From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
Organization: Lankhor Mhy and Associates
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 18 Dec 1993, part 1
Message-ID:
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: ANDERSJC@howdy.Princeton.EDU
Subject: Re: * list subscription request
Message-ID: <1A2D6995788@howdy.princeton.edu>
Date: 16 Dec 93 21:11:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2669
Could you please post the following on the list:
RIDE WANTED for two people to RuneQuest-Con from Princeton, New
Jersey Area. Leave Friday, return Sunday. Can help pay for gas and
tolls. Please contact Paul or Janet Anderson at (609) 497-0414
(except between December 24 and December 27, 1993) or Janet Anderson
at andersjc@howdy.princeton.edu (except between December 23, 1993 and
January 2, 1994).
Thank you.
Janet Anderson
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Emotion Spirits, Tekumel
Message-ID:
Date: 17 Dec 93 09:04:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2670
Just two short remarks:
Free INT 2 (out of print now) had an article with several emotion
spirits (in German language, as usual). I still have the text on disk,
though. Anyone interested?
Sandy: I am interested in RQ-Tekumel. Please post your material!
Now back to work on Free INT 7.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: pearse_w_r@bt-web.bt.co.uk (pearse_w_r)
Subject: Tekumel Mailing List / Sog Ruins
Message-ID: <9312171009.AA21908@Sun.COM>
Date: 17 Dec 93 10:09:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2671
Sandy P asked about the Tekumel mailing list, to post the RQ/Tekumel
rules (Yes, I want to see them too - as complete as possible, with
full spell descriptions if possible).
Something is wrong with most of the published addresses for this list.
I've sometimes got through.
1. Try using wings rather than boombox. Or...
2. The last mailing I had came from tekumail@wings.micro.umn.edu. I have
sometimes sent mail here, which has appeared in the digest.
However this digest is appearing only infrequently, and submissions seem to
vanish sent to it. Does anyone know what the problem is?
> A personal correspondent asked about Sog's Ruins...
Thanks for the info.
Roger Pearse
---------------------
From: mcheyney@ubilab.ubs.ch (Matthew Cheyney)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 16 Dec 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <9312171115.AA15899@ubilab.ubs.ch>
Date: 17 Dec 93 13:15:51 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2672
hi all. Browsing through the RQ daily, I saw an offer by Sandy Petersen
to (post/(mail to the RQ list)) his RQ/Tekumel coversion notes, if people
were sufficently interested. I, for one, would love to see this, as I am
contemplating runnign an RM/my magic system/Tekumel game, and would like
to see as much Tekumel info as possible. So, if anybody with the system
(Herr Peterson, maby) reads this, and has a handy copy, I would really appreciate
it if they would post it to rec.games.frp.misc, or email it to me.
Thag you very buch.
-Matt
mcheyney@dartmouth.edu
@coos.dartmouth.edu
@everest.cs.dartmouth.edu
@northstar.dartmouth.edu
and in my swiss secret identity,
@ubilab.ubs.ch
zhchm@zh014.ubs·ubs.ch
-Coming soon to a kill file near you.
---------------------
From: brandon@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov (Brandon Brylawski)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 17 Dec 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <9312171442.AA03386@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov>
Date: 17 Dec 93 14:42:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2673
Sandy Petersen writes:
>Brandon Brylawski says:
>>Umath represents uncontrollable, destructive Storm - Storm
>>before it learned Mastery (Remember, two of his sons are Valind and
>>Ragnaglar
>
>Not to mention Vadrus and Storm Bull, and other crude, brutish gods
>such as Humakt. Technically, Valind is not Umath's son, but his
>grandson (another grandson is Gagarth). Ragnaglar's relationships are
>unclear, but he is probably not one of Umath's sons (though he's
>almost certainly a descendant), which are traditionally five in
>number: Umbrol, Vadrus, Storm Bull, Humakt, and Orlanth. Of course,
>in Orlanthi kinspeak, just like in ancient Hebrew, "son of" can be
>used to mean "descendant of".
I bow to your knowledge in this instance. What happened to Kolat?
>Although Umath doesn't boast a cult, among the Orlanthi
>storm-oriented shamans (a common type) are usually considered Umath
>shamans. After all, they spend all their time with sylphs and other
>such raw air entities, Umbroli, etc. Some of the mightiest of these
>shamans claim to have met and talked to Umath, but they probably used
>something akin to Brandon's technique (an item from each of his sons
>-- note that the Vadrus item might be hard to come by).
When I did the herowalk to reach Umath, I couldn't find anything for Vadrus,
so I amassed the following, which worked:
Orlanth : myself (as an initiate) and a storm dagger of Orlanth which never
missed its target, teleporting through obstacles if necessary;
Humakt : a Death rune which could transform into a dagger, sword, or greatsword;
Kolat : a dagger which was a real weapon : on the Hero plane it appeared as a
fan.
I don't remember the Storm Bull item;
Gagarth : a thunderbolt arrow, left behind by the Wild Hunt.
Valind : the herowalk began at the foot of Valind's glacier!
Brandon
---------------------
From: ngl28@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de
Subject: "SOG AND HEROQUESTING
Message-ID: <5482*_S=ngl28_OU=rz_PRMD=uni-kiel_ADMD=d400_C=de_@MHS>
Date: 17 Dec 93 18:35:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2674
Tim Beecher in X-RQ-ID: 2655
>Needless to say , there was going to be one more wave of enemies than was
>expected . What would this have done to the heroquest ? I don't believe our
>group would have fit the description of any of the groups attacking (Humakt ,
>Wachaza(?), and some Orlanthi Types ) . What
>happens when something unrelated to the heroquest intrudes ?
Though I'm no Godtime expert, from what I have read about hqs to intrude
into a heroquest, you either have to participate with the quester, or
you'll participate as one of the mythical participants within the myth.
So, if the companions of this character wanted to give him a hard time,
best way to do so is set out with him and, at some point, force him to
leave the myth's path.
Or you might enter in the role of an originally passive participant, like
Flesh Man watching Humakt slay Grandfather Mortal. Now you can enter the
"what if" game: what if Flesh Man dissuaded Grandfather Mortal to accept
the new power? (Would the character participating as Grandfather Mortal
lose the ability to die? Would the Humakt participant lose some amount of
his death powers? Would the Eurmali lose his assassin aspects which stem
from this incident?)
In your case, the guys holding the ladder could start climbing it
themselves, making the first climber's life very hard, or they could assume
the role of some onlooker and then change the myth.
So, what happens if the lay members attending to a temple-walk heroquest
suddenly start throwing tomatoes at the performers? Or how to seriously
discredit a religious society with their deity, out of the Advanced
Trickster's manual.
---------------------
Lewis Jardine in X-RQ-ID: 2656
> The only creature who I have not thought of a reward for is the
>shadow cat (I would appreciate comments and ideas), but it just may be that
>that is one of the prices an alynx pays for becoming a familiar.
Well, had the cat actually done something to get rid off the tormentor, it
might have earned increased toughness of some form. Just making it away -
hmm, maybe some award for mobility?
> If the SB had won the reward would have been something like berserk
>at will once per day!
Such as the Vikings: Gods without Godar section? These abilities seem
appropriate for minor heroquest rewards, although the spirit combat ought
to be played out a bit more dramatic.
---------------------
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 2659
>A personal correspondent asked about Sog's Ruins (in Prax). Here goes
>a tiny bit of background stuff:
>Sog was a minor water deity, a grandson of King Undine. Sog is also
>parent of the three Father Undines who spanwed the nine Giant
>Undines. Really, he's no more than a really big undine, but the God
>Learners picked him out of the mass and used their techniques to make
>Sog into one of their most important sea gods. There are little
>peninsulas and places all along Genertela's southern coast named
>after Sog (I believe there's a Sog City in Kethaela). After the God
>Learners imploded, Sog sank back to his rightful position -- that of
>being just another name on the ocean pantheon's genealogy.
From what the Sea issue of TotRM said about Sog in "What the Merpriestess
says" I understood that Sog was a favorite deity of the Waertagi, hence its
use for all the dragon-cityship ports and drydocks. Did the God Learners
conquer this spirit after Tanien's victory? They did conquer the ports, for
sure.
But then in 945 or so, less than 8 years before the Closing, the Waertagi
released Sog (or his father Tidal Wave?) on Jrustela and sank most of it.
I'd expect Sog to be the Waertagi's favorite weapon against landlubbers,
and to see his hour again quite soon in Nolos and Pasos.
Which part of Kethaela had this Sog City? I recall that Nochet originated as
Waertagi port. Maybe they have a Sog quarter, close to the harbour?
Also Kethaela: Does anyone have a clue where I can find the human-
frequented temple of Black Arkat? I somehow thought it would be in the
Kitori lands, them being darkness worshipers, somewhere between Whitewall
and Jansholm.
>Not to mention Vadrus and Storm Bull, and other crude, brutish gods
>such as Humakt. Technically, Valind is not Umath's son, but his
>grandson (another grandson is Gagarth). Ragnaglar's relationships are
>unclear, but he is probably not one of Umath's sons (though he's
>almost certainly a descendant), which are traditionally five in
>number: Umbrol, Vadrus, Storm Bull, Humakt, and Orlanth. Of course,
>in Orlanthi kinspeak, just like in ancient Hebrew, "son of" can be
>used to mean "descendant of".
Also in some versions of Ragnaglar myths he is called cousin, not brother,
by Urox, Orlanth, and some sons of the Bull. Given Vadrus' bad reputation,
there is a likely candidate to have sired Ragnaglar. On whom, by the way?
>Some of the mightiest of these
>shamans claim to have met and talked to Umath, but they probably used
>something akin to Brandon's technique (an item from each of his sons
>-- note that the Vadrus item might be hard to come by).
Why? Just use the same technique recursively: one item form Gagarth, one
from Molanni, one from Gagarth - would be fun if Ragnaglar was included
among the offspring of Vadrus: his only son was the devil, who is dead,
too, but his sons or parts exist: Thanatar, Cacodemon, the Devil's Hand,
...
Which is probably why even the God Learners refrained from doing so.
Joerg Baumgartner
ngl28@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de
---------------------
From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Soggy Ragnaglar
Message-ID: <931217171753_100270.337_BHB38-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 17 Dec 93 17:17:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2675
____________
Sandy wrote:
> Ragnaglar's relationships are unclear, but he is probably not one
> of Umath's sons (though he's almost certainly a descendant), which
> are traditionally five in number: Umbrol, Vadrus, Storm Bull, Humakt,
> and Orlanth.
On the other hand, Ragnaglar is also described as Storm Bull's *brother*,
while considerable doubt exists as to whether Umbrol (or Kolat) are real
deities and not aggregate personifications (or *really big* elementals)
created for God Learner genealogies. It becomes very tempting to identify
Ragnaglar with Vadrus, the god of plunder and concommitant rape, who was
"destroyed by Chaos in the Great Darkness" -- which makes the latter into a
face-saving euphemism for the Orlanthi.
But: if Umbrol/Kolat (per WF12) and Humakt (per RQDs passim) weren't
originally Orlanth's brothers... who were the original five? This is
getting *very* tricky!
Sog's Cities: I had previously assumed that this connection was through the
Waertagi rather than the Jrusteli, given the immense age and undoubted
Waertagi connections of Sog City (the famous one) in Fronela. It seems
unlikely the Jrusteli would 'adopt' a friend and helper of the Waertagi,
their mortal foes; Sog's current debilitated state is equally well
explained if his worship came from the (missing, presumed extinct) Waertagi
rather than the (missing, presumed extinct) God Learners.
Besides, the Jrusteli never had ships so big that they *needed* controlled
tidal waves to carry them into drydock...
Yours, labouring for the common good,
^
====
Nick
====
---------------------
From: ngl28@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de
Subject: "CHAOS ON MY WORLD (WAY TOO LONG)
Message-ID: <5495*_S=ngl28_OU=rz_PRMD=uni-kiel_ADMD=d400_C=de_@MHS>
Date: 17 Dec 93 19:52:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2676
Carlson, Pam in X-RQ-ID: 2663
>I would be interested to hear of other interpretations of chaos used in
>non-Gloranthan worlds.
Well, on my campaign world (listen in, Mark, I didn't send you this stuff
yet) Chaos entered the world via a cosmic catastrophe.
Be warned, I digress a lot.
The world is a quite ordinary planet in the fantastically enlarged
biosphere of a no less fantastic solar system, which evolved along certain
natural laws, also called Runes. (That's why most intelligent life forms
tend to be humanoid, call it Man Rune, or call it parallel evolution.)
The planet exists on the mundane plane as well as on the spiritual planes -
Hero, God, and Spririt Planes. The Spirit Plane is the primary life-force
continuum, the God Plane was originally the plane of the powers (Runes),
and the Hero Planes were the discharge area between all of them. They are
somewhat extradimaensional, but tied in certain coordinates to the mundane
plane.
When life had evolved that was capable of spiritual activity, the various
forms of genius loci began to manifest themselves and form the Elder races.
so from darkness sprang the trolls, from half light the (Tolkienesque)
Elves, from plants the dryami (a compromise of Ents and Vronkali, Mreli and
Embyli), etc. Plus the dragons who had reached semi-intelligence, and fed
on flesh as well as life force. Nota bene: Only spirits and shamanism so
far, no gods, no embodied powers apart the draconic ones.
Life developed harmoniously on this planet and its neighbour, one orbit
further out, when a stellar body of unknown matter intruded into the system
and collided with the outer planet of the life zone. Both fragmented, and
parts of the fragments formed an asteroid belt on the neighbouring orbit,
other parts became a meteorite swarm which irregularly crosses the system.
The moment the two stars collided, the Great Ones (sorry, couldn't
translate it more originally) awoke, and began to conquer the world. Their
only real resistance were the primitive dragons, whom they conquered in the
end, as they did with the Elder Races. They, too, fed on life force as
well. Later philosophers said they were made from the essence of the runes,
when the two planets crashed and released their energies. The first thing
they saw was the collision of the planets (runic powers move faster than
light :-).
In Glorantha terms these beings were illuminated, they understood chaos
(the matter of the foreign planet) and law (the natural Laws aka Runes).
This gave them the edge over the other races which were only budding this
time. They also did everything unnatural to creation which is blamed on the
combined efforts of EWF and God Learners, such as modifying their draconic
slaves from dinosaurian life forms into six-legged (actually winged) riding
and combat beasts of mediocre intelligence - say about human.
The enslaved dragons succeeded to lay the foundation of the Great Ones by
having their immature but yet untainted youth lay disfunctional eggs, from
which hatched - you guess it - dragonewts. These went through their cycles,
until the first of them reached the state of true dragons.
Around this time, the Younger Races aka humanoids had eveloped and the
first waves of them - the giants, dwarf, and ogres - had made contact with
the great ones, or had cunningly avoided it. The (RQ2ish) dwarfs had been
made into machine-worshiping monsters like the Mostali, e.g., the giants
had avoided the Great Ones attention by sticking to the outskirts, and the
ogres had committed themselves to copy the Great Ones.
In one respect the Younger Races resembled the Great Ones - they were
immune to the effect that iron has on the Elder Races. To get servants with
this immunity against the anti-magic (anti-life force) effect of iron, the
Great Ones had experimented withtheir servant races, inducing well known
effects like the Trollkin Curse, the creation of regenerating Cave Trolls,
the abominational crossbreeding of Elves and Trolls into a race called for
lack of a better term "orcs", transmuting some elves (creatures of light,
if only half light aka Moon, remember) weakness against iron into a
weakness against light and creating the duergar from RQ Vikings. All this
magic has to do with the perversion of life force, chaos, and is the reason
why I called the Great Ones Illuminates. All this is very much along the
lines of chaos description Pam gave.
Then the Rebellion finally broke out. The slave races had secretly
developed deities and divine magic, while the Great Ones' attention was
focussed on the Hero Planes. The humans, last coming and most numarous of
the humanoid Younger races, migrated into the lands of origin of the Great
Ones, and although lots of them were simply added into the slave pool, they
overthrew the Great Ones' ecology. When they found leaders in the Elder
Races, the dragonewts, and those giants who had mastered elemental powers of
cold, fire, storm, earth or waves (I used the norse giant races, with Aesir
=Storm Giants, Jotuns=earth or mountain giants, etc), the Gods war broke
out, and the Great Ones, caught at unawares, suffered as greatly as they
delt out. It was the belated, but furious and berserking entry of the
giants and their followers which broke the Great Ones.
The Great Ones were expelled to the Hero Planes, and the Gods were shut out
of the world as well, but with similar powers like the Gloranthan Compromise
allows. As one last revenge, say some, while others say that this event had
to come anyway and that the dragonewts had planned to use this as their
final weapon, the fragments of the chaotic planet hit the world. Apart from
wiping out one of three continents with the impact, melting off all the
inland ice of this continent, apart from the seismic and climatic
catastrophes following, lots of splinters of manifest chaos rained down on
the world. Where they hit, they polluted, mutated, etc. - whatever you know
from pure chaos. Luckily, there came also fragments of the outer planet,
mostly from the metallic core, which could cancel out the worst chaos
effects.
For Gloranthans, think of Truestone (I call it Star Steel) and Anti-Truestone.
BTW, Star Steel was the only matter which could really harm the great Ones,
which is why they deflected earlyer showers of meteorites, after getting
enough for weaponry, and after discovering that by refining iron ore they
could achieve a similar, if weaker, effect which was more controllable:
Alloy Steel.
In this world, chaos is the all mutating or corrupting force, often draining
life force in the process, thus definable as evil, too. All things draining
life force are regarded as evil, and all things corrupting the natural laws
aka Runes (not strictly mundane physics etc) are regarded as chaotic.
Thus extra tentacles or other standard chaotic features are clearly
chaotic, naked chaos. Often they are hostile and rather often also destructive
to life force, thus they are evil.
Then there is the illuminated, or controlled chaos. Most magic is one of its
aspects, in fact all magic not voluntarily exchanging life force between
different planes. Spirit magic was before the chaos, and is NOT chaotic,
nor is the mastery of the primal powers per se. All other magic can be
argued to be chaotic or evil, but most of it canbe argued as natural, too -
with the exception of certain demonist and necromantic techniques.
The controlled chaos is the source of great powers. The dragons acquired it
from their masters, or stole it from them, and are as illuminated as were
the Great Ones. The Dragonewts are, too, and the draconic (Kralori or EWF
style) worshipers as well. Only the primitive draconic forms, some of which
survived the Great Ones' experiments and the Darkness following the God
Wars, do not possess these powers. They're quite harmless, really :-).
The necromantic practices use certain predator spirits which devour life
force and force them into deceased bodies with only stray sparks of life
force in them. there they feed on other stray life force from their
surroundings, weakening life and reality. This makes them chaotic
(anti-law), but of the masked/illuminated variety. (This is my
interpretaion of what Ghoul Spirits are, and a way to produce rotting
Zombies without enchanting permanent POW away).
Demonic techniques use the intrusion of raw chaos into the spirit world.
The corrupted entities which can be summoned through these routes are the
classical demons of Elric! or Stormbringer fame. There are regions in the
Spirit Plane so corrupted by raw chaos that (formerly) mortal spirits ore
beings can become chaotic beings. Naturally some perverse religions
developed around these techniques, and the ogres were the foremost to adopt
these.
The Broos are such a race of chaos demons released permanently on the
mundane world. There are spirit broos, too, as nice and friendly as their
material brethren. The ogres fetched or created them, it is said.
Hmm. Sorry, this is not how chaos functions, but how it works. I hope it is
of interest, though.
Joerg Baumgartner
ngl28@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de
---------------------
From: taz@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tarry Higgins)
Subject: Re: RQ-Tekumel
Message-ID:
Date: 17 Dec 93 19:20:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2677
In-Reply-To: <9312161957.AA16460@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
I personally would love to recieve it
Regards
Tarry A Higgins
taz@cix.compulink.co.uk
Compuserve ID; 71662,270