Bell Digest v930918p2

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 18 Sep 1993, part 2
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Precedence: junk

The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.

Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
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Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest.  If you 
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Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:

RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)

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From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: One bound spirit + fries; to go...
Message-ID: <9309171248.AA06362@condor>
Date: 17 Sep 93 12:48:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1728

I noticed that several posts recently have mentioned PCs *buying* enchanted
items (mostly bound spirits). I just wonder how much this goes on in other
peoples' RQ(III) campaigns:

Donald Wilton talked about how his healer was transformed into a PowerPC
by using a huge amount of cash to buy enchantments etc.
In earlier posts (during the resurgence of the Sorcery debate) people
talked about Sorcerors with rich parents being able to buy bound intellect
spirits and such.

This all sounds a bit unlikely to me. Besides the fact that it's dodgy for
game balance and tends to lead to powergaming, it simply doesn't make much
socio-economic sense. The people most capable of manufacturing such items
(Priests, Shamans, Sorcerors) are the ones least likely to want to sell them
for cash. Ok, fair enough, they might *trade* magic items like-for-like:
"I can bind intellect spirits, you can bind POW spirits. Lets do a swap."
but I don't think these chaps would be so short of cash that they'd *sell*
items:
- Priests are supported by their cult. They don't need much cash. The cult
  has more than enough from initiates' tithes. Ok, priests *might* make
  cult items to be *loaned* to initiates or given to Runelords for services
  rendered. Most likely they'd keep any items they made to improve themselves
  and their temple.
- Shamans similarly have little need of cash. They're supported by their clan.
  If they need cash they can make more than enough by teaching spells to
  outsiders or charging for the occasional exorcism.
- Sorcerors can make bucket-loads of cash simply by casting long-duration
  spells for people. They certainly don't need to sell enchantments.
  Especially bound INT & POW spirits.

So, the way I see it, if some cocky initiate/student approaches his superior
with the attitude "Here's a pile of gold; hand over a bound spirit Ya Bas!"
I think he'd be told where to get off.

I just can't see people waving goodbye to valuable points of permanent POW
in exchange for a pile of coins. My PCs wouldn't. I don't expect NPCs to.

The only time I've seen enchanted items for sale was when said items were
"acquired" by adventurers who couldn't use them (because of conditions).
Even in this case, the adventurers would rather trade them for items which
they *could* use.

So the point I'm getting around to is this:
If you GM; do you let your players buy enchantments?
If you play a PC; does he/she get to buy enchantments?
Do you think it's reasonable to allow such?

Answers on a postcard...

[Maybe the reason that sorcery works well in our campaign is because the GM
 makes the sorcerors *work hard* for their awesome powers...]

CW.

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From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham Entropy requires no maintenance)
Subject: Dorastor & suicidal tendancies
Message-ID: <01H31M6ASLEQ001HWC@UG.EDS.COM>
Date: 16 Sep 93 23:02:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1729

I just saw the Dorastor pack in the new stuff arrived at the 
local games shop here in Cambridge.  Very pretty it looks too.  
Apart from the 20-quid price tag.

I tend to buy gaming stuff fairly omnivorously, even if I'm not 
likely actually to use it "in anger", finding it in many case 
more cost effective in time spent reading per unit expenditure 
than most books, and I've enough spending money, but that sort of 
price makes it non-cost effective.

 I might just be prepared to spring that sort of money for a 
Gloranthan sourcebook (no scenarios, few, if any RQ2 retreads) 
were it as thick a volume as, say Mage:the Ascension (another 
recent arrival at an asking price of 18 pounds for 256pp).

Sun County bombed being priced less than this.

Someone at AH has totally screwed up the marketing, and 
especially the market positioning.  For the same price one can 
buy 3 AD&D card-wallet sourcebooks(6-50), or two of their 
softbound sourcebooks(9-99), or 4 short modules(4-50) - and have 
change left over.  Even fairly substantial supplement sourcebooks 
like the Werewolf Players' Guide (a trifle thicker than Dorastor; 
produced by a comparatively small publisher, rather than the T$R 
megacorporation), retails at 14 pounds.

Or is the pricing a deliberate ploy to kill the game off?

So where do we go from here?  I might personally use AD&D2 as a 
Glorantha system as that makes PCs a bit less brittle (as someone 
commented recently, Glorantha has an ecology fit for heroes - in 
that case I'd also like it to have a mechanic that allows it).

But that, of course, is darkest heresy on this list.  Similarly, 
scrub out Earthdawn (Shadowrun meets AD&D with a 25 quid 
pricetag).

But, hey, what about Ars Magica?  That's politically correct 
enough, surely, although it does cover the relatively high-tech 
(compared with Sartar & Prax) 12th and 13th centuries, has 
cheaper supplements, reputedly has the brittle PCs that many folk 
seem to thing a good thing, and sorcerers no more powerful than 
those of RQ3.  The Shaman supplement looks like it has many of 
the things recently discussed here.   All that'd be neeed would 
be to bolt on the cult/rune-magic mechanics

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From: steve@psycho.demon.co.uk (Steve Thomas)
Subject: violence is always an option
Message-ID: <13@psycho.demon.co.uk>
Date: 17 Sep 93 14:10:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1730

Clay writes:
>I have conferred with my friend, Oster Iminus of Irippi Ontor, and he
>informs me that the correct Imperial spelling is l-u-t-h-e-r.

Hmm..Ornar Greyman, the most wrinkled man in the whole of Greydog Village,
seems to agree with this, so I shall be attending the next "Signes, Sigyls and 
other Divers Scribbles" seminar up at the Swordvale temple.

However, on other matters, your pet scribe (who is merely parroting the words
of the Scarlet Whore herself) is gravely mistaken. Read the words of Loren 
Miller on this subject and despair.

>In pre-time, before the coming of chaos, there were no questions, by the will
>of the Great Heavenly Father, Yelm. 

Ha! once again the totalitarian mentality of the Lunar bureaucrat reveals itself.

_____________________________________________
Loren Miller says a lot of really good stuff about avatars

With which I agree wholeheartedly. I was very pleased to read Greg's answer to
whether the 'Uleria' worshipped in the two different parts of the world were the 
same, since it also answers the question about whether the gods are simply 
figments of the collective imaginations of mortals, or are pre-eminent in their own
right - the answer is both. Lovely.

Steve.

"Nothing smells as good as the body of a dead enemy." - (attrib. Indrodar Greydog)
"Nothing smells as good as the body of a dead enemy." - (attrib. Indrodar Greydog)

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From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 17 Sep 1993, part 2
Message-ID: <9309171348.AA06623@condor>
Date: 17 Sep 93 13:48:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1731

BTW, I think "Mannimark & the Kingdom of Lead" is shaping up great, Clay.
It really brightened my day. Keep up the good work!

CW.

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From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder)
Subject: Dorastor
Message-ID: 
Date: 17 Sep 93 15:17:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1732


Dorastor
Land of Doom

Well, what a nice surprise!

I was expecting slime and chaos, but I 
found Orlanthi, an excellent and interesting
history of the First and Second Councils, 
of Dorastor, Nysalor and Arkat. I saw
how Ralios was colonised and how the whole 
Arkat/Gbaji/Nysalor thing came from
the conflict of Western and Central cultures. 
I found a new campaign area, and a 
campaign just right for new or transferring 
characters. I found out a little more
about the South of the Empire and the nature 
of Lunar power. For our current
Sartar game I got a good write up of the 
Telmori and some good links which will
fill in the Dragon Pass-Dorastor gap. I need 
a little bit more on Sylila and Aggar,
not to mention Tarsh, but I'm motoring now.

So, what a good publication, which 
transcended what I had hoped for, and I still
got slime and chaos. Got to say I look forward 
to Gods of Dorastor, hope AH 
hang in there! (Actually Gods of Doom and 
Terror sounds better to me, but maybe
Nysalor doesn't fit into that category..)

Well I'm still goin to run Pavis and Shadows 
on the B next, but I've got to say
that all those handouts and maps are going 
to turn up with Hurbi at the
earliest opportunity!

Tom!

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From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: Boris?
Message-ID: 
Date: 17 Sep 93 18:04:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1733

THis is Greg with a message for Boris:

Boris, you out there?  For some reason my mail to you is getting returned. 
Please be in touch!  I'll be awy this weekend though.

-- Greg

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From: goroh@fee.unicamp.br (Andre de Oliveira Fernandes)
Subject: RQ IV !!!
Message-ID: <9309171836.AA04227@fee.unicamp.br>
Date: 17 Sep 93 18:37:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1734


	Hi guys!

	Here writes a brazilian RQ fanatic, who needs to import any kind
of RQ stuff. As the years passed, I gathered a lot of the packs (Troll Gods,
Gods of Glorantha, Vikings, Elder Races + Secrets, Griffin Island, and
some others I can't remenber).

	RPGs are suddenly becoming a national fever : everybody is playing
it (always imported RPGs), and Gurps is the only translation we've got!

	But that's not what I'm talking about.

	I've been hearing a lot about a fourth edition of RQ, and I'm very
interested about it. Where and How can I get any info about it ? Is there a
FTP site with some material ?

	And here goes another question: Where (in which box, perhaps) can be
found information about Jrustela (the sunk continent). A LOT of info, I mean.
Are there any remaining God Learners ? How goes the human contacs with the
native elder races after all those centuries of isolation ?

	Thanks for your attention, and excuse me for any mistakes (I'm much
better with portuguese language, I guarantee!).

			Goroh

			goroh@fee.unicamp.br
			(He who hates AD&D)

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From: scn/G=Neil/I=NA/S=Harold/O=Siemens_plc/OU=Congleton@mhs.attmail.com
Subject: Are all Telmori lycanthropes?
Message-ID: <9309172110.AA14804@Sun.COM>
Date: 17 Sep 93 19:16:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1735

I hope I'm not asking a previously answered question, but is
Dorastor now out in the US only? I have seen a few references to
it through this means but haven't as yet heard of it being
available in the UK. If it is available in the UK, where can I
get it?

My main comment is that there is a general acceptance that the
Telmori are all lycanthropes, and all must change into wolf form
at least once a week (on a full-moon). This means that the
RuneMagic offered by Telmor is not really that powerful, as many
of the gained features are "free" anyway. These spells cannot be
cast on non-Telmori, so this makes me ask the above question?

Has anyone actually involved the Telmori in any campaign? I
expect the answer is probably within Dorastor but ......

Also, if anyone has been in contact with the Sartar Telmori I'd
like to hear about it if possible: I've got KoS, Haunted Ruins
and all the basic RQIII stuff but that's about it.

My email address on Internet is neil.harold@siecon.co.uk

or X400: C=GB, A=ATTMAIL, P=SCN, OU1=Congleton, S=Harold, G=Neil

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From: DScott@snail.demon.co.uk (David Scott)
Subject: Canals on the Moon!!
Message-ID: <9309172357.aa04532@post.demon.co.uk>
Date: 17 Sep 93 22:58:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1736

Fellow Digesters

John Medway wrote;

>regarding the moon's "craters" being spiderweb-like lines:
>
>so these are like the "canals" believed to have been on mars?
>are these folds in her cloak as she gathered it around her? wrinkles of 
>age as her empire grew and settled? lines of worry?

Of course there are spiderweb-like lines on the surface of the moon - they ARE 
spider webs from Arachne Solara holding her together and in place in the middle 
sky (cf. the webs that pulled Yelm back on course after Sun Stop - normally 
cannot be seen on the brighter suface of the sun).

Remember when the Goddess was born - the spider gave her protection. (Zero Wane 
in Heroes). Who was her mother?

David

Sandwiches on the edge of time
DScott@Snail.demon.co.uk 158.152.16.30


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From: mmlab!cookec%max@uunet.UU.NET (Kiliki)
Subject: The seduction - night #2
Message-ID: <9309180029.AA05993@relay1.UU.NET>
Date: 18 Sep 93 00:27:13 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1737

Jim:  

You, Greg Fried and most of all, David Cheng convinced me to move beyond just
lurking before I was certain I was ready to GM.  Speaking of which, the
seduction - night 2...

Initially, there was considerable concern over the excessive nature of RQ
damage.  The severed limbs, quick death, etc.  While making the game more
realistic, it detracts from those used to "I take 40hits from the fireball and
kill the sucker" that's almost an exact quote from an earlier AD*D game I
observed.  A bit more orate/fast-talk on my part and off we went - night 2.

The answer to low level damage - make SURE they have at least one person
with Heal-6.  I did NOT start them off at 15years old and no skills.  The
party consists of 2 nomads(Sable tribe, antilope clan), 3 barbarians of the
Sartar borderlands, one civilized native of Moonbroth(the only sorceror, a
Hrestoli-type fighter/explorer) and 2 fugitive ex-gladiators (one a red
minotar, the other a Humakt wannabe, both with bounties).  The minotar's GREAT
comic relief.

For example, a set of Wards was used to guard camp, the minotar being cockey
"tried" to urinate over the wards.  guess what got zapped...  -)} <-beard

Jim's thoughts on mythic identification via cults as a start is on the
money.  I have a human initiate of Aldrya(ranger wannabe) and the Humakt
ex-gladiator.  The warrior style sorceror developed by the end of last night's
game.  I guess some good ideas find themselves.  Can a human member of
Aldrya's cult use the elf bow?  Why or why not?

My current observations, they have done more damage to themselves then I have.
BUT next week (#3) will be more challenging(I hope!  the book says the trip
back is uneventful - wanna bet??).  I'm trying to develop a "feel" for RQ's
game balance.  It was for this reason I chose a canned scenario to start.

That almost caught up with me.  One of the players had the deluxe box(just
purchased I might add) and was reading the write up.  Given the easy
availability of ANYONE reading any write up, how do you deal with too much
player inside info?  I'm used to doing my own but until I get a "feel" for RQ
it seems better to use "canned" adventures.  Thoughts?

I have been succesful enough in 2 nights of seduction that the Labyrinth has
sold one deluxe and 2 standard box sets to date.  The more the players see,
the more they want.  The hardest part was conviceing them to try it.  I think
this is going to work!  We'll see in another couple weeks...

I have some questions, if I could.  Why is armor so expensive yet spells so
cheap?  At 30 + 15 per spell point Heal-6 is only 120 but good armor is at
least 10 times that.  Ok, outside your cult it's 100+50/pt=400 or am I missing
something?  (Costs from Apple Lane I think) How high can they teach?  4?6?12?
Do they have to have the spell that high to teach it as such?

Is spirit magic taught by the cults at a percentage or is that only for
shammans?  How many strike ranks does BladeSharp-2 take to cast from a spell
matrix, 1SR or 2?  Do shammanistic types need a true Shamman(or spell spirit)
to learn spirit magic or can they learn it at a temple?  If a sorceror's Treat
Wounds spell hastens normal healing - why doesn't it speed up the purging of
poison from the character's system(i.e.  cure poison)?  or help disease run
it's course faster(cure disease)? or can intensity be manipulated to do so?

And for the stupid question of the day, why is chaos so wrong and what makes
it so different(better?  worse?)  from pure evil?  

--
| Chris Cooke - cookec@mmlab.UUCP  cookec@mml.mmc.com         |