From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 13 Jan 1994, part 1
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
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From: allan@tcrystal.gla.ac.uk (Allan Henderson)
Subject: morokanth don't eat people
Message-ID: <25708.9401121222@sushi.tcrystal.glasgow.ac.uk>
Date: 12 Jan 94 12:22:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2790
Hi all,
I am afraid that I must disagree with Mr Peterson on the issue of
morokanth eating people, he says
> it's not "cannibalism" to eat a
> human if you're a morokanth -- a social faux pas at worst.
I believe that the Waha covenant will apply more stronly than breaking
it to be considered only a faux pas. In Borderlands there is a
description that morokanth put a herdman than may be a person out to
live on grass for a week if they thrive then they eat them, if they
don't then presumably they convert then to herd men and then eat them.
The important point is that they change them to herd men first.
The borderland write up of morocanth is very good.
The praxian nomads know about herd men, but although they know the
difference between herd men and humans it is still a good excuse to
raid another tribe. I doubt if any initiate or above in Waha would even
consider a herd man to be human, certainly no closer to human than an
ogre is.
Ogres, herd men, humans they all look the same but they come in three
distinct flavours (so to speak), only one of which is edible :
ogres being vile chaos creatures are not fit to eat
humans are forbidden to eat
herd men, god actively encourages the eating of these stupid creatures
> I find highly colorful nonhumans far more interesting than the
> usual D&Dish "humans in a furry suit".
I agree, but breaking the convenant of Waha, and eating people turns
morocanth into "monsters, but without the thumbs". Having them as an
alien tribe with morals and strict social structures allow them to be
feared through ignorance yet respected for their independant culture
by the PCs.
I can now agree with Sandy about you evil revisionist scum implying
that Arkat was a psycopathic killer. How dare you, he stood for
everything that seperates good, god fearing folk from the evil of chaos.
A man/troll with a big axe and murder on his mind is what makes
Glorantha safe for decent people. Kill all chaos worshipers, and people
who might be chaos worshipers, and people who live within 15Km of chaos
worshipers. rant rave rant rave etc.
The above message was brought to you by the Strom Bull for a Bright New
Tomorrow campaign.
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From: eosgg@raesp-farn.mod.uk (Geoff Gunner)
Subject: Cannabalism
Message-ID: <9401121914.AA08355@raesp-farn.mod.uk>
Date: 12 Jan 94 19:14:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2791
Geoff here after a long period of hibernation...
Doesn't the taboo against cannabalism stem from the ability to emote with what
you're eating ? With humans there's also the problems of disease transmission,
but between species this shouldn't be a problem.
SO the question boils down to: Does species 'A' have the cultural makeup to
empathise, and feel uncomfortable, about eating 'B' ?
Thus - Trolls will eat everything.
Dwarves eat ritual enemies 'Elves - not life as we know it'
Morocanth - I can see them in private eating other races, but as they
make a bigger effort to fit in than Trolls, public acts
of sentinent consumption are probably rare. But really they
don't give a damn. Just keeping up with the Jones's.
Yawn ... Back to sleep, I think. Wake me after the recession ...
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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Real world arrows, anti archery tactics and spirits in walls (again)
Message-ID:
Date: 12 Jan 94 19:27:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2792
Colin Watson in X-RQ-ID: 2774
>Subject: spirits bound into areas
>Robert McArthur wrote:
>>The GM said that when the stockade was created, spirits were bound
>>inside the walls to protect the place, check people going through the
>>gates, as well as those attempting to climb the walls stealthly at night
>>et al. Now, it seems to me that, if you have such spirits, you hardly need
>>many troops walking around protecting the place...
This seems extremely unlikely to me for a town the Lunars don't seem to
use in any way (I'd imagine Barbarian town to be a worse place to be
commisioned for a Lunar regular than Corflu or Refuge). Look at the Sun
County temple defenses for a great temple, and think how easy these
would be to overcome. Now imagine barbarian town: an earthen rampart,
probably with a hedge on top instead of a palisade, considering how
scarce wood is east of the Storm Mountains, and erected by Pol Joni
dimly remembering settled life. Way too much, really.
[regularly bound spirits ignored]
The alarm function is more easily obtained by a permanent market spell.
>>Can they engage in spirit combat with a spirit coming through the
wall?
>IMO a spirit bound to a mundane object/area no longer has
>perception in the spirit plane unless it can cast Second Sight or similar
>(but this view was debated a while ago...) so someone could discorporate
>and sneak past; however it's also debatable how much of the mundane plane
>is perceived by a discorporate shaman - to be useful you'd have to cast
>visibility in order to interact with the mundane world otherwise
>you'd have great difficulty telling where you were in relation to it.
That's right for regularly bound ghosts or magic spirits (the types I'd
use). There are, however, the wyters or community spirits which happen
to form around any group of people, e.g. Ginna Jar for the
Lightbringers. These may be a concoction of ancestors and other
friendly local spirits, plus the founding spirit as dirigent. KoS
describes how e.g. Jon Hauberk became guardian spirit of Jonstown, and
I'd bet that somewhere around Clearwine old chief Colymar would rush to
protect his offspring. For Runegate the (pointless) struggle of the
city's spirits against the Bat is recorded in KoS.
>Even if the bound spirit had some means of detecting a discorporate shaman
>(eg. it happened to have cast Second Sight within the last five mins) it
>couldn't engage in spirit combat unless it was released from its binding.
>(This could be a triggered condition of the binding I suppose).
Remember my suggestion for the Building Wall? A spirit voluntarily
interred into such a structure would do just this, e.g. a Humakti
volunteer for a Bind Ghost. The Sense Assassin skill would work against
really ill-wishing intruders.
>>Are spirits normally bound like this?
>A Warding spell would be a more "normal" way to protect a building; but
>there's nothing to stop them Lunars binding spirits if they like.
Except that there is a limit to the total mana available to them...
>>Can they detect enemies (and of whom)?
>The Detect Enemies spell clearly only senses enemies of the caster (who is the
>bound spirit in this case).
Which, if it is to protect the walls, makes any intruder an enemy.
David Dunham in X-RQ-ID: 2777
>Are real world arrows less effective than they are in the game? Are shields
>or armor more effective against arows?
[Also replying to Paul Reilly]
I have yet to find the roleplaying game that does not underrate missile
fire for sake of game balance or player heroism. Of course I tend to
think of the historical incidents where archery really made the
difference, such as the much cited battle of Agincourt or the Mongol
victory at Liegnitz, but from my real life experience with archery
(about as good as a scholar type staying mainly in town is likely to
become) archery accuracy and effectivity are much higher than the
percentages allow for.
We all know the cuirasses with the musket bullet dent to prove its
reliability. Now, while a musket bullet may have the higher velocity
when hitting the target compared to an arrow (I'm not too sure about
that), the armour piercing-tipped arrow has two advantages: a smaller
area of effect (the point only), and the greater mass. Excuse my basic
mechanics, but the missile's energy is W=1/2 m v^2, and its penetration
depends on the pressure this energy exerts on the material. A
cloth-yard arrow (37'' long, weighing easily more than 50 gramms) will
be more likely to penetrate a steel plate than a lead bullet of maybe
20g.
If we take Gloranthan metallurgy into account (bronze being the
standard metal), the best anti-archery armour I can think of would be
dinosaur- or rhino-hide.
I know that n the antique missiles usually were less effective in
battle. That had mainly tw reasons: neither the commanders' strategy
nor the archers technique were developed enough to make use the bows'
killing potential. The usual antique battle began with a hail of arrows
at maximum distance, then an advance line towards line. So much to
strategy in a set battle between mainly infantry. Sensible maneuvres
like Hannibal'y encrcling the Romans at Cannae were cunted as genius.
So was the ancient battle leader who provided far more than the usual
amount of ammunition for his archers and simply outshot his opponents
(if I remember correctly, this was one of the many Asia Minor Greeks
vs. Persians battles).
And yes, a row of hoplites hiding behind their shields were better
armoured against a hail of arrows than the French knights at Agincourt.
A shied held a foot off your body, and some sort of cuirass behind,
provided two separate layers of armour which the arrow had to pierce.
As long as the missiles came from the front. Where they didn't (such as
the Pictish raids against Roman legions), the hoplites were at the
missiles' mercy like anyone else.
The mounted archers of the Parthian knighthood were outfitted as well
as the Mongols WRT bows, if I've done my archery homework correctly.
All you doubters, check the alt.archery FAQs, or ask there.
For the european longbow I have solid archaeological evidence for the
yew longbow from as early as the fifth century AD, found in a danish
bog alongside with high quality damascened blades, and exhibited in the
Haithabu Vikings museum. Eristi-worshiping trolls are invited to ask in
sci.archaology to check...
I think the main reason that bows were not used as massed tools of
annihilation was (culturally caused) missing training. Most barbarian
nations counted personal combat as a virtue above missile combat, so
they just rushed into the enemy. The Romans used the pilum as
pre-charge missile to lower the enemies' shields. The Byzantines had
religious reasons to develop archery as main technique, but failed to
train their archers to precision shooting.
On the other hand, distinguished archers were well known as long as
battles were fought - Apollo's precision shot at Troy, Achilles'
recurved bow that no one could sppan by simply pressing the top end to
the ground, and his shot through twelve axe-handle holes, Wayland's
brother shot a triangle of eggs with one arrow, Einar Tambarskelve's
performance at the sea battle of Oeresund all predate a certain man in
tights and hs switzerland colleague. And in 1066, two competitors to
the English crown were killed by arrows.
Even if Paul's estimate is correct, that only 5% of all shots actually
hit their target, this proves the wrong tactics and training rather
than the overrating of bows in combat.
Lewis came up with the Moon Web as anti-missile magic. I liked it, but
I think the effect is not as great as preventing the opponent from
shooting would be. Especially if this is just a wall - archery is more
ballistic than most game designers seem to think. A four metre high
wall would offer little resistance to a 60 metre shot.
Another angle of view: The arrow is a weapon of Light. To counter it,
darkness would be the appropriate force, wouldn't it? The Moonglow is
quite appropriate, though, only the Redlands don't (to my knowledge)
have a temple of the Reaching Moon to ensure constant full moon to draw
upon. A spell distorting the vision enough to let the archer
miscalculate the distance would do a great job. (I wonder how much a
Farsee would reduce the archer's chance to hit?)
And since Nick pointed out that water was well in the Lunar domain of
elemental magic, *some* kinds of weather effects are possible against
Solar Pent nomads. Storm worshiping Pentians, however...
P.S.: I expect detailed reports from RQ Con, folks, pity I can't come.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
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From: fletcher@u.washington.edu (Brent Krupp)
Subject: Waaaahhhh!!! I can't go to RuneQuestCon...
Message-ID:
Date: 12 Jan 94 13:21:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2793
For poor pathetic students like myself who cannot possibly spare the time
or money to go to RQCon (I live in Seattle) (and also non-students whose
work or whatever intrudes) could some person or persons who do go to the
Con be sure to post some kind of update/summary/debriefing so we can find
out what we all missed.
It would be much appreciated.
P.S. I'd love it if any other Washingtonian (except Mr. Dunham with
whom I've chatted) reading this would email me...
Brent Krupp (fletcher@u.washington.edu)
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