From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 22 Nov 1993, part 1
Message-ID:
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham Entropy requires no maintenance)
Subject: misc
Message-ID: <01H5IZA7YBOI0077EP@UG.EDS.COM>
Date: 19 Nov 93 22:18:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2383
Height of Wintertop
>>It's not that tall, only 4000 ft above the sea [King of Sartar
>p.184].
>
>Correct, but...
>The incredible peak towers 12 kilometers into the air and is
>visible from hundreds of kilometers around. [Glorantha,
>Genertela Book, p. 61]
I'd got the impression that the 4000' figure was the *base* of
Wintertop, i.e. the height of the col of (the real) Dragon Pass.
Or maybe I was just trying to rationalise the two figures
together. Certainly Orlanth's Mother deserves to be more
impressive than the little hills dotting the British Isles.
Runic ramblings...
>>> A friend of mine had some insight into this. He drew an
>analogy between
>>> the Chaos rune of Glorantha and the Radiation rune of the
>real world...
>
>Hmm, superimpose Chaos and Truth, and it's visually fairly
>close.
Dark & Truth even closer...
>>I don't think most Theyalans would recognise a Law rune if they
>saw one.
>
>Glad that you raise the subject. Of late I have been wondering:
>What *is* the difference between Law and Stasis?
Law seems to be the best you can do to make the Stasis rune with
the linework from the Harmony rune. But then I'd also say the
Issaries rune is really a sub-rune of Harmony.
---------------------
From: awr0@aber.ac.uk (Adam Reynolds, 3rd Year and worried....)
Subject: Request
Message-ID: <9311201729.AA29997@fronta.aber.ac.uk>
Date: 20 Nov 93 17:29:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2384
Did somebody say they were handling the American Runequest Adventures
fanzine delivery into the UK? Could this particular person please mail
me an address to write to and the cost!
Thank you
Adam
Ps: Allow me to be the first "May I wish all of you a MERRY CHRISTMAS and a
HAPPY NEW YEAR !"
naaaaaaaa, knew I'd make you scream!
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From: C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (Newton Hughes)
Subject: shield design
Message-ID: <9311202031.AA05704@Sun.COM>
Date: 20 Nov 93 20:11:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2385
John Medway asked for shield design ideas. Do you know what a triskelos
is? It was commonly used on Greek shields, you can see it in vase
paintings (the archeology museum in town here has an original). It
is basically a mobility rune, with the spiral arms taking the form of
legs, ending in sandaled feet and the thighs meeting at the center.
Boggles: a Boggle is a disorder spirit. Beyond that all I know is
(others') apparently unofficial speculations. There apparently is a
strong resemblance to Toon characters.
Prax questions: I would like to know more about Tada (beyond the info
published in Griffin Mtn). Also, how big is his tumulus (to re-
iterate David Dunham's question)? Artifacts of Tada's are carried
around by Praxian shamans and priests; what's the relationship?
About Jaldon Toothmaker: He was born in a bison rider's tent, accord-
ing to the Pavis book. What's he doing riding a horse (albeit skeletal)
and leading Pol-Joni in Dragon Pass?
I'd like to know more about the Rubble, while you're taking questions.
A lot of stuff there has just enough description to be baffling, not
enough to be useful.
While reading the Aeneid I came across a reference to a Horn Gate,
which Aeneas used to get out of the Underworld. Any resemblance to
the Gloranthan Horn Gate?
--Newton
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From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Prax Questions
Message-ID: <01H5KNKEQSBC96VO8X@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 21 Nov 93 21:08:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2386
David:
>1. How hated _are_ horses? (Would a band of Praxians attack someone just
>because he rode a horse?)
Yes! (Unless there's more of you than them, you're under the walls of
Pavis, or whatever)
2. If Praxians see someone riding their herd animal, do they automatically
assume it was stolen?
The Bison Tribe believe that all bison in the world belong to them as
a natural right, which gives them free reign to take bison from anyone.
Of course, just like the above question, it all depends on numbers and
the situation. A band of bison riders might ask for a "present" in
return for letting you use one of their bison, if they are otherwise
well-disposed to you.
>4. What keeps Praxians in Prax? Is it the Guardian Hills? (The Six Sisters,
>seen in Troll Realms, are supposed to contain wards set up by the
>Grazers... But they don't seem to have stopped Argrath's allies, or the
>raids on Tarsh during the interregnum.) Is it the inhabitants? I imagine
>that Sartar is more fertile and full of good grazing, and the Praxians
>would want to use it.
The Praxian plains and the wastes (once you get past Vulture's Country)
contain sufficient grazing for the tribes. There would be two reasons
why the Praxians don't move into Sartar/Dragon Pass. First, the terrain
and climate does not suit their nomadic way of life, and second, it's better
just to ride in and out of place on periodic raids, taking stuff you
can't get in Prax (ie. metals, luxury goods) than trying to take over
the place permanently. Jaldon Toothmaker occasionally appears to lead the
Praxians in to Dragon Pass on great raids, but they are not mass migrations.
A mass migration might take place if something happens to the nomads in
their homeland (just like the various barbarian movements in
the dark ages), but the nomads seem more likely to move east into the
unpopulated Wastes than try to crack the tough nut that is Sartar.
---------------------
From: jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
Subject: scrums, shields, fazzur, you name it
Message-ID: <9311210812.AA05379@hp0.zycor.lgc.com>
Date: 21 Nov 93 08:12:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2387
charles gregory fried in X-RQ-ID: 2325
>> - Once combat was engaged, it was VERY difficult to perform any maneuvers
>> with a hoplite phalanx. The general's role and skill would come into play
>> only before the troops met toe to toe.
The maneuver and tactics are quite intricate, actually. Crush or be crushed.
>> - Pushing was very important. (And so those shield push games among the
>> Yelmalions are very apposite.) The idea seems to be that the first rank
cf. Nick's very appropriate scrum comments.
>> tries to wound and/or knock over the opponents, allowing the whole phalanx to
>> rush forward. It is then the job of the back ranks to finish off the downed
>> foes. A very specific technology evolved for this purpose: the butt-spike.
if trampling didn't already do enough.
Phalanx Shields:
>> What all this implies for RQ, I'm not sure, except that the rules
>> developed for individual combat must become irrelevant in certain
>> massed combat situations -- realism would not be served by having
>> every member of a phalanx roll his Attack and Parry %. Also, a really
Attack maybe, parry, no way. The shields were meant to be used as a wall,
and as plows, not for knocking aside single blows.
RQ Shields:
charles gregory fried in X-RQ-ID: 2367
>> The trad-off for using the shield as I described is that you cannot parry
>> blows aimed at on landing on areas not covered by the shield. The shield
>> just counts as extra armor for those areas covered, provided you make a
I'd prefer a more GURPS-like mechanic, here. In GURPS, a shield adds "passive
defense" to several locations, automatically. It is also usable for blocking
blows. The problem with RQ armor *and shields* is that the system only takes
penetration resistance into account, not deflection ability.
Nick Brooke in X-RQ-ID: 2329
>> because of the wider territories claimed by city-states in the late Archaic
>> and early Classical periods (meaning the army needs to march further, thus
>> carry less weight)? From Victor Davis Hanson:
>> ...
>> : authors have been reluctant to discuss the disadvantages of hoplite
>> : arms and armour, but they were many. Heavy, uncomfortable, unbearably
>> : hot, the panoply was especially poorly suited for the Mediterranean
This is also part of the reason the open-faced helm, and helms with hinged
cheek pieces replaced the more closed single-piece ones. Armor left the
legs and arms first, then the vital areas where greater mobility was a must.
Remember also that much of the role of the leg armor was to ward off missiles,
a task easily accomplished by a cloth hung from the bottom of the shield.
>> : been poorly trained, and the scythe-wheeled chariots were a complete
>> : fiasco, provoking the Romans to open laughter and ironical applause.
This is a lovely image. You often don't think of how the troops feel in a
battle ( other than good morale, bad morale, routed, etc. ).
Joerg Baumgartner in X-RQ-ID: 2356
>> Whitewall had fallen when Fazzur was relieved from the command, and the
>> Cradle incident cost Sor-eel's post, not Fazzur's.
But, as Sandy pointed out, Sor-Eel was one of Fazzur's cronies and supporters.
Though, as you pointed out, previous complaining may have cost Fazzur.
>> [...] The emperor was especially disapointed by events in Kethaela,
>> which ruined one of his parties. The command sought a scapegoat, and
>> Fazzur was relieved from his command."
Apparently Tatius and his cronies offered Fazzur up as a sacrifice, got him
cashiered, and took over. They got it in the end, though.
>> So it was Euglyptus the Fat who was tricked by the Pharaoh's (exotic,
>> in DP terms) magic.
Looks like.
Nick Brooke in X-RQ-ID: 2378
>> 50 x 2 (bright/dark Lunar balance) x 10 (residual DH influence) = 1000.
Makes the accounting easier, as well. A legion is a legion is a ...
>> Tarshite unit -- as you'd expect, Heartland officers often abbreviate and
>> refer to their Native allies as "'shite troops".
Are you sure about that 'e'?
>> BTW, Chris Gidlow brought round a copy of Chaosium's Credo! yesterday, and
>> it looks absolutely beautiful! I am delighted with the production effort
>> that went into making this version of the game, and have high hopes that it
>> will be appropriately recognised by the vast gaming public out there...
>>
>> (Hint: This Means You)
XO@#! I've been buggin the hell out of a couple of local stores for them to call
me as soon as it gets in. Dead silence as yet. Grrr.
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 2359
>> Note that, according to DP, if the Bat is killed the Emperor has to
>> go through a lengthy (year-long?) ritual to recover it. So it's not
>> much of a victory. I suggest that your PCs instead devote their
Requiring a year to replace, and probably requiring a fair portion of the
Emperor's time during that year is "not much of a victory"?
I'd say it would get his attention pretty effectively, of course, your
other suggestions (re: killing cult members) would cause much greater
harm, and would be *possible*.
Nick Brooke in X-RQ-ID: 2370
>> Geoff Gunner mourns his Wyrm:
>> > I'll get that bugger Halgrim yet, just see if I don't ...
>>
>> Two words in your ear: "Grendel's Mother". There's something even nastier,
>> even more malevolent out there -- and she's *really* pissed at Halgrim.
A couple of questions:
1. Are Wyrms not degenerate forms of Dragon(newt)s? Could he not "come back"?
2. Can Dragonewts & Co. call for Divine Intervention?
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 2326
>> Also Malia initiates, as a member of a "Dangerous" cult, must be
>> licensed. This also applies to other dangerous cults such as Humakt
>> and Issaries (the former because their members can have geases
>> forcing them to distrust certain races or cults; the latter because
Would Yelmalions have to get licenses as well?
>> I know for a fact that there is at least one Lunar dynasty of nobles
>> who traditionally train bisons to ride. However, they're good Lunars,
>> and only the Irrippi Ontor sages in town know why that dynasty has
>> that custom. I'm sure there are other traces of such activity.
Which town/city?
>> Peter Michaels sez:
>> > please do tell why Praxpack is probably-not-going-to-be-published.
>>
>> Maybe it WILL be published. It's just that I haven't heard any word
>> on it for a long time. I.e., have not received back the manuscript so
>> I can finish it up, stuff like that. I guess I just assumed AH had
>> lost interest in it. Myself, I'd love to see it in print.
This ought to be on someone's list of things to publish. If not Avalon
Hill's, then maybe Reaching Moon Megacorp or RQ Adventures should consider
it.
Clark Hobbie-x7513 in X-RQ-ID: 2363
>> I am looking for comments from other people's experience: have you
>> found it difficult to find RQ stuff. If yes have you talked to store
Store owners don't stock it, or don't stock it in a particularly sell-able
way ( i.e. tucked in the back, spines out, underneath Mythus, ... ).
This seems too have changed a very little since the new stuff has come out.
Special orders come through as rapidly as anything eelse, so it doesn't seem
that the problem lies with the distributors.
Colin Watson in X-RQ-ID: 2371
>> nice in a sourcebook. Ah, a sourcebook for each cult... I'll keep dreaming.
I'd take a sourcebook for each pantheon, or each culture, or anything...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| john_medway@zycor.lgc.com | Landmark Graphics Corp | 512.292.2325 |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: sullivam@mlc.lib.mi.us (Mark Sullivan -- Michigan Library Consortium)
Subject: Military Organization
Message-ID:
Date: 21 Nov 93 07:02:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2388
(Nick Brooke) Re: Mythic Military
__________________
> John Medway asked:
>>> rounding it after reaching the 7x7 basic 'platoon':
>>> add one officer, and you can start counting in fifties.
>>> Lunar culture is still very Dara Happan
>> But what mythic significance translates the units of
>> 50 into 1000 (or thereabouts)?
> 50 x 2 (bright/dark Lunar balance) x 10 (residual DH
> influence) = 1000.
> This would mean that each 50-man platoon was paired with
> another for what-ever reasons spring to mind...
In Sun County, which I just picked up, states on page 45:
"Templar units are organized into 64-man units called
'squares' or 'sixty-fours' like the Lunar armies."
This quote implies that the Lunar Army uses 64 man units.
Is there any particular reason to create a different model
for the Lunar Army?
A related question, since the Sun Dome Temple organization seems
based on (similar to) the Macedonian phalanx organization of
file = 16 men
4 files = platoons of 64 men (tetrarchia/Tetrarch)
it seems that this similarity would carry on to larger units.
2 platoons = company of 128 men (taxiarchia/Taxiarch)
2 companies = big company of 256 men (sytagma/Sytagmatarch)
4 of these = regiment of 1024 men (chiliarchia/Chiliarch)
4 regiments = phalanx of 4096 men
(Macedonian unit name/commander's rank in parentheses.)
Seems like the regiment (chiliarchia) is the right size for
a Dragon Pass game Lunar regiment. If the Sun County Templar
organization is typical of traditional Yelmic military i.e.
Dara Happan organization, perhaps the Lunar Army (with its Dara
Happan influence) has this same organization. The military mind
is typically very traditional and its hard to see a change in
the army structure just to get a seven in the TOE. If the army
structure is working (i.e. Dara Happan style hopolites) why
mess with it?
> I reiterate my question of a few days ago: does anyone
> know how living near (rich, fertile) Peloria has changed
> the Sable Tribe of the Hungry Plateau? Especially since
> they became rulers of Kostaddi and took over the City of
> Two Towers.
Maybe they have become dichotomous. Wealthy, decadent rulers
inundated with the luxuries of empire ruling from the City
of Two Towers while they maintain a core of tough, hardened
warrior/herders on top of the Hungry Plateau. The HPers serve
as soldiers acquiring wages to send home (from which the ruling
nobility takes a healthy cut, oops just taxes). The Kostaddi
rulers may use the HPers as a sort of Praetorian guard (actually
maybe more of a Varangian guard) to maintain their control of
the lowland farmland.
The rulers control the HPers through two means:
1) by the use of bribes, I mean gifts, to the HP clan chiefs
consisting of the usual gold, jewelry, et al along with
arms, armor, and foodstuffs.
2) by controlling the strategic location of Two Towers they
have a lock on trade and can shut off the transport of food
which the HPers population has grown to need.
All this is merely speculation on my part and has no imprimature.
A related question. Not having the TotRM article on Humakt (see whine
below), I was paging through my copy of Cult of Prax and I came across:
: The Humakti (as they are called) have a rigid intra-temple structure.
: They are organized along military lines with the Rune Lord or High
: Priest called Captain, and ten Priests or Lords called Centurions,
: each Centurion has up to ten Initiates or Lay Members called sergeants.
Question: Whose military lines does this derive from. It sounds much more
organized than traditional Orlanthi culture. Is it a relic of the EWF or
a localized Pavic construct? Is this apparently tens based structure the
basis for a Lunar decimal army (via Yanafal Tarnils)? It doesn't seem to
me to be very feudal/knightly so I don't know if it fits with Carmanian
Humakt/Yanafal Tarnils worship.
Nick also mentioned an article in TotRM and said:
> I hope we can find some way to reprint it one of these days...
YES! YES! YES! I have just sent off my check for a subscription
but I am told that virtually all the back issues are unavailable.
This must be fixed. How can Gloranthan addicts who did not know
to subscribe early enough catch up. Must we be cursed to remain
in unenlightened ignorance?
[Hysterical Nick Brooke convert to TotRM mode off.]
* Mark Sullivan *
---------------------
From: JLROGERS@utkvx.utk.edu (Jim Rogers)
Subject: Questions, Questions
Message-ID: <01H5L9FP3W0I8ZFHHG@utkvx.utk.edu>
Date: 21 Nov 93 16:06:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2389
RQ Gang,
The level (and volume) of the Daily has taken great strides lately,
encouraging me to write in with questions / comments. Thanks in advance
for the replies.
(1) (To Sandy P. esp.) Though I've really enjoyed the Pamaltela
stuff (more, more), I've got a general question about Prax: Any chance
about seeing postings on the minor tribes of Prax - Zebra Riders,
Bolo-Lizard Riders, Unicorn Riders, Agimori, Ostrich Riders (joke?), etc.?
(2) (To all you GMs, and pundits, and rules-lawyers) I tried this
once before, but persist. GoG states that only a few cults give Lords the
1d10 Divine Intervention - Humakt, Kyger Litor, Orlanth, Seven Mothers,
Uleria [why do they have Lords?], Yelm, Yemalio, Zorak Zoran. I can't see
the rhyme or reason for this, and is a change from all cults advantage to
Lords in RQ2. Any explanations? Justifications? Do you GM with this, or
change?
(3) (RQ collectors) A friend of mine can lay his hands on back
issues of White Dwarf Mag. He's willing to buy the issues that have RQ
stuff in them, if he only had a list of which issues had RQ stuff. I know
that there was a listing of RQ articles from another mag. (White Wolf?) a
couple of days ago. My buddy might be willing to donate his new collection
to the RQ Con auction for this info.
End of Questions.
After reading some of the posts, I'd like to encourage all us
RQ-philes to subscribe to _Tales of the Reaching Moon_ . The tribal map of
Sartar in Issue # 6, despite the cryptic "missing tribe", is a must for the
classic campaign setting. The much expected Pamaltela issue from MOB and
the Aussies will hopefully stir things up here about that neglected part of
Glorantha (OK, so is Kralorela, and other places too!). For N. America, contact
David Gadbois via gadbois@cs.utexas.edu. Cost just went up to $4.00, and
worth every one.
End of Advert.
Interesting to read that some other RQ gangs planned to do in the
Crimson Bat. After all, if the assassins can do it in DP, someone must be
able to. Our plan included Seal Wound, Berserker, and Teleportation. Many
great fumble stories also, but the funniest involved one prospective Storm
Khan and two encounters with Rock Lizards - both times he was criticalled
in the right leg. Fearless with Vampires, Broos, and even Gorp, he would
cower in fear at anything that looked like a Rock Lizard.
Thanks, and I'll go back to reading again.
Jim R.
---------------------
From: sullivam@mlc.lib.mi.us (Mark Sullivan -- Michigan Library Consortium)
Subject: The Block and Wintertop
Message-ID:
Date: 21 Nov 93 19:52:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2390
While poring over my recently purchased copy of River of Cradles I noticed
on the Common Knowledge section of the RoC map -
The Block
This giant rectilinear block of rock, 500m on a side and 2km tall...
This would seem not to overshadow earthly mountains, but it still ought to
be seen from pretty far off.
If it is two kilometers tall it doesn't compare with Wintertop's 12
(please say it's a typo) kilometers [from p61 of Genertela Book, GoG]. I
mean just how high *is* the atmosphere? That there middle air must go up
pretty damn high or those Shakers are breathing with oxygen tanks.
Now if the Block casts a shadow that blocks the Red Moon's glow it would
seem that the umbra would lie across the Devil's Marsh. What can we
deduce, if anything, from this? Maybe Lunar priests are no more likely
than anyone else to want to visit the Marsh?
* Mark Sullivan *
---------------------