Bell Digest v931117p2

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 17 Nov 1993, part 2
Message-ID: 
Precedence: junk


---------------------

From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham  , via RadioMail)
Subject: Sunspear-screen; shooting backwards; population; armor
Message-ID: <199311161817.AA04913@radiomail.net>
Date: 16 Nov 93 18:17:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2345

Do spells such as Countermagic or Cast Back protect against a Sunspear?
"The target's thinnest armor only will protect against this damage, spells
are ineffective [including armor-like spells such as Protection or
Shield]." (brackets added in errata) By contrast, thunderbolt says "Neither
armor nor spells that protect against physical damage are effective against
this spell, though countermagic will work." The different wording implies
that the spells are different. But Cast Back "affects any offensive spell,"
and is obviously not armor-like.

I'm leaning towards the 'anti-magic defenses protect against Sunspear,' in
part because in Griffin Island (probably the supplement in which sorcery is
best presented), Halcyon var Enkorth hasn't been zotted out of existence by
the Sunspear-using Hilme cult.

My player Pam says:
>Also, does "thinnest armor counts" mean the most lightly armored location?

That seems pretty clear. Sunspear definitely ignores armor-like spells, and
seeks out your weakest spot.

Sandy said:
>Also the Impala folks are  
>masters of riding away from you at full speed, firing arrows as they  
>flee

The RQ rules aren't real big on restricting the Parthian Shot -- can't
anyone do this? (Of course, RQ2 Kuschile Archery always seemed like a
redundant skill too.)

>From: graeme.lindsell@anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell)
> Any ideas why the Genertelan population is so small? With the various
>fertility spells and magical healing I would expect the population
>to be bigger than medieval Europe, rather than less.

Because Genert is dead, which greatly reduces the productivity of
Genertela. Plus there are LOTS of wars, and nasty folks like Malia.

>From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
>Setting an adventure on board ship is a good way of localising the action

Unfortunately, it's also an excellent way of excluding your scenario from
most Sartarite or Praxian campaigns, since neither have any ports.

>From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
>: Heavy, uncomfortable, unbearably
>: hot, the panoply was especially poorly suited for the Mediterranean
>: summer; it restricted even simple movement, and in general must have
>: made life miserable for the men who were expected to wear it.

Very hard to game this, however... (and two recommendations for Victor
Davis Hanson in the same issue!) There really aren't any tradeoffs for
wearing heavy armor.


---------------------

From: sullivam@mlc.lib.mi.us (Mark Sullivan -- Michigan Library Consortium)
Subject: Re: Praxpack
Message-ID: 
Date: 16 Nov 93 09:52:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2347


Peter Michaels sez: 


> please do tell why Praxpack is probably-not-going-to-be-published. 

To which Sandy replied:

>>Maybe it WILL be published. It's just that I haven't heard any word on
>>it for a long time. I.e., have not received back the manuscript so I can
>>finish it up, stuff like that. I guess I just assumed AH had lost
>>interest in it. Myself, I'd love to see it in print. 

I would like to see it in print as well.  All in favor...

Should we direct requests to Ken Rolston?


 * Mark Sullivan *



---------------------

From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: UnGregged!
Message-ID: <931116212357_100270.337_BHB48-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 16 Nov 93 21:23:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2348

______________
Sandy's stuff:

>> [Joerg said] So Sandy can be Gregged, too: KoS, p.26: "... the 
>> werewolf folk turned against Argrath

> [Sandy recoiled] Argh! Cut to the quick. Et tu, Joergus? I'm amused
> that "Gregged" seems to be becoming a verb.

[Nick counters] On the other hand, if the Telmori had been convincingly 
shown that the so-called "Prince" Argrath was a usurper, and not of the 
House of Sartar at all... (Unlike Temertain, unquestionably legitimate) 
(What, me bitter?)

It is interesting that in all the discussion of how Glorantha has changed 
over the years, nobody mentioned the undeniable fact that, these days, Greg 
is deliberately inconsistent in what he says. This is, I think, one of the 
most appealing features of his recent writings: you *have* to put your mind 
to work if you want to get the most out of them. I agree, it's not ideal 
for gaming reference materials, but you can't have everything now, can you?


> [The Pol-joni Barbarian Horde] are called the "Bastard Tribe" by
> other Praxians, not because of their personalities...

I've met some. Let's say, "Not just because of their personalities"...
                               ^^^^

>> Think of the Lunar navy as like the Romans in the Punic Wars.

> I think the Lunar navy is amazingly inferior to the Romans in the  
> Punic wars.

Now that *is* amazing! The Roman navy was almost completely useless in the 
Punic wars: they ended up by deciding to use their fleet as a big floating 
platform on which to fight land battles at sea. Nice to have my impression 
supported -- as you say, it's good scenario material.

BTW, I loved all the Praxian tribal foibles.

___________________________
Guy Hoyle came back to ask:

> In King of Sartar, Stafford mentions a cult of Vinga, whose
> adherents are women adventurers who have red hair (dyed or
> naturally). Has anyone found out more details? Or speculated?
> I think she was a daughter of Orlanth.

Check out the old RQ Dailies for the first week or so of September.

> SABLE RIDERS
> I don't quite understand why the Sable Riders joined the Lunars at 
> Moonbroth. Was it because the Lunar Sables had already embraced the
> Lunar Way long ago? Were they Illuminated? Aren't there some Storm
> Bulls among the Sable Tribes who objected ("Any chaos is all Chaos!")?

There is, according to old published sources, a pre-existing connection 
between Sables and the Moon, one that is way, way older than the present 
(Red Goddess) incarnation of the Moon Goddess. This is why first the Hungry 
Plateau Sable Tribe and then their Praxian cousins joined the Lunar way 
with such surprising readiness. With a place-name like "Moonbroth" already 
to be found in pre-Lunar Prax, there are pretty big clues to this kind of 
thing going on.

I'm not sure how all the Storm Bucks reacted: probably some of them did 
whatever it is they do when their Khan makes alliance with the Broos, or 
Malia, or Cwim, or any other Chaos monstrosity of the Wastes.

____________________
Mark Sullivan wrote:

> OK Nick, tell me more about Tales of the Reaching Moon.

"Tales of the Reaching Moon" is *the* Gloranthan Magazine. Edited by David 
Hall, Steve Thomas and Michael O'Brien. Published three times a year (if 
our luck holds). Details of how to get copies available in the back of most 
of the recent Avalon Hill RQ releases, but I'll reprint them here. In my 
humble opinion, it is *essential* reading. And they don't pay me to say 
that...

"Tales" distributors live all over the globe, but as you're (presumably) 
from Michigan in the Colonies you should write or email to:

	David Gadbois (INTERNET:gadbois@cs.utexas.edu)
	PO Box 49475
	Austin
	Texas 78765
	USA

Subscriptions currently cost US$3.00 per issue, and are well worth while.

> David, what is the source for your tribal list and do you have
> locations and/or tribal strengths?

A published source for location info. is the Sartar Tribes Map in Tales#6. 
I've seen rough notes of strengths, but nothing that looked finished or has 
been published beyond a few numbers for tribal strengths in Wyrms Footnotes 
#7's "Sartar High Council" article (which ought to be reprinted in "Wyrms 
Footprints", when that happens), and the "Lunar Population Report" on the 
Colymar tribe in KoS p.233f.

__________________
John Medway asked:

> Other than it's a easy and natural way for humans to count, is there a 
> specific reason for 10s?

"Ten" is named as one of the minor Dara Happan gods in Greg's latest book. 
This may suggest the number is as important (if you want to do things 
properly) in Dara Happa as it was in Poictesme thanks to Miramon Lluagor.

Incidentally, I am sure that the Lunars introduced the number "zero" to 
Glorantha, and its various uses in arithmetic as a place-denoter, etc. 
Anyone else out there who's tried to read pre-Arabic numbers will see what 
I'm getting at. (Sir Kay has a nice rant along these lines in Steinbeck).

__________________
Pam Carlson asked:

> We've been wondering about how effective defensive magic is vs Sunspear.
> The line in RQ 3 reads "magic is ineffective, including spells that act
> as armor."  Does this mean ALL magic, not just Protection and Shield?
> Does it ignore Reflection/Cast Back, Absorption, Countermagic, Damage
> Resistance, and Spell Resistance? Also, does "thinnest armor counts" mean
> the most lightly armored location?
> Inquiring solar minds want to know.

I think your expansion of the spell description's (unclear) meaning is 
correct. Sunspear is meant to be a *really* heavy duty offensive spell. 
Besides, think how embarrasing it would be if a shaft of Yelm's fiery
wrath were reflected, or absorbed, or hit the wrong person...

BTW, in the Dara Happan history-books, the manifestation of a Sunspear is a 
great vindication of the moral uprightness of whoever it was that cast it. 
Probably a Thunderbolt is the same for Orlanthi. Don't make them cheap!

====
Nick
====

---------------------

From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: Argh
Message-ID: <9311162201.AA01407@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 16 Nov 93 10:01:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2349


Sandy Here Again.

*sigh*

One of the entries in my listing of Praxian tribes on Tuesday read as  
follows:

>BISON RIDERS

>Technically, the Bison Riders are one of the Great Tribes, and  

>supposedly were as large as any other tribe at the Dawn. Now, of  

>course, they're minute. The Bison Riders have no clans (or, perhaps,  

>they have but one clan coterminous with their tribe), but have  
>little septs. They have tiny little "herds", occasionally consisting  
>of just  one rhino, the owner's steed. Alone among the Praxian

This should, of course be changed so that Bison Rider = Rhino Rider.  
What an awful typo. However, I don't think it fooled anyone for long.  
Sorry. 


Sandy  


---------------------

From: burt@ptltd.com (Burton Choinski)
Subject: Another nifty program.
Message-ID: <9311162307.AA00758@tonto.ptltd.com>
Date: 16 Nov 93 23:07:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2350

The following is another, small program you can feed your laserprinter.
What it does is populate an area based on the rules in Book 3.  You can
fine tune the creation of new cities and the like, and it seems to do a
pretty good job, from what I have noticed so far.

If you have any comments on it, just mail me and let me know.

Program begins with the next line, cut all text before (including this one)
%!
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%% Populator.ps
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%% Configure the known information here
%%   EXAMPLE: Set for Loskalm, based on the Genertala Book
%%
  /AREA (Loskalm) def

  /MET 0 def		% # of metropoli on the map
  /LC  5 def		% # of large cities on the map
  /MC  3 def		% # of medium cities on the map
  /SC  0 def		% # of small cities on the map
  /TC  0 def		% # of towns on the map

  /POP 3200000 def	% Total population listed for the region

  /CLOSE -1 def		% How close to the map?  (see below)

%% The CLOSE variable indicates how close you want to be the map.  
%%    -2: Generate cities less than known ones only
%%    -1: Generate cities less than or equal to known ones
%%     0: May generate additional (or new) anything
%%     1: May not create additional Metropoli
%%     2: May not create additional Metropoli or Large Cities
%%     3: May not create additional Metropoli, Large or Medium Cities
%%     4: May not create additional Metropoli or any cities -- townships only

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

  usertime srand
  /RND {rand 1000000 mod 999999 div mul cvi 1 add} bind def


  /EA [] def  /LA [] def  /MA [] def  /SA [] def  /TA [] def

  POP /tot exch def

%% Allocate Noted Sites
  
  MET {
    0 {6 RND dup 6 eq {pop 5 add} {add exit} ifelse} loop
    5 add 5000 mul 11 RND 6 sub 500 mul add dup tot exch sub /tot exch def
    EA aload length 1 add array astore /EA exch def
  } repeat

  LC {
    5 RND 5000 mul 11 RND 6 sub 500 mul add dup tot exch sub /tot exch def
    LA aload length 1 add array astore /LA exch def
  } repeat

  MC {
    4 RND 4 RND add 1000 mul 11 RND 6 sub 100 mul add dup tot exch sub 
    /tot exch def MA aload length 1 add array astore /MA exch def
  } repeat

  SC {
    6 RND 500 mul 11 RND 6 sub 50 mul add dup tot exch sub 
    /tot exch def SA aload length 1 add array astore /SA exch def
  } repeat

  CLOSE -1 eq {
    TC 0 gt {/CLOSE 4 def} if
    SC 0 gt {/CLOSE 3 def} if
    MC 0 gt {/CLOSE 2 def} if
    LC 0 gt {/CLOSE 1 def} if
    MET 0 gt {/CLOSE 0 def} if
  } if

  CLOSE -2 eq {
    SC 0 gt {/CLOSE 4 def} if
    MC 0 gt {/CLOSE 3 def} if
    LC 0 gt {/CLOSE 2 def} if
    MET 0 gt {/CLOSE 1 def} if
  } if


%% Find Metropoli... (NOTE: Only if in "new" mode

  CLOSE 0 eq {
    tot EA {20 mul sub} forall /tmp exch def
    { 
      0 {6 RND dup 6 eq {pop 5 add} {add exit} ifelse} loop
      5 add 5000 mul 11 RND 6 sub 500 mul add dup 20 mul tmp gt {pop exit} {
        dup tot exch sub /tot exch def dup 20 mul tmp exch sub /tmp exch def
        EA aload length 1 add array astore /EA exch def MET 1 add /MET exch def
      } ifelse
    } loop
  } if

%% Find Large Cities...
  CLOSE 2 lt {
    tot LA {15 mul sub} forall /tmp exch def
    {
      5 RND 5000 mul 11 RND 6 sub 500 mul add dup 20 mul tmp gt {pop exit} {
        dup tot exch sub /tot exch def dup 15 mul tmp exch sub /tmp exch def
        LA aload length 1 add array astore /LA exch def LC 1 add /LC exch def
      } ifelse
    } loop
  } if

%% Find Medium Cities...
  CLOSE 3 lt {
    tot MA {10 mul sub} forall /tmp exch def
    {
      4 RND 4 RND add 1000 mul 11 RND 6 sub 100 mul add dup 10 mul tmp gt {pop exit} {
        dup tot exch sub /tot exch def dup 10 mul tmp exch sub /tmp exch def
        MA aload length 1 add array astore /MA exch def MC 1 add /MC exch def
      } ifelse
    } loop
  } if

%% Find Small Cities...
  CLOSE 4 lt {
    tot SA {5 mul sub} forall /tmp exch def
    {
      6 RND 500 mul 11 RND 6 sub 50 mul add dup 5 mul tmp gt {pop exit} {
        dup tot exch sub /tot exch def dup 5 mul tmp exch sub /tmp exch def
        SA aload length 1 add array astore /SA exch def SC 1 add /SC exch def
      } ifelse
    } loop
  } if

%% Find Towns...
  tot TA {2 mul sub} forall /tmp exch def
  {
    8 RND 2 add 100 mul 11 RND 6 sub 10 mul add dup 2 mul tmp gt {pop exit} {
      dup tot exch sub /tot exch def dup 2 mul tmp exch sub /tmp exch def
      TA aload length 1 add array astore /TA exch def TC 1 add /TC exch def
    } ifelse
  } loop


    50 725 moveto
    /Helvetica findfont 20 scalefont setfont
    AREA show

    50 700 moveto
    /Helvetica findfont 15 scalefont setfont
    (Total Population: ) show POP 10 string cvs show
    50 675 translate

    /Helvetica findfont 10 scalefont setfont 0 0 moveto
    (# of Metropoli: ) show MET 10 string cvs show MET 0 gt {
      0 -8 translate 0 0 moveto /Helvetica findfont 6 scalefont setfont 
      0 EA {dup 10 string cvs dup stringwidth pop currentpoint pop add 500 gt {
        0 -6.5 translate 0 0 moveto 
      } if
      show (  ) show add} forall 0 -10 translate 10 0 moveto
      /Helvetica findfont 8 scalefont setfont 
      10 string cvs show ( total population) show 0 -20 translate
    } {
      0 -20 translate
    } ifelse

    /Helvetica findfont 10 scalefont setfont 0 0 moveto
    (# of Large Cities: ) show LC 10 string cvs show LC 0 gt {
      0 -9 translate 0 0 moveto /Helvetica findfont 6 scalefont setfont 
      0 LA {dup 10 string cvs dup stringwidth pop currentpoint pop add 500 gt {
        0 -6.5 translate 0 0 moveto 
      } if
      show (  ) show add} forall 0 -10 translate 10 0 moveto
      /Helvetica findfont 8 scalefont setfont 
      10 string cvs show ( total population) show 0 -20 translate
    } {
      0 -20 translate
    } ifelse

    /Helvetica findfont 10 scalefont setfont 0 0 moveto
    (# of Medium Cities: ) show MC 10 string cvs show MC 0 gt {
      0 -9 translate 0 0 moveto /Helvetica findfont 6 scalefont setfont 
      0 MA {dup 10 string cvs dup stringwidth pop currentpoint pop add 500 gt {
        0 -6.5 translate 0 0 moveto 
      } if
      show (  ) show add} forall 0 -10 translate 10 0 moveto
      /Helvetica findfont 8 scalefont setfont 
      10 string cvs show ( total population) show 0 -20 translate
    } {
      0 -20 translate
    } ifelse

    /Helvetica findfont 10 scalefont setfont 0 0 moveto
    (# of Small Cities: ) show SC 10 string cvs show SC 0 gt {
      0 -9 translate 0 0 moveto /Helvetica findfont 6 scalefont setfont 
      0 SA {dup 10 string cvs dup stringwidth pop 
        currentpoint pop add 500 gt {0 -6.5 translate 0 0 moveto 
      } if 1 index 1000 lt {(0) stringwidth pop 0 rmoveto} if 
      show (  ) show add} forall 
      0 -10 translate 10 0 moveto
      /Helvetica findfont 8 scalefont setfont 
      10 string cvs show ( total population) show 0 -20 translate
    } {
      0 -20 translate
    } ifelse

    /Helvetica findfont 10 scalefont setfont 0 0 moveto
    (# of Townships: ) show TC 10 string cvs show TC 0 gt {
      0 -9 translate 0 0 moveto /Helvetica findfont 6 scalefont setfont 
      0 TA {dup 10 string cvs dup stringwidth pop 
        currentpoint pop add 500 gt {0 -6.5 translate 0 0 moveto 
      } if 1 index 1000 lt {(0) stringwidth pop 0 rmoveto} if 
      show (  ) show add} forall 
      0 -10 translate 10 0 moveto
      /Helvetica findfont 8 scalefont setfont 
      10 string cvs show ( total population) show 0 -20 translate
    } {
      0 -20 translate
    } ifelse

    /Helvetica findfont 10 scalefont setfont 0 0 moveto
    (Remaining population of ) show tot 10 string cvs show
    ( in villages and hearths) show    
    
    showpage
%%
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

      -- Burton

---------------------

From: WALLMAN@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (Personal friend of Little Elvis)
Subject: Gloranthan Genertelan Geological Geometry
Message-ID: <01H5EE7J3DOI000GT6@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU>
Date: 16 Nov 93 17:32:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2351

Speaking of how tall blocks are and line of sights...

Does Wintertop in Dragon Pass block the moon from those who are behind it?
It is really tall (12 km), and seem to recall the moon is not that really
that high (not astronomically high).  

My next question is if so, what does this mean for all the people who live 
in this narrow shadow?  What does Lunar magic do in this shadow?  

I have actually drawn a line on my map to see where the shadow might be,
and Whitewall falls suspiciously close to it (close enough to be on it
as far as these ever changing maps go).  Where else to make a last
stand than in a large walled city protected from the glare of the red moon 
by Wintertop?  Some acccount I heard about the battle for this city
had the Crimson Bat brought in...to provide the necessary red glow
for the attacking lunar magicians perhaps?  

But is such a strip of non-illuminated land existed, I would expect it 
would have been mentioned by now.

Ed Wallman@vax2.winona.msus.edu

---------------------

From: ghoyle@smashland.nelsonville.oh.us (Guy Hoyle)
Subject: Getting Spiritual
Message-ID: <6H45cc2w165w@smashland.nelsonville.oh.us>
Date: 17 Nov 93 04:28:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2352

A couple of questions about Spirits.

Is it possible to obtain Spirit Magic from other types of spirits than 
Spel Spirits? I'm thinking that a shaman might be able to take spirit 
magic away from discorporate characters, ghosts, or other similar spirits 
who know some spells.

Does a shaman's fetch usually posses his master's body when the shaman is 
out gallivanting around on the Spirit Plane? Can the fetch in the 
shaman's body use any of the shaman's spells or other abilities while 
emembodied?

Guy Hoyle
(also known as Mulborth to some)

---------------------

X-RQ-ID: Extro

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