From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 12 Nov 1993, part 1
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: klaus@diku.dk
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 08 Nov 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <9311110941.AA13009@rimfaxe.diku.dk>
Date: 11 Nov 93 11:41:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2278
I have a question. Where does the word "pharoah" come from? At
first I thought that it was just a typo for pharaoh, but it has
been used too consistently for that. (In all the daylies posted
to this group, "pharaoh" has been used only once, in a book title).
Yet the ruler of the holy country is called pharaoh in the Genertela
box, a.k.a box 8.
Klaus O K
---------------------
From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Re: creation
Message-ID: <9311111509.AA29092@condor>
Date: 11 Nov 93 15:09:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2279
_________________
Joerg Baumgartner wrote:
>>>Any magical creation can be of temporal nature only.
>CW>A reasonable premise. Is there a Good Reason for this?
>Culturally biased as I currently am, yes, there is. Creation is the
>domain of the Invisible God in his Creator aspect. If any magician
>could do the same, why have a creator?
It's a matter of scale. It takes a god (or many gods) to create a world,
but perhaps a man would be capable of small creations. I think any independent
sorceress worth her salt would consider herself to have the potential for
god-hood. Start small, aim big.
>And there is the cost for permanent effects of magic. I doubt a mere
>mortal's soul would give enough material for 1 ENC of any substance
>while being burned off totally.
I feel otherwise. To be game-mechanicky: I reckon 1 point of permanent POW
sacrificed should, in theory, suffice to create 1 point of SIZ or thereabouts.
There might be some variation, but I think that this is the correct order of
magnitude. Consider the yield of the Tap spell... it leads me to suspect
that spirit may even be worth more than base substance.
(But this could just be a game-balance thing ;-)
I'm willing to admit that it should take a lot of *MP* for a permanent
creation. Mind you, 30+ duration is as good as permanent in Glorantha. :)
>If you go the runic way, to create anything within time you must master
>the (time-defying) Infinity rune. Held by the Invisible God, Arachne
>Solara and Flamal, all three of them active creators.
I agree, this sounds very reasonable. But it's conceivable that a
sorcerer could gain some small control over the Infinity rune IMO.
[...my lengthy explanation of how creation spells might work...]
>Then I'd call it "Summon (substance)". The substance provided would be
>taken away somewhere else along the fibre.
Ok, ok, what's in a name? To the punter on the ground it's gonna *look* like
a genuine creation. Even a sorcerer is unlikely to understand fully where
the stuff actually comes from and where it goes to. IMO Sorcerers would call
these "Summon (substance)" spells Creations, it sounds a lot more impressive
and who's gonna question it?
BTW I think a generic Summon(substance) spell is a potential can-of-worms;
Summon(Gold) Summon(Diamond) etc. you can see the problem...
I'd restrict it to creating pure elements: Earth, Air, Fire, Water etc.
This way you don't destroy the economics of your campaign.
(I also think, in this case, it would be best to lay down the specific
effects for each spell rather than just have a general "1 enc per intensity"
rule or whatever.)
>CW>...Phantom (sense) is an active spell for creating complex things.
>CW>I was thinking more of creating simple substances (elements) which did not
>CW>require active concentration to maintain.
>
>Hmm. If I had a matrix with a trigger condition, who would have to
>concentrate to keep up the phantom?
My opinion is that active spells flop unless the caster concentrates. Matrices
with triggering conditions can effectively cast themselves but they have no
inherent ability to concentrate on a spell to maintain it. So triggering
conditions only really work with passive spell matrices. If you want an item
which can maintain an active spell by itself then you have to bind an
appropriate spirit (which can concentrate indefinitely thus maintaining
the spell).
I wonder how other people treat active spells. If you cast an active spell,
say Fly, you can fly for as long as you concentrate on the spell. If you
stop concentrating then you stop flying, but does the spell actually end?
I thought it did, but other people are of the opinion that the spell
runs for its full duration so you can "re-start" your concentration and take-
off again as many times as you like for the duration of the spell. How do
you play active spells?
(I realise that there are some special cases eg. Dominate, where the spell
begins as active, but becomes passive once the commands are given).
___
CW.
---------------------
From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Sorcery & Dwarves
Message-ID: <9311111556.AB09043@Sun.COM>
Date: 11 Nov 93 14:45:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2280
REF: X-RQ-ID: 2201 (Colin Watson)
Overall this is an abitious plan but I think it needs a complete Rune Related
Character sheet so that we can tie runes and skills (I think Nick has been
working on one)?
I've annotated my ideas:
SORCERY_SPELL____________ ASSOCIATED_RUNE(S)_______________________________
Animate (Substance) Movement + substance rune
(wood=Plant; fire=Fire; metal=Earth? etc)
Cast Back Magic + Disorder? --> Fate or Luck?
Damage Boosting Mastery? + Death --> Disorder
Damage Resistance Law? + Stasis? --> Stasis + Luck
Diminish (XXX) Definitely NOT Mastery (Hunger? Disorder?)
STR --> Darkness?
CON --> Fertility? Stasis? Water?
SIZ --> Disorder (giants)?
DEX --> Movement
APP --> Illusion
Dominate (Species) Mastery? + species rune --> YES Mastery here
Drain Mastery? + Fertility --> Disorder (Close to Chaos
and therefore Tap!
Enhance(XXX) Mastery? Yes & See above
Fly Movement + Air
Form/Set (Substance) Mastery + substance rune
Glow Light (maybe Fire? or Moon?)
Haste Movement
Hinder Stasis
Holdfast Stasis
Mystic Vision Truth + Magic
Neutralise Magic Magic + ? (Mastery again??) --> Luck?
Palsy Stasis --> + DISORDER
Phantom (Sense) Illusion + Sense (see below)
(Sense) Projection Truth + Stasis --> Replace Stasis with Rune for
Sense (Air = Hear, Light/Fire = See, Beast =
Smell etc.)
Protective Circle Law? + Harmony? Seems OKish
Regenerate Fertility + Harmony?
(restore the harmony of the whole)
Sense (Substance) Truth + substance rune
Shapechange (Spec to Spec) Harmony + species rune + other species rune
eg. human->troll only needs Harmony+Man runes
human->elf needs Harmony+Man+Plant runes
Skin of Life Harmony + Air
Smother Death + Air --> (or could be WATER)
Spell Resistance Law? + Magic --> I vote YES
Spirit Resistance Law? + Spirit --> I vote YES
Stupefaction Disorder? (for confusion?)
(maybe AND Harmony for Harmonization?)
^^^ IMHO
Tap (Characteristic) Chaos & See above for stats.
INT --> Truth
POW --> Spirit
Telepathy Communication
Teleport Movement + Stasis (ie. moving without travelling)
Treat wounds Fertility
Venom Death + Luck?
Ceremony -> Magic
Enchant -> Stasis --> LAW?
Summon -> Spirit
Intensity -> Mastery
Range -> Movement? --> I agree
Duration -> Time/Infinity? --> I agree
Multispell-> Harmony
But maybe this is taking things a bit too far...
REF: X-RQ-ID: 2203
> I would have thought an electromagnetic sense (or rather its Gloranthan
> analogue) would be more appropriate.
> Thom
Right on there Thom! With a computer and a compass a dwarf can now navigate
in pitch black and detect moving ferous metals. They can also detect the
electro-magnetic emmisions of other creatures central nervous systems at close
range. Obviously dwarves would use their beards as detectors in this system
which would explain why they are so touchy about their facial hair (and why
female dwarves, if they existed, would have beards too).
Note that apostate dwarves who had strayed from the dwarven way might not be
able to navigate very well using this sense as it requires highly accurate
computation as well (only possible if you think in binary/octal and have a
group/hive mind).
I see dwarves as the mechanical, zombie, sharks of the underworld...
-----
Lewis
-----
---------------------
From: clay@cool.khis.com (Clay Luther)
Subject: Interjecting Some Real World Tidbits (re Sun County)
Message-ID: <199311111816.AA25361@cool.khis.com>
Date: 11 Nov 93 06:16:03 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2281
I've been reading a bit lately about bronze-age warfare. Here are some of
the tidbits I've gleaned:
On armor: the Minoan-Myceneaen culture started producing heavy bronze "tubes"
that the soldier wore as armor. However, during the archaic Greek period,
body armor gave way to the large circular shield and linen shirts. It seems
the shield actually offered more protection than the body armor (presumably
because it was more mobile). The spear become longer and they stopped using
it for throwing. [I've never been able to convince my players that a shield
offers more protection than body armor...a weakness of game systems, I guess,
or perhaps a left-over memory of D&D...]
The phalanx did not "arrive" until the mid-classical period (500BC). Up until
then, battles were fought "free-for-all" and relied greatly on the strengths
of individuals.
The Persians, who the Greeks defeated at Marathon, wore linen armor and
carried wicker shields, spears, and bows. The most elite troops under
Xerxes were called the Immortals, and they were "highly feared" by the
Greeks. However, Marathon proved the worth of the phalanx. Athens mustered
about 10,000 men against the Persian 250,000. The Athenians used phalanx
tactics, the Persians just kinda ran across the battlefield, I guess. The
Athenians lost 200 men. The Persians lost several thousand and retreated.
Moving westward, the Romans used both the long celtish slashing swords and the
short stabbing gladius. Even during the Hellenic period, the Romans were
constantly fighting the celts.
Good references are the Oxford History of Hellenic Greece and the History of
Arms and Armor.
--
Clay Luther clay@cool.khis.com
Macintosh Software Engineer Kodak Health Imaging Systems
Eurmal stole the Ten-by-Ten Spear from them and left a blade of grass in its
place. When Elmal used it against the Boar, it broke and the Boar wounded him.
Orlanth blew his horn, frightening the Boar, and Urox leapt upon its back.
---------------------
From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily. More Doraddi Stuff!
Message-ID: <9311111829.AA25866@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 11 Nov 93 06:29:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2282
Rich (last name?) sez: Many nice (and highly accurate) things about
why there are inconsistencies in my and Greg's work.
Thanks, Rich.
Joerg Baumbartner asks:
(in reference to my statement of: The other Malkioni didn't appear
until after the Dawn.
> After the Dawn, or after the end of the Chaos Wars? Dawn is a
> period of unknown length, see the date for the LBQ in KoS, p.270.
Traditionally Hrestol's revelation occurred in A.D. 1. Whatever that
means.
> I know of no incident where Sartarite captives of war were enslaved
> and carried off to work the fields of Lunar Heartland.
I agree with Joerg here, with reference to the reasons behind Lunar
expansionism. Their conquest of Sartar is not, IMO, a desire for
slaves, but based on (A) idealistic missionary impulses, (B) lust for
conquest & wealth like unto British Imperialism, which was also not
slave-based, and (C) lust for glory on the part of border officials
and military officers. This doesn't mean that some Sartarites
haven't been sold into slavery. But in general I suspect Orlanthi of
making bad slaves.
re: Dwarf senses
Just a note. Rural Norwegians believed that one of the signs of a
gnome (for them, a dwarf-like fairy) was that he had cat's whiskers.
> The Seven Mothers as a grouping of associate cults: are the
> Lightbringers worshipped in a similar way? I notice that there is a
> temple to the Lightbringers in Riskland.
I don't know of anywhere that the Lightbringers have been combined
together to make a separate cult. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
Maybe in one of the more civilized parts of barbarian Ralios or in
Umathela. It (such a group cult) sounds a likely candidate for a
surviving God Learner experiment in some corner of the world. Much as
Caladra & Aurelion were a God Learner experimental success. Before
the God Learners, these two gods were separate, not even associate
cults. But some clever wizard noted the fact that their mythical
histories overlapped, and welded the cults together to make a single
successful religion out of a pair of moribund minor gods.
I think the Lightbringer temple in Riskland is a temple complex in
which all the Lightbringers have at least a shrine.
AND NOW ... DORADDI TIME
JMIEJIE AND THE WANDERLUST
The Doraddi are a nomad people, moving their encampments every few
weeks, but usually following a circuit through known territory.
However, every so often a person is struck with the "Wanderlust".
This is regarded as half disease, half divine madness, and is a cause
for sorrow, as nobody ever recovers from the Wanderlust.
If you get the Wanderlust, you are automatically considered to be an
initiate of Jmijie. Some Doraddi blame Jmijie as the cause of the
dread Wanderlust, others claim that he just makes life easier for the
wanderers, and is trying to protect them.
A person suffering from Wanderlust is compelled to travel. The longer
he tries to stay in a given area, the further he finds himself
walking after he finally is forced to leave. In the worst cases, the
sufferer cannot even bear to be within eyesight of the place he
bedded down at the night before.
The Wanderlust is bad because you must leave your tribe and extended
family. If your spouse is very loyal, or catches the Wanderlust
herself, then you may not have to divorce her. Your children don't
necessarily inherit the Wanderlust from you, and when they reach
adulthood, they generally leave you for an established tribe.
Wanderlust can run in families, though, and lineages with a high
percentage of Wanderlust victims are considered undesirable as
marriage partners.
It is well-known that when danger threatens the Doraddi people, the
percentage of Jmijie wanderers increases, and their numbers are
currently increasing.
Magic Ecology & Miniatures Notes: the Jmijie folk are magically able
to run much faster than "normal" folk (basically, 3 times as fast, or
nearly as fast as a horse). During the wars against the evil
Six-Legged Empire, the Jmijie wanderers formed an important part of
Hon Hoolbiktu's army, taking the same place in the army that light
cavalry take in more conventional forces.
Also, since the Jmijie folk's tribal loyalties are kaput (of
necessity), yet they still have the common human emotional need for
acceptance and support, any tribe who needs help soon finds ample
support in the form of numerous Jmijie hangers-on, joining up to help
against the threat, but who then depart again when the threat has
vanished. ("Who WAS that masked man?") In the past, they've appeared
to save the day vs. Elf invaders, Slarge raids, and Chaos incursions.
Unfortunately, one of the main dangers to the Doraddi today is the
threatened war between the Arbennan Confederation and the Kresh
"Empire". Since human fights human in this war, the Jmijie folk find
it unclear as to which side is the "good" guys, and their support is
dissipated, with some on both sides, and some neutral.
DORADDI CULTURAL OVERVIEW
There are three levels of society: People, Tribe, and Family. Your
People are equivalent to a Praxian Tribe -- the Men-and-a-Half are
one People, for instance, and the Kresh are another. Non-human races
are generally considered to be Peoples by the Doraddi, as are
non-Doraddi. Thus, the Veldang population of Zamokil is considered to
be one People, though the Veldang themselves Huge groupings of a
given People never muster together in the Praxian fashion, however.
It would be impossible, given the great dispersion and distances of
Pamaltelan society.
The Tribe is the main structure of society, ruled by a Chieftain. The
Chieftain must be from one of the proper chieftain lineages for that
tribe (and every tribe has its own lineages considered appropriate),
plus he must be a tribe member and usually an initiate of Pamalt. The
Chieftain rules the tribe as he sees fit, and his word is law within
the tribe. However, there are some highly effective checks on any
potential abuse of power. The tribe's Chieftain is chosen by the
tribe's old women from among the available candidates. They naturally
choose only candidates that they think will be good. In addition, by
a majority vote, the old women's council can terminate a Chieftain's
reign, and bring in a new Chieftain of their choice. Thus, any good
Chieftain strives to keep the old women happy.
Some tribes have very onerous requirements for their chieftain
(lineage-wise), and so the old women have few candidates to choose
among. Naturally, in these tribes the chieftain has more authority
than in a tribe with many potential candidates.
By the way, the "old women" in a tribe are generally what we would
consider middle-aged. Really elderly women generally move to an
oasis. But not always.
The Family (extended family, in this case) is the basic unit. A Tribe
is made up of several Families, up to a hundred or more. A Family may
leave their Tribe if they are dissatisfied or angry, and join another
Tribe. This is considered a major act, much the same way a divorce is
considered to be a major act in modern American society -- not
exactly unusual, but a sad event, if sometimes necessary. If enough
families leave a tribe, the tribe may disintegrate, and cease to
exist. A group of families can join together and form a new tribe,
too. Both these events are quite rare.
The family head is nominally the oldest person in that family, but in
practice this is not always the case. Much like in American Standard
culture the husband is traditionally considered to be the family
head, but in reality ... Of course, relationships are more
complicated in an extended family than the puny nuclear families most
of us grew up in.
Oh yes, when a man marries, he joins his wife's family (and tribe, if
they are from different tribes). This is a pretty important point,
and the result is that the women stick together and are generally in
charge of things, though the men have a say, too, and still have to
do most of the hunting.
OASES
An Oasis in Pamaltela is not at all like those in Prax. For one
thing, the Jolar plains are not so hostile as the Wastes. The Oases
are inhabited by elderly men and women. Permanent structures (usually
adobe or wattle) are build to house the inhabitants, and horticulture
is practiced at these sites, both for food crops and medicinal or
magic herbs.
All tribes whose area includes an oasis are expected to contribute to
the oasis' upkeep, by providing them with meat, helping maintain and
build their homes, harvesting crops, and generally helping out,
acting as youthful backs and muscles. The 10% of time that initiates
are supposed to spend "upholding the religion" in Pamaltela is spent
on one of these oases. For instance, though the oases are not
attacked or pillaged by human tribes, guards are sometimes needed
against rampaging dinosaurs, monsters, and other potential enemies.
Not that the oasis dwellers are completely helpless -- most of them
are at least acolytes, and there is a high proportion of shamans and
priests. Aleshmara and Cronisper are popular religions at these
oases, and many folk upon retiring switch allegiance from Nyanka or
Pamalt to these deities.
The oases serve as magic support, permanent temple structures, and
valuable sources for herbs and plant food. To Genertela eyes, the
oases may seem vulnerable compared to a walled city. But no one tries
to cheat or rob them, because the inhabitants are your own parents,
grandparents, or ex-spouses. Plus they're valuable sites to have
around. You may be on one some day.
Another reason for the many useful herbs at these oases is that many
people die there (old age, natch), and of course their lineage plant
grows atop the grave.
Not all old people retire to oases. Some stick it out with the
tribes. Others are Jmijie wanderers, incapable of retiring (another
reason this is regarded as a blight). But it is considered the
"normal" thing to do. An oasis inhabitant, by the way, is still
considered part of your permanent family, though he or she is no
longer considered the family head even if he or she is the oldest
living member. Still, if you are making an important decision, it is
common to travel to the retirement oasis (or oases) at which your
elderly relatives live to ask their opinion. This can take a long
time, but "urgency" is not considered a virtue in Pamaltela.
---------------------
From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <9311111833.AA25884@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 11 Nov 93 06:33:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2283
I have enjoyed the opportunity to insert some of my Pamaltela essays
into the Digest, but am curious as to how useful/interesting this is
to you guys. Especially given that I have done some significant work
on the probably-not-going-to-be-published Praxpack.
For my next magical trick, should I give some more Pamaltela data, or
some of my information on the Wastes?
Sandy Petersen