. The subject of Vinga brings to mind Babeestor Gor and Gorgorma -
>> What is the defining difference between those 2 anyway? (The
>> cult write-up of Babeestor Gor at the soda site seemed to
>> endow her with attributes more appropriate to Gorgorma.)
My take on it:
Babester Gor is vengence from a position of power and duty, though
the net write-up seems to imply a change from the _duty_ of the
avenger, toward a powerful uncontrolled rage.
Gorgorma is the vengence of the raped and powerless, the down-
trodden, the hungry, the tired, the weak, ... the local under-
ground resistance.
>> 3. It would be nice for those outside the Glowline to be able to see
>> the Red Moon; I'm not sure it's so bad that people within
>> couldn't see the phases. You don't want the peasants going
>> nuts every week when they see the moon go dark.
But then the whole concept of the Lunar cycle is detached from Lunar
religion and philosophy. They wouldn't refer to their history in "wanes"
if there wasn't a constant reinforcement that their way had such periodic
phases, on all levels.
'nuther question: Are features of the (red) moon visible from the surface,
or is it just a glowing red orb?
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From: jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
Subject: RGB/CMYK
Message-ID: <9309150232.AA23423@hp0.zycor.lgc.com>
Date: 15 Sep 93 02:32:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1683
>> From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
>> Subject: MANY COLOURED MOON
>> X-RQ-ID: 1606
>>
>> If the white moon was split into coloured parts, one of whom was Yelm (Yellow).
>>
>> If Yelm is yellow
>> Then the "Red Moon" must be magenta
>> And the "Blue Moon" must be cyan
>> For the sum of the parts to be white.
Many moons ago ( sorry - I mean back in the spring ) this debate was going
for a bit. There are two popular color models: RGB and CMY.
To make "white", RGB is additive, while CMY is subtractive. As an example,
lets say some measure of 'red',... is made using a 1 ( least ) to 10 scale:
RGB CMY
Red + Green + Blue => ? <= Cyan + Magenta + Yellow
0 0 0 black 10 10 10
5 5 5 med. grey 5 5 5
10 10 10 white 0 0 0
This cocks up the theory about the split moon bit. Primitives had CMY
worked out, while RGB take a bit more thought & prisms, or possibly just
some mushrooms. Anyway, we'd need a Green Yelm. Hmm, not to satisfying, that.
This is not to say I don't kind of like the idea, it just is a bit hard
to justify. besides, according to ( what I remember of ) Greg's new-and-
improved solar myth, the sun splits into components other than the moons,
when it ceases to live.
>> The exact shade of the Red Goddess is a bit vague.
>> We have the Crimson Bat, Carmine(ia), but wouldn't a Goddess of the
>> middle air have a bit of blue from the sky in her colouration.
There is the mention of Scarlet and Blood Red as well.
FYI: Official Imperial Red Dye, part number CMXXVII-LXXI/xvii, is a vaguely
purplish blood red. ( At least the way I paint _my_ figures ).
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