(Message inbox:73)
Return-Path: somewhere!appel@erzo.berkeley.edu
Delivery-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:49:34 -0800
Received: by soda.berkeley.edu (5.65/KAOS-1)
id AA02769; Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:49:31 -0800
Received: by erzo.berkeley.edu (5.67/LUCK-AND-DEATH-1.1)
id AA07302; Wed, 10 Nov 93 01:24:27 -0800
Resent-Message-Id: <9311100924.AA07302@erzo.berkeley.edu>
Received: by erzo.berkeley.edu (5.67/LUCK-AND-DEATH-1.1)
id AA07235; Wed, 10 Nov 93 01:12:51 -0800
Received: from Sun.COM by soda.berkeley.edu (5.65/KAOS-1)
id AA00544; Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:23:43 -0800
Received: from snail.Sun.COM (snail.Corp.Sun.COM) by Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1)
id AA22403; Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:21:31 PST
Received: from Holland.Sun.COM (isunnl) by snail.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1)
id AA24604; Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:21:19 PST
Received: from glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM by Holland.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1e)
id AA28607; Wed, 10 Nov 93 09:21:07 +0100
Received: by glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1)
id AA23951; Wed, 10 Nov 93 09:16:56 +0100
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 09:16:56 +0100
Message-Id: <9311100816.AA23951@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
From: RuneQuest-Request@glorantha.holland.sun.com (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@glorantha.holland.sun.com (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@glorantha.holland.sun.com (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 10 Nov 1993, part 4
Precedence: junk
Resent-To: appel@soda.berkeley.edu
Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 01:24:26 -0800
Resent-From: Shannon Appel
Status: O
---------------------
From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Blwrm Blwrm
Message-ID: <931109224707_100270.337_BHB46-3@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 9 Nov 93 22:47:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2259
_____________________
Old Man Varmand said:
> Cheers! esp NicNick. (hope you sober up without pain)
No trouble, thanks. Though I did *whack* my head into the youth hostel bed
at some point in the night, and came home from the Trinity College gamesoc
session having stereotypically lost my shirt while playing cards...
I think you should veer still further towards Pendragon than you're going
at the moment -- keeping all of the clunkier RQ mechanics while attempting
a partial conversion doesn't reap the full benefits of the changeover.
BTW, "NicNick"??? Is this a typo, or an evolution towards one of my many
Gloranthan alter egos? (RQC p.9, JC [1470])
____________
Tim Beecher:
Agree re: too-easy Illuminations, and think the new write-up in Dorchester:
Land of Doom adequately dispelled these. You have to really *think* about
them these days: you can't just shout "Riddles" at your melee opponent and
hope one of them takes effect...
___________
Joerg said:
> Esrolian Wall shields. Might even be the top armament of the Building
> Wall. We know from Genert's creation of the Copper Sands that Earth
> never was shy about sacrificing loyal troops to achive a tactical
> advantage. This really makes me wonder a) how many Esrolite infantry
> were interred in that wall, b) are their spirits worshipped as
> guardians of the wall, c) who performed this great ritual?
I love it! Provisional answers: (a) Lots!, (b) Yes!, (c) the Esrolite Earth
Priestesses, while "lending the troops magical support from behind". Though
I'd still have a major Gnomic component in the raising of this structure.
Maybe they only used up the infantry when necessary to plug a breach fast.
___________
Sandy said:
> And the (other) Malkioni claim likewise. The other Malkioni didn't
> appear until after the Dawn. Just about that time (A.D. 1), the
> prophet Hrestol had a vision of Malkion, who taught him the New Way.
> This appealed to a lot of former Brithini, and led to the great
> secession movement. The Brithini say that Hrestol got it wrong, and
> if he didn't get it wrong and really got word from Malkion, it
> doesn't matter, because Malkion must have got it wrong this second
> time round. All that matters is that the Brithini Way works. You
> change, you die. The other Malkioni sneer at this because it's
> obvious that the Brithini are stagnating, while they, their
> descendents, grow, live, love, and learn.
Did Malkion teach anything about Solace (continued existence after death,
anathema to Brithini) or any morality based on not Tapping (Brithini do it
all the time)? Did he believe in and preach the existence of the Invisible
God (the Brithini are called atheists)? These appear to be the key elements
of his message. Agreed, (almost) all modern sects of Malkionism derive
their teachings from Hrestol's revelation: but I find it hard to accept
that before Hrestol the whole population of the West were "pious" Brithini.
In Gloranthan terms, the Brithini live in a debased "Golden Age" of perfect
obedience to the law rewarded by unchanging existence and immortality. The
Malkioni were founded in an "Age of Doubt" / "Ice Age" / "Great Darkness"
when (per Cults Book p.10)
: The ancient Kingdom of Logic is beset by creeping ice walls which
: destroy cities and nations. Despair sends people to the Devil, so
: Malkion the prophet is born amid conflict and renews the truth of
: the Invisible God in the world. He protects his people and the
: sacred city of Malkonwal throughout the long night.
Now, I've been assuming that the Kingdom of Logic equals the non-theistic
Brithini, and that Malkion's revelation of a personal, loving deity (and
the consolation of Solace in Glory) is what heartens the more despairing
among the Brithini to resist the travails of the Ice Age. Having the
Brithini founded in the Golden Age by one Malkion, then having some of them
rescued in the Darkness by a second Malkion (whose message is rejected by
the more strictly orthodox Brithini, led by the first Malkion's children
Zzabur etc.), seemed to make sense of the weirdness that otherwise
develops.
In Greg's original Hrestol story, the "revelation" to Hrestol by the god
Malkion is far less far-reaching: he validates Hrestol's already-conceived
notion that combining the powers of all the castes will be permissible now
Time has started and the Old Way isn't necessarily the best any more. Since
Hrestol, in the story, has already made up his mind that this is so...
_____________
Geoff Gunner:
> re: Nick Brooke's comments on Celtic Bards getting the best grub --
> but what if you weren't any good? High expectations lead to bad
> punishments if you fail to come up with the goods! ('Guards - off
> with his tongue!')
I shall fall into a Bardic silence, saying nothing but "Blwrm, Blwrm," as
did the bards of Maelgwn Gwynedd when they contested with Taliesin... and I
can't offhand remember if we know what happened to them after that failure.
And, Geoff asks the *BIG* question:
> _How_ many hours should I devote to RQ a week?
I've found an answer . It may not suit everyone out there, but I have
found an answer...
> It's getting so that preparation time is nearly equalling playing time.
Wow! That's *really* stinting on the old preparation. You must be terribly
pushed for time these days...
Sarcasm aside, I agree with you about the utility of sourcepacks after the
Trollpak model. Problem with them is the same as with all the other forms
of God Learning: there's a risk that the sweeping blanket overview will
smother and stifle some of the smaller regions included within it. But
they're a good and useful thing, if they can be done as well as Trollpak.
---------------------
From: WALLMAN@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (Personal friend of Little Elvis)
Subject: Re: Illumination
Message-ID: <01H54FNC52Z6006C1D@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU>
Date: 9 Nov 93 14:25:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2261
>From: timbee@timbee.rnd.symix.com (Tim Beecher)
>Subject: Submission: The World according to Gark,Illumination
>Re:Riddling and Illumination
>If it were truly that simple illumination would be like the common cold . The
>approach to illumination should be one of stealth and cunning . For example ,
>a stranger asks Harold the Haggard for directions . Harold gives the directions
>as best he can . The stranger then inquires "I've heard tales of a mountain
>with a living heart , can you tell me if that is near here ?" . Harold responds
>and now has a chance of becoming illuminated . A sage comes across a mention of
>a monolith of basalt and becomes intrigued . After researching the answer , the
>sage joins the illuminated ranks .
>I suppose its a matter of taste but it seems to me that too often the
>illumination technique resembles the Ned Flanders character on the Simpsons
>Ned: Hi-dely Ho there neighbor , say you wouldn't happen to know what walks on
> four , then two , then three legs ?
>Illuminated Homer:[Answer], Doh!
Once in a late night duscussion, a friend and I also decided that asking
questions is too obvious. Players who have an inkling how illumination works
will not bother answering strange questions and will not become illuminated.
We thought arts and crafts would be good illuminating media:
- puzzling yet intriging tapestry design hanging from a Lunar official's wall
- oddly angled dimensions of the Lunar priest's garden
- bad performance art (i.e. performance art)
- haunting melodies of a popular government supported flutist
(or whatever Lunars play)
We also talked about making more mundane skills (e.g. boating, jumping,
lores, wrestling, listening, sneaking) as vehicles of illumination.
I think the general idea was that the Lunars have a new way of thinking
and that for some Lunars this thinking is promulgated through things
they do (i.e. their culture). This fits in well with outsiders' view
that Lunar culture is "pollution".
In the end I decided that since illumination is supposed to be rare
(despite being such a common device in published scenarios) that I would
just wing it. He thought that the illumination of a character or
group of characters would be a long and interesting campaign game.
-Ed Wallman@vax2.winona.msus.edu
---------------------
From: graeme.lindsell@anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell)
Subject: The Mostali are Naked Mole_Rats!
Message-ID: <9311100410.AA24783@cscgpo.anu.edu.au>
Date: 10 Nov 93 20:10:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2262
Nick Brooke writes:
>The guy who gave him the chop comes at the top of the list... the
>others are probably his allies, or relatives (Orlanth, uncle of the Devil:
>something they don't talk about much in Sartar).
Well, the link between Orlanth and Chaos is obvious to a Dara Happan
theologist. Orlanth killed Yelm, bringing murder, theft and rebellion
into the world; his followers, led by his nephew, learned from this
lesson and attacked Orlanth in turn.
Makes perfect sense. :-)
>I disagree completely about New
>Pelorian. This is a language of lies and insane blasphemies: *nothing*
>written in it is untainted by Lunar notions.
It is also the script of a very large empire of very successful
enemies to the north, with an equally large body of writing. I'd
think they'd have to learn New Pelorian; know thine enemy and all
that.
>After all, you can meet the (presumed) ancestors
>of the Harshax dynasty today in Sartar
Who are they? I think I must have missed this (or forgotten).
Does anyone know how big the Harshax "empire" is? The only
information I can see is that they started around Tarsh, from
the "What Dag Said" letter and the Mularik Fragment.
[Quoting Yours Truly]
>> I think [agrarian slavery] must be fairly widespread in the Lunar
>> Empire: look at how many slaves the Polas have.
>Yes, I'd go along with this, and recommend a look at late Roman Republican
>latifundiae (huge slave-farmed estates) for a possible model. A vast social
>problem in the making...
That's what I was thinking of, though I didn't rmemeber the name. As I
recall, the latifundiae were made possible by the vast numbers of slaves
made available by the conquests of the late Republic .
This could be a reason for the sudden onrush of the Lunar Empire:
the demand for slaves, land and income fueling an attack on Sartar,
the slaves being used to displace the small farmers of Peloria and
Carmania, the displaced farmers needing land and/or joining the
army, the armies being used to attack the Holy Country...
The posited future hisory of the Empire in Dragon Pass seems
a little strange. Can anyone recall a similar (Earthly) incident
where an empire successfully (and easily) conquers a region only
to be kicked out and possibly destroyed within 30 years? I
know the Romans got kicked out of Germany east of Rhine after Varus,
and the British had little fun in Afganistan. I can't think of
many other examples of expanding empires collapsing in pre-modern
times, though I'm sure there are people on this list who know
much more about this subject than I do.
Relating Sandy's description of Dwarf's senses:
>He had the sensory
>'pits' hidden behind the dwarf's beard (thus no problem with wearing too
>many clothes, etc.), with the hair of the beard itself perhaps acting as an
>extension of the sense organ
I don't really think the Mostali need these unusual senses. A lot of
hive animals get around underground with just touch and a good sense
of smell. I'd say the Mostali script is Braille, and they can identify
areas underground by raised markings on the wall and the smell of the
equipment there. The various castes would have their own smell as well.
The naked mole-rat view of Mostali. :-)
>While I liked the -im plural with Tolkien's linguistic creations, in
>Glorantha context this sounds strange to me.
Has anyone else noticed that the seas near Genertela end with an -i
suffix while those near Pameltela end with -o? Since I think the
-i is Tradetalk, is there a different Tradetalk in Pameltela? See the
ToTRM Sea Special.
To Tim Beecher: Yes, I'd like a subscription to the Garktower, thanks.
Please send it to:
His Excellency Sor-Eel the Short,
Governors Palace, Pavis, Prax.
What? No, that'll be in cash.
Paul Reilly writes:
> In the meantime let me say that I have a Runic Sorcery article in the
current
>issue of Free INT (thanks Joerg) and that if there is interest it
>could be posted here or on the Digest. I'd post it in English (although
There's some interest here!
Graeme.Lindsell@anu.edu.au - marvellous when your e-mail address becomes
a decent .sig
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Yelm, the Unfaithful Steward
Message-ID:
Date: 10 Nov 93 06:24:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2263
Since Nick asked me to correct that Dara Hapan outrage of his, I'm
forced to reveal a bit of my Aeolian project.
The following is part of my work on the Aeolian Church of Heortland as
full RQ3 cult write-up, from the section Mythos and History. All this
is my interpretation of the Heortlending view of the legends.
Glorantha was created when Creator formed Grower and Maker. From both
sprang the Spirit pervading the world, Glorantha.
Grower and Maker obeyed the Runes Creator had devised, and the out of
their actions formed the first of elements, Darkness, from which sprang
Water, inside which grew Earth, above which lay Sky, between which two
jumped Air, the last and most sophisticated of Elements.
As Creator had seen fit, each element held Stewardship of the world, until
the next took over. [Darkness, Water and Earth omitted.] Aether ruled
through his three sons Dayzatar, Yelm and Lodril. Of these last three Yelm
strove for supremacy, and took upon himself the title of the Emperor. When
from the union of Sky and Earth sprang Umath, the Primal Storm, Sky's time
of Stewardship had gone, and Air was to take over. Dayzatar withdrew even
further, and practical-minded Lodril turned to his work. But vain Yelm
refused to pass the stewardship to his brother. Thus strife entered the
world, and the harmony of the court was broken.
Umath too fathered Sons through whom he meant to rule, but Yelm denied
the Storm brothers their role in Stewardship. The brothers reacted each
after his temper. Kolat populated the air with his children, Storm Bull
wedded Eiritha and befriended her family, the Earth family, Humakt
strove for mastery in the powers.
Vadrus gathered the Children of Umaths Sons around him, unsatisfied
with the suppression through the Celestial Court, while Umath held back
the forces that threatened Creation, now that Creator's plan was
disturbed. The Vadrudi sought women of their own, and they took what
they found with force, because they hadn't got their inheritance
without it.
[Story of Aerlit and Warera and beginning of Ragnaglar's schemes deleted]
Meanwhile, however, through inspiration from the Creator, Umath had
fathered Orlanth to Kero Fin, Mountain Lady of the Nisting Ground of
Dragons. Through this union, Creation was to be restored, but only through
epic struggle.
Orlanth was Creator born to the world, and through him the Invisible God
perfected his plans.
Young Orlanth went to the appointed steward of the world, and found
that his uncle didn't occupy the steps before the throne, as befitted
his station, but had in his now legendary infatuation with his own
splendour taken place on the seat of the King of Gods. Rather than
accuse his relative of treachery, Orlanth resolved himself to shame him
in a contest.
It came as a surprise to realise that not only his uncle, but all the
court, had gone astray. Although they were the Creator's deputies, they no
longer adapted with the changing, evolving force of his Creation, but
instead, fearing lest they lose their station, sought to fossilise and
preserve the world as it now was, with themselves as eternal Regents
wielding the powers of God the Creator, and denying it to his heir.
Still, Orlanth didn't want to dishonour family, and the contests became
fiercer, until in the contest of weapons Orlanth taught Yelm the meaning
of Stasis: Death.
Orlanth then appointed Elmal, his cousin and son-in-law, to take over
Stewardship, and his loyal thane didn't betray him. The Sun, however,
shone weaker ever after.
[Story about the Lesser Darkness and the beginning of the Greater Darkness
deleted]
In an epic journey we know as the Lightbringers' Quest Orlanth and his
companions brought Yelm back into life, and through the creation of time
from the Spirit and the forces of the void, he opened the way for a
renewal of creation.
So when Orlanth collected the gods into the compromise he gifted Yelm with
motion, but no control over it. Of all the deities, Yelm was tied most
closely to Time, which inherited the powers of Stasis. An official
ieffectively leading other officials, Yelm and his court were
reinstalled, to amuse Orlanth when he grew tired of his usual buffoon,
Eurmal.
Elmal taught his relative Yelm the virtues of Stewardship when he stepped
back from driving in the Sun Chariot and returned to spread his light from
Grandfather Aether's Sky Dome.
This might still hold inconsistancies (like: why did Elmal drive in a
chariot), but Nick's outrage had to be countered ASAP.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------