Bell Digest v931018p3

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 18 Oct 1993, part 3
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Precedence: junk

The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.

Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
they will automatically be included in a next issue.  Try to change the
Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily...  on replying.

Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest.  If you 
want to submit articles to the Digest only,  contact the editor at
RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM.

Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:

RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)

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From: C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (Newton Hughes)
Subject: lunar art
Message-ID: <9310161951.AA14542@Sun.COM>
Date: 16 Oct 93 19:49:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2027

In a previous posting here I was critical of the Dorastor cover, but I
was too lazy to give intelligent reasons.  I love soft background mater-
ial for Glorantha, and especially attempts to show what the cultures'
own art looks like.  The illustrations from Sun County, recognizable as
black-figure vase painting, are a good example.

In the case of the Dorastor cover, it just doesn't look like anything.
It doesn't quote any artistic tradition I've ever seen before.  The
really bizarre thing about it is its combination of naturalistic per-
spective/denial of the picture plane with incompetent draughtsmanship.
I've never seen that kind of perspective in any ancient or medieval
work.  Even when it is attempted, as in ancient wall painting (at Her-
culaneaum?) it's haphazard; there's no hint of a convergence to a
single point on the horizon.

The Arkat illustration is much better, in that although the figures
are classically proportioned the design as a whole is flat and two-
dimensional.  Both that and the symbolic attitude of the artist
(Arkat as human, not troll, stressing essential nature over outward
form) make the piece much more believable to me.

One question:  the Dorastor book has handouts made to resemble offic-
ial Lunar documents, as did the Pavis box, showing printed type.
Are we supposed to conclude that the Lunars have printing presses?
Set type, stained glass windows . . . these guys aren't even vaguely
Roman.  What are they?

Through ranting now,
Newton

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From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Greg's revisionism
Message-ID: <9310162031.AA23703@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 16 Oct 93 20:31:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2028


  Many people have mentioned the revisionist history of the origins of
Yelmalio.  I will point out another example (there are hundreds, I'm sure.)
In the Genertela Book, set in 1621, Moirades is listed as King of Tarsh.
In King of Sartar, pages 119 & 127,  Moirades is said to die in 1610 and to
be succeeded by his son Pharandros.

  This sort of thing is irksome if one is trying to write a scenario set
in Tarsh in the 1610's, for example.

  What do people think?  Should we take RQ material as canonical for future
submissions?  Is Glorantha splitting into two worlds, Greg's rapidly shifting
one and the more permanent RQ Glorantha?

  Anyone have any speculation as to why Greg changed his mind on Moirades'
death date?  It seems gratuitous.  The Elmal/Yelmalio changes make some
sense, but this playing around with death dates of mortals does not seem
'forced' by mythic considerations.

  BTW, this is not a simple change that can be smoothed over by saying 'one
of the scribes who wrote the Composite History of Dragon Pass got the date
wrong'; rather, the story of Moirades and Pharandros takes several pages
and is intimately interwoven with much of the history.  Thus it is a real
change.

  - Paul Reilly

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From: R1VOLZ@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU
Subject: RQ Daily Submission
Message-ID: <01H46SVG23R69D89PW@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Date: 16 Oct 93 13:52:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2029


	Hello, this is my first post to this digest.  I want to say that it's 
great to finally have a forum for RuneQuest discussions.
	A few comments:
Chalana Arroy and large numbers of healers:
	IMHO, Chalana Arroy should be a popular goddess in non-Lunar-dominated 
countries.  Yet, there should still be few initiates or priests.  Why?  Because 
in the conflict-driven world of Glorantha, there should be few who have the 
courage to follow a totally pacifistic philosophy.  Even in relatively 
civilized areas, people live in fear, wondering what the night may bring.  It 
is hard to imagine, coming from a peaceful society like ours, the kind of 
mental stamina that would be required to totally renounce the right of arms, 
even to the right of self-defense (except, of course, for Befuddles and 
Sleeps).  I would imagine the restrictive requirements would keep devotees of 
Chalana Arroy at a relatively low population.

Chalana Arroy and Resurrection:
	Resurrection as a power of Death gods?  The Death gods are concerned 
with killing mortals and little else.  I *could* see it as a power of 
Underworld gods, but even so, it's a tenuous connection.  The life-giving and 
life-preserving aspects of the Fertility Rune that Chalana Arroy is concerned 
with give her a good reason for possessing this power.  After all, Resurrection 
is arguably the final word in Cure spells...

Humakt and swords:
	There seems to be some confusion as to the focus of Humakt.  It is my 
understanding (based on the second-edition Cults of Prax) that Humakt is the 
God of War and Death.  Swords are special to him for several reasons (they are 
shaped like the Death rune, they are the only weapons whose *only* purpose is 
to kill things, etc.) but he is not the Sword God.  If he were the Sword God 
(that is to say, he is concerned with only the weapon aspects of the Death 
rune), then I would say you have to get rid of his Turn Undead power, as well 
as his changing his Sever Spirit spell.  As it is, both of these powers 
represent Humakts powers over Death.

Humakt and Berserk:
	One thing that people seem to be missing, IMHO, is that Humakt is not 
the god of soldiers.  Both Yelmalio and (to a lesser extent) Irripi Ontor are 
soldier-gods, concerned with the rank-and-file members of the military.  Humakt 
is a god for warriors, especially those who have lost causes.  In view of this, 
his Berserk spell seems perfectly appropriate.

						Roland M. Volz

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From: DScott@snail.demon.co.uk (David Scott)
Subject: soc.religion.shamanism
Message-ID: <9310171259.aa25006@post.demon.co.uk>
Date: 17 Oct 93 13:00:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2030

Fellow Digesters,

Those of you out there with access to USENET may like to know that a new Group 
has started called;

soc.religion.shamanism

It has really people discussing the real side of Shamanism & Spirits. I found 
it quite interesting and useful.

David Scott

Sandwiches on the edge of time
DScott@Snail.demon.co.uk 158.152.16.30


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From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: soc.religion.shamanism
Message-ID: <9310180338.AA07575@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 18 Oct 93 05:38:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2031

>From: DScott@snail.demon.co.uk (David Scott)

We had an idea of posting the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
to the Digest...

I'd like to know if there's interest.

Please tell me if you'd like to see it or not.  

Henk
-- 
Henk	|	Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
	|	My first law of computing: "NEVER make assumptions"

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From: gal502@cscgpo.anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell)
Subject: Weapons and Dorastor
Message-ID: <9310180355.AA03206@cscgpo.anu.edu.au>
Date: 18 Oct 93 13:56:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2032

Graeme Lindsell here:

Robert McArthur writes:
[a lunar gives some storm bulls a lesson concerning poleaxes]
>One friend quickly ran through the door to get to the lunar.  kchunk! Pole
>axe time!  Parallel to the floor the axe swung and the knockback was

 I've become a bit worried about the great advantages RQ seems to
give the 2 handed weapons. Would anyone out there who has done some
SCA (or other) fighting care to comment? The only advantages with
using 2 1 handed weapons are the ability to parry on the same SR
you attack and the coverage shields gives against missile fire.
Are there any others?

 Rewriting Sever Spirit:

 Here's a suggestion:

 Sever Spirit (Touch, Temporal, Non Stackable)

 This spell forms a link between the caster's spirit and his/her 
weapon, allowing the weapon to be used to attack another's soul
as well as their body.

 When the weapon does damage to an opponent (ie at least 1 HP 
through armour) match the casters current MP vs the opponents
MP and consult this table:

Roll       Result     
Critical   Victim loses 3d6 MP 
Special    Victim loses 2d6 MP
Ordinary   Victim loses 1d6 MP
Fail       No effect.
Fumble     Caster loses 1d6 MP

 If a character has no MP after this roll then he/she dies
immediately, as the weapon severs the spirit from the body.
Yes, the caster could die by using this spell against an
opponent with too many MP's.

 Just my $0.02.


Colin Watson writes:
>I think I prefer systems where speed is determined more by skill than by
>natural ability & weapon length. It may not be entirely realistic, but it

 Well I think some input from the weapon is very important, but I like
skill as the judge of speed too.

>BTW, is anyone else concerned about how crap 1-H swords are in RQ? You can

 Yep. I think the problem may be best resolved by adjusting AP. Even though
bronze is weaker than iron, I think the sword should be a tougher weapon
to bring into battle (This is the big advantage of swords in Pendragon).

 Ken Rolston writes:

>Re: Gross Encounters and Mild Campaign in Dorastor
 
 Thanks for clearing that up: I read that section on improvising a mega
campaign, but didn't realize it was so important.

 A note on the Talastar Papers: We are told that Renekot the Stone is the son
of Hakon the Swimmer, King of the Bilini. A few questions about this:
 
i) Is he a bastard or a child of a previous marriage? He's too old to 
be a child of Hakon's current marriage (they met in 1605).

ii) Why is the son of a king in such a dangerous backwater as the Risklands?
(The first question may answer this one)

iii) What happens to Renekot, and Fort Hazard, when Hakon dies? 1622 isn't it?

 (Sorry, I don't have Dorastor with me right now).

 Graeme Lindsell.


---------------------

From: C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (Newton Hughes)
Subject: retraction: lunar art
Message-ID: <9310180405.AA11738@Sun.COM>
Date: 18 Oct 93 03:53:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2033

Immediately after posting my opinion on ancient art and perspective
I went home and read a book called _Plato and Greek Painting_, which
has an excellent portrayal of the state of the art of art in Plato's
time, and leads me to renounce most of what I ignorantly held forth
on the subject of perspective.

I also doubt the good sense of my questioning the artist's competency.
I'm more inclined to fault the art director for not providing speci-
fications of what artistic tradition the Dorastor cover illustration
was to emulate.

--Newton


---------------------

From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: I FOUGHT, WE WON
Message-ID: <01H49GIFRQDE8YABIO@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 19 Oct 93 01:16:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2034

This has virtually nothing to do with RQ, except to explain why I have
not posted anything much for the past few months, and have also
been tardy getting issue #11 of TALES (The Pamaltela Special) finished
on schedule (and if my university lecturer is reading this, why you 
ain't gonna get that essay this week!).  

As some of you will know, I have been one of the key players in a campaign
to s
economic rationalist state government

To save money, the government wants to close hundreds of schools and flog off
the land for its site value.

Yesterday, the list of school closures came out - over 150 in all.  Added to
the 55 they premptorily closed at the end of last year and you've got over
10% of the schools in the state shut in less than a year!

However, WE WON!!!!

After staring death in the face, we actually got Jeff Kennett and his
looney-right bully boys to change their mind.  I'm still reeling from the 
shock!

The experience of other schools showed us that using educational arguments
didn't hold much sway, nor would our school's 114 year history (that's pretty 
old in this part of the world) so we appealed to these renascent Thatcherites
in the one area they'd listen to: money.

We actually were able to convince them that even though they would get a
good price for our land, the transitional cost to move our kids to
the nearby s
even then our kids would be in porto-classrooms in the car park.  We also
demonstrated that our running costs were significantly less than the average
per student.  When they had these facts spelled out, they could then pretend
that the decision was based on our school's curriculum excellence, etc.

Three months of public meetings, delegations to see the regional manager and
the Minister of Education, rallying the parents and local businesses,
getting the local MP on side, and so on has paid off at last!

Back to celebrations!

MOB