From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 18 Oct 1993, part 1
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Precedence: junk
The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
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RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)
---------------------
From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: Humakti 'Death Song'
Message-ID: <9310150726.AA26838@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 15 Oct 93 09:26:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2010
In rq-list you write:
>Being a Humakt loyalist (with a soft spot in my heart for ducks: see
>the RQ-Con dispatches), I like how his idea has evolved. This is over a
>year old, but I think it's the latest version of what we agreed would be
>appropriate, yet still quite flavorful:
>DEATH SONG
>- at the end of the _battle_, the invoker irrecoverably dies
Scary. Impressive. Gross. How non-munchkin...
>It might be as short as a few melee rounds, i.e. a single combat
>encounter during an adventure. It might be a whole battlefield
>engagement lasting several hours. [I always like to think how magic
>will affect tabletop minis battles]. However, when GM decrees the
>'battle' is over, Humakt claims the soul of his Sword, even if the
>warrior manages to be totally unscathed.
>Imagine the effect upon the morale of the troops: advancing toward a
>legion of Humakti, they begin to hear all the commanding officers sing
>of the glories awaiting them in Humakt's Hall in Hell...
Reading this send shivers across my spine.
--
Henk | Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
| My first law of computing: "NEVER make assumptions"
---------------------
From: mcarthur@fit.qut.edu.au (Mr Robert McArthur)
Subject: Healing the queen
Message-ID: <199310150729.DAA26668@fitmail.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 15 Oct 93 22:29:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2011
Graeme Lindsell writes
...
> Nope. The Queen is Gundrun the Golden, wife of Hakon the Swimmer, High
> King of the Bilini (Talastar Papers, P12). In the Genertela book it
> gives Talastar a population of 200,000 and claims that the Bilini are
> the largest tribe in the southern part of Talastar. If a relatively
> large Orlanthi kingdom doesn't have at least a minor Temple to one
> of the Lightbringers than I doubt any exist anywhere. She also has
> a Lunar Dee Zola priest as a personal physician.
>
> To take the point one step further, it's says that she was crippled
> by Wasting Disease (affects Str), not Creeping Chills as I said earlier.
> _Ernalda_ gets Restore Health (Strength) (She get Restore (Con) too). In
> the current RQ3 rules Gundrun would have been healed by them as easily by
> Chalana Arroy ie a group of 10 Ernalda acolytes could have sacrificed
> for 1 point of Restore (Strength) each, and she'd be fine.
Well, there are a number of reasons for the Queen not getting better. The
first (and onyl as far as my SB character would see it :-) is that there is
a lunar healing priest around. Seems like the best way to keep someone sick
is to be their physician.
Secondly, when she first came down with the disease, a Chalana Arroy may
have tried to heal her and fumbled with the spell. Result: no healing of
the disease *ever* by Chalana Arroy. This gives the opportunity of course for
some strange healer from far away with different practices/gods the chance
to come in and show their stuff. My prefered reason.
Thirdly, while CA may be able to heal almost any disease, she may not
*want* to, thus not allowing followers to (or at least not letting the magic
work). Let her reasons be obscure, or to do with the potential rebirth of
chaos given the queen's past, something the queen once did (pretty bad huh!),
politics, etc etc.
Fourthly, there exist diseases that CA cannot heal. Part of the lightbringers
quest proved that is true.
Lastly, the compromise states the gods cannot intervene in anothers 'area'.
If the queen has been 'claimed' by Malia, and Malia is *actively* interested
in her demise (ie. keeps a good part of her conscience on the queen) then
I don't think CA can do much.
Well, there's some reasons to think on!
Robert
---------------------
From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham , via RadioMail)
Subject: Strike Ranks; Chalana Arroy
Message-ID: <199310150739.AA18565@radiomail.net>
Date: 15 Oct 93 07:39:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2012
>From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
>Having said all this, I've seen better systems for determining the order of
>actions in other games. For instance, you'd be hard pressed to find a
>system quicker'n'dirtier than "Judge Dredd" RPG (a real fun game!).
>The number of actions per round is based more on skill than anything else.
>It works for gunfights, although I dunno about melee.
Reminds me of the system I used in my cyberpunk/Pendragon campaign:
gunshots went in order of Speed, which was the average of DEX and weapon
skill.
>From: cpearce@nemesis.acs.unt.edu (Chris Pearce)
>A mystery contributor writes:
Was me (David Dunham)--- do I really need to use a signature?
>In any case, while gods and goddesses such as Mahome and Odayla are
>certainly important, in our culture the Lightbringers can still be said to
>be more important--the tribal council is traditionally formed of
>the sons and daughters of the Lightbringers and substitutions occur only
>when there is no suitable Lightbringer priest available.
Yes, this is why I wrote earlier that Chalana Arroy, not Orlanth, is the
cult to choose if you want to have power. But this doesn't eliminate the
quote that Chalana Arroy worshippers are thought to be unusual. Obviously
they're treated with great reverence, but to a culture who has the proverb
"Violence is always an option," anyone who forswears this option is odd.
(Even Ernalda, who dislikes violence, doesn't rule it out.) Likewise, our
(USA) culture respects humanitarian nuns like Mother Teresa, but to go to
the extreme of becoming a nun is a bit odd.
---------------------
From: mcarthur@fit.qut.edu.au (Mr Robert McArthur)
Subject: Dragon Pass
Message-ID: <199310150751.DAA26943@fitmail.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 15 Oct 93 22:51:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2013
Thom Baguley writes
> DRAGON PASS
>
> I just played Hearts and Minds from the Dragon Pass game from start to finish.
> It was the first time the Sartar player has won in any game I have played
> (previous Sartar best was a draw). I think (on balance) the Sartar side is
> slightly weaker (or maybe just slightly harder to play). My real reason for
> bringing this up though is several rule queries:
In the many games I have played, I have been lunar for probably half. I find
lunar slightly easier to play but have won consistently with both - keep
trying. If you're interested I'll pass on some hints for both sides if you
like.
> 1) Do all defending units (including those who attack) get the benefits of
> defensive terrain? My understanding of the rules is that they do.
The attackers *never* get the benefits of terrain. Even in the example of the
enemy being next to a fort, and you moving into it, becoming adjacent and
thus attacking. Defending units do not get the benefits of defensive terrain
if there is a superhero in the attacking stack, unless the defending stack
has (at least one !) superhero as well.
> 2) My opponent kept some lunar magicians within the glowline in order that
> their spirits could attack outside the glowline at full strength. I thought
> that the rules didn't support this. The rules say a unit within the glowline
> with a cyclic factor is at full strength and spirits are described as
> individual units in the rules. A second argument is that the spirit is not a
> ranged attack and probably not the spirit of the magician, but a bound or
> summoned entity (tied to the red moon).
Our house rules were that as the spirits were attacking outside the glowline,
they are at the mercy of the phase of the moon; however, the magicians
themselves are at full (7) since they are within the glowline.
> 3) Can a magician unit who has had its spirit destroyed engage in defensive
> spirit magic (my interpretation was yes).
Yes. If they can attack they can defend. Of course, there are other units
that can defend but not attack.
> 4) How would other people order exotic magic in the exotic magic phase? In
> particular, could someone use the assassins to scout a stack (and discover
> whether any powerful units are in it) and then attack that stack with the
> Crater Makers or Stormwalkers special attack (destroying all the contents of
> that stack). I refrained from doing this as I thought it was a little unfair on
> my less experienced opponent (and because the rules don't refer to it).
Again, house rules. We made the rule that you must specify which exotics
you will use in the term before actually doing any of them (to let the priests
warm up :-), but that the order and *targets* were up to you. So, that would
allow the person to say they will use assassin and crater maker, check out a
stack with the assassins, and *then* decide which stack(s) get annihilated.
Something *very* important to remember for both sides is that the crater makers
can't be used on death and dying moons. This can make for mucho strategy
decisions on the part of both sides!
> I feel obliged to get a second opinion on these rules as most of the decisions
> went in my favour and we are about to embark on the marathon game.
We have pages of rules additions and some modifications after years of playing
DP (I just wish they *were* on one or two pages). Have fun with the
marathon game - it's great fun too. Try the three player at some time, with
the right people it can end up very political and, surprisingly, even.
Robert
---------------------
From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham Entropy requires no maintenance)
Subject: Re: Death Song
Message-ID: <01H44GC8W0OI003SM7@UG.EDS.COM>
Date: 14 Oct 93 18:16:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2014
drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu (David Cheng) spoke of
>DEATH SONG
>3 points, non-resuable
[snip, snip snip]
- at the end of the _battle_, the invoker irrecoverably dies
[snip snip snip]
>Imagine the effect upon the morale of the troops: advancing
>toward a legion of Humakti, they begin to hear all the
>commanding officers sing of the glories awaiting them in
>Humakt's Hall in Hell...
I can see it now. The side hearing the opposing Humakti making
the ultimate suicide squad raid retreat in good order, ceding
*that* battle.
Next day, they have fewer opponents when they start *another*
battle.
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Help a fellow Gray Sage! and Free INT 6 announcement
Message-ID:
Date: 15 Oct 93 11:28:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2015
I am looking for the source of a text telling the story of Malkion and
his children.
The story was similar to Heimdall's visit among humans and giving each
a place in the world, so did Mlkion with his for sons (for the names
check the Brithini caste names in G:CotHW).
I seem to remember that the mother of Malkion's sons was mentioned, and
that she was the goddess of the land (Brithos).
(I'm quite sure because I was puzzled that the denizens of the Kingdom
of Logic coexisted with such an entity.)
Unrelated things that puzzled me:
The Feathered Horse Queens:
A contradiction in myths. The Solar religion tell us that Hippoi,
ancestress of all horses, was (in her for as Hippogriff) a daughter of
King Griffin. This makes all horses beasts of the sky, not of earth.
The Feathered Horse Queens in turn are said to be incarnations of the
Earth mother in KoS. Sorana Tor, Earth Priestes of Kero Fin, who became
the queen of Arim the Pauper, seems to be the representative of her
time, and from her might stem the Feathered Horse Queens which became
dominant 120 years later - at least they took the role of the Earth
representative for the Great Marriage, after in Tarsh the cult of Maran
Gor the devouring mother had superseded that of Ernalda the gentle
mother, and sacrificial kingdom was introduced by the Illaro-dynasty.
Yelmalio, Elmal and Sun Domers (again):
Troll Pak (the most detailed description of the history of the world, I
wish we could get a similar work for the other major cultures,
including maps) tells us of the sun warriors aiding the local humans of
Dragon Pass in the 600-odd tax rebellion which crushed the troll
dominance installed by Arkat. Never mind which solar warrior Godling
was their deity, but the solar mercenaries became well-regarded among
both Theyalans and Hsunchen (take the hero Balazar as one example).
According to Praxian Sun Dome sources, the mercenaries which aided
Pavis and the EWF came from _a_ Dragon Pass Sun Dome Temple.
In the records about the Invincible Golden Horde it is explicitely
stated that the "Yelmalians" were part of it, see Balazar's (the
hero's) history. Virtually all of them were eaten.
I deduct that after this the Sun Dome Temple in Dagon Pass didn't exist
any more.
Pavis existed, though, and on Yelmalio Hill the Praxian Sun Domers and
the Aldryami from the Garden had a meeting place. Maybe it was here
that the Elf Solar War Deity became that of the humans, too (and
Monrogh's "God Learner Quest" described in KoS was nothing but an
adaption of Praxian Sun Dome praxis to Elmal cultists).
Opinions?
Oh, and I'm back at work on the project of expanding the Dragon Pass
boardgame to adjacent regions. I have finished my editorial work on
Free INT six, and it ought to be available from the Essen games fair on
(21st to 24th of October). The German RQ-society will have its own
booth and try to convert the masses, if you happen to be aound, come
and visit us (not me personally, I'm afraid, but other members).
Free INT 6 has (in German language, as usual) two scenarios set in
Sartar, several magic-related articles for RQ, some reviews on RQ, CoC
and ecspecially Elric!, an discussion about the role of sorcery in
RQ/Glorantha, and a reflection about fantasy Genres in RQ in general
and in Glorantha specifical. All this on 40 pages, price DM 4.80 plus
shipment. Available through me if requested per email, requested by
snail-mail via
Deutsche RuneQuest-Gesellschaft
c/o Ingo Tschinke
Scheevemoorer Landstrasse 33
D-28325 Bremen
Germany.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: GMing vs GLing
Message-ID: <9310151201.AA22036@condor>
Date: 15 Oct 93 12:01:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2016
I rashly said:
[Colin picks up his shovel and prepares to dig a big hole for himself...]
"IMHO RQ GMs are *meant* to be God Learners. It seems reasonable to me
for GMs to seek a coherent theory to rationalise the nature of magic etc in
their campaigns. It really helps to have a framework to base ideas on, and
I think that the rules should provide one. Obviously the characters shouldn't> know how the framework operates (or even that it exists) but I think the GM
is entitled to know."
Clay Luther replied:
>Well, I have to disagree, rather strongly even. As a Glorantha GM, I make every
>attempt to NOT think like a God Learner, or to notify myself in strong terms
>when I do (or need to). I practice a sort of self-induced confusion (perhaps
>GMing Trance) before entering a Glorantha game specifically so that my
>scientific/God Learner instincts are submerged beneath my Myth Bearer
>personality.
>GMs are not God Learners.
>Munchkins, Anal Retentives, and Power Gamers are God Learners.
Ouch.
Sorry, perhaps I shouldn't have used such an emotive term as "God Learner".
After all, it is a game concept and can only really be applied to characters,
not players (or do you think that this distinction does not apply?).
My point is just this: a GM has to cover many viewpoints about the way
that the world works. The three main explanations are personified by
Shamans, Priests & Sorcerers but it's likely that there are many points in
between and on either side of these main views. If you strictly categorise
magic into these three types then, fine. But if you want to have some idea
of what other "in-between" branches of magic might be like you have to have
an insight into how the whole business meshes together IMHO. If a *character*
grasped the concept of this global view, and exploited it, then I guess he
would be a God Learner. It's possible that some NPCs might be like this. But
even if there are *no* God Learning characters as such, I think the GM still
needs the global view in order to smoothly explain the nuances between
different viewpoints.
As a crude example, I'll create some "in-between" views (apologies for the
unimaginitive naming conventions) like so:
Divine Magic <-> Divine-Sorcery <-> Sorcerous-Divinity <-> Sorcery
Now, it's fair enough to say that pure Divine Magicians (Priests) and
pure Sorcerers don't need to understand how each others' magic works,
therefore we don't have to rationalise them for the PCs. But I think that
Priests could relate to Divine-Sorcery (eg Lunar "sorcerers"?), and that pure
Sorcerers would have an understanding of Sorcerous-Divinity (eg Arkat worship?).
Similarly I think the difference between Divine-Sorcery & Sorcerous-Divinity
would be comprehensible to respective parties. So, although the GM doesn't
have to rationalise Divine Magic & Sorcery directly, he *does* have to be
able to explain the nuances of the "in-between" magics from a character's
point of view. Therefore he needs to have a global view which (maybe) no
individual character would have.
This is a rather simplistic example I've presented. I imagine that there are
magics beyond sorcery (tending toward heretical technology) and also beyond
Spirit Magic (heading who knows where? One-ness beyond Glorantha perhaps?) and
also in many other different directions (Dragon Magic, Jelmre Magic etc.).
Obviously Spirit Cults lie somewhere between pure Shamanism and Divine Magic.
Hopefully you see why I think its helpful for the GM to have an overall view
of how Magic/Spirits/Gods work. Even if it's just to answer basic questions
like "What's the difference between a Big Spirit and a God".
NB. What I do NOT want to encourage are shaman/priest/sorcerer triple-combo
characters or other silliness (which would be utterly, utterly gross).
[Colin sets down his shovel, wipes his brow, and prays to Glorantha that he
has succesfully dug himself out of this damned hole...:-)]
___
CW.
---------------------
From: mstrong@cix.compulink.co.uk (Mike Strong)
Subject: Re: 1-H Weapons
Message-ID:
Date: 15 Oct 93 12:54:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2017
In-Reply-To: <9310150615.AA12932@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
Colin Watson comments:
>concerned about how crap 1-H swords are []. The only advantage I can
>see...It makes me wonder how swords ever became popular
Well, one handed weapons do let you use shields effectively - and
shields can be jolly useful...
Mike
---------------------
From: eosgg@raesp-farn.mod.uk (Geoff Gunner)
Subject: RQ4
Message-ID: <9310151433.AA13869@raesp-farn.mod.uk>
Date: 15 Oct 93 14:33:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2018
Lots of mention about RQ4, rules and so on, and perhaps even a sniff of a
mailing list, perchance ?
More Info, please ! How can one get hold of anything RQ-4ish ?
And anyone have an overall impression of what it will be like ? What it fixes
and what it makes worse ?
Geoff.
---------------------
From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Resurrection
Message-ID: <9310151330.AA25229@condor>
Date: 15 Oct 93 13:30:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2019
Mike Strong:
>CW>...it should be in the domain of Death gods (I don't see resurrection
>CW>as healing, I see it as power over Death,[])...
>
>Trouble is that this 'inversion' argument leads to the possibility of
>Chalana Arroy having, say, Sever Spirit - which does not seem right at
>all to me.
True, CA shouldn't get Sever Spirit either. :-)
I see Resurrection & Sever Spirit as two sides of the same coin.
And that coin has a Death Rune stamped all over it.
Embarassingly, I can't recount CA's runes off hand, but I don't remember
Death being one of them. Now, if the Lightbringers' quest had given her
runic association with Death then sure, she could give Resurrect...
But like Graeme Lindsell said, Priests of real Death gods (like Humakt), who
should be the only ones with access to Resurrect IMO, wouldn't cast it on
anyone. It's a classic catch-22.
Seriously, I wouldn't expect existing campaigns to ditch Resurrect. But once
you start using it, players tend to become *reliant* upon it. I've seen this
happen in AD&D (one of the reasons I don't play it much any more). In the RQIII
campaign that I play in, there so little evidence of Resurrection that one
of the players didn't even realise it existed as a spell in the Rules!
___
CW.
---------------------
From: timbee@timbee.rnd.symix.com (Tim Beecher)
Subject: God Learners
Message-ID: <9310151525.AA22594@timbee.rnd.symix.com.symix>
Date: 15 Oct 93 15:25:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2020
God Learners - Attitude and Motivation
I see the GLs as a group of people as a amoral research scientist type similar
to the animal experimentation types . The most important thing is new
knowledge irregardless of its effect on others . The interesting personality
aspect is that the GLs once successful with a discovery they don't seem to
ever repeat it . All their famous "discoveries" are always unique . The group
instead of applying their efforts to science instead apply their efforts to the
laws of Glorantha .
The deity experiment is a great example . GLs get interested in how deities
and worship work and experiment with it . The results give the knowledge
desired and the disaster that comes gets a big "So What" from the GLs .
For a typical GL stunt start with an unexplained process . In this case
the GL wonders how The Red Goddess was resurrected . He looks through his books
and says "Need a dead God" . He then reads about Bresmoli . He forms his
theories and tests them by using Bresmoli as a subject . The fact that almost
every result of this will probably be bad is unimportant . After his experiment
is finished and Bresmoli, False Bresmoli, Bresmoli-Arkat, or whatever occurs
he moves on to his next "experiment" . The GL sees the angry villagers approach
with torches lit and weapons ready and thinks "Well I could always see if one
could alter the days of the week in Pamatela" and moves on .
The GL motivation is that of Dr. Frankenstein . It isn't important that your
experiment have beneficial results just be the first to do it .
Tim Beecher (timbee@symix.com)
Bloodletter methodically slew every DOS user on the system ,
shutting out the screams of their system administrator. He
told himself "I am doing them all a favor" " :-)