From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 05 Nov 1993, part 4
Precedence: junk
---------------------
From: S.PHILLIPS@gla.ac.uk (Sam Phillips)
Subject: Sources from kids' books - bibliography
Message-ID: <9311042237.AA06609@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 5 Nov 93 00:37:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2205
Forwarded message:
>Error: no subject
>Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 13:29:55 GMT
>From: S.PHILLIPS@gla.ac.uk
>Sender: J.Ditton@vme.glasgow.ac.uk
>To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
>Message-Id: <_4_Nov_93_13:29:55_A10544@UK.AC.GLA.VME>
Hello from Sam
--------------
Here is the kiddies history booklist I promised. I
tend to go for detailed drawings rather than
photographs as the illustrators tend to breathe
life into the scenes/objects.
First, the VIKINGS. Here are my two favourites.
Both are historically accurate - I have found no mistakes in either:-
* "The Time Traveller Book of VIKING RAIDERS" by
Anne Civardi and James Graham-Campbell, Illustrated
by Stephen Cartwright. Usborne Publishing Ltd 1977.
ISBN 0 86020 085 X. Paperback, large format, 32p.
Part of series. Others include KNIGHTS & CASTLES,
ROME & ROMANS, PHARAOHS & PYRAMIDS (all inferior).
Southern Norway 9th century. Detailed cartoonish
pictures are colourful and characterisation is
excellent (similar in a way to Asterix without
dialogue). Two page spreads are: Earl Knut's Farm,
Inside the longhouse, Building a new warship, The
raiders get ready, Setting off, Raiding a
monastery, A big feast, Cousin Olaf dies, Bjorn
Sails to Iceland, Sven goes trading, Bjorn settles
in Iceland, A meeting of the thing, A winter
Festival. Also has The viking's World (a map), The
story of the Vikings (a summary of history), Index
and further reading. This is my personal favourite
and I consider it to be one of the best children's
books around. I found it invaluable for my Vikings
campaign. The pictures can be converted into game
info wholesale, as can the characters within -
Cousin Olaf is especially good. My battered copy
has had pride of place until very recently..
* "How would you survive as a VIKING?" by
Jacqueline Morley & David Salariya. Illustrated by
Mark Bergin. WATTS BOOKS 1993. ISBN 0 7496 1088 3.
Hardback, large format, 48p ?8.50.
This book is also one of a series. Others include
ANCIENT EGYPTIAN, AZTEC, ANCIENT ROMAN, (in) MIDDLE
AGES, AMERICAN PIONEER, NATIVE AMERICAN, (on) 18th
CENTURY SHIP. I haven't seen any of the others yet.
This book is crammed with detail. The pictues are
less cartoony and there is more text. No colourful
characters but instead many colourful anecdotes:
Little stories of 6 frames tell the lives of kings
("Kings are made for honour - not long life"),
slaves, clothes cleaning in cattle urine, Viking
values (the picture of two vikings throwing an old
lady off a cliff is especially good for a laff),
washing (with a full page drawing of a Viking on a
lavatory & a description of viking warriors blowing
there noses into a bowl then washing their hair
with it one by one - all good stuff!). I especially
like the little details - an ear scoop, metal
workers multi-purpose soapstone that produces
crosses and hammers - detailed drawings of clothes
showing how women's tunics were handy for
breastfeeding - A lawspeaker lying in his tiny tent
all day to consider a difficult problem etc. This
is probably a better resource.
Next Castles, hill forts, towns etc:-
* "The Castle Story" written and illustrated by
Sheila Sancha. Kestrel Books 1979, Penguin Books
1981. ISBN 0 14 00 5747 1. Paperback, Medium
format, 224p. May be out of print as I haven't seen
it recently. I bought my copy second hand.
This is another amazing book. As a gaming
resource I cannot recommend it higher. The diagrams
are incedible. Nearly every page contains a plan of
a castle. Every photograph has had original
features and historical people drawn onto them. It
also has a lot of text (ie it is mainly text).
Whether or not this is actually a kid's book is
another matter. The Glossary is good too. I have
not seen her other book "Knight after knight" which
is historical fiction (no doubt with lots of nice
piccies too) but I am looking out for it.
* "CITY. A Story of Roman Planning and
Construction" written and illustrated by David
Macaulay. HarperCollins 1974. ISBN 0 00 192151 7
(HB), 0 00 192157 6 (PB). Paperback, medium format
112p ?4.99.
"David MacaulayUs architectural picture books are
among the outstanding non-fiction books of recent
years" - the Guardian. "Nothing quite compares with
David Macaulay's blend of history and architecture"
- The Economist. This is another "what can I say"
book. It shows the design and construction of an
imaginary Roman city, "Verbonia", at the edge of
the empire in Persia. "The Romans knew that well
planned cities did more to maintain peace and
security than twice the number of military camps".
It has a city plan, plans of typical "insula",
forum, central market, town house, thermae,
amphitheatre, theatre, as well as full bird's eye
view and side-on pictures of them being built and
lived in. Terrific detail is payed to construction
methods. The pictures of the completed town as if
from an aircraft are reminiscent of the pictues of
Pavis. This is *my* Furthest - should I ever need
one. He as also done CASTLE, PYRAMID and CATHEDRAL.
I have seen CASTLE and it is splendid (as well as
being recommended by The Architect's Journal). I
would have bought it if I didn't allready have
Castle Story. (I will no doubt though).
Finally an honourable mention:-
* "THE CELTS" by Julia Drum and Harry Sutton.
Illustrated by Peter Kesteven. BBC Watch. Heritage
Books 1989. Softback, medium format, 32p, ?3.25.
This deserves a mention as it is the only picture
book on the Celts that I have found. The detail is
pretty sketchy as are the stories. There are one or
two nice pictures of Forts and Round-houses in this
though. The colurfull Illustrations are nice too.
It has the right "Sartar" feel (And is Cheap) but
is definetely a Kid's book with a "thing's to make"
page.
I have not mentioned the books about the Greeks as I
have yet to find a really good one. However greek
history tends to dpawn glorious adult cofee table books
like "Greek and Rome at War" which must be the definitive
Greek picture book..
Remeber: If you want to order a book from a bookshop all
you need is the ISBN number. (Can you tell I used to work
for one of Britain's biggest book orderers).
Anyway, hope all that is usefull.
---------------------------------------------------------
The continuing Varmandisaga..
* I have had loads of handy hints. Thank's all. To those of you
who said be "brave and just do it your way". Yup! That's what
I always intended to do *but* I just wanted to pick your
brains first. What would be the point of having this list
otherwise!.. I now have loads of good ideas and, I think,
a better understanding of Sartar because of it.
* I have heard a rumour that Beatties (the toy shop) bought
a load of gaming (esp RQ) packs and couldn't sell them. They
have since been selling them off cheap. 4 or 5 quid a pack!
Worth a look if you have one in your area. (Sorry all outside
the UK). I am off to get Trollpack for 4 pounds. Hooray!
* My stead now has Ducks. They fish my lake and raise brave young
Humakti. Bolik, as mentioned in WMFTM in now a slightly foppish
Humakti warrior with a large hat. He tends the small Humakti chapel
(one of only two stone buildings on the stead) which has stone tablets
bearing the names of all the brave rebel warriors who have given their
lives so far opposing the Lunar Invasion. His wife and sisters-in-law
are the fisherwomen. I have just given them a normal stead and made them
full members of the clan. Would they be apart in a seperate area? Could
they be members of the clan?
* Despite advice I am keeping my lake. It isn't that
big (2 by 3 miles) and anyway *I* like it. I still don't
see why Sartar doesn't have any. Scotland, Eire, Scandinavia,
the Alps etc. are *all* full of lakes. Looking at the map of
Dragon Pass in the RQII book there is a lake just beside Boldhome.
Where has it gone?
* I now have first adventure. Orlanth himself will demand a test from
my brave young Orlanthi before they can be Initiated. It will appear
as a vision to the Ernaldan priestess and will be in the form of a
minor hero-quest. Why? Because these young men and women are to be
Heros of the coming Hero-War so of course they will be set tests by
Orlanth or other similarly heroic happenings. Anyway, visions are great.
Here it is: (If any of my player's are reading this - *DON'T*!;-)
Orlanth demands a test which shows mastery of his runes before he can
allow you into his fold. To demonstrate mastery of the wind Thunderous
demands an eagle's feather and the snout of a boar. To show mastery of
mobility Adventurous demands a wild dog's tendon. The king of gods
demands the crown of a stag to demonstrate mastery of mastery. Orlanth
also demands presents for his kin. For Yinkin, a hunt. For Urox a
battle againsed chos. For Humakt a kill. For Ernalda you must return a
ring.
(I know it is a bit of a nasty mish-mash of mythos. But aren't these things
always..?)
I'll let you know what these all involved once they're played. The last one
(the ring) is obvious. The others will turn out to be more of a suprise.
* My Bard up the tree is now a terrible composer. A beautiful singer, but a
terrible composer. He always want's to try his compositions out though.
* One of my players want's to play a poet. He will document all battles
and other notable moments in the lives of the young heros. Orlanth Rex is
the god of poets is he not? Would that make my poet a noble? I have
said probably. No-one else would be able to write and/or have enough
spare time for such fey pursuits.
* (For anyone who has a clan map) Is Two-Ridge Milani?
* Oh yes. I have been leant a copy of "A Rough Guide to Boldhome". It is
absolutely brilliant. I wish it was bigger - but then even if it *was* I
would wish it was bigger still. Spensor Marksson. haa-haa! Lots of nice
wee things. I especially liked the Lunar text on getting there and
surviving once there. Can I still buy this?
Anyway, that's enough for now.
Cheers!
Sam. Not Scotland but Sartar. Jonstown Lankhor Mhy book ordering dept..
---------------------
From: henkl@glorantha (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: Lost today's Daily
Message-ID: <9311042243.AA11352@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 5 Nov 93 00:43:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2206
There was a problem with the scheduling of the Daily.
The current queue of pending messages should now be flushed
on Friday morning. This includes all messages since Wednesday.
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Gloranthan natural laws: geology and optics (again)
Message-ID:
Date: 5 Nov 93 06:04:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2207
One of my main fun activities with Glorantha is to try and explain
Gloranthan phenomenons with pseudo-scientific treatises.
One of the problems that occur are the geological "facts" delivered in the
Snake Pipe Hollow scenario. The different pieces of strata delivered there
would take several hundred million years on Earth, and more importantly
the area would have to have been overlayed by sea several times, and the
sea would have to have evaporated.
If I look at Gloranthan history I find it hard to insert this time inside
the legends. Of course the rising of Dame Earth out of the Sea may have
taken longer than the myths make us believe, and the process may have been
interrupted by flooding of parts of the area again, but the making
(sowing) of mountains is recounted as action of Larnste when he went over
the surface.
Then there is the problem of the rivers running in the wrong direction
before the destruction of the Spike. In which direction would the sediment
have been transported? Why would water have evaporated, when teh sea
always procured new water? Where would the minerals come from, if the sea
was still fresh water before the chaos intrusion? Minerals picked up on
the way upriver?
Oh and what exactly was it Heler did in this time? If rain fell down,
where did it go? In reality the rivers are fed by the excess rainfall. If
in God-time the Gloranthan rivers flowed uphill, a vast amount of water
would have collected in the land, with no reason whatever to evaporate -
unless Yelm was a LOT stronger those days, and evaporation accordingly
stronger. But then clouds would have hidden the fiery eye of Yelm, and
precipitation and evaporation would reach an equilibrium again.
This is the reason why I have difficulties with the sentence "The surface
geology of Glorantha is much like Earth's." on page 8 in the Glorantha
book of G:CotHW.
When regular science fails, the activities of deities step in. Which deity
would be responsible for sedimentation to occur the normal way even though
the conditions wouldn't allow that? Would that be an earth deity, a sea
deity, or a sky deity?
I think this is as much a can of worms as the problem of the line of sight
on Glorantha, which was discussed a while ago by several serious Gray
Sages and a certain victim of the Red Moon's lunacy named Columbus
Mercator. In my opinion we are called to straighten these problems in an
imaginative way, so that we enhance the magic of Glorantha. Purely mundane
explanations won't work for the world.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
Subject: Wishes
Message-ID: <9311050803.AA00719@hp0.zycor.lgc.com>
Date: 5 Nov 93 08:03:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2208
>> From: graeme.lindsell@anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell)
>> Date: 1 Nov 93 16:15:17 GMT
>> X-RQ-ID: 2160
>>
>> Chris Cooke writes:
>> >I was just given some disturbing news last night...
>> >RQ3 is no longer in print!
>> >IS THIS TRUE?
>>
>> I can't say but didn't someone post here a few months ago that
>> Avalon Hill's rights to RQ lapse if they let it go out of print?
>> Makes it seem unlikely. On the other hand, we can hope!
Why are we still wishing for this?
1. Stafford doesn't seem interested in Chaosium doing it again.
2. Avalon Hill and Ken have been doing very well, lately, if a bit slow.
On other subjects, re:
>> From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
>> Date: 28 Oct 93 22:47:24 GMT
>> X-RQ-ID: 2136
>> ...
>> Empire. You can derive some info on the personality of these cults
>> from the thumbnail descriptions in GoG and CoP. If I had my damn
>> stuff out of storage I could download some cult information on these
>> dudes on the net if there were interest. *sigh* If I had some ham I
>> could have some ham and eggs if I had some eggs.
"if there was interest." ?
^^
Hmmm, maybe we should send a party of Lhankor Mhy and Irripi Ontor types
to go start an archaeological dig at Sandy's "U-Store-It" shed?
Volunteers?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| john_medway@zycor.lgc.com | Landmark Graphics Corp | 512.292.2325 |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------