From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 18 Oct 1993, part 3 Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM Precedence: junk The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying. Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM. Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld) --------------------- From: C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (Newton Hughes) Subject: lunar art Message-ID: <9310161951.AA14542@Sun.COM> Date: 16 Oct 93 19:49:04 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2027 In a previous posting here I was critical of the Dorastor cover, but I was too lazy to give intelligent reasons. I love soft background mater- ial for Glorantha, and especially attempts to show what the cultures' own art looks like. The illustrations from Sun County, recognizable as black-figure vase painting, are a good example. In the case of the Dorastor cover, it just doesn't look like anything. It doesn't quote any artistic tradition I've ever seen before. The really bizarre thing about it is its combination of naturalistic per- spective/denial of the picture plane with incompetent draughtsmanship. I've never seen that kind of perspective in any ancient or medieval work. Even when it is attempted, as in ancient wall painting (at Her- culaneaum?) it's haphazard; there's no hint of a convergence to a single point on the horizon. The Arkat illustration is much better, in that although the figures are classically proportioned the design as a whole is flat and two- dimensional. Both that and the symbolic attitude of the artist (Arkat as human, not troll, stressing essential nature over outward form) make the piece much more believable to me. One question: the Dorastor book has handouts made to resemble offic- ial Lunar documents, as did the Pavis box, showing printed type. Are we supposed to conclude that the Lunars have printing presses? Set type, stained glass windows . . . these guys aren't even vaguely Roman. What are they? Through ranting now, Newton --------------------- From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly) Subject: Greg's revisionism Message-ID: <9310162031.AA23703@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu> Date: 16 Oct 93 20:31:21 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2028 Many people have mentioned the revisionist history of the origins of Yelmalio. I will point out another example (there are hundreds, I'm sure.) In the Genertela Book, set in 1621, Moirades is listed as King of Tarsh. In King of Sartar, pages 119 & 127, Moirades is said to die in 1610 and to be succeeded by his son Pharandros. This sort of thing is irksome if one is trying to write a scenario set in Tarsh in the 1610's, for example. What do people think? Should we take RQ material as canonical for future submissions? Is Glorantha splitting into two worlds, Greg's rapidly shifting one and the more permanent RQ Glorantha? Anyone have any speculation as to why Greg changed his mind on Moirades' death date? It seems gratuitous. The Elmal/Yelmalio changes make some sense, but this playing around with death dates of mortals does not seem 'forced' by mythic considerations. BTW, this is not a simple change that can be smoothed over by saying 'one of the scribes who wrote the Composite History of Dragon Pass got the date wrong'; rather, the story of Moirades and Pharandros takes several pages and is intimately interwoven with much of the history. Thus it is a real change. - Paul Reilly --------------------- From: R1VOLZ@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU Subject: RQ Daily Submission Message-ID: <01H46SVG23R69D89PW@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU> Date: 16 Oct 93 13:52:31 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2029 Hello, this is my first post to this digest. I want to say that it's great to finally have a forum for RuneQuest discussions. A few comments: Chalana Arroy and large numbers of healers: IMHO, Chalana Arroy should be a popular goddess in non-Lunar-dominated countries. Yet, there should still be few initiates or priests. Why? Because in the conflict-driven world of Glorantha, there should be few who have the courage to follow a totally pacifistic philosophy. Even in relatively civilized areas, people live in fear, wondering what the night may bring. It is hard to imagine, coming from a peaceful society like ours, the kind of mental stamina that would be required to totally renounce the right of arms, even to the right of self-defense (except, of course, for Befuddles and Sleeps). I would imagine the restrictive requirements would keep devotees of Chalana Arroy at a relatively low population. Chalana Arroy and Resurrection: Resurrection as a power of Death gods? The Death gods are concerned with killing mortals and little else. I *could* see it as a power of Underworld gods, but even so, it's a tenuous connection. The life-giving and life-preserving aspects of the Fertility Rune that Chalana Arroy is concerned with give her a good reason for possessing this power. After all, Resurrection is arguably the final word in Cure spells... Humakt and swords: There seems to be some confusion as to the focus of Humakt. It is my understanding (based on the second-edition Cults of Prax) that Humakt is the God of War and Death. Swords are special to him for several reasons (they are shaped like the Death rune, they are the only weapons whose *only* purpose is to kill things, etc.) but he is not the Sword God. If he were the Sword God (that is to say, he is concerned with only the weapon aspects of the Death rune), then I would say you have to get rid of his Turn Undead power, as well as his changing his Sever Spirit spell. As it is, both of these powers represent Humakts powers over Death. Humakt and Berserk: One thing that people seem to be missing, IMHO, is that Humakt is not the god of soldiers. Both Yelmalio and (to a lesser extent) Irripi Ontor are soldier-gods, concerned with the rank-and-file members of the military. Humakt is a god for warriors, especially those who have lost causes. In view of this, his Berserk spell seems perfectly appropriate. Roland M. Volz --------------------- From: DScott@snail.demon.co.uk (David Scott) Subject: soc.religion.shamanism Message-ID: <9310171259.aa25006@post.demon.co.uk> Date: 17 Oct 93 13:00:07 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2030 Fellow Digesters, Those of you out there with access to USENET may like to know that a new Group has started called; soc.religion.shamanism It has really people discussing the real side of Shamanism & Spirits. I found it quite interesting and useful. David Scott Sandwiches on the edge of time DScott@Snail.demon.co.uk 158.152.16.30 --------------------- From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland) Subject: Re: soc.religion.shamanism Message-ID: <9310180338.AA07575@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM> Date: 18 Oct 93 05:38:30 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2031 >From: DScott@snail.demon.co.uk (David Scott) We had an idea of posting the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) to the Digest... I'd like to know if there's interest. Please tell me if you'd like to see it or not. Henk -- Henk | Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun. | My first law of computing: "NEVER make assumptions" --------------------- From: gal502@cscgpo.anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell) Subject: Weapons and Dorastor Message-ID: <9310180355.AA03206@cscgpo.anu.edu.au> Date: 18 Oct 93 13:56:11 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2032 Graeme Lindsell here: Robert McArthur writes: [a lunar gives some storm bulls a lesson concerning poleaxes] >One friend quickly ran through the door to get to the lunar. kchunk! Pole >axe time! Parallel to the floor the axe swung and the knockback was I've become a bit worried about the great advantages RQ seems to give the 2 handed weapons. Would anyone out there who has done some SCA (or other) fighting care to comment? The only advantages with using 2 1 handed weapons are the ability to parry on the same SR you attack and the coverage shields gives against missile fire. Are there any others? Rewriting Sever Spirit: Here's a suggestion: Sever Spirit (Touch, Temporal, Non Stackable) This spell forms a link between the caster's spirit and his/her weapon, allowing the weapon to be used to attack another's soul as well as their body. When the weapon does damage to an opponent (ie at least 1 HP through armour) match the casters current MP vs the opponents MP and consult this table: Roll Result Critical Victim loses 3d6 MP Special Victim loses 2d6 MP Ordinary Victim loses 1d6 MP Fail No effect. Fumble Caster loses 1d6 MP If a character has no MP after this roll then he/she dies immediately, as the weapon severs the spirit from the body. Yes, the caster could die by using this spell against an opponent with too many MP's. Just my $0.02. Colin Watson writes: >I think I prefer systems where speed is determined more by skill than by >natural ability & weapon length. It may not be entirely realistic, but it Well I think some input from the weapon is very important, but I like skill as the judge of speed too. >BTW, is anyone else concerned about how crap 1-H swords are in RQ? You can Yep. I think the problem may be best resolved by adjusting AP. Even though bronze is weaker than iron, I think the sword should be a tougher weapon to bring into battle (This is the big advantage of swords in Pendragon). Ken Rolston writes: >Re: Gross Encounters and Mild Campaign in Dorastor Thanks for clearing that up: I read that section on improvising a mega campaign, but didn't realize it was so important. A note on the Talastar Papers: We are told that Renekot the Stone is the son of Hakon the Swimmer, King of the Bilini. A few questions about this: i) Is he a bastard or a child of a previous marriage? He's too old to be a child of Hakon's current marriage (they met in 1605). ii) Why is the son of a king in such a dangerous backwater as the Risklands? (The first question may answer this one) iii) What happens to Renekot, and Fort Hazard, when Hakon dies? 1622 isn't it? (Sorry, I don't have Dorastor with me right now). Graeme Lindsell. --------------------- From: C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (Newton Hughes) Subject: retraction: lunar art Message-ID: <9310180405.AA11738@Sun.COM> Date: 18 Oct 93 03:53:54 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2033 Immediately after posting my opinion on ancient art and perspective I went home and read a book called _Plato and Greek Painting_, which has an excellent portrayal of the state of the art of art in Plato's time, and leads me to renounce most of what I ignorantly held forth on the subject of perspective. I also doubt the good sense of my questioning the artist's competency. I'm more inclined to fault the art director for not providing speci- fications of what artistic tradition the Dorastor cover illustration was to emulate. --Newton --------------------- From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au Subject: I FOUGHT, WE WON Message-ID: <01H49GIFRQDE8YABIO@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> Date: 19 Oct 93 01:16:41 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2034 This has virtually nothing to do with RQ, except to explain why I have not posted anything much for the past few months, and have also been tardy getting issue #11 of TALES (The Pamaltela Special) finished on schedule (and if my university lecturer is reading this, why you ain't gonna get that essay this week!). As some of you will know, I have been one of the key players in a campaign to s economic rationalist state government To save money, the government wants to close hundreds of schools and flog off the land for its site value. Yesterday, the list of school closures came out - over 150 in all. Added to the 55 they premptorily closed at the end of last year and you've got over 10% of the schools in the state shut in less than a year! However, WE WON!!!! After staring death in the face, we actually got Jeff Kennett and his looney-right bully boys to change their mind. I'm still reeling from the shock! The experience of other schools showed us that using educational arguments didn't hold much sway, nor would our school's 114 year history (that's pretty old in this part of the world) so we appealed to these renascent Thatcherites in the one area they'd listen to: money. We actually were able to convince them that even though they would get a good price for our land, the transitional cost to move our kids to the nearby s even then our kids would be in porto-classrooms in the car park. We also demonstrated that our running costs were significantly less than the average per student. When they had these facts spelled out, they could then pretend that the decision was based on our school's curriculum excellence, etc. Three months of public meetings, delegations to see the regional manager and the Minister of Education, rallying the parents and local businesses, getting the local MP on side, and so on has paid off at last! Back to celebrations! MOB