From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 23 Nov 1993, part 1
Message-ID:
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <9311222241.AA12317@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 22 Nov 93 10:41:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2400
Sandy Petersen here. Howdy, all! I'm back after a brief trip to
Baltimore, in which I helped direct an American-style LARP
(live-action roleplaying game).
VINGA: I had thought that she was just a subcult of Orlanth
Adventurous. I believe her to be a distinct divine being in herself,
much like Orlanth's other subcults (Lightning Boy, frex). She may
also be an old Sartarite version of Babeester Gor (also sometimes
portrayed as red-headed).
Sam Phillips sez:
> I vote for a "Lets help the female players" issue of TotRM. We
>could try to work out how all the female adventurers and Heroes fit
>into Glorantha and its cults.
I feel that Glorantha is probably the most accepting of females of
any roleplaying world made. Look at the various pantheons and arrays
in GoG.
Chaos: Females are equal or superior to males in every cult except
for Thed, since broos are almost all male.
Dwarf: dwarfs are usually portrayed as male, but there is nothing in
their cold, soulless culture to forbid females any aspect of their
magic or society. My personal belief is that dwarfs come in both male
and female forms but that humans generally can't tell 'em apart.
Elf: females are, if anything, better off than males.
Hsunchen: acceptance of female leadership and warriors may depend on
the tribe, but the cults don't discriminate, since all tribal members
belong.
Kralorela: Dragon Magic, since it originates from basically sexless
beings, doesn't discriminate. The mock-Chinese society probably is
oppressive to some degree, but there are a number of more-or-less
socially acceptable religions designed for folks dissatisfied with
normal society -- Gorgorma and Path of Immanent Mastery, frex.
Lunar: as with Elf, females are not only wholly accepted, but most of
the Lunar religions worship female gods. Annilla, Arachne Solara,
Deezola, Etyries, Hon-Eel, Jakaleel, the river goddess of the mighty
Oslir, Teelo Norri, Yara Aranis, and the Red Goddess herself are all
female-oriented. Nysalor and the Young Elementals are pretty-much
sexless. Only Danfive Xaron, Irrippi Ontor, and Yanafal Tarnils are
unequivocably male, and all three obviously accept female membership.
Malkioni: these are a bit male-oriented. At one time, Greg and I felt
that they actually had five different classes of society -- the
"normal" four, plus a special one for all women. We no longer hold to
this opinion (see GoG), though the Brithini might still do this.
Certainly women can belong to any rank of society, should they be
born within it (Rokari) or earn it (Hrestoli). However, the mores of
Malkioni society may tend to suppress adventurous women to some
degree.
Mermen: who cares? (But females aren't oppressed in the two mammalian
types).
Orlanth: These guys have tons of outlets for females. Not only is
there an entire earth pantheon effectively barred to men, but none of
the male-oriented cults exclude women. Not even Orlanth or Storm
Bull.
Pamalt: women have no problem here, except that they can't be chiefs.
But since they control the chiefs this is usually okay.
Praxian: Waha is one of the few men-only religions of Glorantha. But
the existence of Ancestor Worship, Storm Bull, Eiritha (not too
exciting, I know), and raw shamanism help out.
Troll: all ruled by women.
Yelm: the most male-dominated culture in Glorantha. Yet even they
have Lodril and Gorgorma as outlets.
Sandy Petersen said:
>The intent when Sunspear was written up was that ALL magic is
>ineffective vs. Sunspear. It's a very special spell, and ignores all
>them things you mentioned. Perhaps magic designed specially for use
>vs. fire/sky spells might have an effect (like Suppress Aether), if
>the GM decides.
Dave Dunham replies:
>This kind of destroys the premise of Griffin Island. Wouldn't Hilme
>priest Taklong Woodheart have long ago hit the evil sorcerer Halcyon
>var Enkorth with a big Sunspear?
Griffin Island is already fatally flawed, if simply killing Halcyon
destroys the entire premise. Surely Taklong W. can kill Halcyon
dozens of ways besides expending a fat 3-point spell that requires a
sunny day and high die roll to nail the bad guy?
I said:
>The Law Rune wasn't in RQ2. It is not a common Theyalan Rune
Dave Dunham replied:
>But it's one of Lhankor Mhy's runes... Orlanth's Lawspeaker isn't
>_that_ uncommon
Among the less-educated or traditional Orlanthi, the Stasis Rune
substitutes for the Law Rune. The more-perceptive God Learners
perceived the difference, and introduced the Malkioni Rune of Law to
the Theyalan culture.
>How are the Lunars ruining their crops?
I think it's a secret, so can't put it on the net, but it has nothing
to do with Dendara. Remind me at RQ-Con.
Richard C. Staats puzzles:
>Please forgive my ignorance, but what type of creature is a boggle?
It is an entity created by Ratslaff, the Celestial Court
representative of Disorder. As such, they are living representatives
of Disorder, even as Dehori represent Darkness, and Ice Demons
represent Cold. They are generally gray-skinned with spindly, often
multiple, arms and legs, and long narrow noses. They're basically
mischievous monsters (think "bogles" = "boggles"). Almost all of them
were wiped out in the first incursion of Chaos, as they were the
front-line troops in that battle. A few of them are left, hiding in
the dark and distant corners of the world. There's a castle of them
atop the Plateau of Statues, for instance (one reason that the plains
to the east are called the Demon Lands by the Praxians).
You didn't seem 'em in Creatures of Glorantha because they're
immortal-type entities. More Heroquest than Runequest. My players met
the ones atop the Plateau, and now hate them to pieces.
re: SUNSPEAR
There's plenty of ways to defend against Sunspear. The stupid thing
only does 4d6 damage, after all. If you're wearing 5-point+ armor,
it's highly unlikely to kill an adult human. It doesn't cancel out
Armoring Enchantments. A simple Vigor or Enhance Constitution will up
your HPs enough to make you safe from death. The spell can't be used
indoors or on cloudy days. For most cults, it's one-use, which sort
of limits its ubiquity. Since the caster's got to see you, a Darkwall
makes you safe from him.
re: Crimson Bat
Remember, kill the priests and the Bat goes berserk. An uncontrolled
Bat is worse than useless to the Lunars. The first Orlanthi victory
at Whitewall was accomplished in this manner -- the Orlanth got
Counter Chaos so their spells would work, then Teleported to his
back, killed his priests (easy meat for Wind Lords and Storm Khans),
and teleported off again. The Bat went nuts, ate some of the Lunar
besieging army, and flew off. The Bat had been used to suppress
Starbrow's Rebellion with notable success, but after the fiasco at
Whitewall, I don't think it was brought back into Dragon Pass to
suppress rebellion until the time of the Hero Wars.
Colin Watson wonders:
>I wonder what a God tied to both the Law *and* Chaos runes would be
>like?
Hmm. How about Ompalam? Technically, he's not chaotic, but neither is
Malia. Or how about Urrquong, guardian of the gate of Chaos?
JALDON TOOTHMAKER doesn't ride a horse, he rides a "steed" named
Home. IMO it is the only representative of its type in the whole of
Glorantha.
Johnjmedway asks:
>1. Are Wyrms not degenerate forms of Dragon(newt)s? Could he not
>"come back" [from the dead]?
If he'd been adopted into the Dragonewt religion. But most aren't.
Also, each successive reincarnation he loses a little more of his
"Wyrmness" and alters into another sort of being (not necessarily a
dragonewt, but a parallel line of evolution).
>2. Can Dragonewts & Co. call for Divine Intervention?
Not exactly. Because of the way in which their magic works, however,
it is sometimes confused with DI by ignorant non-Dragonewts.
>> Also Malia initiates, as a member of a "Dangerous" cult, must be
>> licensed. This also applies to other dangerous cults such as
>>Humakt and Issaries (the former because their members can have
>>geases forcing them to distrust certain races or cults;
>Would Yelmalions have to get licenses as well?
No. The Lunars are no more consistent or fair than any other huge
bureaucracy, and the fact that the Yelmalions are courted as allies,
while Issaries and Humakt are known potential foes weighs heavy in
Lunar decision-making.
Mark Sullivan sez:
: The Humakti (as they are called) have a rigid intra-temple
:structure. They are organized along military lines with the Rune
:Lord or High Priest called Captain, and ten Priests or Lords called
:Centurions, each Centurion has up to ten Initiates or Lay Members
:called sergeants. [quote from CoP]
>Question: Whose military lines does this derive from. It sounds
>much more organized than traditional Orlanthi culture. Is it a
>relic of the EWF or a localized Pavic construct?
Both, kind of. It is a relic of the EWF, and Pavis (also a relic of
the EWF) continues the custom. This is also common in Kethaela, but
not so strictly in wilder areas such as Dragon Pass or Brolia. Also,
where the Humakt temple does not represent a military unit (usually
of mercenaries) the structure isn't so strict.
Jim Rogers asks:
> (1) (To Sandy P. esp.) Though I've really enjoyed the Pamaltela
>stuff (more, more), I've got a general question about Prax: Any
>chance about seeing postings on the minor tribes of Prax - Zebra
>Riders, Bolo-Lizard Riders, Unicorn Riders, Agimori, Ostrich Riders
>(joke?), etc.?
Sure. Which one do you want first?
>(2) (To all you GMs, and pundits, and rules-lawyers) I tried this
>once before, but persist. GoG states that only a few cults give
>Lords the 1d10 Divine Intervention - Humakt, Kyger Litor, Orlanth,
>Seven Mothers, Uleria [why do they have Lords?], Yelm, Yemalio,
>Zorak Zoran. I can't see the rhyme or reason for this, and is a
>change from all cults advantage to Lords in RQ2. Any explanations?
>Justifications? Do you GM with this, or change?
Since I'm responsible for the change, I guess I'd better speak up.
There's really two reasons behind this. First, the Glorantha reason
is that it's a lot harder to become a Rune Lord than a Rune Priest.
They're theoretically expected to be close to their deity, and hence
the DI. The game rule reason for it is that not only is it tough to
become a Rune Lord, but once you're one, you generally get crappier
magic than priests or acolytes. The DI makes up for this. I always
play with this rule. It's also a way to distinguish between important
cults and weeny cults (like Krarsht).
re: The Block and Wintertop
I'm pleased to learn that the Block is 2 km tall and 500m on a side.
Can any of the math wizards tell us how far away it could be seen on
Earth?
Wintertop is a magic mountain, the tallest in the world. Though it
may normally be only 4000m tall, I betcha it's taller at certain
times of the year or when you're looking at it the right way.
---------------------
From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: shields
Message-ID:
Date: 22 Nov 93 10:56:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2391
Greg Fried here.
Someone (John?) asked about shield designs. What I did for this one was to
go to the library and get out some books on Greek and Near East art. A lot
of the Greek vase paintings have very lovely, simple designs that you can
execute quite nicely on a miniature's shield. These designs can be taken
from actual sdepictions of shields, or from other designs. My favorite so
far is a dophin that I pulled off pretty well. There are some fantastic bull
designs to be found. Others include Gorgon's head (the Greek gorgon, not
AD&D!), crabs, birds, cups... try it!
---------------------
From: james@maths.exeter.ac.uk
Subject: Credo!
Message-ID: <12586.9311221212@maths.exeter.ac.uk>
Date: 22 Nov 93 12:12:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2392
>> BTW, Chris Gidlow brought round a copy of Chaosium's Credo! yesterday, and
>> it looks absolutely beautiful! I am delighted with the production effort
>> that went into making this version of the game, and have high hopes that it
>> will be appropriately recognised by the vast gaming public out there...
>>
>> (Hint: This Means You)
Credo is a brilliant game and no home should be without one!
--
James Andrews, Computer Development Officer, Exeter University Maths Dept
---------------------
From: mabeyke@batman.b11.ingr.com (boris)
Subject: Re: Attempts on the Bat!
Message-ID: <199311221631.AA14316@batman.b11.ingr.com>
Date: 22 Nov 93 16:31:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2393
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
JLROGERS@utkvx.utk.edu (Jim Rogers) said:
> Interesting to read that some other RQ gangs planned to do in the
> Crimson Bat. After all, if the assassins can do it in DP, someone must be
> able to. Our plan included Seal Wound, Berserker, and Teleportation.
My group has several PCs who are motivated to batocide, and some
speculation about how. My favorite so far is one Orlanthi who is planning
to cross initiate into the Eurmal cult and (eventually) sacrifice for 250+
points of Swallow, and enough Teleport to get in range. As this will take
many years, I see no reason not to encourage such silliness.
How many tons of Bromo he'll need afterwards, I haven't decided.
(*) ZZ [] (.) @ e K| o8- |> oK <>< )o 3 8 <|
Boris
|><| +- (| >- .: K * =|= <- (O) ( ) (o) (|) X-
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Boggles, Draconic DI, misc
Message-ID:
Date: 22 Nov 93 17:26:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2394
Newton Hughes in X-RQ-ID: 2385
>Boggles: a Boggle is a disorder spirit. Beyond that all I know is
>(others') apparently unofficial speculations. There apparently is a
>strong resemblance to Toon characters.
Boggles are mentioned in the Prosopaedia with Ratslaff and Tylenea:
Ratslaff:
"... he once flatulated with a tremendous roar and out popped the
boggles, cosmic mice which made littlle poo-poos all across the vault
of heaven, which nibbled upon the Veil of Mystery, and which once so
frightened a pregnant Mother Mammal that she gave birth to that utterly
unbelievable creature called Camel.
Uleria befriended these creatures and, with the disorderly nature of
the boggles, allowed them to stand against the initial onrush of chaos
(even though the boggles themselves were nearly eliminated) so that the
remaining gods could better prepare themselves to defend the world."
Tylenea:
"... after her attempt to tame, through flattery and false promises,
the Boggles - those cosmic mice extruded by Ratslaff from cosmic dung."
I always viewed them similar to the Tribbles (sp?) in one of the old
Star Trek series, cute and innocent looking furballs which make
themselves a great nuisance.
>About Jaldon Toothmaker: He was born in a bison rider's tent, accord-
>ing to the Pavis book. What's he doing riding a horse (albeit skeletal)
>and leading Pol-Joni in Dragon Pass?
It would be the first honred horse I have seen. The drawing on the DP
counter (enlarged on p.15) shows a horned skeletal head for "his steed
called Home". Steed doesn't mean horse, but mount, doesn't it?
John Medway in X-RQ-ID: 2387
>RQ Shields:
>charles gregory fried in X-RQ-ID: 2367
>> The trad-off for using the shield as I described is that you cannot parry
>> blows aimed at on landing on areas not covered by the shield. The shield
>> just counts as extra armor for those areas covered, provided you make a
>I'd prefer a more GURPS-like mechanic, here. In GURPS, a shield adds "passive
>defense" to several locations, automatically. It is also usable for blocking
>blows. The problem with RQ armor *and shields* is that the system only takes
>penetration resistance into account, not deflection ability.
Do you have a practical rules suggestion? (I'd be interested in some
article for Free INT...)
Replying to Nick's phalanx comments:
>Remember also that much of the role of the leg armor was to ward off missiles,
>a task easily accomplished by a cloth hung from the bottom of the shield.
Fair enough against other phalanxes, I'd guess, but how about thos
crazed barbarians and their furor? Even if you stand in the middle of
the phalanx and have buddies to the left and right, would these in any
way prevent that longsword-swinging naked madman from cutting your legs
off below your shield?
Me quoting KoS:
>> [...] The emperor was especially disapointed by events in Kethaela,
>> which ruined one of his parties. The command sought a scapegoat, and
>> Fazzur was relieved from his command."
>Apparently Tatius and his cronies offered Fazzur up as a sacrifice, got him
>cashiered, and took over. They got it in the end, though.
Genertela Book adds in that Fazzur never met Bellex Maximus, the
Imperial Overlord, in person. I'd guess that Tatius did...
BTW, Sartar will see Fazzur once again: In 1625 he'll lead the Tarshite
troops at Dangerford against Kallyr, but will be defeated. Afterwards
he seems to build up his household might within Tarsh and to train his
followers, the Fazzurites which seem to think little of Lunar politics
- at least they support Sartar and counter the truly imperial
Phargentites.
Oh, and he's definitely a Rune Lord (of Yanafal Tarnils). This to
bolster my argument in a bygone discussion about the frequency of Rune
Lord in "civic" official positions.
>Nick Brooke in X-RQ-ID: 2370
>> Geoff Gunner mourns his Wyrm:
>>> I'll get that bugger Halgrim yet, just see if I don't ...
>> Two words in your ear: "Grendel's Mother". There's something even nastier,
>> even more malevolent out there -- and she's *really* pissed at Halgrim.
>A couple of questions:
>1. Are Wyrms not degenerate forms of Dragon(newt)s? Could he not "come back"?
No. Thats the point of calling them degenerate. See the dragonewt cameo
in Elder Secrets - that wyrm couldn't, at least.
>2. Can Dragonewts & Co. call for Divine Intervention?
Dragonewts wouldn't need to - they simply start their next cycle of
life from their egg. To do so the Inhuman King must be alive, though -
this makes that look like sort of limited, but guaranteed divine
intervention.
Wyrms can - if they belong to an appropriate cult, that is. See Scholar
Wyrm for an example of initiates among draconic creatures. The less
intelligent draconic races (wyverns, dinosaurs) probably call upon
Hykim and Mikyh - after all these are said to be the draconic ancestors
of beasts.
>Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 2326
>> Also Malia initiates, as a member of a "Dangerous" cult, must be
>> licensed. This also applies to other dangerous cults such as Humakt
>> and Issaries (the former because their members can have geases
>> forcing them to distrust certain races or cults; the latter because
>Would Yelmalions have to get licenses as well?
The only Yelmalio geas likely to become troublesome is "Never let an
elf suffer needlessly". Any Yelmalio units close to the magicians that
called down the Moonburn upon Ryst?
>> Peter Michaels sez:
>>> please do tell why Praxpack is probably-not-going-to-be-published.
>> Maybe it WILL be published. It's just that I haven't heard any word
>> on it for a long time. I.e., have not received back the manuscript so
>> I can finish it up, stuff like that. I guess I just assumed AH had
>> lost interest in it. Myself, I'd love to see it in print.
>This ought to be on someone's list of things to publish. If not Avalon
>Hill's, then maybe Reaching Moon Megacorp or RQ Adventures should consider
>it.
The German RuneQuest-Society is considering to publish selfmade
scenario packs (in German language, though). The financial effort for
such a project is quite high, and one needs a professional distributor.
I don't know whether Reaching Moon Megacorp can manage a _regular_
output of sourcebooks and/or scenario packs. I know we have problems to
get the first thing started...
Mark Sullivan in X-RQ-ID: 2388
>A related question. Not having the TotRM article on Humakt (see whine
>below), I was paging through my copy of Cult of Prax and I came across:
>: The Humakti (as they are called) have a rigid intra-temple structure.
>: They are organized along military lines with the Rune Lord or High
>: Priest called Captain, and ten Priests or Lords called Centurions,
>: each Centurion has up to ten Initiates or Lay Members called sergeants.
>Question: Whose military lines does this derive from. It sounds much more
>organized than traditional Orlanthi culture. Is it a relic of the EWF or
>a localized Pavic construct? Is this apparently tens based structure the
>basis for a Lunar decimal army (via Yanafal Tarnils)? It doesn't seem to
>me to be very feudal/knightly so I don't know if it fits with Carmanian
>Humakt/Yanafal Tarnils worship.
Interesting point there: What (remaining) impact did the EWF have on
the Theyalan cults? Obduran the Flyer was the first dragonfriend with
regular cult ties, and his example was followed widely. (KoS)
Also EWF:
Where else than in the Dragon Pass Ruins, the Rubble and the City of
10,000 magicias in Aggar are we likely to find EWF artifacts? If any
adveturer party wants to play a part in the upcoming Hero Wars, quest
for these artifacts, and deliver them into the focus of fighting,
Sartar. Does that draconic school in Nochet (Glorantha Book p.19) stil
exist (at least in ruins)? Where is that Drolgard cult situated? Where
can one contact Orlaront Dragonfriend?
How frequent were Malkioni EWF members? One prominent early EWF
personality was Vistikos Left-eye, who was excommunicated by the
Malkioni bishopric of Nochet around 575 (Glorantha Book p.19). Are
there "independent" sorcerers left in Peloria, with EWF tradition
behind them?
And what kind of Malkioni were those from Nochet? How many were there?
How important was their bishop in city politics? How important is he
now? Is it Nochet where the highest religious authority of the Trader
Princes of Maniria lies, or is it Ralios?
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de