From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 02 Nov 1993, part 1
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 30 Oct 1993, part 1
Message-ID:
Date: 1 Nov 93 06:24:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2162
Graeme Willoughby on Extension in X-RQ-ID: 2142
> I was looking in the Dorastor book the other day and among the gross
>monsters I noticed that one several (Platewalker in particular) have got large
>value extension spells - 18 points worth as I recall. I wondered just how long
>this would last and came up with the following table which I present for your
>delectation and amusement.
>This means that extension is one of the best spells in the game! You don't
>need that gross an NPC Rune Preist to have 20 points of Rune Magic given that
>they have to have 10 points to start off with. I'd imagine that every cult has
>at least one spell that it would be useful for the preist to have permanently
>up. That is, the preist casts the spell with a 15 pt extension at the beginning
>of each year and spends the next fortnight recovering the extension spells -
>unfortunately they can't recover the one that they're extending though - how
>sad! Then they have that spell up for the whole of the year. Obviously this only
Don't know what the rules say, but I'd rule that Extension can't be
regained either until expired or dispelled. A while ago in the sorcery
discussion somebody stated or suggested that all long-duration spells
lasted only until next holy season, when all but the strongest magic
expired. One reason more to visit the temple during this time...
>Anyway I think you get my point - having a large value extension is *so* useful
>and *so* cheap,for such a powerful effect, that every Priest should be
>accumulating it, if they have access to it, and most cults do.
I'd say that to pay one point of POW to reusably double spell duration
doesn't seem too expensive. One of the results of the sorcery debate
went along this line, too.
>Comments please!
I have no problems with low-powered spells kept up for a long time. The
thing begins to stink if too powerful spells are kept up too long. This
applies to sorcery as well as to extended divine or spirit magic.
Earlier this year Greg Fried suggested to limit castings of divine
magic through a resistance roll. Something like POW vs. sum over all
points in the spell (i.e. 1+2+3+4...) to succeed, with reduced effect
by the number the roll missed, the rest of points either not cast or
burnt off without effect.
BTW, what effect does extension have on spirit magic under RQ3-rules,
and how about extending sorcery (as some "Stygian" sorcerers might be
tempted to do)?
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 2145
>Hello all. Sandy again.
>Greg Fried sez, re: cities
>> Refuge: something like Sog City in small, Brithini ruling a normal
>> populace.
That was me, replying to Greg. Genertela Book, page 52, says explicitly
".. is a Brithini outpost which continues its tenuous existence using
the old caste systems of Brithos."
>Refuge was created to be a direct copy of Sanctuary, so we could use
>the Thieves' World module in Glorantha. I thought of the rulers of
>Refuge as Malkioni, not Brithini, but your information might be more
>recent than mine own.
There was an article in a French magazine showing a map very similar to
that of sanctuary, and some beautiful air views of the city and the
southern reaches of the Storm Mountains. What disturbed me most in that
description was the tetrahedron cathedral to the Invisible God -
elsewhere the Brithini are described as atheists, merely acknowledging,
but not worshiping the Creator. The text says that the Refuge Brithini
are considered heretics by other Brithini (of Talar Hold, in God
Forgot, close to Casino Town?). It has a nice Trickster legend as
founding story, which explains its epithet "City of Thieves".
Too all Sactuary devotees out there: I could imagine the Brithini much
in the role of the Beysibs, from Volume 4 on - a very caste oriented
people foreign to the native populace. The Rankans would be replaced by
the Lunars, and the Ilsigi would be the Heortlendings.
Of course, the arrival of the Beysibs might lie in the future, them
being Waertagi. Opinions?
[Re: Colin Watson]
>Loved your reasons for Lay Membership.
So did I, but when I asked for the benefits of Lay membership I meant
the spiritual and magic ones. Colin gave a very good one with "peace of
mind/heart", but I'm not quite satisfied with that. Religious
activities on Glorantha is a form of magic, and the participants
wouldn't do so if they wouldn't receive a very real magical benefit.
Lakes in Sartar:
The Dragon River (the River of Creek Stream River) in the Second Age
led through a stretch of lakes in the flats which are now occupied by
Upland marsh and the Donalf flats. Delecti corrupted the lower ones,
but the description in KoS on page 183 indicates that at least in the
Second Age the lakes stretched far further north, almost until Dwarf
Mine.
Nick Brooke aka Temertain in X-RQ-ID: 2148
>BTW, there must be something in that old Lhankor Mhy saying, "the pen is
>mightier than the sword(s)". After all, how many of them got away alive?
There's Death, Truth and Law in there:
| \ / | vs. ^ \ /
T | T /_\ |
Not oly the only truth, but also the only law the Humakti accept is
death
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham , via RadioMail)
Subject: DIs (& Divination)
Message-ID: <199311010750.AA09141@radiomail.net>
Date: 1 Nov 93 07:50:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2163
>From: graeme.lindsell@anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell)
> Aside on DI's: I'm becoming increasingly disturbed at the way gods
>devour their worshippers souls for divine intervention. Perhaps DI
>should take sacrificed rune magic instead: that is what the god has
>real control over IMO.
So a priest who asks for help is no longer a priest? While it may be a game
mechanic designed to limit frivolous DIs, it does abstract the "get me out
of this and I'll make great sacrifices at your altar" request.
On a related topic, I've found that the number one question asked in
Divination seems to be "What does the Big Nasty want to do." My standard
answer: gods can't read people's minds.
David Dunham * Software Designer * Pensee Corporation
Voice/Fax: 206-783-7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddunham@radiomail.net
---------------------
From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Hurray!
Message-ID: <9311010947.AA01328@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 1 Nov 93 11:47:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2164
Visited Amsterdam with a foreign guest. Had the opportunity
of dropping by at the American Book Center. They had two
copies of Dorastor. Got something to read this week.
They still have two copies of RQ3 Standard Edition...
And a lots of copies of River of Cradles.
---------------------
From: J.Ditton@vme.glasgow.ac.uk
Subject: Who am I?
Message-ID: <_1_Nov_93_11:35:07_A108D0@UK.AC.GLA.VME>
Date: 1 Nov 93 11:35:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2165
I'm having a lot of difficulty getting mail from people.
Assume whatever address is above is the correct one.
You SHOULD be able to put S.Phillips in place of J.Ditton above.
Thanks all.
Sam Phillips.
---------------------
From: J.Ditton@vme.glasgow.ac.uk
Subject: Varmandisaga..
Message-ID: <_1_Nov_93_12:08:07_A10940@UK.AC.GLA.VME>
Date: 1 Nov 93 12:08:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2166
Hello all. Sam Phillips here again..
* Well, the plans are going well. My clan are finding out who they are.
* Nick, thanks for all the kind words.
Apple lane: Apple lane is Colymar or at least Gringle Goodsell is. Did
Gringle not sit on the High Council around 1613. Perhaps it is Gringle's
importance that keeps Apple Lane from doom.
Tribal Initiation: Where's the priest?
* ISBN's. Oops, came from home without the list. Sorry folks.
* Sartar Map. Yes.. Yes.. YES!
* RQ-Adventures.. Anyone have a Snail Mail address for this. It *was*
posted i believe. Where do I send the cheque..
* Nick again. RE: Do you join Storm Bull at first initiation?
This is something that I have been worrying about. I think I mentioned
that one of my players, when rolling his character, wanted to join
Ernalda. (Blatant power playing if you ask me - I wouldn't let anyone
be initiates of Orlanth you see) I said *no*. He wasn't an initiate
of Orlanth so wasn't an *adult*. As a child he had no status with
anyone. Non-adults can't carry weapons - how would they join
Storm Bull? Only Adults can do adult things - buy fags, drink beer, go
with Ulerians, join the moonies, become a beserk...
Personally I see nothing wrong with two power sacrifices. For each one
you get cult skills, cult spells *and* faith, freinds & family. Power
sacrifice is just to represent devotion, a magical emotional tie. I
would assume a year or two between each initiation (when rolling
experienced characters) even if the young character had been eying
up a god for years. They would only want proven adult members of
society. I believe it was yourself who said they had no need for
missionaries. (or was it Sandy?). So a young Orlanthi would find
the right god eventually, no need to rush into anything.
* Adam. I would like a copy of your disk. Where do I send the cash?
* David Cheng. First, I don't believe I ever thanked you for sending me
the RQ-Con brochure. *Thank you*. I drooled over it. I can't wait until the
day. I will sit at home and astrally project (after a few beers I can do
anyhing $*)
Sartari? Grazers?.. The people round here call themselves Scottish. The
Historical types call them Scots. The English call them Scotch which is
what the Americans call a drink which we call 'Whisky' and the Irish
call 'Whiskey' and I call 'another of the same please, cheers!'.
* Ahah! ANyone notice the deliberate mistake? :X-) Notchet.. Roman type
square planned city.. oops! I meant *Furthest*. But you knew that
I meant what I meant.. didn't you?
Arggh! must go the manfraim is going down in 5mins..
Cheers all
Sam. x
Not Scotland or Scotchland.
---------------------
From: drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu (David Cheng)
Subject: Disclaimer
Message-ID:
Date: 1 Nov 93 15:11:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2167
I would like to state, clearly and publicly, for the record, that the term
"God Forgoti" was coined not by me, but by Charles Morehouse, the creator of
the _Masters of Luck and Death_ game. The utterance Nick refers to was made
at the Convulsion playtest of said game. I am deeply ashamed of said
utterance, and will not propogate it further.
I will now refer to the people of the city of God Forgot as
"Malkioni." Not as Brithini, as some are prone to do. While their
origins might originally be pure Brithini, certainly a culture such as
theirs would be so far from the strict Brithini mores that they could
not be commonly labeled. I see a culture driven by greed, where money
can buy anything. Wizard and Serf: "You know, I'm not supposed to
teach you this magic, but since my mistress has this taste for
Falagian Diamonds, I guess we can overlook the rules 'just this
once...'" The god of these people is not so invisible; they can hold
his shiny image in their palm. I also think that such decadance
exists only in the city proper. Most of the countryside of the Left
Arm Islands probably just lacks overall spiritual guidance.
I do indeed give my blessing on Nick's proposed "Esrolite"
interpretation. Once again, I am overwhelmed and envious of his
almost transcendental grasp of the magic and culture of Glorantha, and
of our own Earth.
John Medway: Doesn't Ral Partha make a line of Egyptian Ancients?
RQ-Con: 109 Memberships, and climbing. More after this week's two
midterms.
*David Cheng drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu / d.cheng@genie.geis.com
Ask me about RuneQuest-Con! (212) 472-7752 [before midnight]
---------------------
From: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller)
Subject: AOL Discussion: Prax and American West
Message-ID: <01H4SRATCVTE8Y5LA2@wharton.upenn.edu>
Date: 1 Nov 93 05:50:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2168
America On-line RuneQuest Chat
June 9, 1993
Logged by Loren Miller (Ekron)
Part 1: Praxians and American Indians
PRAXIAN ANALOGS WITH REAL WORLD PEOPLES
Ekron: All right, we know that some of the praxians are
based on native american tribes. Which ones are
which?
Koribouros: I never saw the Praxians as analogs of any
INDIVIDUAL tribe, but rather a cultural
"stereotype."
Gray: Anyway, on to Prax and Praxians.
Gray: The Beast Riders of Prax...
Ekron: Sioux?
P Michaels: Iupo!
Gray: One point you bring up is interesting actually -
some people see these as Indians (the model favored
by Peterson) others as Arabic desert nomads,
dressed in long robes...
Ekron: American indians, right? Not subcontinent?
Koribouros: Right
Koribouros: Hmm, Arab nomads... never thought about them that
way...
Gray: What we've seen so far makes them out to be more
like Sioux or Crow indians...
Ekron: Well, I always thought from the source material
that they were arabic style nomads, not native
americans
Gray: Certainly would give Pavis an interesting flavor.
Gray: Shades of Tangiers...
Koribouros: I always thought the old cover of the RQ Companion
portrayed them well.
Gray: That's very Sioux - a bison rider, at least.
Ekron: Assuming they are based on Sioux, would you be able
to use Black Elk Speaks as source?
Koribouros: Why not?
Ekron: Or other authentic sioux material
Gray: Probably a good start, at least for bison riders.
P Michaels: Better to use Oglala Religion by William Powers. It
describes in detail social organizations,tribal
structures, rituals, and lots else.
Gray: Another thing to look at would be the infuence of
the animals they ride on their culture...
Ekron: Are there camels in Vulture Country?
Koribouros: Sure, the alticamellus is pretty close.
Gray: I think camels are one of the extinct animal
tribes...
Koribouros: There are a lot of still-extant tribes out there
who ride very odd beasts, though.
Ekron: Maybe the bison riders are like oglala and
alticamelus riders are like bedouins?
Gray: That's not a bad idea, actually.
Ekron: What would rhino riders be like? Tuareg, perhaps?
Gray: Bison - oglaga, High Llama - bedouin
Gray: Taureg sounds good.
Gray: Impala might be Crow...
G Bailey: Didn't all the tribes learn their ways from Waha?
Wouldn't the teaching be the same?
Ekron: did they learn all culture from Waha? I don't think
so.
Gray: No, apparantly there are a number of differences...
Koribouros: Well, just becasue they learned the same teachings
doesn't mean they would have to implememnt them the
same way.
Gray: Waha organized them, once they were already extant.
Ekron: Are the personalities of beast riders like their
animals? Would camel riders spit?
Gray: I would think they would reflect them.
G Bailey: how about that other great riding tribe, the
Mongols?
Gray: That's Pent.
G Bailey: oops, that's right.
Gray: The Pentians seem very much like Mongols.
Ekron: I think the Mongols are like the pure horse
tribe... and pent
Gray: They even border on the Kralori empire...
Koribouros: I always envisioned the racial stock of the
Praxians to be similar to the Mongols, in
appearacne.
PRHarmaty: Greetings
Gray: Discussing what Pentians and Praxians might look
like... With Mongol and Beduin influences...
PRHarmaty: I tend to think of Praxians as native Americans
Ekron: We were thinking maybe prax has analogs of all the
mounted nomads from earth...
P Michaels: What about the non-Waha oasis Praxians?
Ekron: Who would be the cossacks?
Gray: Sables?
PRHarmaty: Their relationship with animals is consistant with
Indians' respect for their prey animals
Gray: I like the idea of using a number of models,
myself.
Ekron: Foraging societies, like those in Prax, almost
always have great respect for prey animals. It
isn't unique to native americans
P Michaels: I also agree with the multi-model idea. The trick
is in uniting them into a uniquely Praxian whole.
G Bailey: do they curse like beduins? what would some curses
be?
Koribouros: Where would the obscure ones, like the Mantis
riders, fit in?
Ekron: No trolls on earth, sorry.
PRHarmaty: Mantis riders??? A joke, yes?
Gray: Mantis Rider of Prax - the new John Norman novel...
Koribouros: No, there's a few obscure references to them.
Gray: Do you mean Bolo Lizard perhaps?
Gray: I've never seen a Praxian Mantis reference.
Koribouros: It was only a brief mention, in one of the old
supplements.
PRHarmaty: I've heard about Sartarite 'sheep riding' but I
think that falls under sexual deviations.
Koribouros:
PRHarmaty: Thank you.
Gray: Another interesting detail - Praxian knot writing.
Koribouros: Knot-writing... an Andean reference.
Gray: This is a written language of sorts that seems to
specialize in directions, paths and a concept
called 'distance from chaos'
Koribouros: In ancient Andean cultures, they were used
primarily as bookeeping.
Gray: What I've seen of this makes it out to be more like
Australian aborigine paintings. Basically a
language they used before time, and still use now.
Ekron: You know most foragers in marginal areas, which
Prax certainly is, were driven there by population
pressures from outside. I wonder if the praxians
really lived there as long as they claim
Gray: Yes, apprantly.
Ekron: Why would anybody stay that long in a dead place?
What is so valuable to them that they don't all
emigrate?
MarkDragon: Isnt Prax the homeland?
PRHarmaty: Prax was not always marginal. The 'population' of
the better lans kept them in Prax.
Koribouros: Where would they emigrate to?
Ekron: Pent? Sartar? Kralorela? The Kingdom of Ignorance?
Gray: In the Tunneled Hills, among the statues of the
gods, there exists one of the devil herdsmen and
his herd of creatures.
Ekron: What's a devil herdsman or a devil herd?
Gray: OK, ancient Gloranthan myth... There were the tribe
of law and the tribe of chaos. The Brithini are the
descendants of the tribe of law, the Praxians the
tribe of chaos. Tell it to a Storm Bull and he'll
cut your head off .
Ekron: Is this a recent revelation or did GS tell it to
you?
Gray: No, unpublished stuff.
IrishSpy: Wouldn't they emigrate to Holy Country? (Except
for the Lunars hanging around)
Gray: Part of the reason they stay there is the Paps.
Koribouros: I think the Lunars hanging around would be the
problem :)
Gray: The Paps are their great sacred ground. That's why
they allowed the Lunars to remain on the plains of
Prax.
Koribouros: Besides, isn't the holy country a mostly farming
area? Not neccesarrily a good place for herds.
Ekron: I'm just acting as devil's advocate, but... The
sahara desert was apparently at one time the cradle
of humanity ruined by overcultivation. Do we stay
there?
Gray: I think comparing Prax and the Wastes to the Sahara
is a mistake.
G Bailey: I don't Prax is a desert, more like the American
plains of the 1800's.
Koribouros: ...by legend and example.
IrishSpy: Prax strikes me more as the American Southwest
P Michaels: Specifically, Prax is mostly chapparel,filled with
stands of woody shrub thickets 1 to 4 meters high.
Gray: Even the Sahara and Gobi have human inhabitants,
nevertheless. Right, I think the American SW is a
better model. Prax in particular is considered
paradise by the animal nomads.
Gray: They call Pent the land of false plenty, because it
is only good half the year around. However, the
Wastes look much more like the Gobi or Sahara...
And many of the tribes live there.
PRHarmaty: SW U.S. is too harsh.
PRHarmaty: The native Americans thought the great plains were
a desert untill they discovered the horse.
Koribouros: Of course, that implies that someday, someone will
find out just how fruitfull the plains of Prax
could be to farmers...
PRHarmaty: Agreed.
Gray: The area around the Paps is supposed to be
incredibly fertile...
Ekron: So if someone brought Genert back there might be a
land rush?
Gray: There are some trying to reassemble Genert. Not
doing too well, though...
Koribouros: You'd think the Issaries would have at least made
some progress by now.
Gray: The problem is that there is a lot of opposition.
P Michaels: From who?
Gray: The Wastes are the home of chaos as well...
P Michaels: Where is the growing ground?
Gray: In the Krajalki Bogs....
Ekron: Then maybe we should just use native american
models for praxians. Navajo, Zuni (for the
rituals), Oglala, Crow, Nez Perce, etc...
Gray: I think you might look at what tribes inhabit Prax
more than the Wastes and model those more after
American Indians, and the Waste dwellers more after
bedouins and Mongols. With some crossover...
PRHarmaty: Sweat lodges, sun dances, et al make great rituals
for Praxians. Cleansing body and soul.
Koribouros: The Yelmalians might complain about the sun
dances... :)
PRHarmaty: Who pays attention to the Sun Domers?
Koribouros: Hey! I resemble that remark!