From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 20 Jan 1994, part 2
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
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From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <9401191631.AA01183@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 19 Jan 94 04:31:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2834
WOW! Great Con, Dave! Congratulations. No doubt other Digest writers
will expend praise on RQ Con, so I'll stop with saying that Friday
night's CoC seminar was the best I've ever seen. It was packed with
people who had clever, incisive questions, and who were polite enough
to laugh at all my jokes.
Colin Watson sez:
>I thought the Lunar anti-storm stance was the result of circumstance
>(ie. the Orlanthi cause trouble for the Empire so the Lunars don't
>like Orlanth) rather than general inclination.
There's mythic reasons, too. Both sects vie for control of the Middle
Air. Also, the Red Goddess specially chose Orlanth to be her enemy,
of all the gods. In addition, the fact that most Lunar citizens are
from an anti-Storm society probably exerts influence. Don't forget
the Icebreaker cult -- the most overtly anti-Storm act they do.0
>Wouldn't Lunars exploit storm magic like any other type of magic if
>they got the chance?
No doubt. But they don't really have the opportunity. The only
acceptable "storm" god is Molanni the traitress. The Lunar elemental
gods (the Young Elementals) conspicuous lack any Air/Storm aspect.
anti-archery spell:
How about a ranged Ignite on the bowstrings? It would put the kibosh
on firing any arrows. Even if the fire was put out right away, the
string would be weakened and probably snap.
BOWSLOW. This spell's name must be altered to SLOWDART. In my
opinion.
Dave Dunham asks:
>Are real world arrows less effective than they are in the game? Are
>shields or armor more effective against arrows?
Shields are extraordinarily good vs. arrows. Even the samurai of
Japan used shields against archers (only). In addition, I suspect
massed arrow fire as you gallop by is less than accurate. One known
defense against horse archers is to break up your formation -- the
mass-target that they were aiming at is now no longer present and
most of the arrows miss.
The players in my own campaign soon learned to hold their shields in
front of their vitals as extra armor whenever archers opposed them.
The question is: what defeats horse archers? Historically, I believe
the answer is fortifications and light or medium cavalry.
Allan Henderson disagrees w/me re: Morokanth:
>I believe that the Waha covenant will apply more stronly than
>breaking it to be considered only a faux pas. In Borderlands there
>is a description that morokanth put a herdman than may be a person
>out to live on grass for a week if they thrive then they eat them,
>if they don't then presumably they convert then to herd men and then
>eat them. The important point is that they change them to herd men
>first. The borderland write up of morocanth is very good.
You have misread the point of the Borderlands test. It is NOT
undergone to find out if a person is edible or not! The text clearly
explains that the morokanth do this in order to detect spies posing
as herd-men. If you wanted to make sure the morokanth knew that you
were a real human, all you'd have to do is talk. Remember, the
morokanth slave-herds are so slow-breeding that they can rarely
actually eat their herds, so pretending to be a herd-man is a pretty
safe way to conceal yourself amongst them (Morokanth speak Praxian,
so you don't need to learn a new language). There is no statement in
Borderlands that they "change them to herd men first". Turning
captured spies into herd-men is a fine case of making the punishment
fit the crime. "You posed as a herd-man. Fine, you can BE a
herd-man!"
Humans may also try to pretend to be herd-men when otherwise
captured by the morokanth -- this way you're put in the pen with the
herd, and presumably have a better chance of escaping than if the
morokanth realize you're fully intelligent (in which case they take
you as a normal slave, probably with a slave collar and all).
> I doubt if any initiate or above in Waha would even consider a herd
>man to be human, certainly no closer to human than an ogre is.
Technically true, but they won't eat ogres. While herd-men aren't
considered human by Waha's covenant, I think that eating them is
rather distasteful to most Praxians, just as eating the "human parts"
of a walktapus is distasteful to even decadent Lunars. No doubt
certain Storm Bulls or other individuals are happy to eat herd men,
but the majority of Praxians are no more likely to eat a herd man
than most American males would eat calf fries (testicles).
Mind you, I'm not claiming that morokanth are outright man-eaters.
For one thing, it's economically stupid to eat real humans, when
they're so useful as slaves. And I bet that there are plenty of
morokanth who regard it as a social faux pas to eat humans. I
wouldn't be surprised if, for instance, Eiritha priestesses and maybe
Waha khans were forbidden to ever eat real people (taboo). I'm just
trying to point out that, IMO, the morokanth would have a rather
cavalier attitude towards eating people. And I don't think my
conception of morokanth thus boils down to "monsters without thumbs".
Certainly the fact that trolls, ogres, and dragonewts eat people
unifies these creatures as "monsters with thumbs". Trolls manage to
have a highly complex society, and so can morokanth. In addition, the
morokanth pose the fearful threat that they can actually make you
not-human, turning you into a beast.
By the way, I don't think morokanth would eat elves, dwarfs, or
trolls -- just humans.
CANNIBALISM IN GLORANTHA
Here's my guess at a summary (using as many intelligent species as
possible):
Humans: rare, except Cannibal Cult and bad guys. It's clearly
considered morally reprehensible for humans to eat humans, and my big
book on the subject of anthropophagy points out that societies which
permit it eventually degenerate (at first, they may only eat their
own dead, or the hearts of honored enemies or something defensible,
but ultimately they end up just plain cannibals).
Trolls: it's obviously an integral part of troll psyche, culture, and
society. But it doesn't earn them any friends. It's so widely-known
that I suspect most people think of it as just a quirk of troll
nature, and it doesn't earn the repugnance that a human eating a
trollkin (say) would generate.
Dwarfs & Elves: true, these guys eat one another (and trolls, too),
but only at special ceremonies or else when it is unbeknownst to them
(dwarf canned food). I wouldn't call them cannibals despite this
obscure secret ritual.
Morokanth: my opinions here are widely-known on the Digest.
Broos: they might eat people, but I suspect they do this only in
order to increase the pain and fear felt by their captive. They have
other uses for prisoners, if they take 'em.
Ogres & Giants: both like the taste of people.
Scorpion Men: eat people primarily to gain magic power, not for food.
Beast-men: I suspect only manticores and perhaps wild minotaurs eat
other sentients on a regular basis. I don't see centaurs or satyrs
doing it.
Ducks: obvious non-human eaters
Slarges: They might eat people, but most of them don't think of
humans as sentient -- more the way people think of rabbits or wolves.
Just something to be brushed out of the way as the slarges expand.
Joerg Baumgartner sez:
>The alarm function is more easily obtained by a permanent market
>spell.
A market spell is a bad way to alarm your walls. For one thing, it
takes a LOT of Create Market spells to cover an entire town. In
addition, if any of your soldiers draw their swords (or bows) to
attack an incoming foe, they're toast (attacked by the spell, just
like an enemy).
David Gibbs asks:
>does any "miscegenation" occur between the different types
>of trolls? For instance, what would the off-spring of an Uzuz
>father and an Uzko mother be -- guaranteed Uzko, or is there a
>chance of an Uzuz child? Would this reduce or eliminate the
>chance of Enlo children? What of vice-versa, Uzuz mother,
>Uzko father? I feel that this is far less likely to happen,
Uzuz mother and uzko father I think is as likely as the other way
round. Uzuz are too rare to mate together very frequently, and the
females are the rulers, not the males, so they'd get to pick their
own mates, and may well take in a promising Karrg's Son or Death Lord
for a night's reward.
My own feelings are that uzuz mothers generally give birth to uzko
children, regardless of the father, and uzko mothers w/uzuz fathers
generally give birth to uzko children, too, or at worst a litter of
superior trollkin. Uzuz births are catastrophically rare, only occur
to uzuz mothers (except for Heroquest rituals?) and Divination
generally reveals that there's going to be an uzuz a-coming months
before it's arrival. I expect that numerous Xiola Umbar priestesses
gather for the (difficult) birthing, and approve of the suggested
scenario a week or two ago in which the PCs could encounter a trashed
batch of powerful trolls in the last throes of defending an uzuz
birth from a heroquest influx of chaos.
re: Gonn Orta killing the Crimson Bat
The risk here is that he can't sneak up on the bat (after all, he's
500' tall). Hence, a batch of Lunar priests casting Mindblast or
similar bad spells might be able to incapacitate him before he could
get within a km of the bat. It would be an interesting scenario to
try to get him to the bat to kill it.
Dave Dunham (forgetting RQ rules) sez:
>I'm strongly leaning towards giving some shield value if the shield
>owner does nothing but hold it up and try to block arrows.
The rules state that you can hold a shield over part of your body and
it acts as full add'tl armor for those portions. Bucklers defend the
left arm only. Targets defend left arm and one other hit location.
Kites defend left arm and two other adjacent hit location (in my
campaign, usually chest and abdomen, or sometimes both legs). The
extra 12-16 points for the shield renders arrows much less effective,
which is in fact borne out by ancient battle reports.
Nils Weinander asks:
1. Golden Mokato is specified as the centre of the second age
Eastern Sea Empire which 'ruled half the seas', but according
to various accounts of the world history the God Learners
ruled the seas and coastal areas. In the east they even
overthrew the Dragon Emperor of Kralorela for a while. I
can't figure a good compromise for this. Suggestions?
Mokato ruled all of the East Isles during the Second Age, and was
able to defeat the God Learners in several campaigns fought in an
attempt to invade the East Isles. The God Learners did conquer
Kralorela, but were never able to overwhelm Mokato. Mokato's ships
controlled the East Isles and were common in the central seas,
fighting the Teleos pirates, trading with the Errinoru Elf Empire,
and even dealing with the False Dragon Empire to the north. Perhaps
"ruling" half the seas is a bit of an exaggeration, but they
certainly controlled more of the ocean than any naval empire besides
the God Learners. Perhaps because they were less villainous than any
other of the Second Age Empires, the catastrophes of the age's end
did not wipe out Mokato, but only destroyed its empire, leaving
Mokato intact, but without imperial ambitions.
Note by the way that the God Learners were by no means an organized
empire. The Seshnegi, Jrusteli, False Dragon Empire, and Six-Legged
Empire were all separate national entities, though all were ruled by
God-Learners.
2. Does anyone have any information/ideas on Vormainian colour
magic? Some of the Vormain gods are mentioned in the Proso-
paedia in GoG, but what the colour magic is about is not
explained.
I have written up descriptions of the various color magics.
Basically, they are a new type of magic, different from sorcery,
divine, and spirit. My information is (of course) all tucked away in
storage.
3. I didn't plan on using the island of Teleos, but I'm curious
about the almost total lack of information. Is it a blank
land?
No. It has a long and colorful history. Alas, it hasn't been
published. In the Second Age, it was the Pirate Island, which boasted
a Pirate King, and did many terrible deeds, preying on the shipping
of almost all nations, including the God Learners.
The Closing naturally devastated the Pirates, and when the
seas were opened again, Teleos had no more pirates. Instead, there
are a number of different color-coded peoples living here (I can't
recall whether there are five, or seven) ranging in skin tone from
green, orange, purple, yellow, etc. Each lives in a different section
of the island, and each hates all the other "tribes". Unfortunately
for their antisocial desires, children are rarely the color of their
parents. Thus, a Green may give birth to a Blue, Orange, Purple, etc.
Off-colored children (the norm) are transported to their "proper"
tribe for raising, and such exchanges are made regularly. All the
tribes have certain stereotypic beliefs about the other tribes, and
these are shared. For instance, all the non-Green tribes claim that
the Greens eat live frogs.
So far, the inhabitants of Teleos, while willing to trade,
have been too distracted by their internal disharmony to reopen their
ancient pirate activities.
Andrew Bean sez:
>I would like to reinforce in primitive socities staying at a
>distance and peppering your opponents with bow fire is the work of
>cowards or elves.
Not so. Read THE HISTORY OF WARFARE by John Keegan. Mounted nomad
societies normally engaged in such archery to as great an extent as
they possibly could. The hand-to-hand risk-yourself style of warfare,
a.k.a. as the Western Way of War (a book titled this is also good) is
rare, and was apparently invented by the ancient Greeks, a civilized
people. It was independently invented at least three other times --
once by the Japanese, once by the Maoris of New Zealand (who used it
to battle the invading British to a standstill), and again by the
ancient Easter Islanders (who wiped out their entire society with
it).
Anyway, the point is that standing up and fighting "like a man" is
not a primitive hold-over, but an invention which is apparently none
too easy to figure out. The ancient Persians, Chinese, and nomad
peoples didn't create it. Note that Keegan points out that other
styles of warfare, like the nomad "shoot 'em and run away" can be
effective against the Western style.
W. R. Pearse requests:
>MAG is presumably Pedhetl. But what is it used for? Everything
>seems to use 'Magic Bonus'. I'm deeply confused about how the magic
>system works.
MAG = Pedhetl.In fact, I should have called it Pedhetl, and will do
so from now on. It acts as RQ's Free INT. You cannot manipulate a
spell for more points than your Pedhetl. Thus, if you have a Pedhetl
of 6, you can cast a spell with Intensity 3, Duration 2, and Range 1.
Or with Intensity 6 and naught else, or with Intensity 2 and
Multispell 4, etc. so long as the totals add up to no more than 6.
>Is sorcery the only type of magic in RQ/Tekmel?
No. There are shamans, witches, and stuff out in the villages who
have access to other magic, but I haven't bothered to figure them
out. Probably I'd give them normal shamanic RQ magic, except that
Barker himself doesn't seem to have much of an idea how an actual
shaman works, so maybe a spirit-plane oriented guy is alien to
Tekumel.
>Magic Bonus - how can this be less than zero? (Character Generation
>section 2).
Easy. Have a crappy INT, POW, and DEX.
>Character Generation section 4 - what is the sorcery stat? And what
>is the INT+POW-20?
The sorcery stat is a misprint I missed. It is Pedhetl, yet again.
And INT+POW - 20 is the MAXIMUM that your Pedhetl can reach. Thus, if
your INT is 18 and your POW is 21, you can someday achieve a Pedhetl
of 19, assuming your starting Pedhetl (3d6-15) was positive.
>Something is missing from the paragraph about speciality weapons
>like the 'Whispering Death'.
Sorry.
>What starting spells do you have? Do you memorise chosen spells,
>and if so is it INT related as in RQIII?
You have whatever starting spells you want, assuming your POW's high
enough. You do not memorize spells, nor do they subtract from your
INT. Instead, you learn a spell by sacrificing a point of POW, which
gives you the spell at a basic percentage. Then you must train,
research, or get experience in that spell to get it to a skill level
where you can cast it with a reasonable chance of success.
Joerg Baumgartner wonders:
>Do we know anything about the Galanini from Ralios except the few
>tidbits in "Dorastor Land of Doom", Elder Secrets and King of
>Sartar, and their god Ehilm? And what does a fire god have to do
with Hsunchen worship of horses?
Horses are the Beast of Fire. The Galanini date from the First Age,
before the God Learners had carefully explicated that the Hsunchen
were an early pre-pantheonic stage of development. Unaware that they
were supposed to only worship their own horse god, as a primitive
Hsunchen, the Galanini ignorantly worshiped related Sky gods as well.
>Did anyone else stumble about the phrase that Orlanth bathed in the
>Flame or Fire of Ehilm when proving his sincerity before Yelm in the
>Lightbringers Quest?
Ehilm, Worlath, and Humct are the old Ralios names for Yelm, Orlanth,
and Humakt. When the God Learners spread Theyalan civilization world
wide, the Theyalan names for these gods became the standards. Hence
Orlanth is named Orlanth practically everywhere that he is worshiped,
no matter what the native speaker's tongue.
However, superstitious types in Ralios, confused by the names, still
worship Ehilm & co., usually by bizarre ceremonies and false dogmas.
True worshipers of Yelm think of Ehilm followers much the same way as
the ancient Jews thought of the Samaritans, who followed the same
faith as the Jews, but did not accept the Prophets, just the Law, and
had weird primitive addenda to the Jewish way of life.
The reference to the Fire of Ehilm in Hell is the scribe's
unwillingness to alter the name of this ancient event. He recognizes
Yelm as the true sun god, but the oldest texts call Orlanth's purge
the Fire of Ehilm so, by gum, so will he.
---------------------
From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk
Subject: Invisible Orlanth, Yara Aranis, bonus (?) ramblings.
Message-ID: <9401191022.AA03141@carcass.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 19 Jan 94 10:22:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2828
> In the cult of Invisible Orlanth is Orlanth a prophet of the Invisible God
> or an (invisible) representative of the Red Goddess or merely the breath
> of the Invisible God? Or what?
I don't think IO is a Lunar/Healed cult at all: I reckon it's entirely
a Carmanian Thing.
Now, I did ask Greg about this at Conjunction, and he said, if I recall
correctly, and don't excessively paraphrase: What's this about Invisible
Orlanth, then? "Sounded good, so I put it in there. Right. But what are
these guys _on_? "They believe that Orlanth _is_ the Invisible God."
If anyone asked what the Lunar authorities thought of this, I forget the
answer entirely. I forget how sober any of us were...
One thing I've been wondering about is whether this is a unique mode of
worship, or if it has contempories and/or predecessors. For example, any
bets on whether 1st/2nd age Carmania had Yelm/IG worship combined in this
way? Specious analogies with Invictus Sol/Christ, anyone?
Actually, that reminds me of a piece of Lunar fiction I started to write
a while back: in regards which, does anyone have any datapoints on any of:
At least one city of the DH tripolis, or at a pinch, some other solar city
in Peloria which has been lunarised.
The White Moon cult. ("But what are these guys _on_?")
Lunar cult of justice. (No jokes from you unwashed barbarians, please.)
Pelorian solar military cults. (i.e., not Elmal/Yelmalio.)
The Dayzatar cult. Any subcults, particularly of a monastic bent.
My alibi for when Nick Brooke is found beaten up at Convulsion after that
Glasgow/Barbarians/Mr. Happy crack. It's true though, there are Primitive
sun-worshipping cults in these parts: their crude ceremonies focus on
totemic objects such as the UV SunBed, and the Cheap Package Holiday to
Lanzarote Tickets.
Other stuff I forget for the moment.
Even if no-one has any hard info, I'd be interested to hear what the state
of knowledge is: if I find out there's no data _whatsoever_ on something,
at least that means I can't be Gregged before I start. ;-)
Oh yeah, Yara Aranis. Well, if `Terrify Horse' is indeed a YA spell, this
makes it pretty dead-cert that this person's schtick is Darkness. After
all, `Fear', and `anti-Horse' both have this connotation, in RQ terms.
Though to be picky this could be a) Black/dying moon darkness;
Young Elemental darkness, or c) Darkness darkness. Don't laugh, there are
prolly different words for each of these in Dara Happan, lord preserve us.
But if YA arises from a _pre-lunar_ Pentan foe diety, c) seems the most
likely. In any case, contrive other spells and manifestations accordingly.
I humbly suggest.
Cheers,
Alex.
---------------------
From: bauge@nucdec.chem.sunysb.edu (Eric Bauge)
Subject: RQ-Con
Message-ID: <9401191423.AA02446@nucdec.chem.sunysb.edu>
Date: 19 Jan 94 04:23:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2829
I am back from RQ-Con, and it was really great! David Cheng did a great job.
The organisation was very professional and we should all thank David for all
the work and energy he has poured into this event.
I think the best thing about this Con was meeting and playing with 150
outstanding role-players: the quality of a con is tightly tied of the quality
of the people who attend, and at RQ-con I met nothing but great people.
My personal highlight was "Bones of a nation": two GMs and a very
"live action role playing"-like flavour, lots of role playing. The 2 GMs *AND*
the other 6 players were very good role players. I enjoyed this event a lot.
An other favorite was "Fear and loathing at the SuperTroll": I had tons of
fun; the GM and the other players were a riot.
The "Greg Stafford on Heroquesting" and "cultural exchange with Nick Brooke"
were both quite illuminating.
Thanks again to David Cheng for bringing all these great people in one place.
Eric
---------------------
From: pearse_w_r@bt-web.bt.co.uk (pearse_w_r)
Subject: RQ/Tekumel Thanks
Message-ID: <9401191426.AA21317@Sun.COM>
Date: 19 Jan 94 14:25:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2830
Loren Miller kindly answered my questions about RQ/Tekumel. Thanks -
I'll have another go and see how I get on.
I'd like to hear 'war stories' about the RQ/Tekumel campaign run by Sandy
Petersen...
Thanks again
Roger Pearse