From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 30 Nov 1993, part 1
Message-ID:
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: heroquest
Message-ID:
Date: 29 Nov 93 09:14:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2474
Greg Fred here.
After a longish lull, I must GM my sporadic pseudo-Gloranthan campaign, and I
would very much appreciate feedback from any of you on something I have never
run before: a heroquest. This is a tricky one too, because the PCs are not
the initiators of the HQ -- they are being drawn into it as ritual
adversaries (as I have been led to understand is natural in HQing -- you
attract the appropriate opponent).
Understand in all of this that I have succeeded in keeping my players almost
ENTIRELY ignorant of Gloranthan material not IMMEDIATELY appropriate to their
characters (who are from a remote and primitive society to boot). They have
only heard oblique whispers about heroquesting. If it happens that they are
drawn into one, they will get their minds blown at first. And I WANT this to
happen! They SHOULD be amazed and that's what I'm shooting for in the
roleplaying.
So... skim through what follows if it interests you to give advice, and
advise me on making the HQing experience as good as possible!
The immediate plot background is that the PCs have journeyed far from their
remote tribe to seek aid from a tribe of Agimori. In my campaign, the
Agimori are even more clsoely tied to Lodril and volcanoes; my PCs freed a
volcano godling on their home island. The PCs found the Agimori near a great
volcano, Mt. Bathur, in a mountainous region. Bathur warms the land
immediately around him and allows the Agimori to survive in this clime.
While the PCs were negotiating with the Agimori, an army of trolls appeared
and challenged the Agimori to battle, on pain of surrenduring certain treaty
rights (this is all connected to previous plots the PCs have gotten embroiled
in, but this is not immediately important). The PCs were sent by the Agimori
to defend a strategic pass. While on duty at the pass, the PCs and their
Agimori companions saw saw strange blasts of snow and heard loud noises on a
nearby glacier. Unable to venture out into the cold, the Agimori sent the
PCs out to scout the glacier, known as Hrelk's Glacier. The PCs
discovered a band of trolls at some exotic task on the glacier, and
attacked. That's where we left it last time -- the PCs charging into
battle (against trolls, whom they've never fought before -- the dumb yahoos!).
This is what the PCs don't know: The trolls are led by a troll priest
of Himile. He is trying to create a gollem out of the ice of Hrelk's
Glacier to send against the Agimori, since he knows how vulnerable
they are to cold. He knows that he must heroquest to complete this
task, and he hopes to attract ritual opponents to himself in a way
that he can most effectively control.
The myth the troll wants to interact with is the following: before
Time, in the wars against chaos, Lodril sent one of his sons, Bathur,
up to the surface to scour a region clean of Chaos. Bathur did his
father's bidding and now stands sentinel over the evil he has subdued.
But during the Dawning, in the last epoch before the gods withdrew
from the world and so fought to secure as much as they could for their
own domains, the gos of Winter and Darkness encroached upon Bathur's
lands. The greatest of these was Hrelk, god of a mighty ice-river.
Bathur met Hrelk in combat and thwarted his advance. This is known as
Hrelk's Demise, and now Hrelk's Glacier halts above the Agimori lands,
melting into a lake known also as Hrelk's Demise.
The troll Himile priest does not (yet) dare attempt to reverse this
mythic fight: he just wants to intervene long enough to grab a piece
of Hrelk at the moment he shatters, and bring this piece back to
animate his ice gollem. (Yes, this is a smart troll! Himile is a
god of troll nobility as I play it.)
So, the players will be defeated in battle, but not killed (I will
probably have them rendered unconscious by an ice-blast breath weapon
the priest has acquired on a previous HQ). They will then be
deposited in an ice-cell prison within the glacier, as the troll
prepares his ritual.....
Elements of the ritual the troll needs to deal with:
1) Someone representing the forces of Heat and Mt. Bathur. Volcano
worshiping PCs will do just fine!
2) In the myth, a great, true dragon helps Bathur. The troll wants
to pre-empt this as far as possible. He has captured crested
dragonewt, and has tossed it into the cell with the PCs. He hopes
that if they enter the HQ, the draconic aspect of the story will be
limited to this insignificant representative of dragonkind!
3) In the myth, Hrelk's cause is undermined by some traitorous
trolls. The Himile priest als wants to pre-empt this aspect of the
story. A value trollkin, Zurthk, has been found guilty of egregious
uppityness. His penalty: to be thrown in with the humans as a ritual
opponent in the HQ.
Zurthk is crucial. He is intelligent and understands what is going
on. He knows the myth, and he knows what the priest is attempting to
do with him. He knows his only hope of surviving is to convince or
trick the PCs into entering into the HQ and then fulfill the ritual
function of betraying his own kind -- but the PCs must win. Then he
may escape to live as an outcast, outlaw trollkin. SO Zurthk is the
PC's ritual helper in the heroquest cycle, who must tempt them into
the quest. And the PCs do the same for him! BUt he must cope with
the natural suspicion the PCs will have for him. He will give only
enough information to keep things moving. Of course, the PCs should
wish to replicate the heoric deeds of the volcano godling!
I thought the crossing-over to the god/hero-plane might involve
leaping off a ledge into a blinding wall of falling, driven snow -- to
emerge from a huge snow-drift in the mythtime of the Dawning (David
Dunhams suggestion).
So does this sound right? What should I include? What kind of reward
could the ritual opponent in such a HQ earn? What would the troll's
weaknesses be? How can I make this most fun for the players, while at
the same time true to the spirit of heroquesting and RQ?
Thanks all!
-- GF out.
---------------------
From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: time-bending
Message-ID:
Date: 29 Nov 93 09:28:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2475
GF here again.
On the subject of time and prophesy in GLorantha,
I have a goddess in my campaign who DOES enable true prophesy; however, this
power is deemed Chaotic, for obvious reasons. Moreover, the power, as
available to cultists is very limited. Employed as a rune spell, it
allows you to intuit the actions of your opponent. In practical
terms, this means anyone employing this power gets to hear each of
their opponents' statements of intent for a round before undertaking
an action.
Anyone interested in a write-up of this goddess should write to me
personally.
GF out.
---------------------
From: fkiesche3@aol.com
Subject: Beginning RuneQuesters
Message-ID: <9311290832.tn68335@aol.com>
Date: 29 Nov 93 13:32:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2476
Greetings All:
I am seeking advice from the venerable RuneQuest sage types here on the
Digest.
I am (slowly, due to massive overtime problems) developing a RuneQuest
campaign. I am a beginning RQ Ref, the players that have expressed interest
are all novices to the RQ genre.
We will be playing a campaign set on Glorantha.
I'm looking for advice on how to start this whole shebang. What is the best
way to introduce the massive amounts of information available (background,
foreground, social, religion, etc.). How much of the grand scheme (upcoming
Hero Wars, etc.) should the players (as, most likely, inhabitants of the
small village to start) be aware of?
Think back, oh venerable sages. How did you start?
Maybe we can come up with something really good to submit to Avalon Hill. I
would like to see (as a future product) and good introductory pack for
beginning referees and players. One with a good concise background, lots of
nifty advice and some adventures that can hooked into existing (more
advanced) scenario packs.
Thanks for your help!
Fred Kiesche
(speaking for myself, not connected to any company with ties to the 'net!)
(FKiesche3@aol.com)
---------------------
From: J.Ditton@vme.glasgow.ac.uk
Subject: Lhankhor Mhy Heroquesting Proposed..
Message-ID: <29_Nov_93_13:49:45_A1034C@UK.AC.GLA.VME>
Date: 29 Nov 93 13:49:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2477
Hello from Sam Phillips
-----------------------
RE: Climbing and Fumbles.
Don't forget that a fumble doesn't mean death. A combat fumble rarely
results in death (in my experience - an enemy's critical is another
matter though :-). Getting caught up in a rope, getting your foot
stuck for 15mins, going the wrong way and having to re-route,
stumbling apon a nest of eagles (, being crapped on by a Gull :-) etc.
These are *all* fumbles but none would result in automatic death.
Why not just roll again to see how severe the fumble is. A critical
would mean you do something really dramatic ie fall 100 foot and get
caught in a tree by your cloak or something. A fumble-fumble would
be close to certain death .. but never 100% certain.
RE: Oxygen, magic and the way things work.
I agree that this is not a valid worry. Of *course* there is air on the
air god's most holy of sites. This is similar in many respects to the
arguments about how a dwarf sees in the dark. Does it matter? Do the
dwarves know? I highly doubt even the God Learners knew how humans see.
It can all be put down to magic in the end. And rightly so. We can make
an educated guess - "magical light spirits shoot back and forth between
the eyes and all the objects they percieve", "Whatever it is Yelm
has lots of it and The Red goddess has some of it - but only in shades
of red", "It is the *true* gift of seeing into the future", "It
requires a compromise between the Orlanth and Yelm for you cannot see
clearly underwater - Orlanth *is* involved" etc.. It is often unwise
to try to explain these things mechanically only god learners do that
- and you know what happens to them...
RE: Boggles..
I have never heard of these before. I am intrigued. Are these the same
as "bogey men"? ie "Be good child of the Boggles will get you?". Do
they only appear in a few places and in large numbers or are they
always around like a bad smell, breaking eggs and losing things etc..
RE: Catseye
This sounds like a Godlearner name. Why would any Yelmalion want to
associate himself with a cat. Wouldn't Hawkeye be better?
RE: A FAQ database. (Frequently asked questions).
Now here's a thing. Hands up all you who keep a copy of every daily.
I am guilty. I have a *large* pile of printouts. If I want to look
something up (and beleive me it happens a *lot*) it takes hours.
Especially as "I just have to read that article again.. and that one.
Oh! I'd forgotten about that".. etc
In my humblest opinion, some king of FAQ is needed. Lets face it the
daily has tackled all sorts of amazing and interesting topics which
when needed, a month later, are to all intensive purposes lost to the
aether. I propose ..
(Trumpets, stage left)
THE RQ ONLINE GLORANTHAN ENCYCLOPEDIA
-------------------------------------
(Here is a model that could be used)
Most of what appears in the daily seems to be a Question and Possible
answers session. Many of the answers are already in encyclopaedic form.
It wouldn't be a big step to take the answers and add them to an
encyclopaedia. We could even tackle them in order. Or assign letters
to individuals (ie Sandy could do all things 'P' ;-)
However, I do not propose that we collect large quotes from published
sources, rather that we channel speculation and odd snippets overheard
in public houses into one useful source. It wouldn't require much
maintanence. Each letter of the alphabet could be one file. We could
either post our answers to the daily to be collected or straight to it.
I don't *think* it would break copywrite.
Looking back at a few recent discussions ie The Block, Wintertop,
Boggles they would fit this format nicely. Being online it can also
easily be changed should it be found to hold any generally agreed
inacuracies. More than one answer could be given to one question
leaving the reader to decide on the truth.
What wouldn't be welcome (in my personal ideal model)? Anything
*just made up* ie "a nice cult I wrote last night". Rules additions
(unless linked to another entry ie Tides every 2d4-1 days), etc.
Anything large and meaty that would be better presented to TotRM.
Anything that is easy to find eg Sartar, Pavis, etc (Anything *new*
about them would be very welcome esp Sartar ;-). Wherever possible,
sources should be included to i) Help further reading and ii) Encourage
people who have found something new to go and spend more money on RQ.
However, some non-Gloranthan terms found on the daily could be written
up in glossary form eg :-
Tales of The Reaching Moon: (TotRM) *The* RQ fanzine.
...
contact: David Hall@, MOB etc
or
PenDragon Pass: An unofficial rules system combining Pendragon
Mechanics with a Gloranthan setting by D.Dunham, see TotRM #6.
or
TotRM: Abbrv. see Tales of the Reaching Moon.
or
Nick Brooke: Wise Oracle who speaks with the Gods. To summon see
the RQ daily ;-)
we could be as pretentious and pernickety as we want. We could argue
for days on what are valid answers. I could be lots of fun.
Would we need an Editor?.. probably. Any volunteers? I have seen
similar FAQ's and (lyrics) databases etc on other lists. Could it be
done with your setup Henk? (should the daily users wish it) or would
it have to be sent to another site. It wouldn't have to ftp-able ie
you could just "request A-F" to be mailed or similar.
I have proposed, any seconders?..
Cheers!
Sambo. x
Not Scotland but Sartar.
ps: Did my post about Vinga and/or the one about Sartar Clan
Populations get through. I have a feeling they were lost in (cyber)
space.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From: brandon@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov (Brandon Brylawski)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 25 Nov 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <9311291430.AA27150@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov>
Date: 29 Nov 93 14:30:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2478
To those discussing whether Wintertop would be climbable without oxygen
equipment or equivalent magical help:
Why are you assuming that the air gets thinner as you climb higher? The
entier space between Earth and Sky is Filled with Air since Umath separated
the two; it's no "thicker" down on the ground than it is at he sky dome.
It does get colder as you get further from Earth (presumably until you reach the
midpoint between Earth and Sky, after which it gets warmer from being closer
to Yelm). Remember, Glorantha is flat; Yelm rises and sets only because he has
to make his daily trip into Hell; Things fall down because they naturally
do, not because the Earth attracts them. The physical laws that rule this world
do not all have counterparts on Glorantha, nor should they.
Note that this is not to say that climbing Wintertop is easy or low-risk!
The cold, lack of food sources, slippery surfaces, high winds, and extreme
height of the journey make climbing the mountain a formidable and dangerous
undertaking, worse than Everest by far. Remember that Wintertop is
preternaturally steep, rising its 12 kilometers from a tiny base - it is more
like a spire than an Earthly mountain, and ascending it involves much more
climbing than walking.
Brandon
---------------------
From: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 29 Nov 1993, part 3
Message-ID: <01H5VSW8XJW28WW7PS@wharton.upenn.edu>
Date: 29 Nov 93 04:37:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2479
These occasional bounced dailies that repeat who knows how much information
in the daily are quite annoying. How about judicious use of Sender: and
Errors-to: lines in the header so that it doesn't happen so often?
-- Loren
---------------------
From: markg@engrg.uwo.ca (Mark Gagnon)
Subject: Receiving Divine Magic from "human sacrifice"
Message-ID: <9311291506.AA22314@engrg.uwo.ca>
Date: 29 Nov 93 15:06:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2480
I'm curious if anyone has considered the implications of sacrifice:
followers of the non-chaotic deities receive spells through sacrifice
of personal life force [POW]; I have read nothing indicating that
chaotic and evil deities would grant divine magic through the sacrifice
of a non-worshipper's life (and POW). Any comments on this idea? I
would think that a chaotic or evil deity would demand that sort of
sacrifice...
Mark Gagnon (markg@prism.engrg.uwo.ca) University of Western Ontario
=====================================================================
Ignus aurum probat, miseria fortes viros
Fire tests gold; adversity strong men
---------------------
From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 29 Nov 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <9311291626.AA04305@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 29 Nov 93 18:26:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2481
Oh, rats...
>---------------------
>From: "PTD::PTDCS2::MAILER-DAEMON@ptdcs2.intel.com"@PTD.intel.com
>Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
>Message-ID: <9311290244.utk29062@PTD.intel.com>
>Date: 29 Nov 93 02:44:19 GMT
>X-RQ-ID: 2471
> ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>421 ptdcs2 (smtp)... Deferred: Connection refused by ptdcs2
---------------------
From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <9311291621.AA03921@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 29 Nov 93 04:21:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2482
Graeme Willoughby asks:
>What defines Chaos?
Chaos is something that originates from outside the boundaries of
Glorantha, or which is partially such.
>when does a given creature become chaotic and register as such on
>appropriate senses and spells?
If a creature is "naturally" chaotic (i.e., comes from a chaos
species, such as broo, ogre, dragonsnail, etc.) then it registers as
Chaotic. Possession of a chaos feature is a sure sign of chaos, but
you can be chaotic without it. If you have a chaos feature, or have
ever had certain chaos spells cast upon you, then you have become
chaotic regardless of whether you are "naturally" chaotic. Also, if
you have become a Rune level (priest, acolyte, lord) of a cult
including the Chaos Rune, you are thereby Chaotic.
The following spells from Gods of Glorantha will cause the recipient
to become chaotic:
BAGOG: Ritual of Rebirth
HYKIM & MIKYH: Transform Self (only if tribal animal is chaotic)
KRARSHT: none
POCHARNGO: Corruption
PRIMAL CHAOS: Chaos Feature
RED GODDESS: none
SEVEN MOTHERS: Chaos Gift
THED: Rebirth of Chaos
TRIOLINA: Meld Form (if a chaos creature is used)
Other chaos spells cause you to register as chaotic only while the
spell is in effect (actually, the chaos in the spell is what's
registering, not you yourself).
In general, you can't become chaotic without taking a "voluntary"
step towards it. However, that step need not be very voluntary. In my
campaign, I state that your mp's failure to resist Pocharngo's
Corruption is prima facie evidence that you have taken that step
towards chaos. Greg Stafford has at times opined that you must be
actively willing to become Chaotic (but at other times has said other
things and in any case hasn't run a RQ campaign for many years to the
best of my knowledge, his Gloranthan interests now lying mainly in
novelizations).
>What makes a God Chaotic - does it have to be tied to the Chaos
>Rune?
Yes. Though some gods are "associated" with chaos without technically
being chaotic. Such as Malia and Seven Mothers.
>Why is Nysalor chaotic?
He was defined as chaotic by Arkat, and everyone agrees. Even the
Lunar Empire doesn't try to argue otherwise (except as sophistry
designed to fool ignorant barbarians).
Which deities are Illuminated?
All the Lunar deities are illuminated (note that the Seven Mothers,
as an artificial construct, technically has no "god" within it to be
chaotic). Humakt is thought by some to be illuminated, as is Chalana
Arroy and Uleria. Don't forget Arachne Solara, who devoured Kajabor.
Really, it's hard to say. A god can be illuminated, yet still take a
strong anti-chaos stance.
Colin Watson ponders:
>So the effects of Chaotic features are not magical? Likewise I
>thought most healing potions (those that heal Hit Points instantly)
>would count as Magic. No?
Chaos magic is magic. Chaos features are ways to cheat on the RQ
Rules, and are not necessarily magic. It's up to the gamemaster
whether a healing potion counts as Magic for the purposes of
violating the Humakti geas. If I felt mean, I'd probably say that an
"instant" potion was magic, but a slower-acting potion may not be.
TIME TRAVEL IN GLORANTHA: I stated that Gloranthan time travel is
only possible in going to the past.
Colin Watson correctly points out that we are all traveling forwards
in time naturally. I was referring, of course, to big jumps in time,
which are only possible by going into the Past. If your players go
into the past, they are stuck there, and cannot return to the future,
except by waiting. No paradoxes exist, because you can go right ahead
and "change" that future, which hasn't happened yet.
The Gods live in a Godtime which is the universe beyond time. In a
sense, it is the universe as it would be if it were still the
Godtime. They are pre-time, as it were. Things can happen to change
the Godtime, whereupon the Godtime is as if it had always been that
way (like the creation of the Red Moon's tower on the Godplane --
this is new, but now has always been there).
[I said]
>> general, our players are trained to yell out that they're casting
>> Protection (or whatever) when they're behind one of their friends
>> and casting a spell, so that he'll know to refrain from resisting.
[John Medway notes]
>Sounds like a good signal for the opposition to let the one who
>dropped his shields really have it, or do you let them selectively
>resist/allow spells? How does a target know the difference?
The player can tell whether the spell is coming from behind him or in
front of him, and can usually see the bad guy casting such a spell.
He'll know which one to let through. Also, if you call to the guy by
name, the enemy generally won't know which person you're talking to,
unless they know all your names. But if an enemy is sitting behind
you, and can cast his spell on the same strike rank, and knows your
name, I would let him zap you with a resistanceless Disruption.