From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 28 Oct 1993, part 4
Precedence: junk
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From: staats@MIT.EDU (Richard C. Staats)
Subject: Resurrection
Message-ID: <9310252031.AB04506@MIT.EDU>
Date: 25 Oct 93 11:30:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2111
Greetings!
Just a couple of random thoughts about issues in the RQ Daily
lately. On resurrection . . . I got the feeling after reading a couple
of replies to my posting about resurrection that several readers had
gotten the impression that I do not allow resurrection in my campaign.
I *do* have resurrection available in my campaign; it is just *costly*
to get ahold of in terms of both finances and subsequent
responsibilities to the Chalana Arroy cult. Even from a strictly gaming
standpoint, resurrection is a good thing. Sometimes players can have
incredible strings of bad luck, and they lose a PC through no fault of
their own. In these cases, resurrection is a good, viable option ---
just make sure the PC "pays" an appropriate price for the resurrection.
Reference "the power to destroy is the power to create" . . . no, not
really. For example, a martial artist might know a great deal about the
physiology of the body in order to be able to more effectively disable
an opponent, but on the other hand, I would not want a random black belt
in karate doing open heart surgery on someone, because "he knows a lot
about the human body." In the same way, knowing about Death tells one
little about Life. About Sandy Petersen's comment on the fraction of
Humakti in the population . . . it is quite conceivable that there could
be a large fraction of Humakt worshippers. Universal military service
is something we see quite a bit even in our own technological world. In
a land where there is frequent armed aggression, it is logical that the
populous would turn to sources of protection and training. Serving some
time with a Humakt company and then returning to till the soil seems
like a good way to provide for the "common defense." Korea seems like a
good example of a country that works like that in practice. The young
men all spend some time in the military, but then they go back and work
as laborers in the communal farms or other occupations.
Just my $.02.
In service,
Rich
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From: cpearce@nemesis.acs.unt.edu (Chris Pearce)
Subject: Chalana Arroy and Chaos
Message-ID: <9310252059.AA02130@nemesis.acs.unt.edu>
Date: 25 Oct 93 10:59:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2112
Colin Watson writes:
BTW, something I've been wondering: is it possible to remove the taint of
Chaos from a creature (without killing it)? I can imagine the Stormbull line
on this, but was wondering what Chalana Arroy thinks: she seems to vaunt the
idea that "all life is precious, but Chaos doesn't count". Why don't CAs
protect chaotics and try to cleanse them? Is this feasible?
Naiya replies: (Guamata's Vision Spoilers)
Colin, son of Wat, you do not understand. To Chalana Arroy, *all* life
is precious, all intelligent life even more so. But you raise a issue that
greatly troubles me... I have confronted the problems you describe
regularly and I cannot be certain I have dealt with the properly.
It is evident that creatures of Chaos can refute their natures. Why, the
Wild Healer of the Rockwoods is a broo who turned from Chaos and joined
the community of those who serve the Lady. And the Cleansed One was a broo
who removed his Chaos taint through his piety.
However, so many of the creatures of Chaos I have seen--broo and ogres--
seem bent on inflicting suffering and destruction. Chalana Arroy frowns
on destructive Chaos, for it reminds her that forces of Chaos slew her
beloved son, Arroin. But while she does not extend her protection to those
Chaos creatures who destroy, she does not necessarily wish their
destruction. Rather, she truly wishes that they would turn from their
Chaotic ways.
Chalana Arroy can not directly cleanse a being of Chaos--that seems clear.
I once thought She could--a young girl who had been impregnated by broo--
was sent to Horngate for healing. I did not go, for I could ill afford the
two day journey--Zola Fel had chosen me to help cleanse the river--but I had
heard that the Healers at Horngate had treated the girl as if she had
been wounded by Chaos.
But my recent experience at Horngate seems to contravene what I heard. I
recently led an exodus from Black Rock Village to Horngate. Many women of
Black Rock had been impregnated by a Chaotic creature. None of the High
Healers' techniques could purge the Chaos, and we were faced with a
difficult decision: allow the women to carry the children to term or
have the Sable shamans abort the children. This was a divisive issue.
I would have had the children brought to term. Who is to say that the ogre
children, brought up according to the precepts of the White Lady,
would not choose lives of peace and harmony? This view was in the minority,
however.
The other view was complicated by a realization of outside factors. The first
was that the recuperation of the villagers proceeds quite slowly, and that
some of the women are, well, too addled to be good mothers. Another concern
is that the Sables would become angry and that their Storm Bulls could not be
restrained. As my closest friend is himself a Storm Bull, I can understand
this point of view--Bloodletter is sometimes unrestrainable.
I have rambled long without perhaps saying too much of anything. But I can
say that that creatures of Chaos can be cleansed of their taint, though not
directly by the Lady. And I can also say that while Chalana Arroy has
not great love for Chaos, especially destructive Chaos, she is merciful
and will not turn away any penitent, peaceful soul. Perhaps one day
when I am a priestess, I will go among--but carefully!--the broo and ogres
and spread the word of harmony...
--
Chris Pearce -- cpearce@nemesis.acs.unt.edu
How do you say delicious? How do you say delovely?
How do you say delectable, define? How do you say - deGORgeous?
How do you say dewith-it? How do you say Delite?
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From: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller)
Subject: Re: Rune Lords (from RQ-playtest list)
Message-ID: <01H4L1TZ3NC29I593X@wharton.upenn.edu>
Date: 26 Oct 93 17:25:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2117
From: WHARTN::MILLERL "Loren J. Miller" 26-OCT-1993 09:39:53.08
To: IN%"rq-playtest@marketing.wharton.upenn.edu"
CC: MILLERL
Subj: RE: Rune Lords
David Dunham (via RadioMail)
> It was probably me who wrote it. I have yet to look up the references, but
> I have a hard time accepting that the requirements to become a Rune Lord
> have much to do with the requirements for running a clan. (The "gentle"
> Vastyr mentioned as the Varmandi leader in PB:G probably isn't a rune
> lord...)
Of course the rune lord requirements have a lot to do with the chief
position. Remember that the chief is a *war* chief, so the Orlanthi
skills (weapons, oratory, and survival skills) have a lot to do with
the chief's success. The day to day business of individual families is
decided by the family head (usually the seniormost male) while
interfamily disputes are the purview of the clan council. Only if a
dispute results in bloodshed or murder is the chief at all likely to
take action, and probably not even then.
> Besides, rune lords of Humakt (for example) aren't really acceptable clan
> leaders (whether or not they've severed kinship ties).
Right, but what about a rune lord of Gustbran the Smith? Humakt isn't
the only cult that could have rune lords as living embodiments of the
god. We already know that Waha priests and/or lords are the natural
chiefs of their tribes, and that you must have royal blood to join
Yelm Imperator. It's a small leap from that to assuming that the rune
lord's natural function is that of a sacred, true king.
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
"Enough sound bites. Let's get to work." -- Ross Perot sound bite
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From: s.phillips@gla.ac.uk
Subject: Varmandisaga
Message-ID: <27_Oct_93_10:58:53_A106BB@UK.AC.GLA.VME>
Date: 27 Oct 93 09:58:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2118
Hi from Sam.
Hmm.. The daily does seem a little slow.
Have we hit exam season or something?
(The continuing Varmandisaga)
* Sorry for asking a few obvious questions yesterday (eg Lunar Tax).
I went home and re-read Kos again. It's funny, every time a read
it - more becomes clear. There was loads I couldn't remeber seeing
before. I guess you can only take so much in each time.
* So now my Varmandi Clan has a fort at the end of the valley and a
path running through it. I haven't decided what is in the fort yet
but I doubt it is the Lunars. They are taxed heavily (how much
'heavily' is I still to be decided.
* I am still unsure about Orlanthi worship. The availablity of an
Orlanthi priest for such things as tribal initiation and High Holy
days seems to be a problem. Although not directly touched on in Kos
I got the feeling that priests would be hard to find. Orlanthi
temples have been closed down in all cities apart from Whitewall.
And if the Lunars can close them down I'm sure they would close down
all of the smaller temples they could find. Where would the priests
go? If I was the Lunars I wouldn't let them go free - they would just
set up another temple. Escaping wouldn't be easy either - without
temples where would you teleport to? I could see rouge priests
setting up secret one-off temples and Orlanthi sneaking off on mass
to worship, hoping the Lunars don't find out until it's too late.
* What is Larnste's table apart from a large flat topped mountain?
What are the cinder pits?
What is in tarndisi's grove?
Anyone know where around the Dragon's Eye Tink is?
* More about 4033: Re-reading KoS this all becomes clear as well. Gosh!
Poor old Minaryth - for it was he who wrote all those kind letters.
* Ducks: Would all Sartar tribes have taken part in the slaughter?
The Colymar are said to have been the least co-operating of all the
Sartarian tribes. Please someone - say they didn't do it!..
Cheers, Sam. x
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From: awr0@aber.ac.uk (Adam Reynolds, 3rd Year and worried....)
Subject: Greetings People
Message-ID: <9310271133.AA19137@uk.ac.aber.fronta>
Date: 27 Oct 93 11:33:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2119
Peeps may have noticed that I put in an offer for a disk containing all the RQ
material I had placed together. It did not mention shipping it world wide
The price I mentioned was 2 quid for UK sending, add 50p for Europe and
1 pound for rest of the world. If anybody would like to contact me via phone
the number is 0633 876288 (Evenings and not this week as I'm not there).
The disk will be 3.5 HD PC compatible only.
Adam
Signing off for the next 2 weeks....
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From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 25 Oct 1993, part 2
Message-ID: <9310271746.AA10145@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 27 Oct 93 17:46:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2120
Paul Reilly here, responding to Sandy Petersen.
I have to agree with Sandy on several points. In our campaign we base
some of the religious aspects on ancient Earth practices (lacking contact
with the house campaign) but get the same results - for example, anyone
who wishes to cross a river (in a theistic land) sacrifices to the god
of the river. Similarly practically everyone participates in fertility
festivals, etc. This sort of temporary lip service to other gods is not
considered 'bad' as it would be by monotheists. Rather, it is a sort
of useful insurance policy. Examples from the ancient world abound and
could be provided upon request. WQe find that it works well in our
campaigns.
Also, I agree about Seven Mothers being a borderlands cult. This is
explicit in the old description. Deezola having reusable Resurrect must
be from the house campaign; there is little information available on
Deezola in published works - we were forced to make up our own version.
There is supposed to be a complex Lunar pantheon with many gods that we
have never heard of in the published stuff - this was hinted at in Cults
of Prax but never followed up on. Plus of course there are many deities
such as Hwarin Dalthippa who are oft-mentioned yet little described. Perhaps
Sandy could enlighten us on some of these? It would be useful just to know
_whether_ certain deities had been worked out yet or could still be developed
in the future.
More when I have more time,
\ Paul R.
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From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Blood of Arroin
Message-ID: <931027202533_100270.337_BHB46-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 27 Oct 93 20:25:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2121
___________________
Colin Watson asked:
> BTW, something I've been wondering: is it possible to remove the
> taint of Chaos from a creature (without killing it)? I can imagine
> the Stormbull line on this, but was wondering what Chalana Arroy
> thinks: she seems to vaunt the idea that "all life is precious, but
> Chaos doesn't count". Why don't CAs protect chaotics and try to
> cleanse them? Is this feasible?
I seem to recall the Blood of Arroin can be used to purify away a Chaos
taint. At least, the folk at the late "Pavic Tales" were very keen on the
idea. I don't know offhand if there is a reputable Gloranthan source for
this: maybe "Plunder" or somewhere similar. Certainly you wouldn't be able
to purge the mighty Crimson Bat with a drop of the stuff -- that's losing
all sense of perspective.
Also, the Cleansed One was a well-intentioned broo who apparently had his
taint washed away in the Zola Fel (cf. that cult write-up for details).
This may be part of the purifying/baptismal function of Gloranthan water in
myth -- compare with the infamous Baths of Nelat (an inhumane ritual
whereby the Chief of an Orlanthi clan had to take a soak in a hot tub every
winter; since discontinued as "far too dangerous" [cf. KoS p.168]). In
which case, there'll be other bodies of water able to do the same (on a
near-miraculous basis -- Zola Fel did it *once* and it's a part of the cult
write-up).
But Chaos is essentially Anti-Life, without redeeming qualities. Chalana
Arroy healers might move heaven and earth to purify someone or something
that had inadvertently become Chaos-tainted, but I don't see them going out
of their way to cleanse unnatural monstrosities. Purging a Chaos taint
should be even more uncommon than Resurrection, IMHO -- and that's rarer
than the rules would lead you to believe. 'Cos Resurrection is "natural"
compared with Chaos-nobbling.
Cheers,
====
Nick
====
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From: drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu (David Cheng)
Subject: RuneQuest-Con Update: Oct 27
Message-ID:
Date: 28 Oct 93 03:48:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2122
RuneQuest-Con Bulletin #3
=========================
MEMBERSHIP
Things are chugging along nicely still. We're over 100 registrants now
with people still contacting us for info. Looks good!
HOME OF THE BOLD
... is pretty much full. We have started the process of assigning
characters (don't call us, we'll call you). If you haven't sent in
your registration yet, but would like to play, PLEASE LIST HOTB AS YOUR
FIRST CHOICE FOR THE SAT SLOTS ANYWAY. We will labour to make new
characters, and who knows how far down into the wait-list we'll have
to go.
VOLUNTEER NEGLECT
I feel bad about neglecting all the people who have volunteered to
help out, running games or otherwise. You have not been forgotten.
I've got an archive of all volunteer offers; it's just a matter of
me organizing everyone as to what they can do. Please don't think
you've been forgotten. I will indeed be contacting you about how
you can help.
CONQUEST GAMES
based in Somerville NJ, is our new dealer, replacing the less-than-
honest Game Exchange (run by Ron Meischker) of Egg Harbor NJ.
Dean Norman, the proprietor, comes recommended.
HOTEL RESERVATIONS
Have you made them yet? If not, please do so ASAP. I need a good
estimate on the bookings, for when I bargain with the hotel.
Please feel free to contact me w with any questions, commes, requests
for registration info, etc.
More soon,
* David Cheng
drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu
(212) 472-7752 [until midnite, New York time]
---------------------
From: graeme.lindsell@anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell)
Subject: Lots o'comments
Message-ID: <9310280355.AA24524@cscgpo.anu.edu.au>
Date: 28 Oct 93 18:54:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2123
Nick points out the obvious to me:
>Of course shamans have access to resurrection! Pretty useless, else.
>^^ ^^^^^^
Well, yes. I was just wondering whether the Chaosium had any
house rules on how they do it.
>Problem is (as always with RQ shamans) that most of the really interesting
>and useful things real-world shamans can do have been left out of the rules
>as "HeroQuests". (Which makes me wonder why shamans were left in at all,
>but there you go...). I suspect the "featureless grey" spirit plane is
Shamans are pretty "featureless grey" themselves, come to think of
it. The only difference between one shaman and another _as shamans_
is the size of their fetch. Otherwise all their shamanic powers are
identical. It's only the cults they belong to that really differentiate
them. Anyone got any good, unique shamanic abilities that they want
to share, and an idea of how a shaman could get them?
>In my head, I don't believe in resurrections.
Agreed!
>Nobody is going to get much running & shouting joy out of her
>[Molanni's] worship.
I think you've just insulted every Molanni worshipper alive.
Both of them!
A question: does the worship of a god give power to that
god's enemies? Would (say) Pochango gain most of his
strength from everyone's fear of mutating chaos, and their
prayers to save people from it? Malia gains some worship
out of fear, but this is a slightly different question.
>Or, to put it another way: I find it attractive that almost all Sartarites
>will be initiates of Orlanth and/or Ernalda, but it seems hard to penalise
>players for this by requiring Sartar Storm Bulls to sacrifice 2 POW in
>character generation for two separate initiations. I'm feeling around for
I think that Chaosium seems to treat POW sacrifice a lot more cheaply
than any players I've seen like to, re one use rune magic for initiates,
gods eating your soul for DI's etc. To me, POW is your soul, gained
at great effort and not to be wasted.
Nick: when you return from your exam heroquest, could you tell us
more about your MoonDragon rules? i'd like to compare them with David
Dunham's Pendragon Pass conversion.
>Removing Chaos Taints.
I seem to remember some discussion about this a few months ago,
that concluded that only heroquests could succeed, and then with
the aid of only a limited number of gods. The god's I recall
are Humakt (he can use his power to cut ties to slice the chaos
- and quite a lot of the rest of you - from out of your soul)
and Storm Bull ("Oh, great Storm Bull, please pound the chaos out
of me!" is a phrase I fondly recall)
Obviously Zola Fel can do it re The Cleansed One subcult
>Sandy writes: This is all lay member stuff.
I don't think this really helps the issue. Loren's point is
that Earthly polytheists would pray to the various gods
in their pantheon expecting real supernatural help. We're
told that laymembers gain no magical support from the gods
at all - they don't have that much connection. (Of course
IMO initiates don't get much support either but that's
another argument). People worshiped the pantheon, and got
the help of the correct god in the appropriate situation,
whereas in RQ3 an initiates link to the other gods in the
pantheon is much weaker, usually one rune spell that they
might cast once in their life.
on Jeorg's Aeolian Heresy
>Jeorg thinks of the Aeolian Heresy as teaching the Trinity of the
>Invisible God: Creator outside of Creation, the Guardian Spirit
>permeating Creation (aka Glorantha, Ginna Jar or Arachne Solara), and
>Orlanth Lightbringer, the Invisible God born into the world. I find
>this attractive.
I once thought of a similar, more Hindu Stygian cult, which worshipped
The Invisible God Creator, Orlanth the Preserver and Humakt the
Destroyer. The triangular law rune is very suggestive of a Trinity:
are we ever told that the Malkionists have a trinity?
> Malkionist Saints
I've always wondered: why didn't you just use the existing rules
for rune magic when constructing the Saint's? They seem to be
worshipped much like rune gods, and the costs are similar.
Primitive Sorcery: Opinions Wanted!
(minor spoilers for Shadows on the Borderlands)
Sounds like a contradiction in terms, doesn't it? I started
wondering about primitive sorcery when I read SotBl and saw
the mojos that are used to curse people. These seem to be an
example of simple sorcery: magic that comes from the caster
rather than spirits or gods. It seems to me that Enchant is a
form of sorcery that is available to almost every culture.
The RQ3 rules say that sorcery only appears in the civilized
cultures, but I'd like to think that even the other cultures
have smatterings of the same knowledge, and that it is only
in civilized cultures that sorcery becomes organized enough
to supplant the other kinds of magic. A few weeks ago people
were saying that there are shamans even in civilized cultures,
should there be sorcerers (albeit poorly trained ones) in
nomadic cultures.
Does anyone know much about magic in tribal societies, and
whether they distinguish between spirit magic and personal
magic?
Graeme Lindsell a.k.a Graeme.Lindsell@anu.edu.au
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